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SGA 4x10: This Mortal Coil
... hmmm.
Main thought upon finishing the episode ... THAT'S the mid-season cliffhanger? Not much of one, really. There are lots of Replicator ships out there. Uh ... we knew that already! I don't think I've been really, truly disappointed in an SGA cliffhanger before, but this one -- uh. Yeah. I was expecting more. Lots more.
Okay. The good (probably not everything squeeful, and I'm sure I'll remember more later, but all that's coming to mind at the moment) :
- Rodney's scene with Radek at the end ... and how he thanks Radek for worrying about him. Awww! Coming right on the heels of his little speech about Carson and Elizabeth, it was just a nice reminder that he really is learning from his mistakes and trying to be a better friend.
- THEY HAVE A READING LIBRARY! I love it. And they don't really have to explain it, because it's Atlantis and they're in another galaxy and it's perfectly obvious that this is the equivalent of the shelf in the college dorm (at least, my dorm had one) where everyone brings their old paperbacks and leaves them for someone else -- or, in this case, probably lots of issues of old scientific journals and dog-eared copies of Gun&Ammo and Tom Clancy novels, but still! They have one! In canon! *loves*
- The team's interactions with their doubles -- the two Rodneys going into "argue about science" mode, the two Sheppards looking exasperated, and especially the two Ronon-and-Teyla combos coming upon each other while bitching about their doubles in the woods. HEEEEEEEE. (And they remembered to cover up Ronon's tattoo! Go them!)
- Continuity with past episodes. Lots of it! They remembered the retrovirus! And they got the Season 3 uniforms right (a detail I didn't pick up on until the "real" team showed up, incidentally). And they mentioned Carson, and Rodney's still having trouble dealing with it. All in all, good job on the continuity.
- Cool f/x as Atlantis blows up. And the jumper catching a ride into hyperspace. Nice!
- Elizabeth. Sadly, she's always been kind of low on my main character squee list, although it's mostly a process-of-elimination thing because the rest of them make me squee so hard. I've always adored Torri, but Elizabeth, not so much. Which makes it very sad that she actually had to leave the show to really make me appreciate her -- her quiet dignity, her self-possession, her rapport with John. I loved seeing her here. I just wish she'd had a better plot. Which brings me to ...
The bad:
- Oh heavens, THE PLOT. About five minutes into the episode, I turned to my partner and said, "They're all Replicators." Hey, I've seen too much SG-1 for that particular twist to still be that much of a twist. But it's really a twist with lots of potential ... except ... AAARGH.
SO. MUCH. TALKING. You'd think I'd enjoy that they spent a bunch of time on dialogue rather than explosions, and I would ... if the dialogue hadn't been so wooden. The middle 20 minutes of the episode was basically just exposition, and clunky exposition. I gotta hand it to the cast, they were all doing the best they could with what they had to work with (especially Jewel Staite, poor thing) but ... OH. They were trying, they really were, but every other line was just stiff and LAME. (And why did we need to see RepliLiz telling the real Sheppard & McKay the whole story AGAIN when we'd just seen it a few minutes before? Give me more real character interaction instead of people standing around telling their life stories, please!)
The switch from inside the cell with Our Replicated Heroes to the shot of the ship lowering over the city broke the fourth wall utterly because up to that point, we'd been in the characters' POV, and then we get this shot of something they cannot possibly see and do not know about yet, and ... GAH! (It especially bugged me, and I noticed it in specific, because in some episodes -- Doppelganger comes to mind here -- the show is fantastically good about staying in the viewpoint characters' POV and showing only what they could see. But not here.)
And then the replay of Carter's vision, practically shot-for-shot. Which I saw coming a mile away. SO PREDICTABLE! HELP! (Which also makes me wonder why the heck the Seer would have shown her a vision that had nothing whatsoever to do with Atlantis? She wasn't even there! She didn't even have a Replicator clone there! It's like, "Hi, I'm a fortune teller, here's a vision of something that has nothing whatsoever to do with you. Have a nice day!" WTF?)
And RepliKeller's painfully predictable death scene just annoyed me. Well, it annoyed me while also making me feel for her, because it's Jewel and Torri, and they're really good. But the utter contrived-ness of it kinda ticked me off. And DO NOT GET ME STARTED on how easily they wrote off the RepliTeam at the end. RepliTeam: "Hey, you guys are real and we're not**, so we're going to go die so you can live." RealTeam: "Sure! Seeya, suckers!"
**despite being living human beings, a point which we've just spent most of the show making. But there's that Earth Logic again.
This DROVE ME NUTS. It drove me nuts because it was just sloppy storytelling, a really easy and predictable way of writing out a potentially sticky plot point. And it drove me doubly nuts because it doesn't say a whole lot about our team, at least not a whole lot that's good, that they're willing to let five people (including the last living vestige of Elizabeth in the galaxy) die so that they can escape. And it drove me TRIPLY nuts because RepliTeam are supposed to be Our Heroes through and through (you know, stubborn? persistent? never-say-die?) and yet they're all five willing to throw away their very real lives to let the "real" team get away? Plus, quadruply nuts, because ... SO MANY INTERESTING FANTASY POSSIBILITIES (re: Jack's teenage clone on SG-1) with the RepliTeam making a new life for themselves somewhere else, thrown away on a stupid plot contrivance.
And, yeah, I am well aware that the Replicator goon squad were wielding stunners, which means we might see the RepliTeam in the second half of this alleged "two-parter" (Jan. 4! Yay! I am so there!). But this is where this episode wrapped up, and that final scene with the crashed jumper is all we have to work with right now, and I am ANNOYED.
(And, on a purely personal matter, I am ALSO annoyed because we still haven't seen Teyla tell her team about her pregnancy yet, and she is so obviously pregnant by this point that I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it really IS going to happen off camera and cheat us of that scene. No! Please!)
Okay, ranting over. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. *g*
Main thought upon finishing the episode ... THAT'S the mid-season cliffhanger? Not much of one, really. There are lots of Replicator ships out there. Uh ... we knew that already! I don't think I've been really, truly disappointed in an SGA cliffhanger before, but this one -- uh. Yeah. I was expecting more. Lots more.
Okay. The good (probably not everything squeeful, and I'm sure I'll remember more later, but all that's coming to mind at the moment) :
- Rodney's scene with Radek at the end ... and how he thanks Radek for worrying about him. Awww! Coming right on the heels of his little speech about Carson and Elizabeth, it was just a nice reminder that he really is learning from his mistakes and trying to be a better friend.
- THEY HAVE A READING LIBRARY! I love it. And they don't really have to explain it, because it's Atlantis and they're in another galaxy and it's perfectly obvious that this is the equivalent of the shelf in the college dorm (at least, my dorm had one) where everyone brings their old paperbacks and leaves them for someone else -- or, in this case, probably lots of issues of old scientific journals and dog-eared copies of Gun&Ammo and Tom Clancy novels, but still! They have one! In canon! *loves*
- The team's interactions with their doubles -- the two Rodneys going into "argue about science" mode, the two Sheppards looking exasperated, and especially the two Ronon-and-Teyla combos coming upon each other while bitching about their doubles in the woods. HEEEEEEEE. (And they remembered to cover up Ronon's tattoo! Go them!)
- Continuity with past episodes. Lots of it! They remembered the retrovirus! And they got the Season 3 uniforms right (a detail I didn't pick up on until the "real" team showed up, incidentally). And they mentioned Carson, and Rodney's still having trouble dealing with it. All in all, good job on the continuity.
- Cool f/x as Atlantis blows up. And the jumper catching a ride into hyperspace. Nice!
- Elizabeth. Sadly, she's always been kind of low on my main character squee list, although it's mostly a process-of-elimination thing because the rest of them make me squee so hard. I've always adored Torri, but Elizabeth, not so much. Which makes it very sad that she actually had to leave the show to really make me appreciate her -- her quiet dignity, her self-possession, her rapport with John. I loved seeing her here. I just wish she'd had a better plot. Which brings me to ...
The bad:
- Oh heavens, THE PLOT. About five minutes into the episode, I turned to my partner and said, "They're all Replicators." Hey, I've seen too much SG-1 for that particular twist to still be that much of a twist. But it's really a twist with lots of potential ... except ... AAARGH.
SO. MUCH. TALKING. You'd think I'd enjoy that they spent a bunch of time on dialogue rather than explosions, and I would ... if the dialogue hadn't been so wooden. The middle 20 minutes of the episode was basically just exposition, and clunky exposition. I gotta hand it to the cast, they were all doing the best they could with what they had to work with (especially Jewel Staite, poor thing) but ... OH. They were trying, they really were, but every other line was just stiff and LAME. (And why did we need to see RepliLiz telling the real Sheppard & McKay the whole story AGAIN when we'd just seen it a few minutes before? Give me more real character interaction instead of people standing around telling their life stories, please!)
The switch from inside the cell with Our Replicated Heroes to the shot of the ship lowering over the city broke the fourth wall utterly because up to that point, we'd been in the characters' POV, and then we get this shot of something they cannot possibly see and do not know about yet, and ... GAH! (It especially bugged me, and I noticed it in specific, because in some episodes -- Doppelganger comes to mind here -- the show is fantastically good about staying in the viewpoint characters' POV and showing only what they could see. But not here.)
And then the replay of Carter's vision, practically shot-for-shot. Which I saw coming a mile away. SO PREDICTABLE! HELP! (Which also makes me wonder why the heck the Seer would have shown her a vision that had nothing whatsoever to do with Atlantis? She wasn't even there! She didn't even have a Replicator clone there! It's like, "Hi, I'm a fortune teller, here's a vision of something that has nothing whatsoever to do with you. Have a nice day!" WTF?)
And RepliKeller's painfully predictable death scene just annoyed me. Well, it annoyed me while also making me feel for her, because it's Jewel and Torri, and they're really good. But the utter contrived-ness of it kinda ticked me off. And DO NOT GET ME STARTED on how easily they wrote off the RepliTeam at the end. RepliTeam: "Hey, you guys are real and we're not**, so we're going to go die so you can live." RealTeam: "Sure! Seeya, suckers!"
**despite being living human beings, a point which we've just spent most of the show making. But there's that Earth Logic again.
This DROVE ME NUTS. It drove me nuts because it was just sloppy storytelling, a really easy and predictable way of writing out a potentially sticky plot point. And it drove me doubly nuts because it doesn't say a whole lot about our team, at least not a whole lot that's good, that they're willing to let five people (including the last living vestige of Elizabeth in the galaxy) die so that they can escape. And it drove me TRIPLY nuts because RepliTeam are supposed to be Our Heroes through and through (you know, stubborn? persistent? never-say-die?) and yet they're all five willing to throw away their very real lives to let the "real" team get away? Plus, quadruply nuts, because ... SO MANY INTERESTING FANTASY POSSIBILITIES (re: Jack's teenage clone on SG-1) with the RepliTeam making a new life for themselves somewhere else, thrown away on a stupid plot contrivance.
And, yeah, I am well aware that the Replicator goon squad were wielding stunners, which means we might see the RepliTeam in the second half of this alleged "two-parter" (Jan. 4! Yay! I am so there!). But this is where this episode wrapped up, and that final scene with the crashed jumper is all we have to work with right now, and I am ANNOYED.
(And, on a purely personal matter, I am ALSO annoyed because we still haven't seen Teyla tell her team about her pregnancy yet, and she is so obviously pregnant by this point that I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it really IS going to happen off camera and cheat us of that scene. No! Please!)
Okay, ranting over. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. *g*
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They were going to leave the team's point of view anyway, so the shot of the RepliShip didn't bother me--although it might have been more interesting to do the whole episode, until the closing scene, from the RepliTeam's point of view. To me it didn't break the fourth wall at all. I also didn't think the vision was a problem: the Seer saw the Wraith coming to his planet, though he didn't actually see them when they came; he and his people were hiding. I wouldn't say it had nothing to do with Sam or Atlantis.
Yes, I didn't think the team should die--but then again, I'm not positive they did all die. The Replicators might well have kept them alive for study. I didn't think RepliKeller should die either. I wondered why all five needed to be on the Jumper, but then I remembered that they show up as human life signs; the Replicators no doubt scanned the Jumper before they shot it down to be certain they were all on board.
Off to post my own review....
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It bothers me more the more I think about it, too, because the hacked-in explanation for the lack of Carson (using Elizabeth's memories to update the scenario) doesn't really work if the RepliTeam are created using the memories from the scans they did of the team in Progeny. They had to have updated their memories using Elizabeth's memories (judging from the RepliTeam's lack of confusion about the absence of Carson and Elizabeth-in-charge from "their" Atlantis) and that had to have caused some really weird mental conflicts. Surely someone would have noticed that their memories post-Progeny were all screwed up! There's fun fic potential in that, but it didn't make so much sense in the episode.
I did like how they remembered to cover up RepliRonon's tattoo, though.
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Were they? I thought those were anti-Replicator guns--which wouldn't kill this team, just shut down their ability to heal almost instantaneously.
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On the other hand, if they do have anti-Replicator guns they would have had to learn how to replicate them from the Atlanteans using them, which adds to their level of creepiness if they can learn how to replicate something that quickly.
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About the only thing I got any real pleasure out of was the McKay on McKay action *cough*, that is, Rodney talking to himself *g*, Ronon being distrustful of the duplicates including himself, and the Rodney/Radek scene in the end. Also the fact that for once the M&Ms didn't seem to commit any tech canon errors. I had a really hard time believing that Team Sheppard would trust the replicators so immediately just because they said they were good guys and because they were feeling all warm and fuzzy seeing Elizabeth again.
The ending, as you said, was not a very good cliffhanger.
I gave the episode a 'C' because it was average at best. I wish Mallozzi & Mullie wouldn't write episodes for the show. I really, really do.
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So, yeah, I really don't have any problem with plot rehashing as long as the remake is a good, solid episode. Unfortunately, this wasn't. I didn't hate it, and I did have quite a few squee-happy moments here and there (especially the Rodney/Radek scene), but the plot holes really marred it for me. Like with "Travelers", I ended up being vastly disappointed because it could have been such a good episode if they'd thought a few things through.
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Agreed. When people open their mouths, the plot grinds to a halt. I like action in my TV and action in my fic and...this episode was way too chatty.
I was never a fan of Weir or of Torri, so seeing her again didn't buzz me a bit. However, the scene at the end with Zelenka and McKay--now that's why I really love this show. Want good sci-fi? Start with good characters who interact with each other. Which is why the forest scenes with Teyla and Ronon were nice, also.
The beauty of "Tin Man" was telling the story from the fake characters' point of view. We develop sympathy for them and want them to survive because, copies or not, they are just as worthy as the originals. TMC fell on its face with the apparent self-sacrifice of the copies, who, as we know from our experience with "Tin Man" would be all "screw that" if someone suggested they die for their "real" counterparts.
Frankly, if we get cheated out of Teyla telling Sheppard, McKay or Ronon about her pregnancy, I'm going to be very disappointed. She is obviously pregnant and, no matter how she holds her gun, we can tell.
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That's what disappointed me most, I think -- that the copies didn't seem to have any desire for lives and existences of their own. Why the heck not? They're flesh-and-blood humans, and on top of that, they're copied from five stubborn, idiosyncratic, think-outside-the-box people. Obviously the Replicators went wrong somewhere *g*, because I can't imagine how they ended up with a McKay or Ronon or Sheppard who would meekly accept that they have no right to an independent existence simply because they're a clone.
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I know that Joe M had major, major problems with this one, because of all that had to be explained and happen in it, and I think he did a pretty good job overall - though yeah, maybe we didn't need to hear the story twice. And maybe he chose not to let the doubles go live their own life as it would be too similar to that SG1 episode with the androids? Maybe not - perhaps he'll tell us on his blog, he did say he'd do an entry on his thought processes etc.
Oh well, at least there were some great Rodney scenes! The two of them together is just so funny - and the nod to the old uniforms being uncomfortable was great as well - as was the 'genius x 2' bit (and Sheppard's response)!!!
As for the end scenes - oh poor Rodney, he's just not coping too well, is he? But he does thank Radek, showing as you say his attempts to be a better friend - but oh, my heart breaks for him. I love that John turns up and suggests Rodney go to bed (I've written that, how many other fanfic writers have as well, though this is more low key that what I wrote!!) - and again, heart breaking time.
Personally, I love the ending, but then I'm not that keen on cliffhangers! This was a more subtle approach than we've seen before and I kinda of like it, but I can get how some might be disappointed with it. Still, I hear that the season finale has a cliffhanger to top all season cliffhangers so far for Atlantis...!
Oh, and from comments Joe M made a while back, there is a scene with Rodney and Teyla about the pregnancy coming up sometime, though it does seem an awfully long time coming! (Hope that isn't a spoiler, sorry if it is.)
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There were some good bits I will agree, but this episode was a bit of a letdown - particularly after last weeks Miller Crossing. The real problem is that this was the mid-season finale. Just a regular old episode it might not have been so bad...but an episode that was suppose to be a cliffhanger?
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However, the thought just occurred to me that we know the experiment has been repeated on other worlds ... I'm tempted by the idea of writing a different version of the RepliTeam that managed to escape more successfully.
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First of all - um. In my head, the RepliTeam will be dead when we see their cold dead bodies get burned, and their ashes scattered on the wind! In other words - I will be pissed if that happens in canon, but as it were, I was just waiting for Ronon to stand up behind the replicator pointing the gun at Sheppard! Then all of them would kick some Replicator ass, steal the Replicators' ship (possibly the ship the patrol came down in - they don't have beaming tech, do they?), and fly off into the sunset. That is what happened. You cannot convince me it's not, because it would make me SAD. And very, very annoyed. And it would make no sense!
Sadly, the above denial only half-works. But seriously - until they're killed off in a more final way in canon, the writers really could bring them back again. Which would be great. I loved the RepliTeam, even if I figured the whole thing out in the first five minutes. (The old uniform, and then they even used an old exterior shot I haven't seen for a long time - plus I've read fic where they think they're real, but are in fact replicators, so~ I was kind of prepared for that twist. ^___^)
What really bugs me right now is that, again - they SUCK at writing Teyla. Even when she's right there, it's like - GAH. I swear, the reason why Teyla is the only one who doesn't exchange any lines or anything with her own double (at least not one-on-one like the others) is because JM doesn't really have a clue how Teyla would behave. There's nothing instantly Teyla-like for her to do, because they just don't give her those moments. I absolutely loved what they did with John and Rodney and Ronon, and their interactions with their doubles and each other, but Teyla... what? What's her reaction to seeing herself, pre-baby, pre-Missing? What's her reaction to seeing Elizabeth? The two of them were close, and so much has happened, but - no, the guys get the good lines and the emotional scenes and Teyla gets the short end of the stick, and right now I'm just letting off steam, and maybe I should go do that in my own journal? ^^;; Because - um. I really liked this episode, so... It's not blind hate, it's just - the culmination of a lot of frustration, including the frustration that Teyla's pregnancy still hasn't come up with the others on-screen, and I'm going to be so very ticked off if we don't get to see the reveal!
The Seer's prediction showing something completely unrelated to Sam... On one hand, it really doesn't make sense. On the other, he asked for "the leader of these people", so that he could show her what he had seen of the fate of the city. It wasn't her prophecy at all - he never said that. It was something he'd seen, and probably only made sense of once he got to see Atlantis. So in that context, it actually makes sense. Dramatically, though? Meh. Waiting two eps for the "big reveal" after all that setup? That's a bit too short.
What I liked about this episode was the emotional part - I really loved the creepy tension and the team drawing together in RepliLantis, trying to figure out what the hell was going on. I loved Ronon and John (duplicates or not, they're still Ronon and John!) sparring, and then the five of them being so determined to help Atlantis, even if they themselves won't ever be able to go home there. I loved Zelenka talking to Rodney, and Rodney thanking him, and then John coming to check up on him. Patting him on the back! Because they're dealing with so much loss, and all of this tore open so many wounds that have barely started to scab, much less heal... And I do love the idea of a RepliTeam, somewhere out there, fighting the good fight.
There's more, but I'm probably forgetting it in my stunned "no cliffhanger" reaction. Because - yeah. What happened to the cliffhanger? (Though I won't complain, since this will make the waiting easier, and won't lead to any disappointments a la magically disappearing Ancients in Return!)
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I'm starting to feel so bad for Rachel Luttrell when there's a group scene and she basically gets "wallpapered" into the background. There were several scenes like that in this episode.
The one thing I think they did right with Teyla in this episode is that, once again, they subtly implied that she's pretty knowledgable about science and technology. She and John didn't even discuss it before she just went over and started operating the medical scanner while he lay down. Presumably this means that she's better at such things than he is, and he knows it. And she's the one who realized that the different stars would have tipped them off that they weren't on the real Lantea (which is very astute; I certainly hadn't thought of that).
The emotional and team stuff was really well done, though -- I keep thinking of little moments that I really liked (including that bit at the end with John coming to check up on Rodney and patting his back ... awwww!). It's really nice to see that they're drawing closer together as the stakes get higher and people keep dying; you could so easily see someone like Rodney or John pulling back, closing themselves off, after losing not one but two close friends in rapid succession, but instead they're going out of their way to look out for each other and show how much they mean to each other. They're still a sweet and adorable little family-of-circumstance, and I'm happy for that.
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Still, though I too felt the ending was poor, I wasn't bothered by the plot. I didn't even really notice the wooden dialogue. Maybe I was too focused on our four teammates -- I just loved their total love for each other (and complete trust), even after they realized they were the NotTeam (only took them one week!). Plus, there were other things I just adored too much to dislike the ep -- basically everything you said in your "goods" up above. And, you know, I really think that just goes to show how good the *acting* is on this show. They really transcend the material.
My saddest thing was Elizabeth. I didn't realize that I'd missed her until I saw her again, then, yes, I felt the hole she left. Really felt it. And I think Sheppard and McKay did too. If anything came across in this episode better than anything else, I'd have to say it was that.
I also agree totally on the Seer's vision. Naye's probably got the right of it, but it still bugs me.
What bugs me is that they have yet to replicate the fantasticness of the Storm. Why was that cliffhanger so good? And why haven't they been able to do it again?
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I was re-watching Storm not too long ago, and was struck all over again by what a fantastic episode it was in pretty much every way. Of course, I watched Storm and Eye back-to-back, so I didn't get the full cliffhanger effect. I loved the season 3 cliffhanger -- and by "loved", of course, I mean "flailed in frustration a lot", but it was a really good cliffhanger; at least I thought so. This wasn't even a cliffhanger at all!
As usual, my negative reaction has faded a bit now that I've had a chance to let the episode settle for a while. It really did have some fantastic team and character moments. And vulnerable Rodney at the end breaks my heart...
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"Hey, you guys are real and we're not**, so we're going to go die so you can live." RealTeam: "Sure! Seeya, suckers!"
This DROVE ME NUTS.
YES ME TOO. I mean, with the Tin Men in SG-1 at least there was the angst about them not being human and not being able to stay away from the power generator for too long. Here, they just decided to give up their lives in the stupidest possible fashion? WTF?
But on the reverse side of that: what about oh I don't know, jumping through a few gates so the Replicators can't trace you before setting of on a long stroll through the lushy green forest? How about not putting the "real" team in danger in the first place? Most of the time when these guys were imprisoned I was afraid they would be stupid enough to gate right back into Atlantis with all those nanobots in their bodies.
Anyway, I don't want to go on. *g*
Except, re: Teyla's pregnanacy, I'm worried it'll happen in a flashback!
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But I agree with you about Teyla and Elizabeth not getting enough interaction. I try not to think about it too much, because they get SO CLOSE to doing things right, and then just miss.
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And ditto re Teyla. I couldn't believe they still aren't acknowledging her pregnancy. Plausibly, how can the rest of the team not have noticed? It makes no sense.
I did love the Radek and Rodney scene though. Yay for Radek, and it says so much that Rodney actually thanked him. And seeing Elizabeth again was good, even though I was not a huge fan of her character before - it was nice to see how well she fits with the rest of the team, the rapport she has. It made me realise that the show's missed her character and the role she plays.
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I honestly don't mind them remaking SG-1 episodes (which are, themselves, mostly remakes of older sci-fi plots) as long as they do it well. I don't mind that this episode ripped off SG-1; I mind that it did it badly. And I fully agree with you about the first segment being much too long. You've got to take your viewers' savviness into account, and I imagine that most regular viewers twigged very quickly to what was happening.
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As for the plot - yes, it was obvious very early that it wasn't the real Atlantis, but I don't think they were trying to keep that hidden for a big "reveal." And yes, it's been done before, but it's a standard staple of all sci-fi, so it was inevitable that SGA would get to it (especially given the nature of the replicators). To not duplicate some or all of the team at some point might have felt even stranger to me.
Didn't even blink at seeing the ship - the POVness of the episode was not so obvious to me that a shift was jarring. Didn't bat an eye at all the talkiness either.
I had no preconceptions about this episode, so I wasn't expecting a whiz-bang Siege II sort of thing. It was just a nice, basic episode that extended the current through plot.
I do agree, however, that the offer of the spare team to serve as decoys was handled somewhat cavalierly. However, I don't think we're meant to believe they are all dead except Sheppard (the others should heal too). And think about it from their POV - they're still essentially our heroes - they would choose to take a risk to save others and would probably assume they could do some damage and/or escape later. It just would have been nice to see a brief argument between the two groups about which ones should be the diversion....
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I don't think I'd mind the sacrifice of the RepliTeam nearly as much if we'd gotten to see more of what went into their decision. As it is, we saw so little of it that the general impression is that they simply decided to throw their lives away for "our" team, and I can't understand why they'd do that. If it is, as you said, the canon characters' self-sacrificing tendencies coming to the fore, then why didn't "our" team offer to sacrifice themselves so the RepliTeam could get away? They were, after all, kinda responsible for the RepliTeam existing in the first place. I'd loved to have seen 2 versions of John arguing about who gets to be the kamikaze! Or maybe a scene with the RepliTeam on their puddlejumper, asking each other if they really want to do this, all getting on the same page and being willing to die as long as they die together. But we didn't get any of that; if such scenes did occur, they were all off-camera, and I was very frustrated by it. I'd love to have had less exposition earlier for another 10 minutes or so of Repli-Team and RealTeam interactions at the end.
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There were of course grave plotholes, amazingly clunky exposition, and blatant ripping-off of (better) SG-1 episodes, as you mentioned, but, well...it's an M&M episode; I wasn't expecting any better (it's kind of sad that they are the worst writers on the show, discounting a couple one-shots scripts.) There was in fact more cuteness than I was expecting, so overall I came out of it pleased. Also the final scenes of Rodney with Radek and then John are so very touching. And that he thanks Radek, that even in pain he is making the effort, because he's lost so many friends and might be losing more, but he's slowly learning, and oh, Rodney... (SGA is so the Rodney McKay show these days. You won't find me complainin'!)
The only thing that really got me was the completely pointless deaths of the RepliTeam, not just that they were so willing to die, but willing to die for so little reason...why couldn't it have been Sheppard alone piloting that jumper? I'm totally disbelieving that was the real plan, not if the duplicates were one-tenth their real selves. McKay managed to short-circuit the replicator stunners (or whatever those weapons were) (and yes, found a way in 10 minutes, this is Rodney!) and the scene changed just before they jumped the replicators, stole their ship, and went off and fight the good fight on their own terms! Preferably in really snazzy costumes!
...Hey, I ended up fic'ing the SG-1 android team back to life after "Double Jeopardy", because I couldn't take them being gone. A duplicate SGA team, with nanite-superpowers - way too good to pass up! The line for the AU starts here-->
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I think that I would have needed a whole lot more discussion surrounding the deaths of the RepliTeam in order to buy it. Because as it is, both they and "our" team are acting massively OOC simply to further the plot, and I call foul on that.
They could have made it work; they could easily have shortened some of the earlier expository bits to make room for a scene or two where the two teams talk it over and come up with a plan, or a brief scene on the Jumper when the RepliTeam does that mind-meld thing our team does and looks at each other and they all decide to uncloak and give the others a chance to get away even though it probably means their own death.
On the other hand ... you know, thinking about your comment about jumping the Replicators ... it's interesting that we never actually see what happens when RepliJohn gets shot. Maybe this IS their escape plan -- because John doesn't say that they're dead when the real team runs back through the gate, he just says they're not coming. And just because they're sending the real Elizabeth's things back to Earth doesn't necessarily mean they believe RepliLiz is dead. Maybe the RepliTeam stayed behind with the deliberate intent of infiltrating the ship and taking the fight to the Replicators.
... hmmm.
I want the next episode now, because I think I'll like this one much better if it all turns out to be a fake-out (and this show DOES do stuff like that).
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Um but really that was when I was calling foul on the episode. :)
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At the same time, I suspect (well, hope) that they're not completely gone and may be seen again in the second half of the "two-parter".
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And the Repli-team's "sacrifice" was left so open-ended, it left me very worried. I don't think they were killed, I think they would sooner be assimilated and get with the replicator program and I really don't care for a "bad" repli-team-with-Elisabeth running around in the Pegasus galaxy looking like the real thing.
But there were a lot of details I really liked. I caught on to Lorne and Keller's strange behavior pretty quickly, but not to Zelenka's, which - to me - implies that Rodney knows Zelenka *so* well, RepliRodney would know exactly how Zelenka would act and have it down to a tee. So big yay there.
Also Ronon and Teyla's apprehension at meeting their doubles and their conversation about them. They were much more freaked out than Sheppard and McKay, who have been confronted with doubles already at some point. So yay there.
And the scene at the end; how John tells Rodney he packed up Elisabeth's personal belongings to have them shipped to earth (closure!), and Zelenka and Rodney .. awwww!
And similarities with SG-1 I don't care about because I am in blissful ignorance of SG-1. *g*
a/n At least they finally managed to work Carter's lack of appearance into the story line, but seriously, is she ever around? Sheppard and McKay seem more in charge of Atlantis than she is.
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I like your comment about Keller and Lorne acting weird, but not Zelenka, because of spending so much time together. Cool touch!
I really wish they'd mention Carter on the episodes where she's not seen. Mallozzi mentioned on his blog that they didn't want to bring her in for this one, which makes sense as she's only contracted for a certain number of episodes and they didn't want to waste her on one in which she plays no role in the part. But just a throwaway line of dialogue -- McKay mentioning that they need to go debrief her, or ANYTHING. Because, yes, it does leave it feeling like she's not around at all, and in this episode in particular it would have been yet another way of highlighting the difference between the universes.
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Admittedly, I'd had relatively little sleep in the previous 24 hours, driven to Canberra and back, (somehow) found the energy to go to the gym on a Sunday morning and then finally flopped down on the couch in the energy-sapping heat and humidity that was Sydney weather yesterday - after doing the bare minimum of (absolutely necessary to maintain the illusion of civilisation) housework. So, I was kinda... knackered, really.
And my befuddled brain just couldn't seem to get a grip of what the point of what this episode - this MID SEASON FINALE (as scrolled across the screen at one point) actually was.
And so (and I know how utterly lame this sounds) I thought I'd wander over here to what your reaction was - reasoning that since we share a brain so often, maybe I could use yours as a spare while mine was clearly "out of order".
Now, I'm thinking maybe it was the episode and not just my brain refusing to function. I did pick up on Pod!Lorne and Pod!Keller instantly, so I assume that I was meant to. Didn't immediately make the jump to Replicators, but was sure it was something like and hence not surprised when Replicatorization turned out to be the form of Podification used.
I did hope that it was more of a "Our Team" captured and placed in a Pod scenario rather than new replicas of them made. As I'm sure people have said, SG-1 did that way back in their 1st or 2nd season. I was actually mildly amused when Duplicate Teyla said that she had held on to a vague hope of that being the case until she was face to face with her other self - it was exactly my reaction - and so yeah, that was probably deliberately done that way.
And so, yeah, replicas of the team and Elizabeth made. But still, WHAT WAS THE POINT??? I was sort of just settling into an acceptance that this was just a "filler" ep when the scrolling text at the bottom of the screen reminded me that it was the MID SEASON FINALE. W. T. F.
Duplicates made and killed off (apparently - although it was open ended enough for the "twist" to be that they're not actually dead). The Originals get a device that allows them to track the Replicators Aurora class ships. Handy, I s'pose. The "cliffhanger" is that they realise that there are a helluva lot of those ships... 24 hours later I still haven't worked up enough energy to lift my nails to my teeth in an attempt to bite them. I say again - W. T. F. That's it?
I really am flabbergasted because when they made this episode they probably didn't know that they'd be renewed for a new season already. They also didn't know that a WGA strike would also possibly "handicap the competition" in some ways. But IMHO they're bloody lucky on both counts. Coz this - as Mid Season Finale is so very anti-climatic to me.
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Elizabeth? Nice to see her introduced again, but again I couldn't get a handle of what it was supposed to mean. How was it supposed to advance her story? Or was it not meant to advance her story, but to end it instead? Like with Ford after the Hive episode? If that's the case, then I'd have preferred that they didn't bother. I'd rather have the hope that Elizabeth is out there somewhere rather than the "closure" that this provided.
And so, perhaps due to my own sense of denial, I'm refusing to accept both a) that the original was killed earlier (I really don't know why Repli!Keller would lie but I'm assuming she did) and b) that the Duplicate team and Elizabeth were killed in this ep. Pointless waste and I just refuse to buy into it. *cough* And if someone would like to write some fic to that effect, that would be nice. *cough*
But the reactions of John, Rodney and Radek to the death of the original (and in John and Rodney's case meeting and then losing the duplicate) were gorgeous. I did appreciate that.
There were a lot of MOMENTS that I appreciated in this ep, but a collection of nice moments do NOT a Mid Season Finale make! Hmmm... and now I seem to remember having a similar reaction the Supernatural's second season finale too. As did you.
Maybe we are just a little out of step with fandom. I dunno.
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Ehhh, in this case, at least, I don't think we're the only ones. What made me feel a bit weird about the SPN finale was that it seemed like we were the ONLY people not having a squee-fit over it, and for similar reasons. But in this case, while I was actually surprised at the amount of uncritical squee that seems to abound for this episode, there seem to be a lot of people who had similar problems.
And it's not that I begrudge people their squee. But, as you wrote ...
There were a lot of MOMENTS that I appreciated in this ep, but a collection of nice moments do NOT a Mid Season Finale make!
Yes, yes, yes.
And this is true despite that fact that it is basically the "moments" that I watch this show for. I mean, let's face it -- it's really difficult to take SGA seriously a lot of the time. But they can do better, and in fact a lot of the episodes this season have been really, really good, not just squeeful but genuinely good.
Am I asking too much that the mid-season finale should be a high point for the first half of the season? Or at least a really good episode -- on a par with "Tabula Rasa" or "Doppelganger" or "Missing"?
I was mildly surprised that Rodney was so effusively enthusiastic about working with his counterpart - especially, considering his almost instant antipathy to Rod is McKay and Mrs Miller last year.
I hadn't even thought about that. But you know, I think most of the problem with Rod was that he was afraid of being replaced. That wasn't really an issue here -- although it might have become an issue if the double had lived longer.
The more I think about it, though, the more I'm convinced that the RepliTeam aren't really dead. I find it very suspicious that they cut away immediately after showing the Replicator shooting Sheppard. And we never actually saw the two teams discussing just what, exactly, their plan might have been. I'm telling you, it'll go a long way towards redeeming this episode in my mind if it turns out next episode that this actually was a setup for another big chunk of plot involving the duplicates. (Still a lame cliffhanger, but hey, whatever.)
I also really, REALLY hope that this is not the last we ever see of Elizabeth, original or duplicate. Like with the duplicate team, I hope that they have something cool planned for next episode, because otherwise this is a really, really terrible way to kill off a character. Off-camera! Related second-hand! Well, third-hand for our guys, who heard about it from the RepliTeam. With Elizabeth, I'd settle for either RealLiz or a duplicate that's not just going to get killed off immediately. I don't expect her to come back, and I'm not even sure I'd want her to, but I love the idea of duplicate Elizabeth getting to have her own life, kind of like Jack O'Neill's clone did on SG-1. There is so much fic potential in that and no reason at all why her loose end has to be tied up in a neat bow, considering how many other loose ends are unraveling all over the place.
In short, it's not just your brain, it is the episode -- either that, or it's my brain too! *g* I suppose I'll be holding out hope that there's some kind of decent payoff ahead, and in the meantime I'll have all the nifty character moments from this episode and the last few to keep me happy. (Seriously, this season has rocked so far. And it's rocked for all the characters, too! Everybody's taken a turn in the spotlight.)
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(normally I wouldn't be following him about like this but I asked him a question...)
Anyway, he answered someone else's version of the same question thus:
"Thornyrose writes: “Do we get to see Teyla explain her ‘condition” to her teammates, or is that something that will happen offscreen?”
Answer: We will definitely see the reveal onscreen - as well as the ensuing fireworks."
So hopefully that will turn out to be a good thing?
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