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The OTHER thing I've been thinking about lately ...
... during my recent anchorite periods of not socializing on the Internet ...
.... is how remarkably, hilariously bitter I still am about the way White Collar ended.
It's funny because, in the grand scheme of things, I have watched a ton of shows that ended WAY worse than this one did. Actually, it's tough to come up with many examples of shows with endings I actually liked, that I didn't lose interest in before they ever got to the end. There have been a few, but over time, most shows that run longer than a season or two end up disappointing me one way or another.
But it's been a really long time since a show made me feel betrayed the way this one did. I guess it's because, in the case of most of the shows I've watched (and comics I've read, book series, etc), I either quit caring that much by the end, or at the very least I had some inkling that it was probably not going to end in a way I was going to be super happy with. I mean, like, I am incredibly invested in "Saga" right now, but I also FULLY EXPECT that everything I love is going to be destroyed by the end, so at least I'm emotionally prepared for it.
I think the reason why White Collar did such a number on me is because I truly believed that it wasn't going to do that! Everything I'd seen from actor interviews to the early seasons of the show had made me feel like the writers of the show valued the same aspects of the show I did, that the actors were deeply invested in their characters, that everyone riding off into the sunset had to be where it was all going.
And then the way the stupid show ACTUALLY ended made me reassess everything that had gone before, and go "well shit". It's not just that it ended in a way I didn't like; it's that it ended in a way that jossed 90% of my fic, characterization-wise ... ugh, I dunno, it's not just that there's a million things about the ending I don't like (in addition to Kramer basically being right about Neal, the ending of the show also strips out nearly everything I loved most about Peter, too, and I'm STILL annoyed about the name of the stupid kid) -- it's that it made it difficult-to-impossible to ever again write the kind of fic that I used to like writing most, at least without ignoring canon.
And sure, it is entirely possible (and not even hard) to come up with fanwanky explanations that fit the evidence and my previous characterization, but the frustrating thing is, I know I'm doing it -- I'm rewriting it into my own head!AU because I hate what actually happened in canon so much, and I'm just not good at successfully carrying that through into fic. I know it's fake, is the problem. In a way I envy people who can just freeze canon at a certain point in their head and carry on from there. I can't; I've never been able to. (Well, except in the form of "what if" AUs, but there's still retroactive continuity/retcons to be dealt with; I can't just ignore everything that happened past a certain point in the show, at least not for ficcing purposes. I am a great deal better at compartmentalizing stuff I'm not fanfic-fannish about.)
My brain also tends to treat creator word of god, behind-the-scenes stuff, etc. as .... well, maybe not 100% equivalent to canon for characterization purposes, but definitely in there somewhere -- and I know for most people it's not (totally cool, totally fine), but for me it is. So it doesn't work to just say "well, I'm going to disagree with the creator on this point" because my brain will not do that, even if I want it to. (I may eventually be able to get it to do it; I'm not sure. It certainly doesn't happen easily, though.)
So yeah, I could totally write a long post-canon fic that gives everyone closure, and I kind of even want to, but it's going to have to deal with where the show LEFT everything, which is to say NOT HOW I WANTED IT TO END AND WITH EVERYONE TURNING OUT TO BE NOT AT ALL THE PEOPLE I THOUGHT THEY WERE, and I'm still deeply vexed by that.
Bleh. Stupid show. Stupid writers. :P
(I also realize I am being very silly to be this bothered by it. I've just had this stupid show in my head for a long time and it's not easy to rearrange the mental furniture, is all. There's a lot of heavy lifting involved.)
.... is how remarkably, hilariously bitter I still am about the way White Collar ended.
It's funny because, in the grand scheme of things, I have watched a ton of shows that ended WAY worse than this one did. Actually, it's tough to come up with many examples of shows with endings I actually liked, that I didn't lose interest in before they ever got to the end. There have been a few, but over time, most shows that run longer than a season or two end up disappointing me one way or another.
But it's been a really long time since a show made me feel betrayed the way this one did. I guess it's because, in the case of most of the shows I've watched (and comics I've read, book series, etc), I either quit caring that much by the end, or at the very least I had some inkling that it was probably not going to end in a way I was going to be super happy with. I mean, like, I am incredibly invested in "Saga" right now, but I also FULLY EXPECT that everything I love is going to be destroyed by the end, so at least I'm emotionally prepared for it.
I think the reason why White Collar did such a number on me is because I truly believed that it wasn't going to do that! Everything I'd seen from actor interviews to the early seasons of the show had made me feel like the writers of the show valued the same aspects of the show I did, that the actors were deeply invested in their characters, that everyone riding off into the sunset had to be where it was all going.
And then the way the stupid show ACTUALLY ended made me reassess everything that had gone before, and go "well shit". It's not just that it ended in a way I didn't like; it's that it ended in a way that jossed 90% of my fic, characterization-wise ... ugh, I dunno, it's not just that there's a million things about the ending I don't like (in addition to Kramer basically being right about Neal, the ending of the show also strips out nearly everything I loved most about Peter, too, and I'm STILL annoyed about the name of the stupid kid) -- it's that it made it difficult-to-impossible to ever again write the kind of fic that I used to like writing most, at least without ignoring canon.
And sure, it is entirely possible (and not even hard) to come up with fanwanky explanations that fit the evidence and my previous characterization, but the frustrating thing is, I know I'm doing it -- I'm rewriting it into my own head!AU because I hate what actually happened in canon so much, and I'm just not good at successfully carrying that through into fic. I know it's fake, is the problem. In a way I envy people who can just freeze canon at a certain point in their head and carry on from there. I can't; I've never been able to. (Well, except in the form of "what if" AUs, but there's still retroactive continuity/retcons to be dealt with; I can't just ignore everything that happened past a certain point in the show, at least not for ficcing purposes. I am a great deal better at compartmentalizing stuff I'm not fanfic-fannish about.)
My brain also tends to treat creator word of god, behind-the-scenes stuff, etc. as .... well, maybe not 100% equivalent to canon for characterization purposes, but definitely in there somewhere -- and I know for most people it's not (totally cool, totally fine), but for me it is. So it doesn't work to just say "well, I'm going to disagree with the creator on this point" because my brain will not do that, even if I want it to. (I may eventually be able to get it to do it; I'm not sure. It certainly doesn't happen easily, though.)
So yeah, I could totally write a long post-canon fic that gives everyone closure, and I kind of even want to, but it's going to have to deal with where the show LEFT everything, which is to say NOT HOW I WANTED IT TO END AND WITH EVERYONE TURNING OUT TO BE NOT AT ALL THE PEOPLE I THOUGHT THEY WERE, and I'm still deeply vexed by that.
Bleh. Stupid show. Stupid writers. :P
(I also realize I am being very silly to be this bothered by it. I've just had this stupid show in my head for a long time and it's not easy to rearrange the mental furniture, is all. There's a lot of heavy lifting involved.)
SPOILERS
But Stargate has really thrown me some curves, and the PTB and also the tie-in novels have "validated" a ship that is not my ship, and I did not like the finale of SG-1 at all, and so forth. So I really get where you're coming from.
I hope over time you have some peace about it.
I really enjoyed your thoughts in that other post about Neal's motivations.
I was amazed that they had Neal lie to everyone and leave like that, as well. I need to watch the whole of the Season 6 arc again to try to wrap my head around it. I don't think I was as shocked as you are, but I wondered how that would work as I pondered it as a possibility… the "faking his own death" thing, I mean.
Hang in there.
Re: SPOILERS
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Actually, the biggest problem is the last JE’s interviews. Show itself never stated that Neal decided to be a criminal and that’s it. Matt and Tim never said anything about Neal going back to life of crime - and I trust them way more than JE. Matt said he wanted to leave it open-ended, so people could imagine whatever futures they want for this characters. So you can go with whatever interpretation works for you. If Je wanted what he said, it's his problems.
And then the way the stupid show ACTUALLY ended made me reassess everything that had gone before, and go "well shit". It's not just that it ended in a way I didn't like; it's that it ended in a way that jossed 90% of my fic, characterization-wise ... it's that it made it difficult-to-impossible to ever again write the kind of fic that I used to like writing most, at least without ignoring canon.
*hugs* I admit to selfishly not wanting you stop writing them forever. But your characterization is absolutely, 100% canon, and what the show was all about. I’m often rereading lots of your fics to remind myself who these guys really are. Please don’t let JE convince you otherwise! Five years of canon worth more than one episode of fail, right?
And it’s not ignoring CANON; just that last JE’s interviews.
Psychologist guy I’ve mentioned in my blog is adamant that Neal happily diving back into life of crime is total nonsense, as well as Peter happily chasing him again. And it’s not what he saw on screen (not reading the interviews). Knowing it is helping me, at least, maybe it’ll help you too.
Among a dozen people I know, who watched the show but didn’t read bts stuff, not a single one thought Neal went back to life of crime or any other bullshit. From what was shown on screen everyone thought that Neal had to leave to protect his family, and he send them a note as soon as it became safe. And that’s what I’m sticking with: he’s not turned bad, he will return home as soon as he can, and they will live happily ever after. (Anyway, my happy ending is Neal back in New York with his family, not being alone in Paris, even legally consulting for Louvre or whatever. They need to be together, damnit!) And in opinion of psychologist guy, it’s possible and desirable for both.
I get your frustration – I’m like you, it’s important to me to know writers/actors thoughts on the characters, and additional info from interviews is close to canon for me. It’s very hard to convince my brain to ignore it, but I’m sure as hell gonna try. Just so you know, your short post-canon fix-its gave me the catharsis I needed. I think what helped most is that between yours and Frith’s post-final fics my brain time-jumped from a year-long angst to the reunion and happily ever after, with all the pain from that ending fading out and my brain focusing on “they are together and happy now” (Really, if the show *showed* us that reunion, it would be so much easier forget the pain that happened…) The thing is, when I read that everything will be good again, I believe it. Maybe you should write a happy fix-it to believe it too - not a serious in-depth fic dealing with everything, but rather jump a year later and write short fluffy id-fic of what you’d like to see...
Um, please, forgive my babbling. And lots of *hugs* to you. I hope you’ll find a way to deal with it in a positive way.
no subject
Your latest psych-analysis post is actually open in a tab for later commenting! I really appreciate that you've been posting them (and it IS helpful to have independent confirmation from a non-fannish source that PEOPLE DON'T WORK LIKE THAT, DAMMIT). One thing I will hopefully get around to saying over there, too, is that I agree about Peter - I never really saw his ending as that much happier than Neal's. So much of what makes him Peter -- the curiosity and intelligence and delight in puzzle-solving -- has been stripped out of him; all that's left now is a shell of a guy who goes through a regular workday and then goes home.
I also think a reunion in canon would've gone a long way towards fixing the frustration and heartbreak from the separation/death. At least then we'd have some closure and some idea of how the characters might have interacted afterwards, and how they would have gone forward after everything that happened.
I'm really happy you've gotten back some happiness about the show, though. :) I, uh, suspect any fic I might write about the show right now wouldn't be anything you'd want to read. (Everything I've been working on are AUs, anyway.) I actually do want to do a long post-canon fic eventually, but first I think I need to get myself to a mental place where it's not going to end up being the most depressing thing in the history of the fandom.
no subject
Yes, exactly that! But I really think that private practice would be good for him, even besides change of scenery. He believes in system, but I think now he started to see flaws in it, too, and maybe that way he can help people whom system for some reason can’t help, for example. He’ll make sure that justice is served anyway.
I also think a reunion in canon would've gone a long way towards fixing the frustration and heartbreak from the separation/death.
Thinking about the end as not *the end*, but a nasty cliffhanger helps a lot:) Actually, Matt *called* it that – “It ends on a big cliffhanger in truly WC fashion”, something like that – so there. And you know how the cliffhanger were always quickly resolved in the world of WC and everything put back together? :)
After El’s kidnapping I was mentally preparing for Peter being SO ANGRY at Neal, El blaming him too and Neal in the doghouse. But an episode later they were bantering again! I thought Peter would be angry at Neal after stunt in 209 – but there was no such thing! I thought Neal would be pissed at Peter after he accused him of stealing the treasure – but an episode later they are cheerfully treasure-hunting together and enjoying it. Every time, next episode they are all good again, or at least getting there.
I remember pre-S2 Matt and Tim were asked about Neal’s mindstate, and they said “well, we have a light blue skies show, we won’t have him grieving for a half of season, it should stay fun to watch”. And that’s why I liked it! I LOVED that it wasn’t in-depth dealing with consequences, that it stayed light and sunny.
I think right now lots of people are focused on all the (totally unnecessary, grrr!) grief and unhappiness that happened, but I’m not sure that in the *show world* it was supposed to be that much angst, if it makes sense? Remember what happened after S3 mid-final: all fandom supposed it would be LOTS OF ANGST and consequences next and wrote all the long serious fics dealing with all that. In real world it’d probably happened like that, but in the show world the resolution was quick and positive and with everyone staying friends and becoming even closer than before. I kind of think (hope) that might be the case here too. So, the reunion, Neal back in NY and everyone together and happy again, not tons of angst, yep, that’s it:)
Lastly, can I inflict your own quote on you?
It’s from Places for people like us. I really feel that emotionally their post-canon reunion could be like the one in this fic.
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Basically, I totally get it, and am sorry you got side-swiped by a story you thought you could trust.
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... and thank you. :) I really hope I can develop that skill myself, and I'm sorry you're having to in your current shiny-happy-place. :P I can do it adequately enough with things I'm not deeply fannish about (if only by going "well, that sucked, never watching THAT season/movie/etc again" and moving on) but it's a lot harder with things that have burrowed deep into my creative brain.
no subject
but it's a lot harder with things that have burrowed deep into my creative brain.
Yyyup, this. Especially, at least for me, if the source WAS really good/solid to start with - like, the NCIS:LA people burrowed right into my brain, but it was ALWAYS a deeply stupid CBS procedural with inexplicably amazing characters/dynamics, so when it got too stupid for me to stand I was just sort of "welp! let's go play with AUs and filed off serial numbers." Because I always had one foot out the door, even though the chars totally compelled me.
Ones where there's this long run of them Being Great always seem to be harder.
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(To be honest, I think this is one of the big reasons why -- besides just being interested in the creative process from a "studying recipes to learn how to cook" standpoint -- I get into the behind-the-scenes stuff in the first place. It actually does help in a lot of cases to know things like, they really wanted to get Actor X back to reprise his guest role, but the schedule conflicted; it's not that they just forgot about him. Or an early draft dealt with Loose End Z, but the corporate execs nixed it because it was too similar to touchy real-life events. Or whatever. It redeems TPTB about as often as it condemns them, I guess ...)
But yeah, it hits a lot harder when it starts out decent and then goes to hell.
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I really hate it when I'm looking forward to a big ending and I get disappointed. When I look back only a few shows have ended in a way that really left me okay with how it ended: Red Dwarf series ten, Stargate Atlantis (which most fans didn't like the ending for but I thought it was about perfect), Psych, and Monk. Honestly, I don't think any other show ending really comes to mind as a good ending or what I think should have happened.
I expected more from White Collar because USA network usually ends its shows well (Psych and Monk for instance). I trust shows on USA more to not leave me sad at the end. I guess they can't always succeed.
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But, didn't I see something in the early promotional material about how one of the actors basically came up with the way to end the show? In that case, isn't it basically ascended fanon?
...I mean, not that I personally treat canon with any more reverence than fanon I really enjoy anyway, but.
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... yeah, supposedly the basic idea of the ending comes from Matt and Tim. I remember that when I first heard that, I was delighted by it, because everything I'd gotten from interviews up to that point seemed to indicate that the actors, Tim especially, were invested in their characters and protective of them. Ultimately, though, I guess it just proves that there's a reason why actors act and writers write. :P
I kinda feel like the ending is an attempt to do ~serious drama~ in a show that never was about serious drama, or particularly good at it. I mean, if you pull back and look at it thematically, you can kinda see where they're coming from: it's a show about the world's greatest conman, and in the end, he pulls off his greatest con ... on his friends and family. But the show just isn't the kind of show where that kind of ending works. It's not The Wire, ffs. It's a cute, sweet show about a con artist and an FBI agent solving crimes together. It's the kind of show where everything gets put back happily at the end of 42 minutes. Maybe it would've been a much better show if it wasn't that kind of show, but it is that kind of show, and trying to graft a ~THEMATICALLY SERIOUS!~ ending onto the sweet little mess is just frustrating and sad.
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(Anonymous) 2015-03-13 03:18 pm (UTC)(link)