sholio: (Whine)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2007-10-27 03:21 pm

SGA 4x05: Travelers

I should warn you ahead of time that I had major, major problems with this episode.

My first and biggest problem is that the episode made my inner anthropology geek curl up into the fetal position, wailing.

I love the idea of a culture that lives on old ships traveling between the stars -- space gypsies, of sorts. What made my teeth grind is that they looked and behaved exactly like the crew of Generic Space Vessel X. Their original ship should've looked lived-in; it should have had personal possessions strewn about, kids and pets running everywhere. Most of the people on the ship should have been related to one another or at least exuded the sort of comrades-at-arms closeness that we've seen with the Satedans. Their terminology for positions within the society shouldn't have been the exact same sorts of thing that you'd get on a Federation science vessel (like at the end were she calls for technicians and a security crew .... aaaaargh). Ideally, they would have been distinctive as a society, with foreign customs and a religion and unique clothing and all of that, but being that this is mainstream sci-fi, I would have settled for the mere acknowledgment -- in any other way than random and unconvincing snippets of exposition -- that these people are a society, not merely a collection of unrelated people serving aboard a starship together.

I really can't express in words my annoyance and displeasure that we never got ANYTHING of that sort, not even to the extent that we've gotten it with the Genii and Satedans and Athosians and the other cultures that they've visited. The Travelers could have been lifted straight from any generic 1950s/60s space opera. They were only there to serve the plot. I wanted to like Lirrin, I really did -- strong cool chick with (supposed) techie skills running a society of space gypsies, sign me up! But ... gaaahhhh ... I never really felt like she cared about her people, her hotheadedness and tantrums towards Sheppard just seemed bitchy and juvenile, of course she had to be rescued from the Wraith (twice!), she didn't have any of the quirkiness and sense of fun that draws me to a character -- she was just horribly generic.

Which brings me to Gigantic Episode Bitch #2: the whole plot was horribly generic. And unsuspenseful. I think that it was intended as an homage to the old space-opera serials, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon and things of that nature; this show does that kind of thing so often that I'm pretty sure the parallels were intentional. But it didn't really fly on its own merits, and even as an episode of Buck Rogers it would have been very blah. Every time they started to crank up the suspense, things just fell apart somehow; I never really felt like Sheppard was in danger from the Travelers, even the double-crosses were kind of lackluster, and rather than an exciting finale, it just kind of crumbled with a whimper at the end. They let him go (off-camera!) and flew away! Gaaah!

The thing is, it's no longer the 1950s. If you're going to do a blatant space-action-serial homage, you really ought to muster up some kind of new twist on it, maybe a tongue-in cheek slant on the genre -- but at the very least, if you can't do any of that, can we at least get ACTION? Stargate, as a whole, is kind of the successor to those earlier sorts of shows, and at its best it can be fast-paced and smart and funny and very self-aware. This ... this wasn't ANY of that. It didn't subvert the tropes of the old action-serial genre, with its damsels in distress and generic white all-American cast, but worse, it didn't even manage to capture the fun of the original.

And then there are all the minor plot holes -- like Lirrin using the LSD, or about a dozen times during the episode when I went, "Wait, how does she/he know [x]" or "How did she/he find [x]"? These are the sorts of little things that I'll normally let go, but since I wasn't enjoying the whole thing much anyway, they kept making me want to tear my hair out.

There were a few little things I enjoyed. I liked Sheppard fixing the chair, Rodney-style -- obviously he's been paying a lot more attention than he lets on (although what would really have made that scene would have been an overt acknowledgment of that -- Sheppard muttering that he's never going to tell Rodney about this because he'd never live it down, or harking back to some time he'd watched Rodney do the same thing ... if we can't get the rest of the cast there in body, could there be SOME intimation that they're present in spirit, anyhow?). Sheppard flopped against the wall in the cell after they re-capture him on the Ancient ship, exuding boredom and general "nope, ma'am, wasn't me!" innocence, made me giggle. And his team + Lorne with their determination to get him back in the jumper. Rodney wanting to be kidnapped by space babes, and the team all eating together ... awww! (Although, does this mean they didn't feed Sheppard on the 5-hour flight back to the gate? That's not very nice! Aren't there MREs in his jumper or ANYTHING?)

But all in all ... probably not gonna be watching this one again soon. I didn't loathe it with the active burning passion that I felt for "Irresponsible" -- but, on the other hand, I actually really liked parts of "Irresponsible", and on re-watching, was able to ignore the parts I hated (for the most part) and focus on the funny team stuff. My feelings towards this episode (aside from a giant case of frustration regarding the Travelers) are more of a general "blah". There was just NOTHING really to recommend this episode ... nothing that made me want to go back and rewatch bits, nothing that really sparked off ideas. Well, okay, that's a lie, because I really want to write about the Travelers -- but I was so thoroughly frustrated by the way they were depicted in the episode that I don't really want to write a tag so much as I want to write about my own culture of space gypsies DONE RIGHT.

*sigh*

Okay, now is where you all disagree with me and tell me that it didn't suck as much as I thought it did. *g*

[identity profile] madripoor-rose.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:04 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, yes! At first I thought it was a pastiche of the original Battlestar Galactica...this was the first SGA episode I didn't bother to watch all the way through.
ext_1981: (Who-Rose)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:07 am (UTC)(link)
It was just so BLAH! I mean, even Irresponsible, awful as it was, was funny. This episode was incredibly similar to the "Prometheus Bound" episode of SG1, but where that was funny and silly and delightful, this was just ... flat.
ext_975: photo of a woof (Default)

[identity profile] springwoof.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:11 am (UTC)(link)
I liked Competent!John, rescuing his own darned self, the shoutout to Common Ground with the bargain with the Wraith, and John's team not giving up on him and coming to rescue him.

But now that you've pointed it out, it would have been nice if the Travelers would have been a unique society. Somebody was lazy....

You should definitely write the Travelers as they were meant to be written! ::nods firmly::
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:20 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I really DID enjoy seeing smart, resourceful John in action -- his trick with the intertial damp(en)ers, fixing the chair, taking out Wraith. But there were so MANY things about the episode I didn't like ... it kinda outweighed the better bits when I look back on it.

I don't know if I want to write about the Travelers or not, because everything I can think of would involve changing them so drastically that I may as well make up my own society and give it a new name. *g* Maybe I could write about a splinter group of Travelers that they haven't met yet...

[identity profile] kristen999.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:23 am (UTC)(link)
I didn't dislike it as much as you, but the eppy did have faults. I never felt any real danger from either the Travelers or the Wraith. Larrin is a better SGA female character thus far with her being strong willed and faithful to her people and we're meant to like her in a small way, but I didn't for the most part.

I did think she made a cool foil to Sheppard with the cat and mouse games. And as you pointed out and I mentioned in my own LJ loved intelligent!Sheppard fixing the tech, out smarting Larrin with tactics...but there was something off about the pace.

I loved the Team!Concern for the worst rescue mission ever! But the fleet of jumpers and Ronon's remark about fidning him no matter what was squeeful.

Sheppard showed no effects from the radation and a BIG knock on Larrin for sacrificing her own people like that.

And there was no lasting bruising.

I thought the episode was fun but considering WHO wrote it...I'm not too surprised. Sadly I think its Joe M's best written eppy but thats not saying a lot.

I had fun, it was cool to see a mostly Shep eppy, but I do miss the team. So I was at a cross roads.

I'll watch it again but not as much as DG.
ext_1981: (Who-Rose)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:31 am (UTC)(link)
I wanted to like Larrin, I tried to like Larrin ... but I just didn't ever really feel anything for her (other than annoyance, in places). There were times when the episode would almost have me hooked in and engaged -- like, as you mentioned, some of the cat-and-mouse scenes -- and then I'd feel like it just blew the suspense and had to start over. I loved seeing Sheppard in his "smart, competent" mode; but I hated having the team separated for the whole episode. I think I might've liked the episode better if the team had managed to hook up halfway through.

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[identity profile] blade-girl.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:31 am (UTC)(link)
Agree with pretty much all you said. I didn't like Larrin at all, though - I'm really, really sick of the twenty-something hot chick leading an entire people. Couldn't we have a woman who actually looks like someone with the life experience to lead a whole society? Who doesn't dress like Space Warrior Barbie and use American slang?

Man, my loathing for Mallozzi and Mullie just grows and grows...
ext_1981: (Teyla eeeee)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
I wouldn't say that I loathe them. But the utter WASTEAGE of the Travelers, a really cool idea with so much potential, on a bunch of generic Buck Rogers escapees, makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Or bang someone else's head against a wall, perhaps. Space Warrior Barbie. Heh. I really tried to keep an open mind on her, but about 2/3 of the way through, I just gave up.

[identity profile] bbuttercup.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
I am pretty ambivalent about the episode. I wasn't really impressed with L, she annoyed me most of the time, but- Sheppard, throwing himself down on the cell bunk in a sulk made me laugh; he looked like such a little kid.

I think that perhaps a few female writers on the staff would probably give us a more realistic female characters. Do they even have female script writers? :o)
ext_1981: (BH-Mitchell smile)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:03 am (UTC)(link)
As far as I know, the writing staff is all male. I really balk at criticising them just on those grounds, because I can see no reason why a male writer should not be able to write female characters just fine. But most of the time, they don't live up to that expectation, alas.

"Ambivalent" might describe my reactions to the episode too, because just a few tweaks could have pushed it over into the "like" category (though I don't think this would ever be an episode I'd love, at least not without a massive script rewrite and some casting changes!).

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[identity profile] marf-the-river.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:17 am (UTC)(link)
I quite liked the episode, mostly for the funnies and the fact that I was taking a break from studying and NOT thinking at all, just enjoying TV for Attractive People's sake, though The Woman using the LSD was a bit of a "woah, what the hell?" moment.

That being said, the major problem I could see with it was that it wasn't trying to do anything, and I do believe we've been spoiled with SGA eps trying to say something or go somewhere. This was just 45 minutes of entertainment, which, hey, I am certainly not going to refuse, but I could have more Team next time.
ext_1981: (Owen)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I think actually, looking back on it, that a lot of my unhappiness with the episode stemmed from two sources of dissatisfaction. One is that we've just been getting a whole lot more from the episodes lately; the other is a purely personal thing, that if *I* had been writing it (which I'm not *g*), the Travelers and Lirrin would have been dealt with very differently from how the show's writer's did it, and this was very much in the forefront of my mind throughout the episode. Which isn't necessarily the writers' fault.

[identity profile] alipeeps.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:32 am (UTC)(link)
Bummer. I loved it. I seriously did. Loved having an almost completely Shep-focused ep (kinda like Shep's version of GUP or TRW). Wouldn't want that every week as I do love my team but it felt long overdue to have an ep that focused almost all the screentime on Sheppard and the B plot was the team's need to find him. I actually rather liked Larrin and enjoyed she and Sheppard's combative relationship.. yeah, i guess it was kinda cheesy but hey, I'm okay with that. Most of all, I loved Sheppard in this episode. I loved the whump - well, duh! ;) - and I loved him snarking even through torture ("No, your knuckles'll get sore eventually.." :D), I loved him being smart (while pretending to be dumb) and outwitting the bad guys and being uber-competent and operating - and yes, fixing! - Lantean technology. So nice to see that referenced Mensa-level intelligence being used. TPTB do play Sheppard for laughs a lot of the time and it was good to see him using his brain... and that he can do just fine with technological stuff... it's just that he doesn't usually bother.. why would he when he's got Rodney around? :)

I actually felt in this episode that we caught another little glimpse of the very competent, actually-quite-scary-when-he-wants-to-be Sheppard from The Storm and The Eye - thinking on his feet, working alone and outnumbered to neutralise the bad guys. Oh and I liked seeing the team's concern for Sheppard expressed... I mean how many times have we seen him express, in words or deeds, the lengths he would go to to save or protect his family? SO nice to hear that reciprocated.

So yeah, I guess there were a coupla plot holes here and there but I enjoyed the overall episode so much that I am happy to overlook them.

Sorry you didn't feel the same way hon. :/
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:49 am (UTC)(link)
I'm sorry I didn't like it as much as you did! I think part of the problem has to do with me getting hung up on certain aspects of the episode (in this case, it started off with a huge load of frustration with the portrayal of the Travelers and with Lirrin) and having that overshadow the parts that I *did* like. But I did really love Sheppard in this, and actually, reading other people's episode reactions keeps reminding me that the episode did have quite a bit to recommend it. I agree with you, it was lovely to see Sheppard in his Storm/Eye/Defiant Ones mode: competent, smart, snarky, capable of getting himself out of tough situations without needing to be rescued. And I've just been looking over this lovely picspam (http://a-pilgrim-soul.livejournal.com/53789.html), which is happily reminding me that there doesn't really NEED to be a plot if there is this much eye candy to look at! (And no, I am not referring to Lirrin. *g*)

I'm glad other people liked it. My husband hasn't seen it yet, so I'll end up watching it with him at some point, and I might like it better on the second go-round.

[identity profile] mitchy.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
I had problems too but different ones to yours. First of all, I never even noticed the whole lack of culture thing because really, we didn't see enough to tell. Most of the action was on the Ancient ship, which obviously wouldn't look lived in.

No, my problems were with Sheppard, yet again, being forced by the script into the James T Kirk role. Puh-lease! They've referenced this in other episodes, I know, and it's been played for a joke, but here it really grated. The whole "lure him into kissing the woman and then she steals the gun and stuns him" had me throwing things at the screen. I would really like, for once, for the male lead not to be portrayed as so sure of his own charms that he would fall for that.

The other major gripe is to do with the fact that at no time did we see Sam. She's in charge now, how the hell would she NOT have been involved at any point in the search and rescue? But of course, because Amanda Tapping is only contracted for certain number of episodes, the character has to be conspicuously absent at stupid times *grrr* It's not that I'm such a huge fan of the character, it just makes a mockery of the whole storyline not to see the person in charge actually taking part in the hunt for the senior military officer.

And generally, the story was lame. I'm disappointed with this one. I think it'll go on my "don't bother unless really bored list", which is slightly better than "only watch if the alternative is to have bamboo splinters driven into nails" list (Tower, Irresistible, Irresponsible) :)

[identity profile] alipeeps.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:00 am (UTC)(link)
I have to agree on one point there.. it did kinda jarr to me that there was no sign or mention of Sam. I know there are huge issues in fandom right now about her being in SGA etc but regardless of whether fans want to see her there or not, from a logic standpoint, it did seem very odd to have a major situation on the base with the second in command of the entire expedition missing, presumed kidnapped, and the commander of the base seemingly not even involved in the discussions of what to do about this. I guess one has to assume those discussion happened off screen but based on what we saw, it looked as those Rodney and co were just running round making their own decisions about what to do without any reference to the command structure. So yeah... that was one of those plot holes that niggled a little but that I was happy to overlook in my sheer joy at the rest of the episode.. :)

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[identity profile] derry667.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:43 am (UTC)(link)
I have to admit that I enjoyed watching it - but mostly for the "character moments" between various Atlantis team members. John and Rodney, of course. But also Lorne, just being loyal dependable Lorne. And Teyla! I cracked up when at the very end, Rodney complains that when he get's taken hostage it's always by the Wraith and dammit he wants to be captures by the hot alien chick! But what really pushed me over the edge into squee-fullness at that moment was Teyla's wonderfully eloquent eyeroll at the boys and their antics.

The plot? I kept thinking, "hey, they did this already with Daniel and Vala" without even considering how generically space opera it was.

No, there was nothing original, nothing thought provoking, no really a believable new "race" of humans introduced and not interesting twist at the end. The plot didn't really offer anything. But the Atlanteans kept me entertained.

And yeah, it was nowhere near as annoying as "Irresponsible".
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 01:55 am (UTC)(link)
I've been reflecting on why my reaction to the episode was as negative as it was. I think a lot of the problem was that I got hung up really early on my "aaaargh!" reaction to the portrayal of the Travelers and to Lirrin, and I never really got past that -- because reading other people's episode reactions is reminding me that there was actually quite a lot in the episode that was fun and entertaining ... I just couldn't get past the parts I didn't really like. (And I still think the end of the main action arc fell horribly flat.)

But yes, the Atlanteans were fun, and even though I usually prefer them playing off each other to going off on solo adventures, I did really enjoy seeing John get to go through his paces -- smart, competent, snarky and capable of rescuing himself without needing the cavalry (which turned out to be a good thing).

I far and away preferred the Daniel and Vala version (and yes, I did notice that it was basically the exact plot while I was watching!) because that episode was so much funnier -- it was basically a parody of this sort of thing, and it worked much better for me because it didn't take itself seriously. But I think I'm slowly coming around on it, at least to the point where I might re-watch it later (husband hasn't seen it yet) and try to see it in a better light now that I know what to expect.

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[identity profile] iamrighthere.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:00 am (UTC)(link)
The Travelers are supposed to be scavengers. Larrin's got a Satedan gun, but that's the only indication that they do, in fact, pilfer from culled worlds. Their ship ought to have been a hodge-podge of collected things but, as you say, it's pretty much a generic spaceship with no distinguishing features. How cool would it have been to have familiar junk lying around as call-backs from previous episodes (specifics escape me at the moment)? So, nothing about the Traveler's culture-in-space intrigued me.

Second...the premise. In order to have anything to hang an episode on, you first have to get the viewer to buy in to what you're selling. The Travelers live in space and, supposedly, pick up stuff here and there for their own use. I'll buy that. They hear about people who can make Ancient ships run, so they decide to get Sheppard to help them. Check. Then (and this is brought up at the end of the episode) they torture Sheppard and try to force him into helping them...when (duh!) they could have simply asked for his help and started whumping him only after he refused. Which he probably wouldn't have done. So, ergo and therefore, the premise was faulty.

Third...Larrin. Hot chick wearing leather and heels? Spare me. Again. If only Vala were there instead.

Fourth...the Wraith gives Larrin back her life and then he walks away and...where does he go? Okay, he's got a dart somewhere, but, honestly, it looked like he ducked out to use the loo or something. So not interesting. A poorly directed part of the scene. Or maybe it was the script. Whatever.

On the up side, I enjoyed Sheppard's obvious delight in sticking it to Larrin and the other guys. He is so in his element because after so many harrowing adventures, this one has got to be a cakewalk for him.

PS: Great review/critique!
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:09 am (UTC)(link)
I think it was the generic-space-opera handling of the Travelers that started me off on the wrong foot with the episode, and it just kept getting worse the deeper we got. I loved the idea of them, loathed the execution of that idea. Right now I'm torn between writing a tag to actually develop them the way they ought to be, or just saying "screw it" and coming up with my own space gypsies, which is basically what I'd be doing if I tried to write about them anyway.

Also, I don't think that's a Satedan gun; I'm pretty sure that Ronon's gun was picked up in his travels. It's different from the guns we saw the Satedans using in flashbacks, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense (to me) that the Wraith would have let him keep a weapon when they captured him. I think the Travelers are the original makers of the gun -- and there's another source of frustration, because I DON'T think they are really meant to be scavengers, but rather, makers of high technology themselves. I'm pretty sure they are intended to be the builders and inventors of the ships and other tech that they're using. But they don't have the infrastructure to build such things. Protecting their high tech from Wraith by traveling between the stars is all well and good, but where are their shipyards? Their mines? *sigh*

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[identity profile] tipper-green.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:05 am (UTC)(link)
Much better thought out reason for why the Travelers felt so FLAT to me. You are seriously awesome, you know that? Everything you said...I just wanted to hug you for your brilliance.

Just thought you should know that.
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:25 am (UTC)(link)
Why, thank you! Tips and donations are cheerfully accepted.

... er, seriously, thanks. I think I'm starting to, well, maybe not quite come around on the episode, but managing to become a little more focused on its good points and less on its shortcomings as I'm reading other people's episode reactions. Because it was really lovely to see Sheppard getting to be competent and smart and capable of saving himself without needing to be rescued. I think I'm always going to hate certain things about it, but I'm not sure if it was as awful as I'd thought at first. My husband still has to see it, so I'm going to have to er, get to sit through it again fairly soon, and I guess I'll see if I like it better on the second go-around.

I think I'm getting more nitpicky and less forgiving of the show's portrayal of alien cultures as it goes on, though, because seriously, they were doing WAY better in the beginning than they are now, and considering what they gave us with the Athosians wasn't really all that great, it's pretty damn pathetic that it's going downhill. They ought to be getting better at this, not worse.

[identity profile] eretria.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:17 am (UTC)(link)
And someone else chiming in with a different problem with the episode:

Rodney. I'm sorry, hate me all you want, but this Rodney? Felt like a dumbed down version of Rodney. "Oh, there's just nothing we can do." I seriously doubted the writers at that point, and the fact that he did keep looking after all came way too late for the earlier thing not to jar.
And then the final scenes in the jumper - are we to believe that this is the same Rodney who comes up with brilliant plans to save Atlantis time and time again when he doesn't even get close to the idea of hitchhiking on one of those ships in order to stay with John, even though John's already done that before? He seemed so ... unresourceful. Bland. Like the cliche worrying housewife wringing her hands going: Oh, oh, will my loved one return home safely?

I tried to overlook the plotholes of the rest of the episode, and I did rather like the rest, but that? Oh, that was a big fat bummer.
ext_1981: (LoM-Gene)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
Hmm, I hadn't even noticed the Rodney thing. I guess that I was just happy with everyone being out there in the Jumpers, looking for Sheppard. Well, that and generally too distracted by my loathing for other aspects of the episode to be paying a whole lot of attention ...

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[identity profile] wraithfodder.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:41 am (UTC)(link)
You hit on some very good points, stuff I didn't think of probably becuase when I saw who wrote the episode, I instantly thought I should my expectations accordingly *cough*.

Smart Sheppard was the biggest appeal of this episode - taking over the ship, etc., fixing the chair, and lazy oh gee, what do I do while lying on this cot in the jail cell was just priceless. I can't wait for some hi-rez caps on that scene!

Well, my biggest bugaboo was the lack of acting talent on Jill Wagner. She might be a better actress, don't know (didn't think much of her in the two eps of BLADE I saw) or the direction, definitely some of the writing. Like Lucius, I don't care to see the character return.

Gonna write any fix-its fics on this episode? It screams for them.
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 02:54 am (UTC)(link)
Smart, resourceful Sheppard always rocks my socks, and this episode was no exception. The scene where he flopped down in the cell was just great; I think I've gushed at length in the past about JoeF's emotive versatility, so it need not be repeated here. *g*

I hate the whole concept of fix-it fics, but I must admit that writing something with a more, er, believable version of the Travelers is awfully tempting!

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[identity profile] leenys.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 03:00 am (UTC)(link)
I posted something similar to this somewhere, but thought I'd post it here. Basically, I couldn't sit all the way through it. Just couldn't do it. I skimmed it.

I loved "Prometheus Unbound" on SG1, because of what they did with Vala. They turned an old plot into a suspenseful comedy, and it worked. This...I don't see the point of this episode in the least.

I read the post about Rodney being dummed down, and I agree. Lately he's either irritatingly brilliant, or acts stupid. Come on, writers, a little consistency?

Noticed the lack of Carter as well, and was a bit surprised. I kept waiting for the obligatory "walk beside the head-honcho and give an update before she gives the SGA version of 'make it so' and disappears into her office" scene. I love how they're putting her in the show, I think this is a great character move, and I was shocked that I actually missed her appearance. She fits in too well.

But overall...I kept watching the team. When it went back to Butch and Bimbo, I passed over it.

And the way the Travelers should have been...yesyesyes! Space gypsies would have been awesome!!

Looking forward to next week!

ext_1981: (Owen)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 03:03 am (UTC)(link)
I'm completely unspoiled about next week -- aside from a few random spoilers here and there, we're basically through the part of the new season that I knew stuff about, so I'm bouncing with glee!

I, too, liked Prometheus Unbound a lot better, because that was a parody of this sort of thing, where they tried to play it straight here and I just didn't really like how it came out.

Maybe I should write that Traveler-centric tag that is bouncing around in the back of my head. I'm just not sure if I can do it while keeping them consistent with how they were shown in the episode.

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[identity profile] sgatazmy.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 03:46 am (UTC)(link)
Yup, the episode was wholly unoriginal and blah. Completely with you there. The only part I really got a kick out of was Sheppard using The head of the Fantastic Four (reed Richards) as his fake name. I loved thee fake names coming from comics/tv shows being made canon. But the rest, blah.
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 04:29 am (UTC)(link)
I did like that bit! There really *were* quite a few nifty/cute scenes involving Sheppard in this one. It was nice to see him get to do a whole range of stuff, from Commando!Sheppard to smart technology-fixing Sheppard, in one episode. I just wish it had been a *better* episode...

[identity profile] parisntripfan.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 03:56 am (UTC)(link)
I am not sure I hated it as much as you did, but I do agree there were some real problems with the story...and that this was easily the weakest of the episodes aired so far this season. May this be worst we see.

I hadn't thought about what the Traveler's could be, but you are right. It did strike me as odd that we only saw three of them...if every ship was so important why were they are only three people on such a big ship? Shouldn't there have been more people? Even if you didn't want to show the families, you could have shown the a larger crew? I get that sometimes the rules of TV production hinder things like this, but there are ways to show this that don't cost an arm and leg. A brief scene while Sheppard was being escorted to the head lady's quarter could have shown us that these ships were these peoples homes.

That said, there were several things I did like. SmartSheppard was one of them, though I too would have liked to see Sheppard mutter something about Rodney or one of the other geeks (even if was to say that fixing the things wasn't as hard as they made it out to be)

Reed Richards made me giggle...SGA seems to going to comics where SG-1 went to TV shows. If it had been Rodney I think he would have come up with Bruce Wayne...(if he even could think of something like that...that sort of thing is not Rodney's forte.

I also enjoyed the stuff with the team. I liked how Rodney didn't really give up - even when he said there was nothing they could do. I loved how Sheppard was able to rig the transmitter to send a signal and that he trusted that someone on Atlantis would get it and recognize it for what it was.

And I loved the end. Teyla's eyeroll when Rodney complains about never being taking hostage by the good looking alien was just perfect.

And I was thinking...I wonder if part of it was exceptions. I went into this episode with rather low exceptions and was worried that the entire episode Sheppard and Lirrin - only going back to Atlantis when the episode ended. So I was pleased with the amount of the other characters we did see- even if the plot and the main guest character left me sort of "meh" Just a thought...
ext_1981: (BH-Mitchell smile)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 04:36 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure how much of a role expectations played in this. Knowing what little I did know about the episode, I had the same worry that you did, about the entire episode being carried by Sheppard and Lirrin -- not that I have anything against Sheppard; I love seeing each of the characters getting their turn in the spotlight, but not if it means the rest of them aren't in it at all.

I think I did allow myself to get very hung up on how much I hated the portrayal of Traveler society, to the extent that it colored how I felt about the rest of the episode. I'm not sure how I would've felt about it if it hadn't had that shadow hanging over it (for me).

[identity profile] dovil.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 05:20 am (UTC)(link)
I actually quite enjoyed it, just because it was such a brains on hold pretty banter fest, but I have to admit the ending just puttered out for me and it felt like it should have been a two-parter. It was all set-up with no real satisfying resolution.
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 06:32 am (UTC)(link)
Yes! The ending really just flopped. There was no real climax!

It hasn't been the first episode where they've done that, but I think this might be the one that bothered me most.

[identity profile] with-apostrophe.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 05:58 am (UTC)(link)
I think your major problem with this is related to my major problem with "The Tower". I hate "The Tower" because of the seriously dodgy anachronistic portrayal of medieval feudal society (and many, many other reasons). You hate this episode because of your ideas about what the Traveller Society could be like. I hadn't thought about it.

It's sad that people expect to hate episodes by these two writers, because they have done excellent episodes too - "Home" and "Reunion" come to mind.

So it wasn't a master piece. I still found Sheppard entertaining and we discovered more about what the Chair(S) can and can't do. (Yes, I am unable to remove my "Canon vs Fanon" hat at the moment - it's quite sad)

And *eyeroll*!
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 06:36 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I think that's quite a valid comparison. For some reason, Tower didn't make me shriek (even though I know quite a few people who had serious problems with it) but this one just set my teeth on edge!

I don't hate Mallozzi and Mullie on general principles, the way some fans seem to. On the other hand, it *is* rather a shame that they happen to be the writers who pen most of the really weak episodes in the series.

... and I actually was thinking that we now have just a little bit more Chair-canon for you to work with! Ha, we are very sad indeed. I'm looking forward to the rest of your canon/fanon series.
ext_3572: (Default)

[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 06:28 am (UTC)(link)
...you mean your inner anthropology geek is still conscious??? After all these seasons? How?! (I'm sorry, but after season 1 I had to shut mine off into a little tiny box without air, because otherwise the wailing and gnashing of teeth got so loud I couldn't hear the cute teaminess! [livejournal.com profile] naye and I have come up with a theory that the Ancients are still hanging around the Pegasus galaxy, stunting and pruning and manipulating human societies, to explain why they don't act human...)

The one fanwank that I can think of is that this space-gypsy race, being pretty advanced, actually has a military of their own, which Larrin & everyone else we saw were part of. So the ship which first took Sheppard was a military vessel, not a civilian habitat, and Larrin and her crew were also military do-whatever's-necessary types, hence the willing sacrifice of her people.

Speaking of willing sacrifice, anyone know why the Wraith usually self-destruct, but this one was willing to do whatever Sheppard told it to do? It's interesting (and by 'interesting' I mean somewhat flawed in the writing) that not only is Sheppard treating Wraith differently (which makes sense; he's seeing them more as enemies in war, less as inhuman monsters) but the Wraith are actually behaving differently...

In all honesty I didn't mind the ep...didn't love it but didn't despise it. Sheppard got to be snarky and cute and that works for me, and the teaser and tag were adorable. But I do love nitpicking things! Let's hope this was the season's low point and it rises back up to its former level!
ext_1981: (SGA-dorks)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 06:44 am (UTC)(link)
Speaking of willing sacrifice, anyone know why the Wraith usually self-destruct, but this one was willing to do whatever Sheppard told it to do?

Aargh! Don't point out MORE things about this episode that don't make sense! *sobs*

... yeah, I am not really sure why 9 times out of 10, I can just go, "Oh, it doesn't make sense, but I don't care..." and then an episode will come along that I just can't manage to fanwank away. Part of the problem with this one was that I was just so very taken with the idea of space gypsies and then the way they were handled in the episode was so BLOODY STUPID. But perhaps the big problem is that it just didn't have enough cute teaminess to make up for the stupid. Especially after last week, which set new standards of squee.

But yes, there was lots of adorable Sheppard, which was fun.

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[identity profile] beckiezra.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 06:37 am (UTC)(link)
Wow, I hadn't really thought about the Traveler culture. I assumed the exposed wires were their way of making the ship look lived in. :p I was a little blah about the show just from the previews; ship nomads made me think it was a rip off of BG which I only know from commercials. Now I really want to read your version of space gypsies! I think I'd prefer an entirely new people or a long separated splinter group (maybe some people who were dumped on the ground in some previous population control attempt were able to build their own ships (using those missing mines and shipyards you mentioned) and return to the stars...) because I just can't imagine making something good out of what we were given. At the same time I kind of felt like it was all just an introduction to these people and they would be developed more in some future episode since I assume the lady is there to stay.

Speaking of her, I really didn't think she was the leader of all the people, I thought she was a random step in the ladder that was assigned abuse the prisoner duty. Maybe the equivalent of Sheppard but within the entire military rather than a single base. Did they say she was the leader of everyone and I missed it?

I agree with what someone earlier said about the premise being flawed. I wasn't convinced there was any reason for beating up John instead of asking him first. Like they couldn't punch him just as much if he said no? At the same time I was shaking my head at Sheppard and saying just tell them who you are, there's no reason not to say your name (which is probably why no one tells me important military secrets). Yay for the Fantastic Four reference! I still don't buy John as Reed though... And for all that he said he couldn't trust people who kidnapped, tortured (and how bad is it that I think, bah, he got punched a few times, that's not torture!), etc him, he was getting along well with her and willing to work with her with no apparent bad feelings. And no I don't buy drastic times mean drastic measures. It was an Aurora-class ship which means it could hold a bunch of people, and you're telling me there's only one passageway to get to the control room? There's no way to walk around the wraith? There's no way to keep her trapped? It's not like John's planning on taking the ship home (well knowing him he may've been), let her keep blowing holes in locked doors. Gah, what kind of giant ship only has one hallway to the control room? The one wraith was able to navigate just fine to cut her off but she who has studied this ship can't figure out another way?

I don't know if it was here or somewhere else that I read someone wondering why John didn't kill the wraith, but I thought it was all a bluff, the blaster was out of juice from earlier.

I was jarred by the sudden anyone can use Ancient stuff when someone else starts it. I didn't even notice it when Zelenka apparently did it in Reunion, but I very much was wondering what she was doing. I was even more thrown by the thought that the wraith would be able to fly the ship. If they start letting everyone fly jumpers... Sometimes I think shows need insane fan fact checkers to keep things consistent. What's the point of the interface at all if they just need Sheppard to think on and it'll work forever more?

Dumb Rodney I didn't notice throughout the episode, but I was ready to punch him at the end when the ships got away. Hello, can't you tell when ships are about to jump into hyperspace?! Overall the rescue mission was pathetic, but perhaps more reasonable. I wonder if they lose people they never get good explanations for all the time? A galaxy is rather large and if they can't follow warp trails or whatever like Star Trek, how are you going to find someone? How much time was passing? I think it was maybe supposed to be more than they were showing, like days (weeks?) instead of what felt like a single day. Sheppard's comment at the end about appreciating food makes me think that it was supposed to be a much longer period of time in retrospect, at the time I thought you can't be that happy for Atlantis food after just one look at black jello...

[identity profile] beckiezra.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 06:37 am (UTC)(link)
It's probably an indication I'm saying too much and shouldn't post this at all, but I'm going to split the comment anyway because I already wrote it all...

I agree that the lack of Sam was bothersome. You personally deal with bad dreams but can't be bothered when the head of the base's military disappears? Bad time to try to satisfy people angry that Sam came to the show. If anything I think maybe this episode should've been before she took over Atlantis, then it would all make sense, except then I'd want some extra panic from Rodney or more leader-like behavior from Teyla...

They are going to take my whump appreciation license away, I found the very long blood drool unpleasant. I don't know if their blood is just looking more realistic this season or what, but I didn't particularly like Ronon's bleeding back in Reunion either. I guess I only like the bloodiness I don't really picture when reading fanfic.

Final thought (finally! you say), I didn't hate this episode or anything, but I did find myself often thinking, this is a Sheppard episode, it's about him getting to do everything, you'll get your interactions and banter again next time, remember not everyone loves all Rodney all the time. :)

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[identity profile] bramble-rose.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 07:28 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry you didn't enjoy it, and that may change because others have said their impressions changed a lot on 2nd viewing. My angsty hurt/comfort soul LOVED this episode :-)

I'm thinking at the end the Travellers dumped Sheppard out because he activated some ancient tech that let them see that there were a whole horde of invisible ancient ships getting ready to blast their little armada to pieces to retrieve Sheppard...which made me & him both teary eyed *g* (hey, my fantasy & I'm sticking with it)

Larrin's tough as nails approach wasn't a bother, and the whole glued together look of the ships lends to the image of infrastructure barely hanging together.

*blinks* Sam was missing? I didn't miss her at all, and was happy Rodney was leading the search. If this is the weakest episode this year, then I'm one happy camper.

Team togetherness at the end *hearts*
ext_1981: (BH-Mitchell smile)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 05:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I do think my attitude towards the episode was heavily influenced by having gotten hung up fairly early on certain things (like Traveler culture) that really bugged me. But I'll see how I feel about it on the second go-around.

I'm pretty sure that she let Sheppard go as part of their bargain, though, because even though he did try to escape, she had promised that if he helped with their control interface, they'd release him after they could fly the ship. And obviously they could fly the ship when they jumped into hyperspace. I'm really not sure if four or five puddlejumpers would intimidate someone whose ships were so much bigger!
naye: A cartoon of a woman with red hair and glasses in front of a progressive pride flag. (atlantis - um)

[personal profile] naye 2007-10-28 08:55 am (UTC)(link)
Oh - I'd love to see Space Travelers culture done right! The entire writing staff could benefit from even a couple of minutes with an anthropology geek, and this was definitely no exception. The one thing that makes me kind of able to ignore the lack of, uh... anything cultural, really, is that we don't know for sure that the ship Sheppard was on was actually one of their Home vessels. Simply not showing is not enough to totally screw up the coolness that they could have been.

Her holding the LSD, though, (and her knowledge of Ancient tech, unless they have other Aurora-class ships in their convoy?) - that made me whimper. THREE SEASONS they managed to go without messing up that one little bit of continuity - you'd think the exec producers would be aware that it existed!

It also made no sense to me that they left Sheppard go. There could have been a reason - the episode wasn't fast-paced enough that they couldn't have fit a short scene there at the end... but there's just - what? Letting him go out of the kindness of their hearts? Even if it had just been Larrin acknowledging that she owed him one... Anything could have happened off-screen, and there's a lot of things John wouldn't necessarily share with the rest of his team (though he probably has to give up all the details in the formal debriefing), but the lack of resolution is making me twitchy, rather than happy to have something to speculate on.

I also think the episode suffers hugely from being the one to follow Doppelganger, and taking the route of no team interaction at all. I honestly don't think it was a bad episode - it could easily have been made better by something as simple as better casting, for example. But it's... it felt like a rough draft of a cool episode, rather than the realized cool episode, if that makes sense? So many little improvements (John mentioning Rodney when he's fixing the chair, for example) could so easily have made it a lot more enjoyable for everyone, but... it didn't.

And I can't hate it for it, because it's not like the ideas presented in it, and it's not that I don't appreciate the fact that Larrin is one of those female leaders I've been wanting to see more of... but. I sincerely hope that whatever happened to make Travelers so flat won't happen to any other scripts this season! M&M did a fantastic job on Reunion - and Joe M seemed very pleased with it. I'm being half-glass-full and crossing my fingers that this means that we've now seen the low point of the season. Because that I could definitely live with!
ext_1981: (BH-Mitchell smile)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 05:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm pretty sure that they let John go as part of their bargain -- because they said they'd keep him until they got a working control interface, and, well, they obviously had one when the ship jumped into hyperspace, so Lirrin (or whatever her name is; I really have no clue how to spell it!) kept her end of the bargain and released him. I just wish we'd gotten to see it; I'm sure they were trying to go for suspense there, but it ended up just being massively anti-climactic, like the end scene in Misbegotten when the Daedalus shows up and thinks they're all dead and ... nope, just hiding in the rubble, didn't have any problems at all actually. *g* I didn't find that Lirrin letting him go was especially unconvincing, just ... very unexciting.

I am also kind of torn on how to feel about John rescuing himself. On the one hand, I like that he's all resourceful and smart and can get out of a bad spot. On the other hand ... the John solo eps always end that way (he rescued himself in Common Ground, and he'd probably have gotten himself out in Epiphany if they'd spent another hour or two out in the real world) and, while I appreciate that they paid lip service to his team coming to save him, his team are actually turning out to be the worst rescue party of all time! (Of course, this comes right on the heels of Rodney saving John in Doppelganger, and he really can't need to be rescued ALL the time ... which is why I'm torn, because damn it, I would have adored a team rescue scene, a la what Rodney got in Grace Under Pressure, but on the other hand, I love resourceful, competent John and it's nice to see that he doesn't just sit around and wait for rescue -- probably good, since rescue wasn't forthcoming! -- so, yeah. Torn.)

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[identity profile] jimandblair.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 09:24 am (UTC)(link)
I watched it and felt, quite frankly, that it was dull and badly written. It was a boring, “boys’ own adventure” type story. I went back to see who wrote and it was the authors of such travesties as the ‘Tower’ and ‘Irresponsible’ episodes, colour me surprised.

Problems:
- none of the threats were real, Sheppard was only playing cat and mouse. There’s lackadaisical and there’s comatose.

- inconsistency in the gene usage.

- the pacing was incredibly uneven. At the end I thought that we were going to be forced to watch a two parter.

- Larrin = Mallozzi Sue.

[identity profile] sp23.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
- Larrin = Mallozzi Sue.

ROFLMAO! This is the best comment I've seen regarding this episode. *g*

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ext_2909: (Default)

[identity profile] deaka.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 10:24 am (UTC)(link)
That first one is exactly what I was complaining about as well - there are so many possibilities with that kind of space nomad culture, and they were barely acknowledged, let alone explored. It wouldn't have been hard to do it, either - I wasn't wanting an in-depth anthropological profile, just a glimpse of some kind of background. Anything, really. *eyeroll*

And I wish they would give Sheppard something to do character-wise other than fall in love with the random guest star of the week in his focus eps. It's such a cliche, and they know it (why else reference it all the time, a la Rodney's Kirk comments, and the 'hot alien chick' line at the end of this episode?).

I didn't hate it, but I wish it could have been up to the same standard as the rest of the season so far. So, no disagreement with your thoughts here. ;)
ext_1981: (Team-4 of a kind)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 05:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I think honestly, if they'd done at least a little bit of justice to Traveler culture, I would've been much more forgiving of the faults in the rest of the episode. THAT was where it lost me, in the first ten minutes when they raised the possibility of this fantastic, interesting culture and then delivered a generic spaceship and crew instead. Everything from there on out was me trying to get over that disappointment, and getting frustrated with all the many little ways that the episode didn't deliver.

[identity profile] foliogal.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 11:30 am (UTC)(link)
No, I'm gonna tell you it sucked just as much as you thought it did. :)
ext_1981: (Team-4 of a kind)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2007-10-28 05:50 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL!

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