Highlander mid-season-five 2-parter

[sholio]

Wow. That was seriously epic. This show! *catches breath*

And the Horsemen of the Apocalypse thing ... did not see that coming AT ALL. Well, okay, having seen those clips of barbarian!Methos did spoil me for that twist once the episode got underway (as soon as Cassandra brought up the horsemen, my reaction was "HOSHIT METHOS"), but yeah ... again with managing to remain unspoiled for what is probably one of the easiest spoilers to run across in the whole fandom. *g*

I'm still processing a lot of it. I love, as always, how complicated the show makes things -- it's not as simple as Methos going along with Kronos & co. out of fear, or because they're his friends, or because he's tempted by what they're offering, but perhaps a little of all three, in different measures depending on the moment. I liked seeing the less pleasant side of Duncan's moral absolutism: that it's both a strength and a failing of his. I liked the recognition that the Bronze Age Eurasian world was rough and cruel and brutal (Cassandra's fate -- captured, raped, her people killed -- was the fate of a lot of women in her time), but also that the same kind of cruelty and brutality still exists today (the Vietnam comparison -- that whole conversation with Joe and Duncan -- was brilliant).

I suspect that when I dive into the fanworks for this show that I'm going to find a lot of stories in which Methos is written as a guilt-ridden woobie, and, I don't know, I guess one of the things I really love about him is that he's not? I don't get the impression that he's sitting around being eaten up with guilt for those days. He just doesn't want to do it again; like he says at one point, it was a phase he went through, and now he's moved on. Which is not to say that he doesn't have regrets or guilt at all -- obviously he does for specific things (like what happened to Cassandra). But, again, not to the consuming level, and I don't think he hates himself for it or anything.

I don't think anything in these episodes changed my general impressions of Methos that I was talking about in the last post, but it added a lot of depth and complexity.

So, yeah ... still pondering the character stuff in the episodes, still kind of blown away by the action and the epic scope.

Comments

[gnine.livejournal.com]

"I killed, but I didn't just kill 50, I didn't kill a hundred, I killed a thousand, I killed TEN THOUSAND!!"

Yay, I was waiting to comment on the last post till you saw these! One of the things you said about Methos, that he IS kind of a NOT NICE person, but after these eps, it's that he once was so soooo much worse, he HAS gotten better and he doesn't really want to go back. He doesn't feel guilt ridden or anything, but he likes himself better now...and I think he does like that Duncan tends to drag him to the not-evil leanings of his nature.

And when I mentioned earlier that the first ep I ever saw was the second part of a two parter...yeah, it was this one. I have...interesting luck when it comes to first eps of shows...^_-

[sholio]

Heh, that must have been some introduction to the series! No wonder you ended up hooked; I don't think you would have had much choice at that point. :D

And yeah, "not very nice, but used to be a whole lot worse" is a good way to describe Methos. *g* I'm still trying to get a handle on how I view him as a character, and how I feel about him -- I mean, I know I really like him as a character, but I'm not so sure about what I think of him as someone I might like to, say, get inside his head in fanfic. I think you're right, though, that he likes who he is now a lot better than who he was then, and doesn't want to be that person anymore. I don't think he was unhappy being that person at the time -- it's not just an excuse that it was a different era, and also, I think that an Immortal would have been even more powerful in a Bronze Age world than in a medieval world; it must have felt like being a god, and who wouldn't be easily caught up in that? But he's moved on, the world's moved on, and he obviously prefers who he is now.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah - more even than being like a god; with the religions of those times, Immortals pretty much *were* gods, or close enough. Especially if you first came back in a fairly isolated community, and there weren't any other Immortals about to tell you what the deal was (if there even was a deal then - do they actually mention the Game anytime during the Horsemen flashbacks? Is it possible that actually came later?) It would go to anyone's head...

[sholio]

Yeah, even aside from the theological aspects, I think an Immortal would have a lot more relative power in an era with few nation-states and limited technology, and it was also the era of the Hittites and such; Methos et al were hardly the only people doing that kind of thing, which doesn't make it right, but in that society, that culture, I can see how he could have developed along those lines and then later begun to rethink the whole "rape, pillage, kill" situation ...

And I don't think anyone mentioned the Game in the flashbacks, so perhaps that was a later development -- interesting! At the very least there must have been fewer Immortals in the world then (maybe?), and a lot fewer edged metal weapons, so it probably didn't have the shape that it's taken by modern times.

[sheron]

When Silas and Kronos come after Duncan, one of them says, "Just like old times..." which suggests that they've taken on other immortals in a similar fashion. However Silas stops and doesn't interfere during the fight. I've always been fascinated by that.

In fact, having four immortals band together -- instead of killing each other -- and call each other brothers, and spent a thousand years together is a pretty monumental accomplishment.

Methos says at some point about how he's never been married to an immortal, because that would be a hell of a commitment to make. "You'd have to love someone a hell of a lot to be with them for three hundred years." It's really interesting to examine that comment in light of these revelations.

I'm just fascinated by the relationship between Methos and Kronos... there's fear, but there's also so much more there.

And yes, so many angles of it are examined in the fanfic. *g*

I also have read some really wonderful fics that take into account Cassandra's point of view, so the fandom's take on the subject is not all bad at all. :)

[sholio]

In fact, having four immortals band together -- instead of killing each other -- and call each other brothers, and spent a thousand years together is a pretty monumental accomplishment.

Methos says at some point about how he's never been married to an immortal, because that would be a hell of a commitment to make. "You'd have to love someone a hell of a lot to be with them for three hundred years." It's really interesting to examine that comment in light of these revelations.

Oh, that's a really great point!

I love this show's complexity, because, yeah, that was one thing I really liked about the character dynamics in the episode -- it wasn't as simple as Methos being shanghai'd and dragged along with the Horsemen against his will. There were elements of that, sure ... but these were also his friends, his family, his people for a thousand years. There had to have been a part of him that just enjoyed having the band back together again. But he'd moved on, become a different person, and they hadn't.

[sheron]

I love that there's so much mythology that can be woven into HL canon, that immortals could have been any figure in history (until confirmed otherwise).

Someone once commented in your journal that one of the things they like about HL is that there are so many different types of fic that can be written about it -- it can incorporate scifi and fantasy, drama and romance, historical fiction, horror, anything!

Actually that's one of the things I really appreciate about Cassandra's character -- specifically her Voice and her being 3000 years old -- is neat because it opens another door for fic writers. Now there are people that posses a special ability like Kantos and Cassandra, which opens the door to more supernatural events while at the same time the universe is essentially _our_ universe. Something I've always loved about SG1/SGA was that it was tied to "our" reality in a way where I could suspend disbelief and yet incorporated all these amazing adventures.

Plus, there aren't many immortals who have survived to Amanda's age let alone Cassandra's and it's quite interesting to have one more character that's led an incredibly long life.

[trobadora]

I think you're right, though, that he likes who he is now a lot better than who he was then, and doesn't want to be that person anymore.

Yes! It's the reason he tends to run away from fights if he can, I think. He could still be a killer, but he doesn't want to be.