sholio | Dr. Who: Voyage of the Damned

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Dr. Who: Voyage of the Damned

So, we watched it tonight, and my reaction is basically ... WTF?

... I mean, seriously. WTF?

There were two things in it that I really liked. One is the whole idea of a bunch of aliens naming their tourist liner Titanic because it's the only Earth ship they've heard of. That is just such a perfectly dumbass tourist/cultural-outsider thing to do. (Also, I've had a weird soft spot for the goofy-zany anachronism of sailing ships in space ever since I saw Captain Harlock when I was eight.)

The other thing that got me is the fact that everyone's noticed that London gets attacked by aliens every Christmas and have made plans to be elsewhere. That cracked me up.

And then there was the rest of it.

... so, seriously, are my expectations for this show too high, or something? I mean, I love SGA even when it's lame and makes no sense, because I sort of expect it to be lame and make no sense -- so when it's good, I'm insanely happy with that because I'm not really expecting it, and when it's not, which is rather often, at least it fulfills my USRDA of amusement and squee. I can't figure out if I'm being too hard on Dr. Who and expecting it to be better than what it is, or if it's just gone a few quantum levels of "lame" beneath SGA's pits of lameness, because the best that this episode managed to do was occasionally make me grin, and otherwise, I spent quite a bit of time just feeling annoyed by its ... well, everything. I actually kinda wish I hadn't seen it, because I was pretty optimistic about what Donna could bring to the whole dynamic (as a mature, no-nonsense sort of Companion who wasn't likely to fall into the love-interest trap), but this episode -- it was like everything I didn't like about the last season compressed into an hour of PAIN, and right now I have zero confidence in the writers to do ANYTHING right.

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There are two schools of thought regarding the current incarnations of Dr Who. 1) Russel T Davis, who is the mastermind and chief script writer, is a tiny God for bringing Who back and making it popular. 2) RTD, as he is known, might be a genius for bringing the show back but he can't write worth a damn and now has his head shoved so far up his own arse that he is in great danger of ruining what he brought back.

I'm in the latter school of thought :P Voyage of the Damned was an RTD script. If you look at all the really outstanding eps of the new series, they're not written by RTD. The writers (plural) are ok, it's RTD that's the problem. Somewhere there's a link to a recent interview he did that might help you understand this school of thought. I shall try and track it down.

I admit to being completely clueless when it comes to the people behind most of the shows I watch -- SGA is kind of an aberration for me in that I read the interviews and the showrunners' and actors'; normally I ignore that stuff as much as possible and just take what I see onscreen as my whole knowledge of the thing. I've heard of RTD, sometimes in worshipful tones and, increasingly these days, in an "OMG anti-Christ" sort of way.

I've been something of an apologist for the show in the past. I think this episode finally cured me of that.

LOL. I can totally understand this reaction, but I didn't mind the episode. I think the fact I was a little spoiled helped, even though I usually hate being spoiled, because it meant I, um, didn't expect too much.

I was pretty optimistic about what Donna could bring to the whole dynamic (as a mature, no-nonsense sort of Companion who wasn't likely to fall into the love-interest trap)

I have high hopes for Donna in that regard as well. She seems the type who won't let the Doctor get away with being a jerk, and Ten kind of needs that.

Maybe the writers have gotten the silliness out of their systems now and season four will be really good? *fingers crossed*

I went into it with pretty low expectations (not having heard much that was good about it) and it still went lower yet! *sobs*

I agree with the part about the chick always seeming to fall for the Doc. It's not the part that I watch for and why I was glad to see the back of Rose but otherwise I enjoyed it.

I don't even think it's the girls throwing himself at him that bothers me so much as him falling for them in return. But only certain girls, natch! That's what really toasts my bagel. In this episode it was so over-the-top it was just ridiculous -- Astrid is a monkey he's known for maybe an hour.

I think the reason why this episode just completely torpedoed any desire I have to defend the show anymore is because, in the wake of series 3, and the whole Rose and Martha situation, and the massive criticism that's been heaped on the show because of that, they needed to do something to show that they got it -- that they understand why people are upset about the show's casting and its disproportionate focus on the blond white chick, that they can do better. Not only did they not do better, but they did a whole lot worse.

We watched it last night and at the end, we were laughing...and not in a good way! It went way OTT and fell to ridiculousness in more than a couple of places. It would've been fine if they were aiming at a parody but I don't think they were. I was surprised because that's not been the norm for Who. Hopefully it was just an aberration.

Yeah, it was as bad as the worst of the cheesiest writing in the old series of Who! Right now my optimism about the fourth season is pretty low -- I think I'm gonna give the first episode a chance, but it's going to have to REALLY grab me to make me come back for more.

... and we started watching NCIS last night, also, the first two episodes of the first season. I quite like it so far!

I have to say that for me from the moment the Doctor did his little presentation (I'm the Doctor *cue fireball*) I re-named this special "Dr Who does Cheese". I kind of revelled in how momentously cheesy it all was :P Which made it enjoyable enough to watch once, but certainly not again. And while there were a lot of little details that I liked (and characters) overall it fell pretty far down the spectrum of Whonian goodness.

Looking forward to the new series and the new companion, though :) (when does it start?)

Yeah, it was impossibly, over-the-top cheesy; I suppose that if I hadn't been distracted by other things that bothered me about it (like the appallingly ill-thought-out casting to name just one thing), I would've been able to relax and enjoy the cheese a little bit more.

I'm not sure when the new series starts, though; all I knew is that this one would air on Christmas!

Ahh...looks like I can take a pass of watching this one, then. I'm much more eager for Torchwood.

Yeah, you're not missing anything.

I was extremely unimpressed with the one-and-a-half episodes of Torchwood that I've seen -- I think this is one where I'll sit back and wait for the viewer responses to roll in, and then make a decision about watching it.

When I first watched it, it was like watching a movie, and I kept getting a shock when the commercials came on. But mostly I think I like it because these characters actually show emotion, unlike many characters in US shows (there are notable exceptions, such as SPN). Who ever thought a guy could cry? Or that one friend would get so pissed he'd beat another? When they are scared, they are SCARED, and it's real. Someone pulled a gun on Gwen, about to shoot her, and it wasn't met with a stoic expression. She was pleading, terrified, crying, doing what real people would do. All their reactions are like that, so for a scifi show, it comes across as being very realistic and something I can connect to on more of an emotional level.

That, and it's a team that works together because they have to, not because there are any huge friendship bonds here. Add the enigma of Jack to the mix (which Doc Who screwed up, thanks for that) and it's a winner for me.

Kids are downstairs watching Fantasia 2000. Love it. *grins* They're playing the flamingos with the yo-yos. . .

I actually loved this episode, so I guess we're on opposite sides here. There were a few cliche moments that made me roll my eyes, but I was sucked right in. I liked the waitress and the little guy and the tour guide. Maybe I'm just easily pleased?

According to BBC quality polls, this episode scored an excellent (86 when anything above 85 is stellar), so I guess I'm not alone. But you're not the first person I've heard who hated it. But you did say it was everything you hated in the third season rolled into one, but I loved pretty much all of the third season (my favorite out of the three), so maybe that's where our views are different? Maybe it's in the different ways we see the doctor? Or what we are looking for in a companion?

This happens to me with Atlantis as well. There are a lot of episodes I love that people hate and then ones I strongly dislike that others love. Guess it all comes down to point of view. I hope season four is to both of our likings?

Well, I certainly don't begrudge people liking it. I'm glad you got enjoyment out of it. I think I'm probably going to give the first episode of the new season a chance ... but it's going to have to *really* hold my interest to keep me watching.

No. That episode is dreck, and all signs point to S4 being godawful.

What have you heard about S4? I've been out of the loop.

Just the usual "all the women must fight over the Doctor for his looove" stuff.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I'll just be over here, curled up in the fetal position, waiting for the hurting to stop.

Catfights never get old. Although I DESPERATELY WISH THEY WOULD.

Or do a Sarah Jane and Rose thing, and end up comparing notes and laughing at him instead. (Although, you know, in retrospect, the way that Sarah Jane seemed to think her life ended the day she left the Doctor, and she's just been spinning her wheels ever since, waiting for him to come back ... I didn't really see it at the time, but that was a bad sign.)

I don't have any interest in watching "Doctor Who, Space Gigolo".

And this episode ... aaaargh. You know, at the end of season 3, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore. It's like they actually set out to create the most offensive episode they possibly could, in as many ways as possible.

That really pissed me off. Sarah Jane comes off as really amazing in the older episodes, so to say she's spent her entire life lonely and pining after the Doctor just makes her entire personality before that OOC. Why is it that every woman on this show is nothing without him? None of them can go on without him, none of them can survive without him, none of them have any hopes or dreams or purpose that doesn't involve him somehow. Just stop throwing the women on there entirely if you're going to write them like that.

I really didn't catch the skankier subtext to the Sarah Jane plot at the time, because I was rocketing through the episodes and not really stopping to think about them all that much. But now that I look back on it, after everything else that's happened ... *ugh*.

And then there's Voyage of the Damned with the working-class wife who throws herself "heroically" off the bridge rather than go on without her husband.

It's more pronounced in her spin-off show. She's spent her entire post-Doctor life alone, never telling anyone about what she's seen and what she's done, never allowing anyone to get close because no one can compare with the Doctor.

And the stereotypes and ridiculous subtext in VotD was just ridiculous on so many levels.

Aww crap, is it that bad? Knowing that she had her own show, I had just assumed that it was about, you know, Sarah Jane doing her thing, not pining after the Doctor. Gahh.

She does her own thing, but only after they establish that until now, her life's been a big pile of post-Doctor suck.

Is Russell T. Davies responsible for that one too?

On wikipedia it says it's created by him. No wonder it irked me.

I have to say I enjoyed it. And yes, it was cheesy in parts (the queen in her slippers and curlers waving at the Titanic and wishing the Dr a merry christmas was somewhat cringe-making even for me.. but in a tolerant, eye-rolling kind of way!) :lol:

I posted in a discussion of the ep elsewhere that I was going to say that I love this show so much that I just love it no matter what but that I realised that's not entirely true because I sure wasn't impressed with the Dalek 2-parter in Season 3 that pretty much was just boring and bad. So I am capable of at least some critical appreciation. Nevertheless, I do simply love this show and could watch David's Doctor forever (I'd say I probably love this show even more than SGA right now! *gasp!*) and somehow I can let the cheesiness pass with a tolerant grin, and even that kind of laughing groan that you find yourself doing when a joke is so bad it's kinda funny anyway, you know? *lol* There was much I loved about this episode. It was an odd mix in some ways of humour that bordered on, or outright was, silly and quite dark events and angst and loss etc. But I liked the general plot idea, I liked Astrid, I liked the supporting characters, I liked the little in-jokes and the cool character moments and most of all I loved the Doctor.

I think to make me not really enjoy an episode of this show they have to do what they did with the Dalek 2-parter - make it a) boring and long-winded with not much action and b) have really badly-acted supporting cast (bad OTT accents optional) and a really cheesy bad, badly-acted, stupid-looking villain.

"Information: You are all going to die." :D

Forgot to say, I for one am looking forward to Donna. I liked her in The Christmas Bride and I do think it'll be good to have a companion who's not so young and wide-eyed and swooning over the Doctor, someone a bit more sensible and no-nonsense.

Did you see the Season 4 promo that followed VotD? Any thoughts on that?

I do look forward to Donna, as long as they keep her "edge". I think that one of my biggest problems with the way that the Companions have been handled, both of them so far, is that the longer they're with the Doctor, the more they lose their independence as people and become orbiting satellites of the Doctor. The things I like about Donna, her sparkiness and no-nonsense attitude, are things I'm afraid she'll lose if she takes up Tardis residence.

Frankly, the whole fat-people-eat-all-the-time thing really tied my monkey to a cot. Plus, the villain? Egads. I miss Martha. Not the swooney-eyed Martha, but the Martha who is strong and smart and courageous. Donna was loud and obnoxious and not my thing.

All of that said, I am looking forward to seeing my Doctor because I love sci-fi, even not-perfect sci-fi, and pluckily hope for at least a few impressive episodes this season.

I miss Martha too, but I'm actually glad she got out ...

Like I posted in another comment above, the main reason why this episode caused me to pretty much lose all interest in watching the rest of the season is because the show has come under so much criticism for its handling of Martha, and issues of race/gender/etc. THIS EPISODE, coming right on the heels of season 3, was their opportunity to show that, yes, they get it, they're listening, they understand that they haven't been doing that well, and they can do better. Instead, it was not just cheesy and over-the-top silly, but it was pretty much across-the-board offensive -- body image, class, race, gender, disability; it was almost like they set out to thumb their nose at their detractors and create the most offensive episode they could.

I'm tired of the companions falling for the doc, I liked Rose until she did and it tainted everything. With Martha, at least it was a little more, well, it wasn't sickening. But seriously, in the "old series" the companions didn't fall in love with the doc. They were intrigued by him, but it was nothing like this. What happened to *that* chemistry? I mean the closest they got was with Tegan and the fifth doc, though it was also hinted with Nyssa (that dirty ole two-timer LOL) but both were never was vocal, and was so under the hat that it was easy to ignore. Other than that, chemistry between Tom Baker's doc and Romana, but that was fate that ended in divorce. Again, nothing on screen. Certainly no pining!!

And this episode was appalling for that. My partner and I were joking afterwards that the show's turned into "Doctor Who, Space Gigolo". But, seriously, it's ridiculous. And, in this episode especially, it went beyond laughable into downright offensive because he didn't respond that way to Martha. And yet in this episode, he was practically throwing himself at a blond bombshell he'd met half an hour earlier. He even kissed her! Voluntarily! WHAT? And then, after offering the bombshell a spot in the Tardis (before she died), he rejects one of the other (male) guest stars, telling him, "No, I travel alone." WTF? Heaven forfend he should have a male Companion who's not young and blond and hot, I suppose.

"both were never was vocal"?? Sorry. Obviously changed my sentence there, but not completely. LOL!

My fifteen-year-old loved it and keeps begging me to watch it. I can't get excited about it. I didn't know about the criticism they'd received, but it's certainly justified. And I would hope they got it. I'm actually more looking forward to Martha on Torchwood than I am season 4 of the Doctor. Donna grated the entire time she was there.

What happened to the reputation this show had for writing strong women who could stand on their own and contribute to events rather than just be moony-eyes for the Doctor?

Torchwood I have to say is an acquired taste. I stuck with it because I absolutely adore John Barrowman as Captain Jack. And there were some episodes that were good and one or two that were flat out brilliant--or at least Mr. Barrowman was brilliant. But it has a much sharper edge than Doctor Who, and seems to think that being "adult" means sex, sex, and more sex. I also don't like their "everyman" character, Gwen. She comes across as rather self-righteous. But, that said, I did like it in the end, and season 2 looks wonderful, because it's going to deal with Jack taking off after the Doctor in DW's Season 3, and then he comes back and the troops were not happy campers either way.

Honestly, I can't even decide if I want to buy the Torchwood DVDs. But it's worth giving a chance.

The full episode of Torchwood that I watched was the finale -- probably not the one to start with *g* but I kinda hated it ... I found it trite and frustrating, the characters emotionally manipulative and unlikeable. I think I'm gonna hold off and wait to see how people react to the next season -- if I hear a lot of squee, I guess I'll dive in, and if there's a lot of WTF?, I guess I won't. I'm kinda glad now that I waited on Heroes, because the first season everyone was all a-squee, so I filed it away on my list of DVDs to get, but from everything I've heard about this season, it's gone downhill horribly and is barely worth watching anymore. I love using my friend list as a fanometer, because so far, it hasn't really steered me wrong -- allowing for a few outliers (episode I disagree with most people on; people whose opinions I largely disagree with) it's been a fantastic way of vetting new series before I wade into them.

p.s. I've got a question for you but I don't have your email; at least if I do, I can't find it. Email me: layla (at) ravenschildren dot com.

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Dr. Who: Voyage of the Damned

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