Let's talk about point of view!

[sholio]

So I'm at about 9000 words on the WIP-of-the-moment, and I've realized, as the plot evolves, that the viewpoint I'm in is probably not going to work for the whole story.

Which reminded me that I love talking about the writing process, and I haven't made a writing post lately.

The tricky thing is that the current viewpoint character (Sam Carter) is probably going to be perfect for about 80% of the story. It's the rest of it that is giving me fits. I could probably unfold the plot just fine in Sam's POV by leaving out big chunks of the self-indulgent and world-building stuff. *g* But it's fanfic, dammit. If I want to play in my AU world, I don't want to deny myself for purely mechanical reasons. And I want to tell those parts of the story, even if they end up not being wholly necessary from a strict exposition standpoint.

Re-reading some of my long stories (or parts of them) when I was redoing my website over the holiday was a bit of an eye-opener. I'm shocked at how much more careful I've gotten about viewpoint. In "That Which is Broken", I actually switch POV in the middle of a scene. (Bad writer, no biscuit!) In "Fading Sun", I narrate several chapters from Rodney's POV and then, inexplicably, switch to another character, and continue switching throughout the rest of the fic.

Fanfic, as a medium, is a lot more forgiving of that kind of thing than pro fic. I doubt if most readers noticed. Obviously I didn't notice myself when I was writing. Technically, I could just go on for another 5000 words in Sam's head and then hop into Character B when it becomes necessary -- I think the audience would forgive it. But I don't want to -- now that I'm aware of the issue, I'd like to do better this time around. So I'm dithering with various solutions, which basically are going to involve giving up on some of the scenes I really want to write, or massively rewriting some of what I've already got.

So, readers, writers ... talk to me about point of view! I'm really not fishing for solutions (I've got several of those, just have to decide which one hurts me less *g*) but I'd love to chat about what you think of a story's POV when you write and read. Does it bother you if a story suddenly hops narrators in mid-plot, or do you even notice? Do you prefer stories that stick to one character's POV, or stories that hop around, or do you care? Is the choice of narrators a major writing decision for you, or something that happens organically? Is it different for AUs vs. canon-based stories? Do you have any anecdotes about stories you wrote where the POV did something interesting, or stories you read that made you think about POV in a new way?

Comments

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

Fanfic, as a medium, is a lot more forgiving of that kind of thing than pro fic.

Actually, I'm not sure about that. I don't even remember how often I've seen some variation of the "ZOMG you can't use epithets!!!1!1" rant, and yet Jim Butcher continues to sell millions of his books. Stephen Erikson changes the POV characters in his Epic fantasy saga all the frigging time. I've read books where the writing was so bad I seriously boggled over how they could have been published.

Parts of fandom don't care about style, true. But other parts will hit the back button if you so much as use the "wrong" metaphor.

[sholio]

Hee! Okay, let me rephrase. I think fanfic readers, in general, are fairly forgiving of roughness in style as long as the story is emotionally satisfying. Profic readers are probably likewise, but editors usually aren't (though some published fic definitely makes me wonder).

[snarkydame.livejournal.com]

Ha. My very first fanfic is still stalled out because I didn't like the way I was handling the POV. I should get back to that. . .

Lately, I've been trying to keep close tabs on the POV characters, and keep things simple. But that that doesn't always work, as you already know. But I don't like switching POV just because it's convenient. So if I know I'm going to need multiple Points of View I try to come up with a consistent system -- like many novels I have read that switch POV every chapter, or every couple of chapters, consistently.

Really, when I'm reading, shifting POV does not bother me at all, so long as it seems planned, and logical, and not just because the author painted themselves into a corner.

[sholio]

Really, when I'm reading, shifting POV does not bother me at all, so long as it seems planned, and logical, and not just because the author painted themselves into a corner.

*nods* That's definitely what I'm hoping to avoid!

[dreamingoctober.livejournal.com]

POV is extremely important to me when I read a story, but I love reading stories where POV is presented in unique ways. I don't mind POV-hopping in a story (I'm a Robert Jordan fan - multi-POV is cake to me), but the change between characters must be logical and well-defined. No switching in the middle of a scene, for example - unless there is a very specific stylistic reason for doing so. If there is an obvious reason, I'm more than happy to go with the flow!

I love single POV for character pieces, but even a character piece with a multi-POV can be great if the writer does it well. In fact, I'll love just about anything that is well-written and well-planned, and I will admire the form just as much as the story itself! :D

One of my favorite novels that plays with POV in a fascinating way is "The Woman in White" by Wilke Collins. It is essentially an epistolary novel, but it's also a sort of "round robin", where the story is always moving forward in a linear time frame, but the character POV switches according to who was present for what part of the story AND how they recorded that part of the story. For example, in letters, or in a diary, or a date book, or a death certificate, or a gravestone, or notations in a church's census book. It is elegant and gorgeous and exciting to read.

Another use of POV that I like, especially in fanfic, is the creation of multiple stand-alone stories, each from one POV, that combine together to tell one cohesive story. For example, as in your case, if it is necessary to leave out a scene in one story because the POV switch is too disruptive, a companion story covering that missing scene can "add to" the original story and expands and even reinterpret it, adding layers of meaning. (that wasn't a suggestion - just an example. ;) )

In my own writing, I tend to let characters lead who have the most significant view of a particular story point. I do tend to switch POVs in most stories, reserving single POV for character studies or very in-depth character pieces, but I try to make those switches both obvious and necessary.

My current WIP (which will end up being my SGA Big Bang story) cycles through the POVs of all the main characters and several minor ones as the narrative moves constantly forward in time. This results in a lot of "missing scenes", where other characters are off doing something else during the time that the story focuses on that one specific POV. However, what unfolds during that particular POV is the most important moment of the story at that point, told from the viewpoint of the character living that experience.

Also, I think POV switching becomes more necessary with a larger cast of characters who are all off doing different things, whereas in a story with only two or three characters who tend to stay together for the most part, a single POV would be sufficient.

It's 3 a.m. here, so I should probably cease rambling. I'm so looking forward to reading everyone else's thoughts on this subject!!

[sholio]

For example, as in your case, if it is necessary to leave out a scene in one story because the POV switch is too disruptive, a companion story covering that missing scene can "add to" the original story and expands and even reinterpret it, adding layers of meaning.

*nods* This is one thing about fanfic we really ought to take more advantage of, so I'm glad you brought it up; there is absolutely no reason why a story couldn't be told in the form of two separate stories, or one main story and a half-dozen side stories, or whatnot. In practice, it doesn't seem to be done that way very often, though it's always awfully nifty to discover some side stories for a beloved fanfic ...

I love unreliable narrators and unusual uses of POV, but I also love being able to engage with a large cast of characters -- which often involves switching through them. There just aren't any easy answers!

And I'm looking forward to your story. :D

[calcitrix.livejournal.com]

As far as POV, I really don't mind more than one in a story if the switch happens at a break that makes sense, and if there's a reasonable limit. I recently read an SG-1 novel that had several robot clones (with tech from Harlan's world) and many chapters were from various Jack and Daniel robot POVs--it got confusing a couple times, and that was a case in which I thought it was overdone.

What I don't care for is when a story is from one character's POV but the author puts in narration about other characters' feelings and thoughts. I read that a lot in fanfic, and I understand wanting to add that input especially in a romantic scene, but it tends to throw me out of the story rather than draw me in.

I guess it's about the overall feel of the story, you know? Some work tightly focused on one character and limited to what he or she knows and feels, and some need more input either for plot or because the characters play off of one another. It would be an interesting experiment to write (roughly) the same story a few different times from one, two, and three or more POVs just to see how they turn out.

[sholio]

What I don't care for is when a story is from one character's POV but the author puts in narration about other characters' feelings and thoughts.

I think that'd be third person omniscient? And yeah, it's really hard to do well. I've rarely seen it done when it didn't jar me out of the story.

It would be an interesting experiment to write (roughly) the same story a few different times from one, two, and three or more POVs just to see how they turn out.

That would be really interesting. :D Now I want to try it!

It's actually been done a couple of times, come to think of it. There's a McKay/Sheppard story around somewhere (I think it's by chrysothemis?) that exists in several versions from different characters' POVs; you can choose which one to read. I don't recall if I've ever actually read it, though ... And someone did it with a long SG-1 story -- it's either Jack/Daniel or Daniel-focused gen, I forget which, but I think there are three (?) different versions of that one. I'm trying to recall more details, because that one I *did* read, and changing the narrator really changes the story, but all I'm dredging up from my memory is that there's some kind of apocalypse.

There have been a couple stories of mine where I've changed the narrator and gone back and rewritten the story from the other point of view, but it's always happened very early in the writing process, when I could tell things weren't working. I'm intrigued, now, by the idea of trying what you suggested on some of mine. :D

[ariadne83]

This is something that's really bugging me with my au_bigbang story. I'm planning on switching off between two POVs but I'm worried about how cohesive the story will be /rant

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If the POV switch adds information to the story/plot I like it better than if it's an excuse to see what the writer's other favorite character thinks about the main pairing (usually written as "ZOMG gossip squee").

astolat's Oblivious wouldn't have worked if it didn't change POV at the mid-point.

[dreamingoctober.livejournal.com]

Agreed - I think "advances or enhances the plot" should be a reason for any POV switches.

Also, I'd never read Oblivious before - thanks for that! I've just bookmarked it in my favorites. It's an excellent example of a story that needs two POVs to get the ultimate point across: "That's not what's funny."

[rydra_wong]

As a reader, I do like POV allocation to be ... structured.

There should be some discernible pattern to how the POV shifts -- i.e., rotating POV between a small group of characters, with all of them getting roughly equal time throughout the story. Or sticking to one. Or alternating between two. Or a completely new POV for each section -- this can work in stories where the focus is on the world-building, piecing together a picture from how it affects various characters on the outside of the events.

Anything except "My story is all told from X's POV, except for this one bit where I have to drop into minor character Z's POV to cover this important bit that X can't be there to witness" or "I will alternate between A, B, C, and D, except in the last five chapters where I will completely forget that A had a POV at all" and suchlike.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

"I will alternate between A, B, C, and D, except in the last five chapters where I will completely forget that A had a POV at all"

That does work, however, if you've been a mean nasty author and killed off A (although it might be interesting to keep A's PoV anyway. Especially if you're writing Stargate so people suck at staying dead anyway) :P

Regardless, yes, exactly what you said. Multiple PoV's are totally fine provided there is rhyme and reason and structure and not just randomly switching for a paragraph where it looks accidental (or, man, I read a Jack/Daniel fic once that switched EVERY PARAGRAPH and rewound the action a bit each time. I think the goal was to enjoy the hot porny action from both perspectives, but it just drove me crazy. And drove me away).

[http://users.livejournal.com/tesserae_/]

Actually, after spending all these years immersed in fic and discussions about writing it, I'm amazed at how many pro-level short stories get published that seem to wander through multiple POVs. In fic, I'll back right out of a story with a wandering POV, and so I tried to figure out why it annoys me so much (other than ZOMG lazy writing!): it sucks all the tension oout of a story to know everything from the narrator's POV, in my opinion.

What a unique POV can give you is character: not what's there in the room but what that individual person notices and takes meaning from; not what Person B is thinking/planning but the gestures/words that resonate with the POV character; even the face of the beloved, through the lover's eyes - all of that really makes a story rich for me, and you lose so much of that when a writer doesn't understand how to use POV in a story. Of course, that implies knowing how to write multiple voices, too - shifting POVs never really works for me if the different voices all sound exactly the same.

And so, as rydra_wong says, I'm perfectly happy to see deliberate changes in POV in a story, as long as there's a strong organic-to-the-story reason for doing so and it's done strictly, at logical points, and to some kind of an internal rhythm. I don't want to see so many POV characters that I say, "Wait, what? Who are you?" every two pages, or, as she says, have the shift happen just to make things easier on the writer.

And you know, I'm not sure I would have noticed POV, or known how it worked for me as a reader, if I hadn't logged so many hours thinking about it here. When everyone is reading the same texts about the same characters (broadly speaking) but those texts are produced by hundreds of people, I think you get a unique prspective on things like voice and POV...

[sholio]

Question - is your icon an actual scene from the show, or is it a manip? Because if it's a scene, I want to know which one. :D

Actually, after spending all these years immersed in fic and discussions about writing it, I'm amazed at how many pro-level short stories get published that seem to wander through multiple POVs.

I know, right? Oh my god, reading fanfic has made me so incredibly picky about profic. I am aware that profic has different requirements than fanfic for all kinds of reasons (for example, though I personally hate them, I will grudgingly acknowledge that infodumps are sometimes necessary in profic to get the setting established), but even though I've always been a voracious reader, I've noticed that reading (and writing) fanfic over the last ten years has made me noticeably more analytical about the books I read, and much less likely to stick with a book that turns me off with various stylistic issues in the first ten pages.

I think what you said in your last paragraph about many people working with the same texts really speaks to the heart of that, too. It's like many variations on a single theme, allowing you (the generic reader "you") to pick out specifically which aspects work or don't work for you. With profic, the whole package is unique -- it's hard to figure out if you were kicked out of the story because you just don't like first person, or because the main character is offputting in some fashion, or because of the author's overly verbose style. With fanfic, you get the same characters in a million different settings and authorial voices; it's an awesome stylistic testing ground. As well as making me pickier about profic, ironically, fanfic has also had the opposite effect by making me more open to experimental fiction of all stripes -- things that would have been instant turnoffs for me in the past (present tense, for example, or most first person) are things that I'm more than willing to try now.

Of course, that implies knowing how to write multiple voices, too - shifting POVs never really works for me if the different voices all sound exactly the same.

*nods* I'm not overly fond of Sarah Monette's books from a storytelling perspective, but OMG, does she have a masterful grasp of character voice; you can open any of her Labyrinth books to a random page, read two sentences and know exactly which character you're reading.

I've found it really interesting to notice how my ability to write various characters in SGA fandom has waxed and waned. Lately it seems like I've been very comfortable writing Sheppard's voice, whereas in the beginning, I really struggled with him ...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I get titchy when the POV switches repeatedly within a scene - third-person omniscient is difficult to pull off well, and jumping between too many chars often feels like cheating to me. I usually find it more interesting to get one character's POV at a time; I like close POVs, with their potential observer bias.

But a single POV switch in a scene is a bit clumsy but not really off-putting, and I don't tend to mind new POVs brought in later; if a story switches suddenly I might blink a bit, but it won't put me off.

I used to switch POV a lot - usually by scene, though I've been surprised to read my earlier stuff and find that sometimes I started in 3rd person omniscient and then went close. More recently I've been writing fics from a single POV, but that's less a deliberate style choice, and more because I find it easier to only have one voice in my head at a time.

I have had stories that I ran into trouble and then switched the POV and then it worked. A lot of times when I'm coming up with a story I'll spend time thinking about who I want to tell it, because it makes such a difference in how it unfolds...

[sholio]

A lot of times when I'm coming up with a story I'll spend time thinking about who I want to tell it, because it makes such a difference in how it unfolds...

Doesn't it, though? As I've been responding to the comments above, I've been thinking about my own tendency to resist rewriting massive tracts of fic in a new voice even when I probably should have; I can't help thinking that that's where some of my problems with POV stem from, because I'll realize as I go along that I really should be in another character's voice, but I get lazy and don't put in the work that I really ought to.

I've read that profic writers often have a parodoxical problem where, as they become better writers, their word count goes massively downhill -- because they rewrite more, and are simply pickier about what words they put down on the page. I think this is happening to me right now; I used to just throw things out there, and now I think about it a lot more. Ironically this is resulting in a much lower output of both fanfic and original fic than I used to create ...

[jimandblair.livejournal.com]

The more I think about writing the less likely I am to do it. There are so many rules and so many people to please.

Once upon a time a long, long time ago, I read – somewhere – that there was a rule which allowed you to switch POV mid-paragraph. I read the instructions and didn’t understand… 0_o I never found those rules again. Maybe I dreamt it?

Multiple POV switches in a paragraph, especially if it’s a short paragraph, can be very back-button enabling. But I’ve read incidences where there’s a smooth transition to a second character’s POV within a paragraph, which has worked. Generally, this has been where the first character has left the scene (either mentally or physically). I think that the trick is to then stay within the second characters POV for the rest of the chapter.

Multiple POV switches in a story, I think I’d try for 50/50 (not that I’d count words or anything). But I’d probably switch on a chapter basis, rather than a paragraph basis. And I’d start doing this style at the outset evenly, rather than: 40% Sheppard; 5% McKay; 5% Sheppard; 30% McKay; 1% Sheppard; 20% McKay….

These thoughts obviously work for the longer stories rather than the shorter stories.

Needless to say I have committed all the egregious errors out there and probably ignored what I’ve written above.

[sholio]

The more I think about writing the less likely I am to do it.

LOL, I was just saying much the same thing (in different words) in one of my above comments. The more that I learn about writing, the better I get, but the less writing I manage to actually accomplish!

I think another thing I'm realizing is that I need to start a story with a clear POV plan in mind, and stick to it. It seems like my most successful stories, with regards to POV, are those where I've built the story around an established POV framework -- like "Running on Empty", where I alternated chapters from Sheppard and McKay's perspectives, or "Killing Frost", which was a series of many short sections from dozens of viewpoints. It's when I focus on the plot without having that kind of plan in mind that I run into trouble, it seems.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

I once read a pov switch mid-scene that was so well-done that I only noticed it on second reading and because I was betaing. It was done in a way that the 'camera' slowly zoomed away out of deep 3rd, zoomed out of the room, then zoomed back into the other character. So apparently this stuff can work if it's not done abruptly. If it is, it completely tears me out of the scene, because my brain provides a visual of the scene.

Not really relevant to your problem here, but I found it interesting at the time. :)

I used to be a stickler for correct POV, to the point that I couldn't enjoy otherwise great fic; fortunately my two years of reading in Bones fandom, (where POVs were hopping all over the place like little bunnies) cured me of that. And I was really glad about that.

Hm, there was an interesting LJ discussion a few years ago, titled POV change, bring them on. Maybe I can find that again. Actually made me realize that I viewed POV a tad too rigidly.

Do you prefer stories that stick to one character's POV, or stories that hop around, or do you care?

I don't have a preference, myself, just as long as the POV doesn't switch suddenly in the middle of a scene. I think you could sell 80% in Sam's POV and the rest in something else, maybe if it's tied to the structure or something like that. I think a writer can get away with a lot if they're aware what they're doing.

[sholio]

I once read a pov switch mid-scene that was so well-done that I only noticed it on second reading and because I was betaing. It was done in a way that the 'camera' slowly zoomed away out of deep 3rd, zoomed out of the room, then zoomed back into the other character. So apparently this stuff can work if it's not done abruptly. If it is, it completely tears me out of the scene, because my brain provides a visual of the scene.

That's really interesting! Yeah, I have much the same problem when I'm reading, because I think I know how I'm "looking" at the scene, and then suddenly it changes -- it's a really uncomfortable wrenching kind of effect.

I think to some extent, having become so analytical about what I write, and read, is making me less happy than when I was just all, "Squee! This fic is pushing my buttons! I don't care about the writing quality!" *wibbles* I mean, yes, on the one hand I'm delighted that I'm improving as a writer, but sometimes it feels like some of the shiny has worn off because of that.

[dossier.livejournal.com]

random pov switching bothers me a lot, though I do appreciate stories with more than one pov--as long as it's not two scenes duplicated with the exact same dialog. I think it depends on how much intimacy you want to invoke in the reader, some stories work better when there are more than one POV, the reader gets the omniscient view of the story, and it's all about the big picture. Other stories that really delve into the characters generally benefit from a single viewpoint, or very limited switching.

I know what you mean about losing a chunk of story when you elect to use a single pov. It pained me so much to not have Rodney's take on East/West, but I think ultimately that story was far better for the near-suffocating John as unreliable narrator.

[sholio]

Oog, now I want Rodney's take on East/West! Any of it! I hope someday you give us some snippets of that, like you did with Elizabeth and Daniel.

... but at the same time, I think it was absolutely the right decision to keep the whole story in Sheppard's POV. Actually, it's one of the things that makes the story stand out in my mind from the rest of the herd, because at least in my reading experience, tight single-narrator POV is rare in long genfic -- it's not completely unheard-of by any means, but rotating POV is the norm (again in my experience; as noted elsewhere in the comments, others have had different experiences). And it really helps focus the story on Sheppard's emotional journey and transformation.

[wneleh.livejournal.com]

Does it bother you if a story suddenly hops narrators in mid-plot, or do you even notice?

My big thing, when reading (or even watching a movie or TV), is consistency. If I don't know whose head we're in, or how far out of everyone's heads we are, I feel lost.

That said, in fic I actually read (I don't finish the vast majority of the fics I open), this isn't usually an issue. An exception was one of katieforsythe's Holmes/Watson fics. She's a wonderful writer, but in one of her stories she drops the first-person Watson POV to show Holmes visiting his brother, 3rd person Holmes POV. It was obvious she was doing it because it was fanfic and she could; but it's now the only thing I remember about that particular story.

Do you prefer stories that stick to one character's POV, or stories that hop around, or do you care?

As long as it's done logically/clearly (or unclearly, but for a reason) I don't care. Even omniscient-three-POVs-in-one-sentence can be fine, though I've never seen it in fanfic I don't think.

Is the choice of narrators a major writing decision for you, or something that happens organically?

It's a major decision, but sometimes it doesn't get made until fairly late in the game - I start writing just to get myself writing, and then figure out what I'm trying to do. Other times, POV is the whole point of a story.

Is it different for AUs vs. canon-based stories?

Nope. I do think you can get away with POV oddness in epilogs and prologs, FWIW.

My favorite fun-with-POV example is this passage from R. K. Narayan's "Swami and Friends":

The three youngsters could hardly believe their eyes. Somu and Mani fighting! They lost their heads. They thought that Somu and Mani were killing each other. They looked accusingly at one another, and then ran towards the school.

They burst in upon the headmaster, who gathered from them with difficulty that in the adjacent field two murders were being committed at that very moment. He was disposed to laugh at first. But the excitement and seriousness on the boys’ faces made him check his laughter and scratch his chin. He called a peon and with him set off to the field.

The fighters, rolling and rolling, were everywhere in the field. The headmaster and the peon easily picked them apart, much to the astonishment of Swaminathan, who had thought till then that the strength that Somu or Mani possessed was not possessed by anyone else in the world.

My only issue with this is that it kind of lacks - respect? - for the kids.

[sholio]

That excerpt just confused me ... I found it impossible to follow what was happening. :/ But then, I tend to have trouble following omniscient POV in general; some writers can do it in a way that I can follow, but usually it just leaves me feeling disoriented and irritable.

An exception was one of katieforsythe's Holmes/Watson fics. She's a wonderful writer, but in one of her stories she drops the first-person Watson POV to show Holmes visiting his brother, 3rd person Holmes POV. It was obvious she was doing it because it was fanfic and she could; but it's now the only thing I remember about that particular story.

It's interesting to me how different canons lend themselves to different styles of narration. I can see how a first-person canon like Holmes would tend to lead to a great many first-person fics. The only fandom in which I regularly read that uses canonical first person is Dresden Files, and most of the fic is first person Harry-voice. (Actually, I've read Dresden fic that switched between first-person for Harry and third-person for everyone else, and shockingly, made it work!) In SGA, first-person is rare, and it's even rarer for me to find one that really works for me. I'm not sure if that just has to do with the fact that it's uncommon and therefore somewhat jarring, or (my personal theory) it's because canon is very plainly in the third person, so it's difficult to get proper canonical feeling while using the more informal and POV-limited first person style.

[ldyanne.livejournal.com]

I do tend to like stories that stick to one or two POVs during the story rather than hopping about willy nilly from several different characters POVs. I get attached to characters and want to hear what they're saying, thinking, feeling. I get frustrated when there's a dizzying change of POVs for several different characters, some of whom I don't even care about. (yes, Jim Butcher I'm looking at you)

As to where the switch occurs, I don't think it's a problem to have a switch in POV happen later in the story if it's logical and well-thought out.

[sholio]

I get attached to characters and want to hear what they're saying, thinking, feeling. I get frustrated when there's a dizzying change of POVs for several different characters, some of whom I don't even care about.

Heh, this makes me think of something that's weirdly common in fantasy novels (I'm sure there are other offenders, but it's fantasy where I notice this the most) -- switching chapters to a new set of characters just as things get interesting with the other set. And just as you get involved in the new characters, they switch again! aaaaargh.

[trobadora]

Fanfic, as a medium, is a lot more forgiving of that kind of thing than pro fic.

Really? My impression is the opposite - fanfic is usually very tight third person, limited to one or (in longer stories) two of the main characters, and profic just doesn't limit itself like that. For a while there I read fanfic almost exclusively, and when I got back into reading profic, I really noticed how much more varied profic is when it comes to POV.

(Well. Maybe it's not that POV switches are less common in fanfic but that they're generally just written off as bad writing/an error in judgment? Because my impression is absolutely that there seems to have evolved a platonic ideal of POV in fanfic which is one character only, or at best switching between the two main characters in a romantic pairing.)

For my own writing, when it comes to longer stories I generally have one main POV and one or two secondary POVs, and I try to make the switches follow some kind of pattern. (I love patterns.) But I'm trying to become more flexible on this. Handling more POVs, including one-off single-chapter POVs, is one of the things I'm trying to teach myself. The important thing is, I think, to make sure you're not just randomly brain-hopping but that the changed POV actually matters to the story.

On the other hand, what I absolutely can't tolerate is switching POV mid-paragraph - that drives me batty and generally throws me out of the story. I've seen published fiction and fanfic both doing that, but I really hate it.

ETA: Meant to comment on this too:

Is the choice of narrators a major writing decision for you, or something that happens organically?

It's generally decided by the plot. For example, in the original thing I'm preparing to write right now, there are two major plot threads. One of them depends on the main character stumbling into a complex situation where his judgments about the other characters keeps shifting, and for full effect, I need to remain mostly in his POV. The other plot thread has a central moral dilemma that only one of the two main characters is aware of, so that's the POV I'm taking. On the other hand, that's only the main POVs - I'm definitely planning to add more to flesh out the world, make it broader and less claustrophobic. So that part is a deliberate choice, yes - I'm sure you could tell this story strictly from the two main POVs, but that'd make it a different story from the one I want to tell.

[rydra_wong]

fanfic is usually very tight third person, limited to one or (in longer stories) two of the main characters

I think that's partly because it's the hardest POV to screw up (as numerous bits of fannish writing advice have pointed out).

First person requires tricky considerations of storytelling voice (for example, when you've got a character who's laconic or inarticulate), second alienates some readers and can look like a stunt, and third omniscient is really hard to do right, without it looking like you're headhopping. So tight third can look like the safest option.

And most short stories don't have much room for juggling more than one or two POVs.

But it would be fascinating to start collecting recs for great fics with non-standard POVs. I know synecdochic's managed some excellent first person Jack O'Neill, for example.

[carose59.livejournal.com]

I once had a zine editor laughingly point out that I had changed POVs--in the middle of a sentence! (What can I say, I was young...ish.)

In the last few years I've been writing a series of stories where, sometimes, I just need to tell the same story from two--or sometimes three--different POVs. I've really enjoyed that--and have gotten some great feedback from readers who enjoyed it, two. Not worrying about making things completely match helped a lot.

[sholio]

In the last few years I've been writing a series of stories where, sometimes, I just need to tell the same story from two--or sometimes three--different POVs. I've really enjoyed that--and have gotten some great feedback from readers who enjoyed it, two.

I actually find it really cool when authors do this! Not so much a literal retelling of the story, as a new viewpoint on something we've already seen. And little inconsistencies just make the whole thing more interesting. Is one of the characters lying? Are they misremembering? I love that stuff. :D I remember one book I once read that really sticks in my head for having told the first half in first-person POV, then switching to another narrator who is compiling a bio of the first narrator and trying to figure out how much of his story was actually a lie; it was an absolutely fascinating "unreliable narrator" story, especially as you never do get positive answers about some of the supposed "facts" in the first half of the book. But I can also see something like that being massively frustrating rather than interesting, depending on how it's done.

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

(Sorry for the two parts; this is a topic that really interests me.)

POV is profoundly important to me; it's part of how I place myself relative to the story. It's not just where the story is, or when, but who's telling it. That matters because who's telling the story also changes the meaning of certain observations (at least if the characters are written as characters rather than mouthpieces). I'm not just positioning myself in a given place and time, but behind the eyes of someone (or someones) particular.

It bothers me deeply if POV isn't handled carefully, though I'll forgive it in an otherwise enjoyable story. I greatly enjoyed both, but I seem to recall being startled by the switch in "That Which Is Broken" and feeling unbalanced by "Fading Sun" (though it's possible I'm assuming in retrospect).

That matter of balance is relevant to mid-plot switches. I don't inherently care whether a story is told from one POV or twenty, so long as each POV makes sense and so long as there is a reasonable balance or structured pattern. A story told 80% Sam and 20% other can be fine, if the switches are distributed reasonably evenly ... but if it's 80% Sam and then a break to 20% other, I get thrown off, because the "rules" established by the narrative itself have been broken. The reader should know what POV rules to expect before getting too deeply into a story.

(I hold profic to the same standard. There's a Cynthia Voigt story that's 90% or 95% close-POV of one character, with the second character disappearing for stretches in which he experiences quite a lot that would be dramatic if we saw it — such as slavery and enforced mining. Then the POV character dies and the narrative switches over to the second character for the very end, for the first time in the entire book. I gave the book a negative review at Amazon because of that switch. Sure, writers can experiment with structure ... but experiments can fail, and that one really didn't work for me. It just felt as if she'd written herself into a corner and couldn't be bothered to go back and give us other passages from the second character's perspective to fix the problem of narrative expectation.)

I don't see AU versus canon mattering, really; it's down to the individual plot. [TBC ...]

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

Is the choice of narrators a major writing decision for you, or something that happens organically? [...] Do you have any anecdotes about stories you wrote where the POV did something interesting, or stories you read that made you think about POV in a new way?

I often go into writing a story with an idea for POV, but it's primarily organic. From my own stories:
- "Remorse" was originally meant to be just Sam. As I started developing the idea, I saw that Rodney would need his own say, but it didn't work to thread him through the first part for a few reasons. First, the second part would be only his, which was unbalancing; second, the first part is entirely about the reader knowing the changes in him but the other characters not, so the perspective had to be outside him to really bring out how much of that change others could see (or fail to see) in this situation; third, his perspective would be much more emotional and snap the almost callous tone, which mood helped enforce the environment he was in; and fourth, I wanted to make it clear through use of the non-Rodney POVs that some of the possible explanations, such as a virtual environment, can be ruled out by the reader but not by Rodney. All of that was best served by keeping everything outside him for the entire first part. Daniel, on the other hand, was a complete surprise; somehow he just worked better for the conference room scene, but that meant I had to go back and switch an earlier passage from Sam to Daniel so the reader knew to expect POV changes and the later switch wouldn't seem so clumsy.

- "Allergy" switches among three people, and I often wonder if I should have held back from posting long enough to make that two. I purposely structured the POV to start and end with John, with Rodney in the middle (because clear patterns work into reader expectations of narrative structure); Carson only ended up having one scene, and I can tell myself it works as the pivot for the story, but I'm still not sure I was right not to rewrite that to Rodney's POV.

- "Antigonish", the post-Trinity I'm currently writing, was originally an alternation between close-POV Rodney and omniscient third for worldbuilding and plot advancement. The omniscient passages were really grating and I ended up yanking them, even though that gives me a problem establishing certain plot-relevant content early in the story now. I still think I should use only Rodney for POV (rather than moving around) in this case, because the sense of restriction plays into his (slightly skewed) sense of isolation ... but unfortunately that means I'm having trouble establishing the other characters. His perspective of their actions is necessary to make him feel more shunned, but that perspective is (purposely) flawed, and it makes everyone else seem like jackasses, especially John. How long will a reader trust that this is a skewed viewpoint of John (who is in fact acting unkindly, but not nearly to the extent Rodney is seeing) and not me as a writer bashing John? I'm still fighting this one. (In part, the problem is that I like everyone to get along. So if I switched to Teyla or John, I'd be explaining why they're acting the ways they are, and establishing how some actions aren't as harsh as they seem ... and then fighting the problem that Rodney obviously doesn't understand them, so why won't he try and why won't anyone stop and talk to him, blah blah blah. I find conflict easier to write if I'm only portraying it from one angle, I think, even though I make sure to work it out from all angles so that what we see makes sense for everyone, even if one character's interpretations don't.)

tl;dr: POV matters hugely to me, and some stories work best from only one POV, but so long as the story sets expectations and then follows its own rules (and doesn't switch mid-paragraph or, preferably, mid-scene without a clear break), I'm happy with switching because different POVs can enrich the story.

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

There are obviously exceptions to my rule (some story tropes like bodyswap making switching POV almost necessary because the fun is seeing how each character reacts to the situation), but for the most part, I prefer to read close 3rd same POV throughout a story. And that's almost invariably what I write.

[sholio]

It's interesting that you bring up bodyswap, because we just watched the latest episode of Supernatural, which is a bodyswap ep, and watching that with my mind buzzing around POV issues was interesting! It made me think about why it is that sometimes the TV convention of showing the actor as the swapped character works for me, and sometimes it doesn't -- whether or not it works has largely to do with whose POV I feel like I'm witnessing in the episode. For example, the SGA ep "Identity" worked great -- you are in the swapped character's POV, and you experience things along with her, including the confusion as to what's happening to her. Whereas in this SPN episode, there were times when it was working, and other times -- when we were pretty obviously seeing things from one of the outside characters' viewpoints -- that I just found it jarring and unpleasant to be seeing the "wrong" actor in the role.

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I do get really bothered if point of view changes suddenly and without warning. If the story has been set up with two or three characters' points of view alternating, I'm fine. If I suddenly get a different point of view near the end, I'm not fine. And when it slides from one character's head into another's during a scene, I tend to get lost first—have I been misreading the scene?—then annoyed, because I reread the scene, find it wasn't me, and by that point am totally out of the story.

I see it a lot in fanfic, but it's something I very rarely comment upon, because I know I've slipped myself. I think my wonderful beta redbyrd_sgfic has kept those errors out of the SG-1 and some SGA stories I have posted; she has made me far more sensitive to the issue (which is part of why it's such a big deal to me now). (And no diss on my other betas—I hope Redbyrd trained me out of these slippages fairly well before I began bugging the others!)

I have noticed it in your fic, but only rarely (and I can't now remember where); you are the kind of writer who is so very good that I might comment on it if I felt you did it much, because there's little other constructive criticism I can make; you're such a good writer!

I had a real struggle with my Atlantis story "The Unrelenting Past": I had it outlined in my head as a Carson story. Carson is at the heart of much of the action, his character was the one really thinking things through and growing in the situation, and I started writing from his point of view.

And the partial draft failed, because I had scenes that I had to write in which Carson wasn't present. So I thought long and hard (I spent months on this story) not only about who would be there, but about who would be there who might also have a conflict, because if I was introducing a second point of view, I figured I ought to make good use of it! So I decided that not only would John be in all the crucial scenes where Carson was absent, but I did have a conflict for him: that surprised me greatly, because, no offense to all the John-fans out there, he's not one of my favorites, and I prefer him in a supporting role or as a foil.

So I had to rewrite the story I'd begun, not only changing some scenes from Carson's point of view to John's so that there would be some balance and not 80% Carson, 20% or less John; I had to weave in a whole secondary conflict.

I think it's a much stronger story as a result. I'm very pleased with it. It's not one of my most-read or most-complimented stories, but it was fascinating (if difficult) to work through, and I remain very happy with it.

I'm also currently working my way through a series of Primeval fics using different points of view, and I'm still working on balance in those. I somehow managed to conceived of an arc that seems to be about five stories long and some need different characters' points of views followed than others!

I also once deliberately wrote a story in first-person point of view because it's not my preferred form, and I wanted to experiment and grow as a writer. So I wrote "Charades", an SG-1 team story with a heavier focus on Sam and Daniel, from Sam's point of view.

Afterwards, I read in posts unrelated to my story that I have at least two friends who strongly dislike first-person stories and indeed will not generally read them. Ouch! I think part of the reason was that at least one felt like that was a claim (intentional or not) by the author to have better access to the narrating character's mind than other people did. I never thought of it that way (and still don't), though I guess I can see how they feel. At least one of those friends is a huge Sam fan—and as far as I know has never read this story of mine, and probably never will. So my attempt to stretch as a writer backfired in a way. I don't regret experimenting with first person, and I'm pleased with this story too. I do wish people wouldn't decide not to read it purely because I wrote it in first person.

[sholio]

I have noticed it in your fic, but only rarely (and I can't now remember where); you are the kind of writer who is so very good that I might comment on it if I felt you did it much, because there's little other constructive criticism I can make; you're such a good writer!

Well, thanks. :) I do appreciate the compliment, but at the same time I kinda wish someone had mentioned it at some point, because it does feel a bit like I've been walking around with my underwear showing. This isn't at all a criticism of you for not mentioning it; it's just that I wasn't sure if anyone else *had* noticed, or if a bunch of readers were gritting their teeth and reading onwards, or giving up on my fic completely because of it ... I just don't know! Hence this post, I guess...


I don't regret experimenting with first person, and I'm pleased with this story too. I do wish people wouldn't decide not to read it purely because I wrote it in first person.

I do think this is a canon-by-canon thing, though. In some fandoms, you get a lot of first-person fic. Stargateverse fic tends to be almost exclusively third person; it doesn't mean no one can write it, but you probably do alienate some readers by doing so. (There was a counter-example above -- wneleh mentions being thrown by third-person narration in a Sherlock Holmes story, where first-person narration is the norm.)

It's interesting (and useful!) to hear about other people's struggles with POV. *g* I think your description of the problems you were having with the Carson story closely parallel some of my issues with the Carter story, because she's really the fulcrum for the plot, and most of the character development is hers -- but there are scenes that she couldn't possibly witness, which is leaving me floundering trying to figure out how to develop the story without leaving her viewpoint, and if I do, whose to jump into.

[rheanna27.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think fanfic is *less* forgiving than profic in some ways. When I was a little baby fangirl, I was 'brought up' in fic to think that it's flat-out wrong to switch POVs mid-scene, but it happens a lot in published fic -- and it annoys me when I see it in profic in a way that I know it wouldn't if I weren't involved in fandom. I was reading Audrey Niffenegger's latest book, Her Fearful Symmetry, and she switches POVs on the very first page -- the opening POV is a dying woman in hospital, and a couple of paragraphs later we switch to the POV of her lover, who is in the room with her. If a fic opened like that, I'd hit the back button on my browser at that point. I don't, for the record, think that changing POVs is in fact 'wrong', because I don't think there's anything in writing that's actually WRONG: you can do anything, the question is how well you do it. POV switches in fic often ping as 'wrong' because more often than not they are not a conscious choice of the writer but a sign that the prose is not fully under the writer's control. A POV switch could be fine where it's clear that it's been a conscious choice on the part of the writer, in order to achieve a specific effect.

In SGA, all my longer fics have been from a single character's POV (mostly Sheppard's). In fact, I've seen that so much in SGA fic I'd almost call it a fandom house style. My own view (and this is an incredibly generalised statement, sorry) is that if the focus of a story is on a relationship -- platonic or romantic -- then the narrative probably falls more naturally to the POV of a single character, because what will be driving the story forward is that character's interactions with another character or characters, and the resolution of the dramatic tension in the story is more likely to hinge on a character realising something about a relationship. Where the story is more driven by plot, then you very quickly start to need more than one POV character, because you're more likely to have situations where, in order to tell the story, you need to have different characters doing different things and finding out different stuff.

The longest story I ever wrote solo was a novel length BSG fic that had a fairly involved action/drama plot and also a het pairing. I had four POV characters (Lee Adama, Kara Thrace, Baltar and Cmdr Adama), who were the four characters who went through their own arcs over the course of the novel. Laura Roslin had a fairly prominent role, but I didn't make her a POV character at any point because everything she did in the story served the plot -- she wasn't any different at the end than the beginning, whereas my four POV characters were (boy, were they ever). Having a group of POV characters kept the writing experience more varied and interesting, which was important in helping to keep me motivated when writing something that long. And, additionally, I was able to draw parallels between the four main characters. For example, each of them, in the story, had some variation on the line "I thought I could do it, but I can't" -- they all had to do something which they initially thought they could but eventually realised they couldn't. Multiple POV characters starts giving you a lot of fun opportunities to do things like that.

The most interesting thing that happened was that at the beginning I only had Baltar as a POV character because that was necessary for the story I wanted to tell -- I wasn't really all that interested in him in canon. But writing in his POV forced me to think about who he was and his motivations, and by the end I came to really enjoy writing his parts, charming little weasel that he was. I think it's the one time that writing in a character's POV has actually changed how I think about them.

[sholio]

In SGA, all my longer fics have been from a single character's POV (mostly Sheppard's). In fact, I've seen that so much in SGA fic I'd almost call it a fandom house style.

I suggested above in a comment to trobadora that maybe this is a gen vs. ship/slash thing. It seems to be generally true across fandoms (based on the fandoms I've been in, obviously *g*) that rotating POV is the norm in long gen. But SGA is the only fandom in which I've extensively read slash, so I'd assumed that sticking to one POV is a slash/ship norm, whereas it might just be a hallmark of SGA slash. (I can definitely vouch that gen in SGA tends towards POV-switching -- not all of it, but the majority.)

This would fit nicely with your driven by character vs. driven by plot divide, because all of the long gen that I can think of off the top of my head that *does* stay in one character's head for 60 or 90 thousand words is concerned largely with developing that character, whereas the majority of gen leans in a more plot-driven direction.

[sgafan.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.. the old POV discussion, one of my favorites. Lots of interesting comments here, but I’ll throw mine in too, for whatever it might or might not be worth… ;)

I switch POV’s in my fics more often than not, especially the longer ones. I find it adds to the story’s richness to see it from more than one perspective. But that being said, as a cardinal rule I do NOT switch in the middle of a scene. When I read fics that switch in the middle of a scene, it pulls me right out of the story because no matter how you do it, it's abrupt. If I find myself drifting towards another character in a scene, then I re-evaluate if I should be telling that scene from the POV of character A or character B. But also, I don’t switch just because it’s getting hard to tell in one person’s POV. The challenge, I’ve found, sometimes results in *really* good stuff (even if I’ve pulled my hair out to get to that point) and I don’t often retool a scene to change POV, unless it just absolutely has to be changed.

A lot of times, when I start a scene, I’ll stop and think about exactly what I want to accomplish with that scene, and then who’s POV not only best fits that, but also is the most natural transition from the previous scene, especially if you have multiple locations like a scene off-world, then on Atlantis, then back to off-world again, a POV switch could work well there if necessary. Or not. Depends on the story. (good grief, that's totally NOT helpful! LOL)

As for swapping POV’s in a story, as long as it isn’t done mid scene, it doesn’t bother me too much if the switch makes sense. But, it also depends on the story. If it’s a one off, short “missing scene” type story where it really is just one scene or a single setting, then I think it’s best done in only on POV. Whereas multi-scene, multifaceted stories are different and I think enriched by more POV’s. And of course, if you have different plot lines going on, logistically you have to switch POV’s if one of your characters literally isn’t present in that scene. ;) A lot of it comes down to writer instinct, as does a lot of things about writing ;) You have fantastic instincts, so I'm sure your story is going to turn out wonderfully. ;)

The most memorable POV story I have was in a different fandom when I was a new writer. I wrote a particularly emotionally tense scene and had my beta reader look at it. I wrote it in my default muse’s POV and she came back to me and asked me to try something: Try writing it in character B’s POV. I tried it and the scene was 100 times better. From that point forward, I’ve always paid attention to what I wanted to accomplish in a scene and what character’s POV best suits it.

[sholio]

A lot of times, when I start a scene, I’ll stop and think about exactly what I want to accomplish with that scene, and then who’s POV not only best fits that, but also is the most natural transition from the previous scene, especially if you have multiple locations like a scene off-world, then on Atlantis, then back to off-world again, a POV switch could work well there if necessary. Or not. Depends on the story. (good grief, that's totally NOT helpful! LOL)

Heh, no, it actually *is* helpful, because I think you've got a good point that some viewpoints transition logically into others, and some don't. Sometimes there are plot reasons why you need to go back and see what's happening on Atlantis; sometimes, it's just an awkward interruption in the flow of the story. So, yeah, I agree! And thanks! :)

[kristen999.livejournal.com]

I think determining how many POVs to use or whose, always comes down to the story.

When I write a team story that if filled with plot changes I try to rotating between each character, however, I always do it in the same order like A,B,C,D and attempt to keep around the same number of pages per POV. Longer stories, I try to do one chapter, one POV. If not, I'll begin a rotation that makes sense.

Fics with only two character POVs, my rule of thumb is an overall balance because I might not always split a chapter, I might bookend thinks like ABA.

I get annoyed when I see POV switches within the same scene; it causes me to lose focus. I used to skip stories when I saw a floating POV, but have tried to be more forgiving.

I read a recent BIG Bang story where the POV switched between three team members throughout the story and constantly skipped one of them and for me that was very jarring. I understand if you're not good writing from character XYZ, but if you're going to do the rest of the team, then do all four.

However, for deep character stories I think a single POV is important to notice subtle changes in thought processes or emotion. In "Imago" I wrote all 50k from John's in order to immerse the reader in what was happening to him. If, I started doing a team type switch, I think the intensity of John's situation would have been lost.

If you're trying to set a 'tone', than sticking to one character POV, even for a team story might work best. In "The Sting" I kept to Rodney's POV since I was going for this "I can't believe we're running around in costumes pretending to be badass attitude, and I think the quirkiness of that fic was meant for his view point.

I guess in short, it depends on the objective of the story and what the author is trying to achieve. And if you’re OCD like me, if you do multi POV, than it needs to follow an order to balance it out.

[sholio]

I read a recent BIG Bang story where the POV switched between three team members throughout the story and constantly skipped one of them and for me that was very jarring. I understand if you're not good writing from character XYZ, but if you're going to do the rest of the team, then do all four.

Oog, I can see how that could be awkward, and potentially very alienating to fans of the character who was left out. Although ... I can also imagine that under some conditions it might be useful and necessary not to include all the POVs in the group. It's a tough decision.

In my sga_santa fic (the John, Jennifer & Rodney one) I generally tried to rotate between the characters in a regular order; I think that there were a couple of scenes where I diverged from the pattern because it worked better for the narrative, but generally I tried not to switch back to one of the three narrators before we'd heard from the other two.

I dislike floating POV myself (good way to put it, btw!), which was why I was so startled to realize that I'd done it! Heh. I thought I knew better, but obviously not!

[leesa_perrie]

POV for me works whether you use one character's through the whole story, or if you switch it about. I've never noticed the changes in POVs in your stories before - though I suppose it might seem odd if they majority of the fic is one person's POV and then it switches *shrugs* I'm not sure.

Myself, I tend to switch about in a fairly random fashion (except in a few cases, such as Sport of Kings) - though I do have one fic that - if it ever gets finished - I'm hoping to do all from Rodney's POV. But then, I have no intention of being a pro writer and just write for my own pleasure!!

I don't suppose the above helps much. Sorry!

[sholio]

It's interesting to hear from a variety of viewpoints -- no pun intended! *g* And I really do think that for fanfic, personal pleasure is a totally legitimate reason to write; I've been a great deal less invested in fun and more focused on the writing craft lately, but I think in some ways my writing has suffered for it. The stories that were the most fun to write are often those the reader responds to most favorably, as well.

[vain-glorious.livejournal.com]

I suspect you might be on to something with POV differences in gen/slash. The switching is definitely more common in longer gen fic.

Personally, I prefer tight 3rd consistent, and I generally write that, too.

I feel like POV switching is...cheap...mostly because I require the author (including myself) to be able to accomplish the fic through the experiences/perspective of one character. I think I also like the potential for unreliable/uninformed narrator, which I feel is lost somewhat in multi-POV usage.

That said, I totally think multi-POV can work as long as it doesn't appear that the author switched for, as you say, purely mechanical purposes.

I'm struggling with a similar issue right now with an SGA fic where I don't know if I can (or if I want to) sustain the Rodney POV for the whole thing.

[sholio]

I love unreliable narrator stories. It's hard to maintain over a long story, though, without running the risk of alienating the reader or becoming manipulative. (Which obviously is not to say that it can't be done, of course! Just that it's easier to do in a shorter story than a longer one.)

I think it's very easy for a writer, especially a beginning writer, to use multiple POVs as a crutch -- which is ironic, since in a lot of ways I think it's actually *harder* to write (okay, caveat: to write well!) than a single POV. But some stories require it, and I often tend to find a rotating POV more satisfying as a reader (strictly personal choice, I know!) because it gives me more insight into each of the characters rather than just one, and I tend to be an ensemble kind of reader.

One interesting narrative trick that Roger Zelazny used in his first-person Amber books was to occasionally allow a character to temporarily become the viewpoint character by having them narrate their own experiences to the main character, for a chapter or two. It's a technique that wears out its welcome quickly, however ...

[starwatcher]

.
I actually expect POV changes, especially in a long story. So much goes on in a story that, as you say, you lose important info if you restrict yourself to one POV. It can be done, certainly, but it's a different story.

I think about "Epiphany", for example, as we switch back and forth between what's happening to John, and the rescue attempts on the outside. Having both sets of viewpoints makes a fully-fleshed story.

That said, I prefer each scene to be a single viewpoint, if possible - although, as others have said, switching POV can work if done well.

I also think that the sections of different POV don't necessarily need to be similar in length. The story should dictate what it needs. It can be perfectly acceptable to have two pages of X's POV, followed by a half page of Y's input.

Really, if one POV works for 80% of a story, and POVs from two others works for the other 20% of the story, I see nothing wrong with that.
.

[sholio]

I do think it's possible to tell almost any story (any sequence of events, anyway) from any POV or combination of POVs, but it becomes a totally different story when you do. Epiphany from John's POV would have been a different story and a much more mysterious one, since we (as John) would have no idea what was going on. Ditto for telling it exclusively from the POV of Rodney & co., since they'd have no way of knowing how John was doing or if he was even alive.

I was really enjoying the mystery in season three's "Real World" until they switched viewpoints in the middle of the episode to show us the team and Carson dealing with Elizabeth's nanites. Suddenly the tension collapsed like a punctured balloon, because you knew exactly what was going on. Drove me nuts. *g*

So I'm trying to be cognizant of that as I write; just because I really want to show what's going on with a given set of characters, doesn't mean it's a necessarily a good idea for the story if I do so. (As dreamingoctober pointed out above, it's always possible to tell those extra stories in the form of side stories, if they really must be told!)

[frith_in_thorns]

No idea if I'm enough of a writer yet to leave opinions on these sort of posts, but I thought I'd give it a try anyway :)

Personally I have no problem with multiple POVs, and actually consider it the norm, as long as they don't interfere with the story, and switch at clearly-definied breaks. (I've never switched in a paragraph, but I confess that I've unintentionally switched POV between two paragraphs in the same section before.) I tend to choose them based on which character I want to tell each part of the story, based on things which they can observe in their own specific way, and sometimes the things which they know. And the POV choices are important, because they influence the impression which the reader gets.

Actually, I've never consciously tried to make sure that characters get the same 'screen-time' of their POVs - I've just know that I want this bit to be told by Rodney, and this bit by Teyla etc. Probably I should think about that in future.