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Yeah, I'm too lazy to type the title *grin*.
I *really* enjoyed this one! I had a few little nitpicks, such as not getting to see anyone telling Rodney about Teyla; either they haven't told him yet -- which seems kind of odd that it wouldn't have EVER come up on the flight to the Replicator planet -- or we didn't get to see it. And there were a few places that seemed too easy or like they were glossing things over to get it all to fit in an hour. But overall -- lots of squee! In fact, rather than writing up a coherent sort of episode summary, I guess I'll just list points of squee in no particular order:
-Caldwell! Yay! And seeing the contrast between him and Ellis is really interesting, because he does seem to have come to an understanding of how to work with this bunch of oddballs. And he seemed to be working really well with Carter, which was nice to see.
-The moment of revelation with Teyla! And the character reactions worked really well for me -- John being kind of an ass about it, and angry that she hadn't told him; Ronon a lot more understanding, and having figured out that she was together with whatsisname, and the handholding ... AWWWWWWW! In that scene, too, I really got the sense that I sometimes got in season 2, that Ronon and Teyla have a certain closeness that comes from being the only two Pegasus natives on Atlantis, and there are times when they understand each other better than anyone else does. I really like that rapport and was very happy to see it again here. And once again, squee! to the handholding!
-Space battles! explosions! whee! The special effects were fantastic in this episode, from little things like the puddle of Replicator goo, to the big 'splodey ones. I really loved it.
-Carter was just awesome in this. I loved that little moment at the Replicator homeworld when she gets to do the scientific figuring-out for a change, or at least point Rodney in the right direction; while I understand that it's somewhat necessary for the role she has now, she's been very sidelined on the scientific stuff while she's been on Atlantis, and it was lovely to get this little reminder that she can still go brain-on-brain with Rodney.
-That scene at the end with Elizabeth -- OMG! I covered up the list of guest stars at the beginning (I often do that because I don't want to know who's going to be in the episode; it often gives things away), and I had actually forgotten that Torri was supposed to be in this one. I love how she's got this shiny leather "evil" version of Elizabeth's jacket. And honestly, I have no idea if this is a "RepliBeth" or if it's the real one and the other was lying about the real one being dead. But I'm really looking forward to next week -- I honestly know NOTHING about the next episode and I don't want to be spoiled, either; I'm just a-squee with anticipation.
-Rodney built a fembot! I can't believe no one in the show teased him about that. You know what I really loved about "FRAN", though, is that they didn't go ahead and have her go the free-will, wanting-to-be-human route. Her conversations with Rodney were very interesting, because she just thinks differently than humans do, and I really loved that. (It was also kind of nice to have ONE of their plans go off without a hitch! I mean, the rest of it didn't quite, but the FRAN part did.)
-Considering how much Larrin (Lirrin?) irritated me in Travelers, I was pleasantly surprised that I really liked her here. She really came across as a sort of female John -- and I did enjoy the understated sexual tension between them. I think this episode worked a lot better at what they were probably going for in Travelers, where it didn't quite gel for me: the clash of equally stubborn personalities who are nevertheless capable of putting their differences aside and working together when they have to. (Larrin's reference to the council was also interesting. I would love to know more about Traveler culture. These ships were pretty obviously warships only, without families on them -- at least I presume so.)
-What else? Lots of fun little bickering-bantering scenes; loved Carter defending Rodney, and Rodney and Zelenka arguing, and the John & Rodney scene at the end. (I like the way that the whole Doranda thing is basically just yet another way for John to tease Rodney -- actually, I don't think it took very long for it to become so in season 2.)
I'm sure I'll think of more after I post this. But, basically, I quite enjoyed it, and there were places where I went "... wuh?" with the plot (like bringing refugees to Atlantis rather than gating them to another world), but overall I liked it enough that I wasn't overly bothered.
I did think it was a little bit of a writerly misstep to have Larrin accept so readily that Sheppard & co. weren't in league with the Wraith, though. In the past, the slightest hint of Wraith collaboration when they're offworld is enough to bring out the "Wraith worshipper! Betrayer!" accusations. Larrin's willingness to accept a Wraith alliance seemed to go against what we've seen of the Pegasus Galaxy mindset. On the other hand, being the only people in the galaxy (so far) who are on technologically equal footing with the Wraith, it's possible that the Travelers have actually considered plans along the lines of the one in Allies in the past. Anyway, it bugged me, but my nitpicks with the episode were really all small things, and for an episode with a plot this sprawling and complicated, I guess that's really a point in its favor!
Okay, off to read other people's reactions. :)
I *really* enjoyed this one! I had a few little nitpicks, such as not getting to see anyone telling Rodney about Teyla; either they haven't told him yet -- which seems kind of odd that it wouldn't have EVER come up on the flight to the Replicator planet -- or we didn't get to see it. And there were a few places that seemed too easy or like they were glossing things over to get it all to fit in an hour. But overall -- lots of squee! In fact, rather than writing up a coherent sort of episode summary, I guess I'll just list points of squee in no particular order:
-Caldwell! Yay! And seeing the contrast between him and Ellis is really interesting, because he does seem to have come to an understanding of how to work with this bunch of oddballs. And he seemed to be working really well with Carter, which was nice to see.
-The moment of revelation with Teyla! And the character reactions worked really well for me -- John being kind of an ass about it, and angry that she hadn't told him; Ronon a lot more understanding, and having figured out that she was together with whatsisname, and the handholding ... AWWWWWWW! In that scene, too, I really got the sense that I sometimes got in season 2, that Ronon and Teyla have a certain closeness that comes from being the only two Pegasus natives on Atlantis, and there are times when they understand each other better than anyone else does. I really like that rapport and was very happy to see it again here. And once again, squee! to the handholding!
-Space battles! explosions! whee! The special effects were fantastic in this episode, from little things like the puddle of Replicator goo, to the big 'splodey ones. I really loved it.
-Carter was just awesome in this. I loved that little moment at the Replicator homeworld when she gets to do the scientific figuring-out for a change, or at least point Rodney in the right direction; while I understand that it's somewhat necessary for the role she has now, she's been very sidelined on the scientific stuff while she's been on Atlantis, and it was lovely to get this little reminder that she can still go brain-on-brain with Rodney.
-That scene at the end with Elizabeth -- OMG! I covered up the list of guest stars at the beginning (I often do that because I don't want to know who's going to be in the episode; it often gives things away), and I had actually forgotten that Torri was supposed to be in this one. I love how she's got this shiny leather "evil" version of Elizabeth's jacket. And honestly, I have no idea if this is a "RepliBeth" or if it's the real one and the other was lying about the real one being dead. But I'm really looking forward to next week -- I honestly know NOTHING about the next episode and I don't want to be spoiled, either; I'm just a-squee with anticipation.
-Rodney built a fembot! I can't believe no one in the show teased him about that. You know what I really loved about "FRAN", though, is that they didn't go ahead and have her go the free-will, wanting-to-be-human route. Her conversations with Rodney were very interesting, because she just thinks differently than humans do, and I really loved that. (It was also kind of nice to have ONE of their plans go off without a hitch! I mean, the rest of it didn't quite, but the FRAN part did.)
-Considering how much Larrin (Lirrin?) irritated me in Travelers, I was pleasantly surprised that I really liked her here. She really came across as a sort of female John -- and I did enjoy the understated sexual tension between them. I think this episode worked a lot better at what they were probably going for in Travelers, where it didn't quite gel for me: the clash of equally stubborn personalities who are nevertheless capable of putting their differences aside and working together when they have to. (Larrin's reference to the council was also interesting. I would love to know more about Traveler culture. These ships were pretty obviously warships only, without families on them -- at least I presume so.)
-What else? Lots of fun little bickering-bantering scenes; loved Carter defending Rodney, and Rodney and Zelenka arguing, and the John & Rodney scene at the end. (I like the way that the whole Doranda thing is basically just yet another way for John to tease Rodney -- actually, I don't think it took very long for it to become so in season 2.)
I'm sure I'll think of more after I post this. But, basically, I quite enjoyed it, and there were places where I went "... wuh?" with the plot (like bringing refugees to Atlantis rather than gating them to another world), but overall I liked it enough that I wasn't overly bothered.
I did think it was a little bit of a writerly misstep to have Larrin accept so readily that Sheppard & co. weren't in league with the Wraith, though. In the past, the slightest hint of Wraith collaboration when they're offworld is enough to bring out the "Wraith worshipper! Betrayer!" accusations. Larrin's willingness to accept a Wraith alliance seemed to go against what we've seen of the Pegasus Galaxy mindset. On the other hand, being the only people in the galaxy (so far) who are on technologically equal footing with the Wraith, it's possible that the Travelers have actually considered plans along the lines of the one in Allies in the past. Anyway, it bugged me, but my nitpicks with the episode were really all small things, and for an episode with a plot this sprawling and complicated, I guess that's really a point in its favor!
Okay, off to read other people's reactions. :)
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I was surprised by how excited I was to see Caldwell, but I think I missed him and he really has gotten used to working with them and it makes it so clear that Ellis hasn't.
Teyla's revelation was amazing - and John's reaction was spot-on John and Ronon's reaction made me melt until a thousand itty bitty pieces. he is SO FANTASTIC.
Sam really did finally shine though, yes, I would like if they could remember that not only is she a very smart scientist, but she has TONS of experience with the replicators (possibly more than anyone) - though the Milky Way replicators were a little different. I get that her job here is different and I'm okay with her science taking a back role, but it is the core of who she is.
And, yeah, I was much less annoyed with Larrin this time around.
My biggest WTF was the science that hurt so much I had to rewind to see if they were actually saying THAT. *sigh*
Still. I feel like they're hitting their good stride again and it's so exciting.
(also, in my head, RepliCarter was there in Liz's ship in the background off-camera becuase they are going to take over the galaxy together)
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Hee! to the RepliCarter! :D
I wasn't really that bothered by the science; I think I've just accepted that science and medicine on this show will NEVER make ANY sense at all, and can usually ignore it. Not that I won't complain occasionally anyway. But I was able to ignore it in this episode, anyway! I'm not really *that* knowledgable about science to begin with, so I guess it's easier for me to ignore it than someone who's actually trained in it.
But it was a wonderfully enjoyable episode, and it's really got me looking forward to next week.
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This is made of win! I just had to tell you that!
Court
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Let's try again:
I absolutely agree on the joy that was Ronon comforting Teyla after her announcement, and your suspicion that part of that bond arises from a kind of Pegasus solidarity mentality. And I also liked Larrin a lot more in this episode than in "Travelers" (although I didn't dislike her in that episode as much as a lot of other people did); she was more competent and confident, maybe. I also laughed at FRAN as a fembot; I don't know if you watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but I was tempted to say, "I was made to love you!" when she appeared. You know Zelenka was thinking along those lines when Rodney introduced her.
I wonder: does it matter whether the Elizabeth we saw is the real Elizabeth or a Replicator? In some sense, she hasn't been herself since the season premiere, and her consciousness has been assimilated into the Replicator collective, so is there really a difference between nanite-infested "our" Elizabeth and a nanite-built copy like the one in "This Mortal Coil"? Is there a difference between either of those and a full-blown Replicator with her memories, other than the physical? Or is it just sentimental? Hmmm.
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Regarding Elizabeth ... that's really a tough one. One of my big problems with "Mortal Coil" was that I believed the clones SHOULD have been considered fully human and it really annoyed me that neither the scriptwriters nor the characters within the show seemed to do so. As far as I'm concerned, if you create a human body and you put a human consciousness in it, that IS a human being. It's not the original person, but it's definitely a person.
I don't think that a copy of Elizabeth is the same thing as having the original Elizabeth back. However, I DO think that a copy is entitled to all the rights and protections of a human being.
That's assuming that it's like the "Mortal Coil" clones ... a physical, human body with a human consciousness inside, not a simulation created by nanobots.
The humanform Replicators themselves ... that's much more of a gray area. I think the show has done a pretty good job of emphasizing that the Replicators are much closer to being machines than sentient, self-aware beings. This isn't to say that I think it's impossible for a machine to be a sentient person. I just don't think the Replicators are; they're very much driven by their programming, they break down and recombine without feeling as if they've lost anything, and, with a couple of exceptions, they don't seem to have much self-will or concept of self at all.
But an Elizabeth composed entirely of nanobots, with Elizabeth's thoughts and memories, would be much closer to the "Mortal Coil" copies than the true Replicators are. I suppose that if a being thinks of itself as a person, it IS a person. The thing that makes the Replicators interchangable non-people is that they don't have any independent existence on their own, and they don't want it. If RepliBeth exists as an independent being and doesn't want to be part of the collective, then she has a right to that. She's still not the original Elizabeth, though. And, personally, I disagree that nanite-infested Elizabeth is fundamentally a different person from who she was before. The nanites were keeping her alive, but she was still her; she wasn't any less "Elizabeth" than if she'd been in a wheelchair or otherwise dependent on equipment to survive. Elizabeth died when her body and the consciousness inside it died (assuming, that is, that she did actually die). The copies that can be made with recordings of her thoughts are people, but they're not really Elizabeth -- they're individuals.
At least that's how I see it.
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I too loved the scene between Ronon and Teyla, but I agree with John, she should have said something sooner, not because they're a team and as a team they should know, but if something changes for you such as being pregnant, then your team leader needs to be aware of that. If I were in his position and I sent Teyla out and she got hurt and in turn lost the baby I would be devasted, John might not be devasted, but he would certainly be upset. Of course my view may be somewhat biased because Hubby and I are currently trying to start a family *grins* However I don't think that Teyla should be taken off of active duty, I think she should have been honest and then told them all it's my life and my choice and I'm going to keep doing what I think is best for me and this child and if that means coninuting to be a part of the team then so be it. Teyla's smart, she'll know when it's time to step back and let someone else handle it and when she needs to be the one to step up and handle things. It was such a great scene for Ronon and Teyla though, I absolutely loved it and it was nice to see that again.
I too liked Larin(not sure I spelled that right) better in this episode, but she did seem awfully quick to just be okay with working side by side with the Wraith. I loved Travelers, but her character made me squirm, there's just something about her that rubs me funny and I'm not sure if it's the character or the actress. I love how John acts around her, but I still have a hard time really liking her.
I've never had a problem with Carter but this episode made me love her, I love how she defended Rodney and I love how she told Ellis that if he treated anyone on the base like that again he wouldn't be welcome. Ellis is a tool and I love the actor, but not the character, lol! I'm a huge Caldwell fan and I loved how he was the complete opposite of Ellis.
Rodney and Radek were perfect in this episode, I've really missed the two of them bantering back and forth and I too liked the route they went with Fran.
All in all a very good episode. :D
Court
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I adored seeing Caldwell again, and loved the contrast between him and Ellis.
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(Anonymous) - 2008-01-06 16:53 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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LOL!! I hadn't thought of that!!! Snerk!
I loved this episode as well (and yes, there are flaws, but nothing major). Really, really hoping we get to see Rodney's reaction to Teyla's news next week! I thought John and Ronon's reactions were right, especially Ronon (aww, and lol about the name suggestion!).
I loved Carter's role, the way she acted as leader but also got to show off some science skill as well ('we're genuises' says Rodney!) And nice to see Rodney's 'dry spell' is over (the one he insists he hasn't had!!). He has been struggling the last couple of episodes or so - even genuises have their off periods! (In his defence, that coding must be very, very complex.)
Elizabeth's bit at the end was a surprise for me too - though as soon as they panned past the leader without showing us his/her face, I just knew it was her! So, is she evil-Weir now, or are these the ones that want to ascend and she's helping them for some reason or other? I guess we'll find out eventually - in season five probably - or at least, I hope so.
The special effects were fantastic - and that's the best exploding planet I can ever remember seeing offhand! It made me go wow!
I'm sure there's more I could say, but I'm tired and must go to bed soon... It was a great ep and I, too, am looking forward to the next episode. And no, I have no specific spoilers for it either!
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And in fact, he never DID get it to work! I really like seeing the more fallible side of him, where he's not able to solve every scientific problem put in front of him.
And I'm VERY curious to see where they're going with Weir.
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I covered up the list of guest stars at the beginning (I often do that because I don't want to know who's going to be in the episode; it often gives things away)
Ehehee~! So I'm not the only one who does that! *g* But - yes, it was a cool surprise there at the end of the episode.
I have a bunch of things in the ep I found interesting or cute or worth remarking on, but I keep forgetting what they are in favor of going OMG SO CUTE when I think about Ronon and Teyla and their little moment, and awww about John's instant guilt-trip for having put one of his team in peril, and - oh. They'd better show Rodney's reaction on screen, but if not, I'm sure I can count on the fandom to come up with a missing scene I'll love to bits.
Oh! One of the interesting things - need to point it out now, before I forget - is that Todd said something about not all Hives having Queens anymore? And how if they lost their Queens, they couldn't get more soldiers... So now I'm wondering if the "soldiers" are the drones, and if the males like Todd are something else, or not. It is very interesting to me that Todd can go back to the Wraith after who knows how long in captivity, and not just convince them to join in an alliance, but also get to command one of the ships. This after telling Atlantis the one ship who came in response to his emergency signal was the one Hive he still had any influence on. Hmmm~. No matter what the truth of that statement is, he is one sneaky, cunning, and all around awesome Wraith!
...time for supper. But - yay, squee! ^_^
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Ehehee~! So I'm not the only one who does that!
Ha! I'm thrilled to discover that *I'm* not the only one! *g* (But seriously ... why must they always put the credits at the beginning? Why can't they list everything at the end, like they do with movies? Even knowing who wrote an episode gives an idea of what sort of episode it'll be.)
One of the interesting things - need to point it out now, before I forget - is that Todd said something about not all Hives having Queens anymore? And how if they lost their Queens, they couldn't get more soldiers... So now I'm wondering if the "soldiers" are the drones, and if the males like Todd are something else, or not.
I'm really curious what Wraith command structure is like! The more we find out about it, the more complex Wraith society seems to be. We've already seen one hive that was commanded by a male (the one in Sateda) and now, if more hives are missing queens, then there must be quite a lot of hives with male leaders.
And now I *really* want to know how Wraith reproduction works! Because if they only have a few queens, and ALL baby Wraith are produced by those handful of queens, then they must have some way of one Wraith queen producing tons of ... eggs? babies? at once, or else it couldn't work. And the queens clearly do a lot more than just sit around producing eggs. Oh wow ... crazy thought ... I wonder if they've actually taken the insect analogy so far that Wraith are capable of turning a regular baby into a queen based on how they feed it, like with ants and bees? (Of course, that only works in a hive that's almost entirely female to begin with, as ants and bees are. I suppose with Wraith, it makes more sense that they would have a female baby every once in a while, and the intelligent, functional males would be produced by doing something different than normal with baby drones.)
And queens, come to think of it, are the only ones we've seen that are distinctly different in physical appearance from each other. All the males and drones could easily be clones of each other (even if you do get some that act different, such as "Todd", who I love), but the females are clearly distinctive from each other AND from the males. And the only child we've seen was the baby queen, Ellia! Perhaps male Wraith are not as humanlike when they're children as females are; maybe they start out as ... grubs, or something.
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And now I can finally read LJ...
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And now I can finally read LJ...
Hee! I'm the same way ... gotta avoid LJ 'till I've seen the episode (even though my friend list is good about cutting spoilers).
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I think you're right, Larrin is a female John and I think he's smitten with her. The expression he gave when she basically told him he'd be better off on her ship in her chair...it was precious.
I'm guessing that we saw Repli!Weir. That this was the faction who wanted to ascend and cloned the one person who knew more about the subject then they did. Though, yes, they had a more evil feel including evil black leather...lol
I adored Rodney and the Wraith..don't ask me why. I think it was interesting that the Wraith knew when Rodney had realized something and I'll always love more Zelenka and Rodney moments.
I'm really, really liking Carter! She's been a nice strong figure, doesn't butt heads with John or Rodney often. But sticking up for her Team member earned many bonus points with me.
And can we have more Caldwell, please!
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OMG- the fembot was a female John. Dark hair, slender, similar face structure, hazelish eyes. it was like - wow.
I was less happy about the obvious discomfort or not as easyness between John & Rodney for most of the episode. They seemed to come together at the end (thank god), but seemed to be on edge or something for most of the rest of the episode.
And Larrin, I wasn't as happy about her. Too forced. John seemed to be forcing the flirting, and I don't know why.
Loved the special effects and it was a pretty good episode over all.
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I didn't really notice John and Rodney's interaction being off in this one. Rodney in particular was just tense and snappy in general, I think.
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The Teyla confession scene is amusing me because it seems like the fans are split 50-50 on Teyla and on John's side. I think I'm falling a bit more on John's side, because I read him as feeling more betrayed that Teyla didn't trust him, and he was putting her in danger unknowingly (not just the baby but Teyla herself could get hurt - and that could endanger all of them, if she went down in the middle of a mission. Pregnancy does carry health risks, and just as John needs to be aware of Rodney's allergies and whatnot to take them into account when mission-planning, so he also needs to be aware of other health concerns.) He overreacted and should apologize, but it was understandable. While as I can understand Teyla's point of view, and her people having a different perspective, but the fact is that Teyla apparently understands John's culture/mindset enough to know it was going to bother John, that's why she didn't tell him earlier. So it was a little cowardly of her to avoid the confrontation for this long, he's got a right to feel a bit betrayed. (I think this is also a case of John-as-leader conflicting with John-as-friend; he is responsible for Teyla's well-being, as her team-leader, and he tends to be a bit of an ass when feeling that pressure.)
Regardless, Ronon's hand-holding = soso sweet!
(I like the way that the whole Doranda thing is basically just yet another way for John to tease Rodney -- actually, I don't think it took very long for it to become so in season 2.)
Hee, yes. And the whole bit about "...& you're out of your dry spell, all's right with the world", and the "We're trusting Rodney" before that...Sheppard's default setting is trusting McKay to be able to pull off anything whatsoever, and that's the way he likes it. Aww. (good point in your comments above, though, that Rodney didn't actually succeed at reprogramming the Replicators, and man I bet that's eating at him...)
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I've definitely found that the episodes that disappointed me most have been more enjoyable on the rewatch, when I have an idea of what to expect -- it's easier to concentrate on the bits of squee when I'm not focused on the things I wanted that it didn't deliver. (Which is, possibly, kind of sad, come to think of it. *g*)
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But I didn't realize before this episode that Carter is not really fit for the command.
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Caldwell. Was there ever a time I didn't like him? I take it back.
Carter. Actually present, in command, sticking up for Rodney (yay) and presenting a scientific solution. May I just say, finally?
The Wraith. (Maybe it's me, but the wraith in the jail cell looked different from the wraith in the lab.) You can tell how he is slowly warming up to the acquired taste that is Rodney. Eeeh.
Teyla telling them about her pregnancy. It went just as I expected. Teyla nervous, Ronon supportive and happy for her (I was squeeling with the cute of the holding hands. Squeeling) and John angry, betrayed and going into protective overdrive because that's what he does, he's an old fashioned guy. You know he's not going to let her go offworld again unless she takes a med team with her.
Larrin and John. So I'm not one for romance on this show (this whole Katie and Rodney thing is killing me slowly) but John's flirting with Larrin is kinda cute. And they seem an even match.
And Weir. Boy, I did not expect that. I was expecting Fran, so my mouth fell open when the camera panned to her face. Very very nicely done.
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I adored JOhns reaction to Teyla's news. The way he said "we..." and then changed it to "you let ME....allow you out in the field." I think his reaction was understandable; a micture of hurt, suprise, genuine concern and a bit of WTF? OMG how do i deal with this? Maybe even a little jealousy as they've always been close and i can imagine that John would be concerned with keeping the team together what with the loss of elizabeth and Carson. So yeah, i totally got it.
Also, there was the perfect opportunity at the end of the ep for Shep as he's walking off with Rodney to say, "So...did you hear about Teyla?" or something or other.
Also, on a side note....how weird was it to hear John say, "So Teylas pregnant!" ?
Also....Weir. I hope its real Weir and not a cop out.
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Yeah, I think John is reacting on a very emotional level; it'll be interesting to see if he and Teyla can come to some sort of understanding once they've both calmed down and thought things through. I can't imagine Teyla being sidelined for the rest of the season, so I suspect they'll find some sort of compromise.
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1 Ronon is both a girl and a boy name :P
2 Rodney told the wraith stories of his successes. Many times :D
3 "John... I'm pregnant." I don't ship Teyla/John at all, but the fact that she said that line makes me giggle like a loon (Also "don't look at me!")
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Ronon suggesting his name for the baby was such an adorable moment. And I'm still all a-squee about the hand-holding; that kid is going to have three of the most adorable, over-protective uncles ever.
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Though I did wonder if John being written as being rather cranky about the news was because Gero does seem to be a bit of a Teyla/John shipper, at least from commentaries such as Sunday. I hope not, again because I like the friendship.
And it's nice that John gets to have a regular play date in the future with Larrin - I quite like the guest star relationships, because most of it happends off-screen. Erm, I'm not much of a romantic, am I? Haha.
But in the end you pretty much summed up all my thoughts on the episode - I thought it was a really strong one from a season that's been the best yet.
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And, along those lines, I do hope they're not heading in a 'shippy direction with John and Teyla. So far, I haven't seen anything that's inconsistent with friendship. I'm more accepting of the pairing than I used to be (as in, it no longer makes me want to spork my eyes), but I really DO hope that it isn't what the writers have in mind, because I much prefer the friendship. I'd be happy for the shippers if the characters do get together, but just being all selfish ... I want the friendship!
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I enjoyed the episode but I agree there were plot holes. I love the boys, I love the banter and I love Radek and Ronon... plus the team action.
I don't think John was an ass at all. In fact, I think that his concerns were justifiable and I was actually annoyed with Teyla for keeping this a secret for two months and putting her child's life in harm's way knowingly.
I love Sam so far and I'm really happy that she's not antagonistic but she works as a good team leader who knows how to bring out the best in people and use their skills in the best possible manner. It's good that she takes a back seat to Rodney being all scienc-y but occasionally demonstrates that old Sam Carter geekout. More amusingly are John's dorky expressions in an attempt to follow. I like his lateral views and his very big picture perspective. He knows that Rodney waffles on but like a good team leader, he knows how to manage this!
Ellis wasn't that much of an ass to me - I thought he had valid concerns but his manner is certainly more aggressive than Caldwell. I missed Caldwell and I liked the contrast between him and Ellis.
I didn't like Larrin much in Travllers (she annoyed me) but surprisingly liked her better here. I was highly amused by Sheppard's interaction with her because he was painfully trying hard to impress or just get into her pants whilst she kept him at arms' lenghth. It was refreshing to see someone who didn't fall at his feet. Not sure about the sexual tension though. I still don't see it but I like their interactions.
Rodney will amuse me and I will always adore him even if I'm annoyed by him (or especially if he's extra annoying) or I think he's waffling on to much. I think I always have a soft spot for Rodney. His interactions with the wraith were highly amusing. I didn't wraith could do eyerolls but I really like this wraith.
I also loved Fran. It was
...he created her for one purpose and they needed her to fulfill it, yet it really bothered him that she was going to be destroyed in the process even though she embraced her purpose/destiny. ....
Because to me, it didn't bother him at first and then later, you see him consider it on the Appollo. And she calmly tells him that it was silly to care.
What's interesting about this ep (and all SGA eps) and other eps is the range of reactions. I think it's fascinating that some people can totally hate it for the same reasons we like it and that some people see things that we completely miss.
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I find it intriguing that SGA, the show itself, doesn't actually do a whole lot of in-depth exploration of the ideas that it introduces ... but it does introduce *fascinating* ideas! I suppose that's what makes it so interesting to fan on -- there is a lot of material to explore, but if it was really explored in-depth on the show, there wouldn't be that burning need to pore over it as fans ...
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However, I did see the episode and I wanted to comment on a few things...
I really loved different reactions of John and Ronon to Teyla's announcement. When I first heard that there would some people who be very happy for her and some not so much I knew that John would be one of the ones who was not happy. And while I wanted to smack him, it was perfectly in character. John is a military guy...he would see Teyla's pregnancy as a hindrance. I think that Teyla knew that and that was why she didn't tell anyone. She knew what John's first reaction would be...and she knew they didn't have the time for John to come to terms with her condition. And he would be angry and hurt to learn she didn't tell him. He would take personally.
Ronon's reaction was perfect as well. Part of it might be as you said the fact they are both Pegasus galaxy natives, but I also think that Ronon is very much a "go with the flow" sort of guy. I got the impression he was a surprised and John was but he figured that Teyla has her reasons for not telling them. He may have even known what those reason were.
I would love to see what Rodney's reaction would be, but I don't think we will get that. As much as I wish it were otherwise the Teyla-Rodney relationship is really the least developed of all the team pairings. Which really is a shame because there is so much she could teach Rodney...
I also loved Ellis and his part in this episode. Yes he was a somewhat of a jerk, but he was suppose to be. I get the impression that Ellis is like Caldwell was back in season two. Which makes sense, because Caldwell could not have stayed in the same roll. He has seen the Atlantis team in action to many times. Hell, he's even figured out how to deal with Rodney... And I think by the end of the episode he realizes that as unorthodox as the Atlantis team may be they get the job done.
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I do love the different reactions from John and Ronon. As noted in various comments above, my own sympathies lie more with Teyla in that situation ... but this is not to say I feel John's reaction is unsympathetic or unrealistic for him. Quite the contrary -- I think it's very much in character and lends an interesting edge of conflict to the relationship ... hopefully providing much fodder for stories to come.
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In all honesty, I wasn't blown away by this ep. Didn't hate it, but I still got the rapidfire "one thing, after another, after another" vibe that I got from This Mortal Coil. None of the ideas that I felt were being thrown at me REALLY grabbed me, although there was much I liked.
Liked Caldwell, but then I nearly always do.
Liked Rodney's idea to reverse the standard tactic with the Replicators and make them "super-sticky" rather than discohesive. Major groan at the blatant plot device that it had to be made humanoid to make it work - but I did like FRAN herself. Must admit that I did expect her to turn on them with the "I want to LIVE!" thing - coz SOMETHING had to go wrong and I was all set for the cliche to eventuate, but it didn't which was nice. FRAN's speech about finding satisfaction in fulfilling her purpose kinda reminded me of the the Dish of the Day from Douglas Adams' Restaurant at the End of the Universe "The rump is very good, sir? I've been exercising and force feeding myself for months. Or a casserole of me perhaps?"
Nice to see Sam getting a defined role in the story again - and one that's consistent with a) her new position and b) her past relationship with the others (particularly Rodney).
BTW - thought her reaction to Ellis was ENTIRELY appropriate, but also didn't think his initial statement was way out of line either. It was a battle planning meeting (amongst the command staff and not in front of the troups) and I think all parties should have been able to speak candidly about what the best plan would be. I think Ellis and Carter were doing a little "alpha" squaring off. I can't call Sam an alpha-male, but she's playing the alphs role here and I think both she and Ellis were entitled to test boundaries. He tested how far he could push and she showed what she would and wouldn't tolerate. I don't think either were ridiculously out of line.
And I think some fans really have to remember that everyone in that room knew that they were going into battle with God knows how many lives and possibly the future of the galaxy (if not two galaxies) on the line. I think that, behind the "closed doors" of the war room, the command staff (and yes, that includes Rodney, really) have to say what they honestly think of various strategies and their implementation. If they don't question and just go along with what's suggested even if they think it's a bad plan, then they shouldn't be in command of their respective ships/city/divisions. I, for one, expect leaders to have a backbone!
The Weir thing at the end was a definite "hmmmm..." moment for me. Not in a bad way, but rather that it intrigues me. We don't know which Weir, what Weir (or should that be "who Weir'?) it is or what agenda she has. So y'know, a little mystery and intrigue is nice.
So, yeah, stuff I liked, stuff that made me go "hmmm...", but not the gleeful satisfaction of a truly squeeful ep for me. Perhaps, there just wasn't the critical OMG moment that trips me over into squeefulness.
Still geared up for the next ep though.
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I do find it interesting that I wasn't personally bothered by the crammed-ness of this episode, because sometimes that sort of thing drives me crazy, but this time I really wasn't bothered by it. I certainly noticed it, but I enjoyed the episode anyway -- with a couple of exceptions, it didn't really feel like we were losing anything important. The episode would have been much better paced if they'd seeded a few of the setup scenes into earlier episodes; there's been a lot more continuity from episode to episode in this season than is usual for them, and would it really have been that much of a problem to, say, have the scene where they re-contact Larrin's people occur a couple of episodes previously, thus introducing a more realistic timeline? *sigh* SGA, I love you, but realism is not generally your strong suit.
Oh, I definitely see what you're saying about honesty, command staff, etc, etc. Rodney isn't and shouldn't be above reproach -- in fact, the worst thing they can do is uncritically accept everything he says at face value. But I think that not only was Carter justified in smacking Ellis down, but she needed to do it. Alpha dogs -- yeah, good comparison. I do feel as if Ellis overstepped his bounds -- in fact, not unlike the way that Rodney himself did when he first showed up at the SGC, and he totally deserved the smackdown he got from Carter back then, too. (Hmm ... has Sam always been a trifle territorial? First of her scientific domain, now of Atlantis -- not that I think she's unjustified in either case, but it's still interesting to compare the two situations, because she seems pretty mild, but boy, don't push her ...)
Anyway though, I'm sure you are going to get those sorts of situations when you've got a bunch of smart, strong-willed and outspoken people in a room together; it's just inevitable. Speaking of conflict, or lack thereof, I do find it pretty cool to see how smoothly Caldwell is working with the Atlantis team these days. And I'm thrilled that he hasn't been completely written out; I really didn't think we'd see him this year, so it was a squee! moment for me when he showed up.
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