sholio: Made by <lj user=foxglove_icons> (Tea)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2014-12-19 04:23 pm

More thoughts on the White Collar series finale

Being as nonspoilery as possible, I'll just say outside the cut that the tone of this one is different from the tone of my last post about the finale, and leave it at that ...



BECAUSE FRITH IS MAGIC AND ALSO AWESOME, somehow an epic chat session about the finale this afternoon worked me around from being weepy and miserable about it, to being bouncy and happy and wanting all the post-finale reunion fic! I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW IT HAPPENED. <3

Trying to reconstruct the chain of conversation, what basically kicked off the tone shift was talking about Jeff Eastin's insistence that Neal faked his death & left New York to go back to a life of crime, which brought up the possibility that Neal's been planning his fake death the entire season, starting from when he first got in with the Panthers. (It fits surprisingly well with canon, if you go back and look at it.)

Which is really EVEN WORSE, if you think about Neal spending the entire season lying to his loved ones' faces and planning to run the whole time.

But then I got to thinking about it.

At the end of season five/start of season six, he's in a really bad headspace. He's just come off a major resentment kick towards Peter (which there were certainly lingering bad feelings about, even if he perked up a lot at the end of the season), and he got completely screwed over by the FBI. He was planning to run. The only reason why he didn't was because the kidnapping thing happened.

And I can TOTALLY see Neal in his S5 headspace deciding to make a clean break of it and either leave with the Panthers, or steal all their money and run. Screw Peter, screw the FBI. By this point I can see him being at least halfway to believing they wouldn't care anyway.

But then season six happened and things began to change, as Neal realizes that he's loved and needed here, and Peter's put everything on the line to win his freedom ...

[personal profile] sholio: The more I think about it, I do think the original plan was either to run with the Panthers, or to let them get caught and run with their money
[personal profile] sholio: Keller being with the Panthers really fucked up his plan though
[personal profile] sholio:  I can also see Neal in his end-of-season-five/beginning-of-season-six headspace being all "Well, they won't really miss me anyway, SO THERE." and only slowly realizing that's not true.
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  It's very Neal
[personal profile] sholio:  yeah, that's .... wow. It fits EVERYTHING.
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  :)
[personal profile] sholio:  Including him being more distant in the first couple episodes.
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  it does!
[personal profile] sholio:  Strangely enough that makes me feel better about the season? Because, in the beginning, he's bitter and resentful and going through the motions, mostly, and looking forward to it just being OVER. And then he starts to realize how much Peter's put on the line for him, and how much he really is cared about here, and starts to go "oh shit, maybe I won't go through with it after all". And then he realizes he's going to have to go through with it anyway because the Panthers pose a direct threat.
[personal profile] sholio: .... which actually fits really well with his overall behavior all season long.
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  I like that too!
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: also if he's ALREADY started setting it up, it means he'd be even less likely to consider other options when faced with the Panther threat to his loved ones
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: he's starting from a place of "THIS is The Plan"
[personal profile] sholio:  oooh, that makes a LOT of sense
[personal profile] sholio: It also, in a way, gives more closure to his character arc, I guess. Because one of the things frustrating me about the finale is that it seems like he hasn't really learned anything after all, but his whole arc this season is a sort of mini-version of his arc all series: he starts out only thinking about himself, and then he starts to include other people's welfare in his planning, and by the end he's mostly doing it for them.
[personal profile] sholio: (if we look at this as having been his plan all along)
[personal profile] sholio: .... when the entire story comes out, Peter is going to STRANGLE him for going through this all on his own. Strangle him lovingly. But still. XD
[personal profile] sholio: remember "lying to me is never protecting me" from season four?
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  definitely XD
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: in one ear and out the other
[personal profile] sholio:  *swish*
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  it's all just SO Neal, everyone is just going to cover their face and scream in exasperation
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: and then strangle him
[personal profile] sholio:   when we first started talking about that particular line of possibility (Neal planned it all season) it was just making me MORE depressed about the whole thing, but ultimately it ends up tying up all the character/plot arc stuff I really liked from season five, and makes his eventual character arc a lot more positive, I think!
[personal profile] sholio: As opposed to just deciding halfway through the season to kill himself and make all his loved ones miserable. XD
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  I really think it does!
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  and Rachel telling him he'd end up dead or in prison and then killing herself definitely contributed to his fatalistic planning
[personal profile] sholio:  oh wow
[personal profile] sholio: yeah, I completely forgot the season started with THAT
[personal profile] sholio: He's really been in a terrible headspace for awhile now

Which led to contemplating Neal in Paris:

[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  I was just thinking about the delicious angst on Neal's part there
[personal profile] sholio:  so much angst
[personal profile] sholio: especially if he'd gone in a couple of months from desperately wanting to be gone, and being all "YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME YOU JERKS", to realizing they DO care about him and wanting to stay
[personal profile] sholio: EXCEPT HE CAN'T
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  Neeeeeal
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: and then TRYING to go back to a life of crime, and realising almost immediately that it's not making him happy anymore
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: or trying very halfheartedly
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: as part of the angst
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: ...maybe he works in a Parisian bakery now instead 
[personal profile] sholio:  XDDD
[personal profile] sholio: Maybe he just left the newspaper KNOWING that it would make Peter drop everything and come to Paris
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  YEs!
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: and actually it was a troll
[personal profile] sholio:  XD
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  Peter will DEFINITELY strangle him
[personal profile] sholio:  XD XD
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  to Neal's utter surprise
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  Peter should be HAPPY he's not actually heisting
[personal profile] sholio:  But yeah, I LOVE the idea of Neal spending a lot of his solo year in Paris, etc, attempting to pull off heists, and going to Monaco casinos, and taking long beach walks, and doing all the things he couldn't do on the anklet -- but it's just not the SAME
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: Yes!
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns: and pining
[personal profile] sholio:  hahahaha yeah
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  and going through a million different ways he could totally contact everyone without the Panthers finding out, but deciding each time he can't risk it
[personal profile] sholio:  awwwww bb
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  writing a million coded postcards and never sending them
[personal profile] sholio:  oh god
[personal profile] sholio: BABY
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  piling them up in an apartment
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  his shrine of pining
[personal profile] sholio:  some of them written late at night while drunk on expensive Parisian wine
[personal profile] sholio:  which he then burns because they're too maudlin and honest
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  or possibly can never decipher
[personal profile] sholio:  .... shrine of pining ahahahaa YES
[personal profile] sholio: XD!
[personal profile] sholio: yes
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  pine-shrine
[personal profile] sholio:  with pictures of Peter and El!
[personal profile] sholio: stolen via hacking into their Facebook
[personal profile] sholio: where El posts all the baby pictures for her parents
[personal profile] sholio: and holiday pictures of them in stupid sweaters
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  staring sadly at facebook photos while drinking
[personal profile] sholio:  In a beautiful, super-expensive Parisian townhouse
[personal profile] sholio: that he fantasized about in New York
[personal profile] sholio: but now it's too big and empty
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  awwww bb
[personal profile] sholio:  and full of stupid shiny stuff
[personal profile] sholio: that he doesn't care about
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  he doesn't even unpack it all
[personal profile] sholio:  (meanwhile Peter and El are weeping over photos of Neal as they carefully arrange them in the baby's room so he can see his namesake)
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  such strangling in Neal's future
[personal profile] sholio:  First hugging, then strangling
[personal profile] sholio: followed by more hugging
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  then more hugs
[personal profile] sholio:  while yelling
[personal profile] frith_in_thorns:  and then drinking

So, yes. I want all the reunion fic now.

♥ ♥ [personal profile] frith_in_thorns ♥ ♥

I dunno why this changes things so much for me. I guess that it picks up all the character threads I liked from season five and actually deals with them. It gives Neal a much more coherent character arc, and makes his eventual faking-his-death plan a logical consequence of things he was already planning to do earlier in the season, which he decides not to do because of its impact on other people ... and then has to do anyway because of changing circumstances. It makes the whole thing feel so much more solid, and so much less a violation of everything we thought we knew about the characters.
tuppence: (Neal & Peter)

[personal profile] tuppence 2014-12-21 05:04 am (UTC)(link)
I like that - I can get behind that.

I really need to rewatch the end. Neal, well, he's still my favorite. So I was kind of glaring at the screen with my arms crossed during most of the last act, mentally saying "REVEAL HIM TO BE ALIVE. NOW. THE BABY IS NOT A REPLACEMENT GOLDFISH. NEAL IS STILL ALIVE DAMMIT." But since I was glaring, I might have missed this - Peter got the key in his effects. We know that Peter tracked Neal to the storage unit, and I assume Neal would know that too. Do you think it's possible that Neal thought that Peter would find it, and the faking, much more quickly than Peter actually did. For which I wouldn't blame Peter in the slightest (go hug Peter, characters. All of you.)

I'm happy to buy into the Panthers being terrifying and deadly, and that scaring Neal enough into carrying this on, and Peter and Moz forgiving him when they're done strangling him. And El eventually. But I'm curious for her - I can see her going the way of "I had to watch my husband and one of my best friends both fall apart for a year, when I had a newborn and was supposed to be joyous because of what you did here. Why should I forgive you again?" But I can also see her going "You sacrificed a lot to keep my husband safe, to keep me safe, to keep my child safe. Thank you. And shit, what an awesome con." El's got that similar con instinct - I think she'd go with the latter. I *really* want to be convinced that Sara would forgive Neal, but that's harder for me than anything else. I think Diana will forgive, but is gonna be wary forever on Peter and Mozzie's behalf. I think this will finish off what's left of Jones' and Neal's friendship. Not that Jones will ever be mean, rude, or unprofessional in the slightest. But I think that Jones isn't gonna let Neal see him vulnerable anymore. (I can be talked out of these last two. Found family ahoy!)

I can't decide - did June know in advance? I'm not sure I can see Neal doing this to Peter and Moz but not June. But June's the best actress of the bunch. Neal may be willing to let her do this where he just can't trust Peter or Moz to hold on for however long it takes. Moz is not a front man, and in a sense making Peter keep this big secret from El, from Moz, from June, from Diana, from Jones, from everyone else, is kind of unfair on its own. Of course, they've kept secrets before.

On a completely separate complaint, there was not enough Diana this season. :(
veleda_k: (White Collar: Team)

[personal profile] veleda_k 2014-12-22 03:11 am (UTC)(link)
Admitting my bias, I think Sara is going to be pissed (like, "Give me one good reason I shouldn't break both your kneecaps" pissed), but I also think she'll forgive Neal. Sara always forgives Neal. After he conned her to get the FAA package, after he swore he and Alex were done then kissed her, after he lied about the treasure, and after he fled to Cape Verde. I think there are people in Neal's life, Peter and Sara first among them, who understand and accept that this is part of loving Neal. Sara's quick to anger, but she's also quick to forgive. She may not be quick to forgive this time, but I think she will. (I went through this sort of "Will Sara ever forgive Neal for this" worry right before season four, and they weathered that.)

Like, you I can see both sides with Elizabeth, but I fall where you do. She said protect Peter at all costs, and Neal did that, even if the results weren't exactly what she was hoping.

I actually have a much harder time seeing Diana forgiving. Neal is her friend, but she's always kept a certain distance. This could be a permanent break. I certainly hope not! And she may actually come around for Peter and Mozzie's sake. (I think it's really hard to be Mozzie's friend and not be Neal's as well.) Jones is definitely the hardest sell. Even more than Diana, he always kept space between himself and Neal, and he always made it clear that he was in Peter's corner first and foremost. But like you, I'd love to be convinced otherwise.

I figure that Neal didn't tell anyone, because if he tells one person, they have to lie to everyone else. They take on that same burden that he has, and then they're the one hurting others. If no one knows, then no one else is the bad guy.
violetemerald: A drawing of a purple butterfly on a light green background (Default)

[personal profile] violetemerald 2014-12-26 05:50 am (UTC)(link)
This is all such a good headcanon to read. It still hurts, but a little tiny bit less. It makes a bit more sense as a story as a whole, I guess. I like seeing all of the characters in this way.
shehasathree: white collar season 3 poster (white collar)

[personal profile] shehasathree 2014-12-27 08:47 am (UTC)(link)
+11