Brainstorming question for the Psychic Neal 'verse

[sholio]

One of the squares I got on my h/c bingo card, that I want to write for the Psychic Neal AU, is "culture shock". My general idea here is that, having grown up in a lab, he missed out on major chunks of what constitutes a "normal" childhood for people in the Western world, so there are big gaps in his education. It definitely wasn't 24/7 abuse -- the lab kids could watch cartoons and read books, and their friendlier caretakers probably did things like give them birthday parties and whatnot. Plus, they can read minds. Still, they never met other children or experienced "normal" family life, and mind-reading only helps when you correctly interpret what you're looking at.

So what I'm trying to figure out is something that Neal plausibly wouldn't know, or wouldn't think about -- something that he might stumble over. For the most part, he's good at picking up things from context (also: psychic), so it probably wouldn't be something obvious. I'm trying to think of little things where he'd miss other people's cues, or not quite realize what they're talking about and respond inappropriately ... that kind of thing.

Ideas?

Comments

[malnpudl]

White lies? The everyday, ordinary kind, where the real answer is TMI or tedious or boring or inappropriate, and it's polite and accepted convention not to tell the truth?

Games of strategy, where winning depends on your opponent not knowing what you're thinking? Chess, poker... there must be others.

Guessing games? Riddles? Knock-knock jokes?

Surprise parties?

[sholio]

Hmm, you know, that's a slightly different direction than I was thinking about, but I hadn't realized 'til your comment that the entire culture that goes along with being surprised is completely unfamiliar to him. He can (and does) fake it, but as far as actually doing it, he would have simply never learned. Prior to having the psychic damper device put on, he's never played a game in which he didn't know what cards the other person was holding, and never had a gift that was a surprise to him. That's a REALLY good point! :D

[veleda_k]

Hmm, it could be that he isn't well read when it comes to kids books that were contemporary to him? Some adults, if they went out to get kid's books, might get stuff that they read as a kid, so Neal might be a generation or two behind. But that's not definite.

I think Neal's bigger problem, early on outside the lab, might be living an unstructured life and living without strong authority. Going from a life where you always knew where your clothes and food were coming to having to get all that for yourselves. Dealing with a much wider variety of people. Neal was born into a world where extreme obedience was a survival strategy, and he became a con artist and thief. That probably took some adjustment.

And I think Neal might have trouble internalizing how traditional families work. He's not stupid or culturally ignorant, but it's one thing to know that most people have parents, cousins, etc, and another to really understand family dynamics. I mean, the mind reading would definitely help, but he wouldn't have much personal context for what he was picking up.

Also, school. Watching people going to school on TV is rarely much like actual schools that real people attend. If most of what Neal knows about attending classes with a large peer group comes from fiction, that could run contrary to reality.

Does any of that help? I can keep brainstorming. (Just ideas! Maybe not very good ones.)

[sholio]

Oh, this is definitely helpful! :D

I kinda wonder if he might have gone through a period of complete and total hedonism after first leaving the lab, sort of like kids from really repressive households often experience when they go to college, only worse. I doubt if he would've had trouble getting food and shelter, due to his ability to psychically influence people, but he might've run into a lot of trouble caused by doing things that are just completely bizarre and stupid, that no person with common sense would try, like living on chocolate for a week, or deciding to win all the prizes on all the game shows ever, or deciding he's going to fly a helicopter without knowing how. I've implied that there used to be six kids and two of them are now dead, and that might've been what happened to them -- they overdosed on heroin or died in some kind of stupid accident that they didn't know enough to avoid.

(Mozzie might be the main reason Neal is still alive, serving as the voice of caution and teaching him about things that are too sharp to touch.)

I also like the idea that he doesn't really have a clear idea of how families work. To some extent I think this is true of canon!Neal as well (ha, well, as is the above, I guess ... just a much milder case of it), that he knows how they're supposed to work but doesn't really understand how they actually do.

One thing that is ironically making this harder, not easier, is that up to a point, I'm coming at this whole thing from a perspective that's closer to the Neal perspective than the Peter et al point of view. I had an incredibly sheltered childhood -- being homeschooled and living in a very rural area, I never went to public school and had no experience with peer groups my own age until I went to college. Obviously Neal is more of an extreme case, but I can kinda get where he's coming from in some ways. But I never actually felt too hampered by that. I suppose the first year or two after I left home was when the learning curve was steepest, but it didn't take me that long to pick up enough general cultural knowledge via osmosis that I don't think it's apparent, talking to me, that my childhood was a little weird compared to most people's. So while, yeah, Neal might have trouble grasping "ordinary" dynamics on a fundamental level, I don't think it would affect his behavior all that much, because reading people and figuring them out (or, rather, figuring out how to fake being part of the group) is one of his major skills. He might not get it, but he'd have a ton of experience at hiding that he doesn't get it.

(Oh my god, this whole conversation is making me want to give him ALL THE HUGS.)

One thing I need to remember to play up more in the stories, though, is the extent to which he's been using his psychic powers as a crutch to prop up his knowledge base. Being very smart AND psychic, he's probably gotten in the habit of being incredibly lazy about learning new things if they don't directly interest him -- I can see psychic!Neal being incredibly knowledgeable about some things and absolutely ignorant of others. I like embroiderama's suggestion about his lack of knowledge of history/politics, because that seems like exactly the sort of thing that he'd never have found interesting enough to bother learning, to a point that most people would probably consider ridiculous.

[veleda_k]

So while, yeah, Neal might have trouble grasping "ordinary" dynamics on a fundamental level, I don't think it would affect his behavior all that much, because reading people and figuring them out (or, rather, figuring out how to fake being part of the group) is one of his major skills.

Yes, I think this is true. I think he would have had a really steep leaning curve, though his abilities would have served as a cushion. But after a few years (or less), he would probably appear "normal" to the casual observer. I think as time went on, most of his differences would be on that deeper level. It's easy to figure out who Michael Jackson is if you need to know. But there's no lesson plan for having a happy childhood or trusting authority. But, as you said, he won't usually let on that he has these differences.

I've implied that there used to be six kids and two of them are now dead, and that might've been what happened to them -- they overdosed on heroin or died in some kind of stupid accident that they didn't know enough to avoid.

That's a really interesting point. I had wondered what happened to those two other kids. And I like the idea of Mozzie "teaching him about things that are too sharp to touch."

[sholio]

Yeah, exactly! Neal is really sharp at picking up on other people's social interactions. Even without his powers, he's naturally talented at it, maybe more than he realizes. So, for the most part, it's going to be more subtle things than "bad time travel movie" bits of missing information (although I think there will be occasional points where he'll stumble over those, too). But there's also this whole complex of information that he just doesn't have -- like the finer points of how families work, from the inside.

[veleda_k]

One thing I think is true of this Neal is that he doesn't truly know his strengths and weaknesses very well. He tends to attribute his successes to his powers, and, as you said, he's used to using those powers as a crutch against his weaknesses. So, making a mistake and not being able to immediately cover for it would be new and unnerving. On the other side, he has to play to strengths he might not have been aware of before.

But, yeah, Neal has no idea what it's like to have parents. That's not something that's going to come up in casual conversation, but it would fundamentally alter how he interacts with the world. (Or, uh, so I think.)

[sholio]

Yeah, it's been long enough now since I wrote the first stories that I don't remember for sure, but I don't think I dealt with this in the depth that it deserved. I did think about it some, about the way that losing his psychic ability would influence the way that he was able to relate to and read people, but it would really throw off his entire set of strategies for reading other people -- which is who Neal is.

But at the same time, like you said, it brings out his strengths. I don't think psychic-verse Neal ever realized how good he actually is at reading people without his powers. I think he downplays it a lot; he kind of thinks he's mediocre at it (because he's comparing it to being able to read minds) while in reality he's a virtuoso. He never actually relied on his psychic powers to the extent that he thinks he did; part of it is that he's sort of naturally "psychic", i.e. empathic and naturally good at reading people, like canon Neal is.

[michelel72]

This is a weird one but: would it occur to him to ask if other people are okay, if they're not visibly injured? (Or maybe even if they are.)

I've read stories in which, say, Character A was considered insensitive for not asking if Character B was all right after B's friend C was hurt, for example. Or in West Wing (spoilers, sort of), a major character reveals a hidden medical condition to other characters, and in the rather contentious discussion that follows, he eventually snaps that, "I feel fine, by the way. Thanks for asking." And from one perspective, a close coworker and somewhat friend maybe should have asked (and other characters, portrayed as more sensitive types in general, do later ask how he's doing or if he's in pain, as they individually learn the news) ... but the conversation didn't happen to go that way, and in that situation I wouldn't have thought to ask, since the character presented the information as background information rather than a more urgent situation, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, I bring this up because I'm neurotypical but apparently unusual in my approach to other people's states, and ... it's been a while since I read psychic!Neal, but he grew up in a context in which he and all his peers were hurt as a routine matter and probably didn't always want to talk about it. (Not to mention that their caretakers might also have discouraged such discussions.) So it's possible that he didn't develop an instinct to ask about that sort of thing, or alternately that he's overcompensated since then and pushes to know how others (or at least those he cares about) are feeling when they might consider the question unnecessary or intrusive.

[sholio]

Ooh! This is a good suggestion; I think this is very much along the lines of what I'm thinking about, situations in which Neal doesn't react like a regular, neurotypical person would. One thing that's making it harder is that canonically, figuring out how to behave in unfamiliar situations is Neal's major skill set, and that's just as true here, so he's not going to make any major slip-ups. But I can see Neal not quite managing to internalize the "rules" for this kind of thing because he's simply never had to. This goes along with mainpudl's suggestion that he's never in his life been in a situation when he could be surprised by other people's behavior (well, assuming they knew what they were going to do) -- and similarly, he's never been in a situation when he didn't know what the other person was thinking/feeling, well enough to be able to say the right thing. It must really throw him in social situations to not be able to have that realtime feedback from the other person's reactions to what he's saying and doing.

[delfinnium]

(Just a random note)
I can't remember if he got psychic-blocked for a significant amount of time, but certainly he never ever NOT had real time feedback, so when he got blocked, he might well have been constantly asking Peter/others on what they felt, how are they DOING what are they THINKING.

And when blocked he might not be able to read their bodylanguage as well as a neurotypical conman might?

I think. I don't remember if the fics covered that. /o\ *Fails*

[sholio]

Yeah, I think it would have thrown off his whole ability to accurately read people. Like I was saying to veleda_k, I think he thinks he's worse at it than he is, because what he's comparing it to is nothing less than the ability to know exactly what someone's thinking at all times. But he's still got a steep learning curve trying to catch up.

[sahiya]

I remember having thoughts along these lines when I first read the fic, and one of the things I think Neal might struggle with on a deeper level is facial expressions. It's something that people who aren't neurotypical often have a hard time with. In my original comment to "A Handful of Lightning," I said:

We talk, of course, but that's one of the least reliable ways to communicate, if you think about it. Mostly it's body language and eye contact and all sorts of subtle facial expressions we don't even know we make. And that's how other people read us, too. Canon!Neal is extremely adept at reading those signs; it seems to me that psychic!Neal is having to undergo a hard and fast (and uncomfortable) tutorial in how other people read minds. Guessing what other people are thinking takes practice; this Neal might be slightly behind the curve, because he's never had to.

I also wonder how he feels about intimacy. He had a relationship with Kate, but I wonder if there's a way in which mundane relationships feel superficial to him, in comparison with the relationships he had with his labmates. Like, how can you really know someone and trust them if you never really know what they're thinking?

[sholio]

I think these are very good points!

Like I said to veleda_k above, I think Neal thinks he's worse at it than he actually is, because he doesn't have anything to compare it to except perfect psychic communion, and (like canon Neal) he's naturally talented at reading people. But, yeah, he's been using his psychic abilities as his main means of interfacing with the world since childhood, so in essence he's lost a sense he used to rely on and he's having to learn to adapt.

I wish I'd gotten into this more than I did in the early part of the series, because I've now moved past that and it's harder to fill in the gaps since I'm going more or less linearly (though I might end up writing some fill-in stories from earlier in the series anyway ...).

And that's a really interesting point about intimacy. I don't think the effect is quite that pronounced, because Mozzie and Kate are basically the people he's closest to, and in both cases he tries not to read their minds (though not always successfully). But there's also a level on which he's never felt as close to anyone as he did to his labmates, which is part of the subtext I was trying to get at in the Keller part of the plot -- he doesn't like Keller, but they still share an emotional bond that they don't have with anyone from the mundane world.

[magistrate]

Not sure I have much helpful to add that hasn't been covered, but what about skepticism? I mean, he's going from a place where pretty much every aspect of his life is a result of him having powers and his handlers needing to, well, handle and shape that into a world where most rational people would actively look for explanations for things which don't rely on "this guy is psychic". And there's a whole sort of culture in how psychic abilities are represented in day-to-day culture; like, I have a feeling that the first time Neal saw one of those "PSYCHIC! Tarot, Palm Readings" signs in someone's window, he had to have some questions.

[sholio]

Ha, oh wow, you know, that is a REALLY good point that I hadn't really thought about! I mean, I know that Neal is not going to, say, believe that cartoons are reality -- he's sheltered, not stupid, and I want to avoid the bad time travel cliche sort of culture shock where characters seem to have no ability to distinguish between metaphor and reality. But he DID grow up not just sheltered, but within a bubble where his abilities were normal and accepted; undoubtedly he intellectually realized that this wasn't the case in the "real world", but it must have been very different to know it in theory and then suddenly be plunged into that world, and I think you have a really good point that he's going to be bringing a different, non-skeptical viewpoint to a lot of the situations he encounters.

... Actually, I ought to set up some sort of plot dealing with that! I'm sure it ought to be possible to stretch the White Collar office's mandate far enough to cover late-night psychic hotlines or some such thing.

[krait]

Everyone's comments have been so interesting! The first thing I thought of was the "sudden freedom"/"no schedule" issue, which someone else mentioned; given how labs operate, that makes tons of sense.

Other things? Hmm.

To go along with lack of history - he might fail hard at time frames that aren't part of his focal areas, since "art" in the big-name forgery sense is pretty limited in time period? Outside of eras where art was produced and valued in a relatively modern fashion, he could be pretty clueless. Like not knowing whether cavemen and dinosaurs coexisted, or, on the other end of the spectrum, I dunno, not being aware of whether humans had ever left Earth (and when, and for how long - maybe we never even got to the moon, maybe there's colonies on Mars, how would he know without meeting a NASA official or having to spy on a conversation with someone opposing a moon-landing denier?)

In the vein of "mind-reading only helps when you correctly interpret what you're looking at", I would think nuances of phrasing might trip him up, too, in any situation where mindreading isn't going to help much. E.g. different levels of formality in an invitation to do something, or polite denials worded in "non-no" ways - they're probably not consciously thinking about whether Neal should turn up in a tee-shirt versus a three-piece suit, or *why* they don't want to do X (general reluctance might carry through, but can Neal accurately tell whether that's reluctance to miss her sister's baby shower, or reluctance toward the concept itself?)

Hmm, what else?

Depending on how far past the lab you're writing, possibly some really basic issues with situations that are alien to the lab environment - vast open spaces, or loud unruly crowds! Maybe children, too; if he wasn't around normal children, and he wasn't around more than a dozen at a time, surveying a museum on a crowded field trip day could be pretty freaky.

Anything that imitates lab procedures he would be pretty fluent in - possibly too fluent! I don't know how science-y you want to get, but if Neal effortlessly understands/explains phlebotomy requirements or advanced imaging techniques, it could raise eyebrows for others and trip him up in the "how to explain" way. Especially if he *doesn't* know more basic medical stuff, like where to buy Neosporin or something. :D

On the subject of relationships, what about contraceptives/STDs? Would there have been any education on such subjects for the lab kids? (Again, depending on how long into his post-lab time you're writing.) Reading minds won't tell you if someone has gonorrhea, but depending on how long/what age range he was in the lab for, things like condoms might be something he'd have no context for. (She wants me to have sex with her! ...Wait, she's handing me a... what? Where does the balloon come in?!)

Will continue thinking, because this is very interesting! Not to mention that, with a little effort, it could be twisted into useful notions for a couple of my own projects. :D

[sholio]

Thank you for the suggestions! Actually, that's a good point about Neal knowing way more about basic lab procedures/medical procedures than most people. (I'm thinking of this version of Neal as being analogous in many ways to someone who had a severe, prolonged childhood illness -- obviously there are many differences, but as far as the way that a lot of his childhood was impacted by it, I think there are definite similarities. And a greater-than-average knowledge of medicine and medical procedures would certainly go along with that.)