In search of a new sci-fi show, we started watching Sanctuary

[sholio]

I know there are a number of people on my flist who really like this show, so please take my opinion with, you know, all suitable disclaimers (IMHO, to each their own, and so forth), but as of Sanctuary 1x03, I'm finding it hilariously awful.

The budget is apparently, like, nothing, which really isn't the show's fault, but does lead to lots of gigglefit-inducing moments like Ashley chasing Druitt in a warehouse full of guns with one l'il pistol, or the mooks in the Morrigan episode that looked like bad Halloween costumes and totally had that whole not-at-all-menacing B-movie lurking thing going. (Note to the Cabal: You may be an Ancient Organization of Evil (TM), but ... it's 2008! Battle technology has advanced beyond slow-moving unarmed creatures with no fighting skills! I'M JUST SAYING.)

More annoyingly, the characters are idiots, and the science!fail and shoddy research is on the level of a bad fanfic, such as Will saying that the bubonic plague was last seen in Scotland in 800 AD. (... so the Black Death never made it to Scotland, I guess? FOR GOD'S SAKE LEARN TO USE GOOGLE, WRITERS.) The dialogue often has that cringe-inducing "bad Renfaire" sound as in the worst Stargate episodes, and omfg, if Will was any denser, the man would spontaneously collapse into a black hole. And what is up with Ashley, supposedly their badass fighter, getting taken hostage and having people get the drop on her and just generally lacking the common sense of a mushroom ...?

It's not enough to just tell me that characters are smart and competent! You have to actually SHOW them being smart and competent too! As it is, they basically win their fights because the bad guys and monsters just stand there and let themselves be attacked, a la Old Skool Doctor Who.

Despite, or perhaps because of the general silliness of it, I'm finding it very entertaining anyway. The more overblown and melodramatic the characters get, the less seriously I can take them, and I do enjoy the silly B-movie moments (at times, it's hard to tell if the writers are doing it as a deliberate nod to old monster movies, or if this really is, god help them, the best they can do). And every once in a while there'll be something that genuinely is funny or clever. I can't help liking Henry, and I want to like Amanda's character because, well, it's Amanda (although ... the accent ... *cries*). But mostly, I go back and forth between being entertained by its mockability and annoyed by its implausibility, I suppose.

So ... does the show actually get better later on? Or do you just have to be willing to accept it for the cute-but-very-silly thing that it is? XD

This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/302145.html with comments.

Comments

[penknife.livejournal.com]

I liked the premiere, so my opinion may not be helpful, but "Fata Morgana" is a silly episode. "Folding Man" is okay; "Kush" is better; "Nubbins" is pretty awful.

Try skipping forward to "The Five," maybe? If that doesn't do it for you, this just may not be your show. (The special effects do get marginally better, but you'll continue to need an ability to pretend that silly special effects don't look silly. Or to take them as enjoyably cheesy.)

[sholio]

I'm not normally a watching-things-out-of-order kind of person, but "Fata Morgana" was definitely where my enjoyment of the show went from "silly but fun" to "omfg, my disbelief just came completely unsuspended" ... so, yeah, maybe I'll try that, because some things need it. I do actually have a pretty high tolerance for cheese in general -- I really like a lot of cheesy stuff (I read old Marvel comics, I cannot lie!) but I guess I'd gone into this one expecting it to be, well, a lot better than it actually is. Possibly lowered expectations would help a lot here. *g*

[jimandblair.livejournal.com]

I think that you’ve summed it up to a ‘T’: B-movie craptasticness.

I’ve enjoyed episodes but I do find it quite hard to suspend disbelief when I watch it, between the ropey special effects, storylines et cetera It’s a series where I want more substance. It’s a lemon tart and when I want filet mignon. But you’re right there’s hardly any series out there which are emotionally and intellectually satisfying. Hence the reason for fanfic.

That being said, any episode which has Tesla in, is worth watching, as Jonathon Young (Parrish in SGA) enjoys himself thoroughly when he pops up and acts his little socks of in gleeful abandon.

I really really quite dislike the term ‘abnormal’ and all that it implies, as if the abnormals are some sort of second class race that needs looking after by the superior Sam Carter Helen Magnus (which in itself is a superior term). By the definition of abnormal in the Sanctuary!verse, Magnus is an abnormal as is the Daniel Jackson look-a-like Will, but since they appear to be most Homo sapien cue a lack of angst on their part, while Henry Foss gets to angst (but I can’t say anymore for spoilers).

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I really really quite dislike the term ‘abnormal’ and all that it implies, as if the abnormals are some sort of second class race that needs looking after by the superior Sam Carter Helen Magnus (which in itself is a superior term). By the definition of abnormal in the Sanctuary!verse, Magnus is an abnormal as is the Daniel Jackson look-a-like Will, but since they appear to be most Homo sapien cue a lack of angst on their part, while Henry Foss gets to angst (but I can’t say anymore for spoilers).

*blinks* I agree I wish they'd chosen a term besides "abnormal", which I just handwave by saying the term was chosen back in the Victorian age by Helen's father and not changed with the times. But I'm pretty sure Magnus totally admits she is an abnormal, and I'm also pretty sure Will is not an abnormal (sometimes tedious character, yes, but not abnormal by the show's definition). At least, I've watched every episode they've aired and, except for that one really bad S1 episode, he's never been indicated as anything but "normal." I also never felt like "abnormal" was considered a bad thing in the universe - I mean, look how many Sanctuary heads are abnormals themselves?

[mirabile-dictu.livejournal.com]

Tesla is Parrish! Holy cats, I had no idea! Wow, talk about two different characters. *boggles* That guy's good.

[sholio]

Yeah, I think a lot of the problem is that so much of my flist seems to like it that I went in expecting it to be a lot better, and what I got instead was sort of a cross between season one Torchwood and Godzilla in terms of quality. On the other hand, I've been disappointed in a lot of what I've watched lately (I think I need to adjust my standards downwards, I guess).

I really really quite dislike the term ‘abnormal’ and all that it implies, as if the abnormals are some sort of second class race that needs looking after by the superior Sam Carter Helen Magnus (which in itself is a superior term).

Yeah, I definitely had that problem, too -- not so much with the term itself (though I can definitely see what you're saying) as with Helen's whole "I will come in and save you from yourselves by locking you up and studying you!" thing. It reminded me a lot, actually, of the Fablehaven books -- someday I need to make a post about those books, and the many MANY problems I had with them -- except that Fablehaven was far more blatantly skeevy and less subtextual about the main characters' patronizing attitude towards the magical world. Helen ... I think that (fanwanking like mad here *g*) her approach makes a great deal of sense for someone who was born in the Victorian era and grew up in that world, with that mindset, and the way the show handles it is ... less disturbing than it could be, I guess? Granted, I'm only three episodes in and it may get worse, but the Jekyll/Hyde guy being in the elevator indicates to me that all but the actual "worst of the worst" can voluntarily enter and leave their cells, which was the biggest problem I had with the general setup in the beginning (and with Fablehaven, overall, which is a similar kind of setup except that they actually are prisoners).

I'm not really trying to excuse the show, so much as I can kind of see how the "Sanctuary" might have developed along these lines, since I assume Helen is the one who built it -- which doesn't make it totally problem-free, of course, but ... it would be interesting to see those issues of terminology and agency and so forth dealt with on the show (though I'm assuming, since you're saying this, that they never will be ...).

as is the Daniel Jackson look-a-like Will

Ahahaha, I'm glad we're not the only ones who saw that! He's SO much like a young Michael Shanks from some angles, it's uncanny.

[amenirdis.livejournal.com]

I guess the bad special effects don't bother me. I mean, I like stage plays where of course it doesn't actually look like a cruise ship or the middle of a moor or Paris. It doesn't have to. It's just a sketch to make my imagination work, even though what I'm looking at isn't a realistic set of a moor but just some boulders on stage with a smoke machine. I'm there for the acting and the story, and really the special effects are just window dressing.

[sholio]

Yeah, I'm generally okay with bad special effects, though I find them good for a laugh or two. I think in the case of this show -- and I've only got the first couple episodes to go off of here, so you know, grain of salt and all of that -- the f/x are just the final insult on top of bad writing and bad plotting and all the rest of it. I just went into it with pretty high expectations because so much of my flist seemed to like it, and, like I said in one of the comments above, what it turned out to be is more like a cross between season one Torchwood and a Godzilla movie. I can enjoy it for what it is, up to a point, but I kind of thought that it was going to be something different.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

I like stage plays where of course it doesn't actually look like a cruise ship or the middle of a moor or Paris.

Oh, hey, that's an interesting way of looking at it. I don't have an issue with stage productions either, where standing on a tall box equals standing on a cliff, but I've never tried translating that to film/television. After 15 years of Star Trek and Stargate, I'm spoiled enough to expect props to look believable.

But Sholio keeps comparing Sanctuary to Torchwood, which a friend tried to show me and which made me cringe a lot, so I dunno.

[leesa_perrie]

I gave up on Sanctuary pretty early on - not sure when, but within the first few eps. I found Will rather annoying and struggled with the whole concept. It falls into a genre of sci-fi that I'm not really keen on. I think it was the creatures they came up against, and I hear there's a werewolf as well, and I'm just not comfortable watching things with vampires or werewolves in, no matter how family friendly or crazy daft! Not sure I can explain why, it's just the way I seem to be!!

[sholio]

See, I do like that sort of thing in general -- I'm fond of stuff all across the sci-fi/fantasy spectrum (though admittedly vampire fiction is a hard sell for me ... and yet some of my favorite fictional characters are vampires, so go figure *g*). So I don't really have that problem with it. But in general, it may not turn out to be my thing; I'll give some of the later episodes a go, and see if it does pick up a bit!

[aelfgyfu_mead]

Hahahahaha yes!

I'm so glad you wrote this! I'm afraid I don't find it entertaining. I don't begrudge anyone the enjoyment (and indeed wish I shared), but the Morgan episode was about the last straw for me. I gave it a couple more tries at random times (okay, the Michael Shanks episode was not "random"), but I couldn't enjoy it. I cannot stand Will.

It's not enough to just tell me that characters are smart and competent! You have to actually SHOW them being smart and competent too!
Yes!

[sholio]

Yeah, Will is ... irritating. So is Ashley. I kinda like the rest, though unfortunately the rest consists of only two characters, one of which doesn't seem to be in it much.

I'm happy for people who like it! I'm going to give some later episodes a try and see if it picks up; it's all streaming on Netflix, so I have the whole darn thing at my fingertips anyway. I want to like it, because I really want a new scifi/fantasy show to enjoy, but so far it really is not doing it for me.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Stay patient. The first season is pretty rocky, mostly because they got picked up at the last minute so pretty much had about 2 weeks to write, film, edit, and polish each episode. I find the goofiness of S1 charming, if ridiculous, but when it starts coming into its own it gets *good* (and, oh man, season 3 so far has been GOOD).

I promise later the characters get increasingly smart and competent. I'd say try to make it through season one (only 13 episodes - some of which are very good (I'd say "The Five" and "Requiem" (OMG AMANDA IS AWESOME) are the best, along with the season finale) and some of which are important info bits for later.

As for Amanda's accent, it kinda drives me crazy when people complain about that, so I'm going to give you my standard response. Amanda can do an authentic British Accent. She purposely makes Helen's accent off because she's accounting for the 100+ years Helen spent traveling the world and living in places other than Britain, and how that would affect her accent.

Pretty much, the genuinely funny and clever gets more common, Henry becomes a main character (OMG HENRY!), and you will, I think, grow to like Helen a lot. It just, well, most shows are pretty rocky the first few episodes. You do have to allow for the effects to be cheesy sometimes, though those get better also.

Also...I think Damian Kindler, judging by his Stargate episodes, and Sanctuary, is one of those writers who is very good at big interesting ideas, but less good on the follow-through and the little details. A number of S1 and S2 episodes left me thinking "I really liked a lot of that, but I feel like one more run around the editing room would have elevated it from "I really enjoyed that" to "that was a really well-told story"" So...yeah. S3, though? Damn.

Um. I rambled a lot. Does that help?

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

[Um, yeah, What I was trying to say in my just-awake ramble was that you haven't really seen any of the good episodes yet. I think the premiere is the strongest one you've seen, and pilots are rarely very good. I think if you can make it to the end of the season, and you haven't enjoyed it and the characters aren't drawing you at all, and you aren't intrigued by parts of it, then it isn't for you. But the characters get smarter, the facts get less implausible (though I still have moments, but the science isn't any worse than gateverse science) and the stories get tighter.]

So if you're finding it entertaining now, it shouldn't be too hard to give it a bit more of a chance.

[padfootthegrim.livejournal.com]

Funny story: My first exposure to Snactuary: drunk at a friend's house, half asleep, I'm playing around on YouTube (back with the show was all webisodes). I hadn't heard of Sanctuary yet, and I came across a vid that, in my half asleep, drunk state, I don't understand. There's Lorne (I think?), and Carson, and Sam Carter with dark hair and an accent and Carson doesn't look right but I didn't realy understand what was going on and I wondered if it was some elaborate fan vid but that didn't make sense to me and I kept wondering and half watching and being very confused and then I fell asleep. When I woke up, I couldn't find the vid again, and I wasn't sure if I'd really seen it or if I'd just dreamed it. It was a few weeks later that I ran across Sanctuary on the internet again (I was sober this time, lol) and figured out what it was.
Since then, I've only seen a couple episodes. It was amusing enough (Paul's character is particularly hilarious- that must be so much fun to play), but I couldn't really get into it, sadly. I want to! So many of the actors are people I absolutely love!

Frustrating. :)

[sholio]

Okay, I can see how that would be seriously disconcerting. :D

[ellenmillion.livejournal.com]

I really, really, really wanted to like this show, but spun out in the middle of season 1.

A while ago, I ran into a fan's list of how you *should* watch it, which is not the order of airing, and completely skips some of the more lamentable episodes. I've been meaning to try to find that again, and see if it is more cohesive in that order, because it's got a lot of promising premise, and I feel like I ought to like it.

[sholio]

Yeah, I had some suggestions above for which episodes to skip to, so I'll try that. I'm really not normally a watching-out-of-order person, but some things, you just have to, and this may well be one of those things! Right now I want to like it, but it's just so, so laughably bad.

[tielan]

I watched through S1 and it didn't grab me. At all. I think I watched up to Episode 1.12 with a friend pretty much dragging me along, and was all "okay, um, well...I've watched it? (can I pls go now?)"

And then, what with the convention and the f-list, I decided to force myself to watch S2, and I've been enjoying the eps I've seen much much more. The budget is still craptastic and the FX bug me, but when they're not trying to throw champagne parties on beer budgets, it's quite enjoyable. Or, at least, no more cringeworthy than, say, SGA was.

[sholio]

I think I'll skip forward to the episodes that penknife and abyssinia4077 suggested, and see how I like those. I'm totally capable of enjoying poorly written cheese as long as it's engaging cheese (see: just about all of Stargate, the ouevre of Marvel Comics, and so forth) but thus far, for me, Sanctuary is missing whatever that factor is that makes a show fun enough that I'm willing to look past its flaws to enjoy it. Right now, all I see are the flaws, and they are MANY.

[wildcat88.livejournal.com]

It occasionally has a good episode, but most of them are exactly like what you've described. In fact, I've found the current season to be the worst so far. The best part of Sanctuary is watching Chris Heyerdahl and Ryan Robbins. Chris gets to be dastardly and Ryan is hilarious.

[sholio]

Ryan Robbins is Henry, right? He's fun! I took to him immediately, in a way I haven't really clicked with the other cast yet.

I'll give some more episodes a try. I guess it helps to not expect it to be great TV, and just enjoy it for the cheesy, low-budget fun of it.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I've been kind of getting into the later episodes of the show. But season one? Yeah, it pretty much scared me off. Too much telling of how awesome the characters and world is supposed to be, but completely without the showing. And the cheese. Oh, the cheese! One episode in particular (I won't say which for spoiler reasons, of course... and also because I don't know what episode it was) almost chased me off for good, the cheese was so thick.

But boredom and staying up until the wee hours has coaxed me into giving the new episodes a chance. And though the cheese is still there I have to say there is quite a lot of improvement. I'm still not sucked into it, but it's a fun popcorn show for when I need something to watch and I'm starting to really enjoy the characters.

But that's the thing about shows, isn't it? You can't judge a book by its cover and you can't really judge a show by its first season. There are so many shows where the first season left me "meh" but after struggling through that first season I eventually found myself so sucked in I became almost obsessed with the show. SGA, White Collar, Haven, Dr. Who (both ten and eleven) - I started off indifferent or unsure, now I love them to pieces.

[sholio]

I need to go back and give White Collar another chance. That's another show where I watched an episode or two, went "Meh, not my thing", and gave up. But it's picked up so much squee on my flist that I want to at least watch enough of it to understand what everyone is talking about!

There haven't been very many shows that really grabbed me in the first episode or two, come to think of it. SGA actually did -- not the premiere, but the two episodes after it hooked me good. But, really, that's an exception; usually it's a slow burn, and I need to start giving more shows a chance and not just giving up after a couple episodes.

[winter-elf.livejournal.com]

I found later seasons better than season 1. But yea, still cheesy. But in a fun - 'it doesn't matter' sort of way. I can watch shows and enjoy them for the entertainment, when I'm not 'fanish' at all about them. Recommendations above are good - any episode with Tesla is wonderful. And yea, they have the steampunky type history and then try to fit in the modern world too... like steampunk grew up into modern. I think they should have left it steampunk

[sholio]

Yeah, I think I'll skip forward and see if later episodes are more appealing to me. It may be that it's just not my kind of show.

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you know me as a cranky sort, but I would absolutely advise you to expect crap and then be pleasantly surprised. I checked it out because I'd heard Hewlett was in it (web-only, it turned out), and then Nykl, and I like Tapping. I never liked Will, which is problematic since he's supposed to be the audience identification character. I've grown to love Tapping, Robbins, Heyerdahl, and Young — in some episodes I could swear Tapping and Heyerdahl were somehow caught performing a different show entirely, and that a far better one — but the effects and the rampant incompetence (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/64558.html) (2x03) are painful. They also can't decide if the characters are a powerful, wealthy international organization or three guys with a rental van and the leftover pocket change from their paper route.

I like Tapping's accent (at least modern-day), but if it makes you cry, just wait until you hear her father. ::shudder::

I somehow stuck with it because others seemed to like it, or claim it got better, and I had the time to waste. And every few episodes I'd decide to quit, only to think I might as well finish out the season. (Such as here (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/67984.html) — 2x07 - 2x09.)

I know a lot of folks are saying they love season 3. I thought "Bank Job" was actually well done (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/90252.html) ... but that just reminded me that they are capable of much better than they usually accomplish, and since then I've been even more dissatisfied. They perpetuate Stargate-verse annoyances (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/89008.html), too (3x01, not really spoilery).

I only watch at this point to enjoy the snarkiness of a few of the actors, and to mock, these days. (To myself; I'm trying to cut down on my squee-harshing. But you asked!)

[sholio]

Hee, now I'm looking forward to watching more episodes in order to read your complaints. :D For some reason, I am rather fond of reading negative reviews of stuff I didn't like much anyway. (Of course, if I do end up liking it, I'll probably change my tune.) Anyway, thanks for the links ... and for the last link (which I did click on), which character did they do that to in the Stargateverse? I'm drawing a blank ...

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

I couldn't stick with it... I just found it really bland. However, I liked the episode where Will had his shirt off. /most helpful comment

[sholio]

LOL! No, the comment is quite helpful, actually. :D

[mirabile-dictu.livejournal.com]

I love the heck out of the show, despite and because of its awfulness. I adore Amanda Tapping and would watch her read the phone book, so that's the biggest draw. I'm really intrigued by the mechanics of how they film on that utterly blank stage with green screens up around them -- I don't know how the actors manage that. Henry Foss is just the coolest character so now I watch for him, too, and occasionally Methos! Peter Wingfield is there as John Watson; he's another actor I'm willing to sit through really bad stuff just to watch and listen to, plus Helen's dad is Joe from Highlander (as someone said, his accent is . . . not good, but I still love him).

Anyway, I go in with very low expectations just to see actors I like and wouldn't otherwise get to see. I really respect how hard Tapping works and how she's created this show out of pretty much nothing, and she gives her friends opportunities to work, too. The rest I just handwave, mute, or fastforward through. It works for me!

[sholio]

plus Helen's dad is Joe from Highlander

... whoa, Jim Byrnes is in this? I fangirl the heck out of him! I think this has made me more intrigued to keep watching than anything else I've heard about the show so far. *g*

[calcitrix.livejournal.com]

I love the show, and I can't even bring myself to re-watch the first several episodes. They are just so silly in that they went for "Ooh, look--we are dealing with amazing huge things here!" and I just went, "The fates? Really?" But that sort of thing settles down, and it gets a little steampunk, I guess would be the best description. At least that's how I look at it; all of these characters--the Five, especially--and storylines start pulling together from the past, and all of these classic legends start cropping up. It has the feel of Dinotopia, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea...and once I got into that space I liked it a lot better and found it really fun. Also I could take or leave Will but there are enough characters I like (Tesla! Henry! Kate!) that there's never an episode without someone I'm attached to in it.

[sholio]

It does make me think a bit of Torchwood, which not only has a similar premise, but started off rather awful and hit its stride later on. So maybe I'll like the later episodes better!

[flingslass.livejournal.com]

Thank goodness I'm not the only one! I couldn't get passed the pilot. It's been kept secret because a lot of my flist LOVE the show :D