sholio | SGA 4x03: Reunion

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episode reactions:sga

SGA 4x03: Reunion

I really liked this episode. I liked the way that they played up the conflict, both within the team and with their new leader, but not in a forced or "here's the good guys, here's the bad guys" kind of way. (Speaking of bad guys, I saw the betrayal coming a LOOOOONG ways off, and I kinda hoped that just for once the "long lost old friends who woo away the main character" would turn out NOT to be total bastards and he'd choose to come back on his own. But still, the beat-down was awesome and the "Where are your friends/Right here" exchange was love.)

But anyway, one of the things I really like about this show is that the characters don't always march in lockstep. They are very different people, with different drives pulling them in different directions. It was nice to see those conflicts come to the fore ... but without breaking up the friendship, awwww.

The introduction of Carter into a leadership role was, IMHO, perfectly done -- she's assertive but not obnoxious, kind of uncertain, trying to make her authority felt without pushing too hard. And TEAAALLLL'C! (Sorry. Fangirl moment. *squees quietly*) Anyway, I loved the tearful goodbye scene with Carter and Teal'c; it's too bad that we didn't see all of SG-1, but I really loved that we did get that peek into her life back on Earth and her sorrow at leaving her team behind. (And honestly, if it had to be just one of them, I loved that it was Teal'c, because ever since "Undending" I've been totally grooving on his friendship with her and even sort of vaguely shipping them a little bit, to the extent that I ever do anyhow.)

The one thing that bugged me a little about the Carter introduction is that the military thing is never even mentioned, and I'd think that would be a really big deal -- because it was always a fairly big deal that Atlantis was a civilian expedition, not a military one, and having an active member of the U.S. military in charge, even if she's not officially acting in that capacity ... it is a big thing and it would change the way that other Earth governments relate to Atlantis, I'd think, as well as the whole feel of the place. One of the things I always liked about SG-1 is that they did deal with that stuff, the political behind-the-scenes and the way that other nations felt about the U.S. having a Stargate monopoly. That it wasn't addressed here, even in so much as a throwaway line of dialogue, felt like an oversight.

However, they did bring up John's desire to rescue Elizabeth, and again, I just loved the way that scene was played -- you got the idea that he'd been holding back on a rescue mission because of his responsibility to Atlantis, but now that he was no longer in charge, he's jumping back into "no man left behind!" and oh, the look on his face when she told him no -- he is not happy, and I foresee many ... interesting discussions in their future.

And speaking of John, and facial expressions, and body language -- once again, wonderful handling of the subtle-yet-strong friendship dynamic ... the scene in the cafeteria, and then the one where Ronon tells him he's leaving the team ... oh, John. (And Rodney taking Ronon's painting, and then giving it back using Teyla as a proxy ... I loved that, because it's so subtle, especially since we never saw Rodney in that scene at all -- and yet so blatant, because it's a horribly ugly painting and not even remotely the sort of thing Rodney would ever want, which means that he only wanted it to remember Ronon by, but doesn't want to give it back to his face because that would mean admitting it. Awwwwwww!)

And more awwwwww! for the scene where they wake up in the Wraith cell, because was it just me, or did John squeeze Rodney's hand when he's waking up? I re-watched that scene, er, a few times, trying to catch that bit (the hands are mostly behind the cage bars, unfortunately) but that's sure what it looked like. If he didn't squeeze his hand, then he certainly had his fingers resting against Rodney's ...

And more awwww! and also, squee! for more Teyla/Ronon friendship scenes. I loved that she accompanied him offworld to check out the rumors of more of his people. And her little smack-down in the gym to get him to open up and talk about what was bothering him ... HEEEEEEEE!

Zelenka has gotten much better at doing offworld stuff, hasn't he? This is the guy who was freaking out in Duet ... and now he's accompanying the military on a raid on a Wraith research lab! (Although he didn't seem to have a gun, which is probably just as well.) But he did have a life signs detector, which was very much a WTF? moment ... but then I got to thinking: has it EVER been established in canon that those only work for someone who has the gene? For three years, I've assumed so when I'm writing fic, and even used it as a plot point in "Fading Sun". But -- have they EVER said, or shown, that only gene-bearers can use them? I can't think of a single time ... it's just that we've only ever seen John or Rodney with them, but that just might be circumstance.

I think that's everything ... well, that and I really liked the one Satedan guy who got away, and I thought he had a fascinating dynamic with Ronon and Teyla both -- so I hope he comes back!

Now I'm off to read other episode reactions and chat about 'em. *g*

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I agree with everything you've said, naturally. I just hearted the Team so much in this episode! Though I ended up with a bunch of big questions (like, how the hell would the Wraith know that *McKay* was the one who altered the Asurans programming? And, on the same topic, if the Wraith knew Atlantis hadn't been destroyed, then why didn't they attack it before? Or do you think this is intel they've only learned since they've been to war with the Wraith? I mean, what, during a dueling scene with some Replicators, the normally silent Asurans let slip that Atlantis is intact and, by the way, McKay reprogrammed us? Inquiring minds want to *know!*)

That was a long parenthetical. LOL!

Oh, and, yeah, they established that the Ancient scanner can only be used by gene carriers. Most obvious moment is in Siege II, when Sheppard meets Everett and shows him the device and hands it over--to find to his surprise that it stays lit in Everett's hand. Everett then tells him that he and his men had the gene therapy. Zelenka should not have been able to use it. Not sure why they didn't just use a tablet in that scene. Ah well. Just another little continuity error that has to be explained away.

Oh dangit, and here I thought I had it all explained away. *g* (And I just made the same error over at your journal!)

You've got a good point about Wraith intel. How the heck WOULD they know that, anyway? Maybe it's just an educated guess based on what they know about the Atlanteans and McKay, but they seemed awfully sure...

Think they can hack the replicators somehow?

You mean, get the information directly from hacking into the Replicators? Hmmm ... it's hard to figure exactly how that would work, but really, it's the only thing that makes SENSE (well, to the extent that it does...) because there is no other way they could possibly have gotten that information otherwise. The Replicators aren't just going to TELL them, and presumably the Atlanteans haven't been just telling everyone they meet. (Although, being THEM? Maybe they have! Rodney in the Athosian village: "You know, I just saved the galaxy by setting the Replicators against the Wraith." Athosians: *tell all their trading partners*)

I am not sure about the first question - unless it was an educated guess on their part. The most likely person to reprogram the Asurans would be someone connected to Atlantis and thanks to their intel from Allies they know that McKay is one of the leading geeks in/on Atlantis.

Yeah, but that's still an educated guess. Admittedly, I guess McKay confirmed it, but the Wraith said it with such assurance. Someone down below suggested that, perhaps, Ronon had bragged to his Satedan friends. That I could see more.

I didn't like the episode much while viewing it - I've decided my problem is with the portrayal of Ronon's ex-team, maybe my subconscious recognition of Iron Chef Sateda (stolen from someone) - but I'm falling in love with reading the squee of others. Must rewatch a third time; I noticed all sorts of stuff the second time through.

One thing I liked that seems unpopular is Rodney's "I'm seeing someone." It seemed very them; cringe-making, but it had to be.

- Helen

I can definitely get that, because like I mentioned above, I saw the betrayal coming from almost the first appearance of Ronon's ex-friends. It's just such a blatantly OBVIOUS plot and it's been done a million times; I really hoped they'd do something different with it this time, but they didn't, so I was content to just sit back and squee over the characters instead. However, I can see how others' mileage may vary on that.

People had a problem with that scene? Really? I'm not sure how anyone would, because it seemed quite in character for both of them (although, Sam REALLY needs to stop being subtle and just tell Rodney to his face that she's not interested -- though, heck, Rodney being Rodney, even THAT might not work). The only thing that rang a false note for me was John giving her Rodney's fruit basket. That just ... it was odd, it didn't seem like something he'd do.

Actually, I didn't have a problem with that scene-I had a problem with a different one. The Sam/Rodney scene in Carter's quarters was awkward, but not as bad as I'd feared - I was afraid of a more public smackdown. I'm glad they didn't go that route. Erm, am I the only one that thinks that a possible interpretation of Rodney's "unrequited lust" line is him speaking of himself and recognizing that he needs to clear the air about that if they're going to work together? Because I'm just having a hard time believing that Rodney is self-deluded enough to deny that he has had lustful feelings for Carter-in fact, he's admitted it. In the past he's always claimed that she returned those feelings but was just hiding it. The term "unrequited" seemed to me to be a recognition of reality. It's just that the way he stumbled over himself Sam ended up misinterpreting him. But I'm probably the only person who thinks that-that's ok.

John giving Rodney her fruit basket didn't seem that odd to me-he had to know that Rodney would see it-it was just kind of a way to get one over on Rodney (remember their little scene giving Elizabeth the performance evals in First Strike?), and maybe also get himself in good with Sam so she'd let him go look for Elizabeth. Because he was definitely trying to sweet-talk her in that balcony scene. :) But I just saw it as part of their on-going competitiveness-they do seem to be a little like brothers in that aspect. :)

Yeah, I know the fruit-basket thing was just another moment in the ongoing Sheppard and McKay game of one-upmanship. *g* It's just that in this case, it seemed a little ... well, juvenile, since she's their boss and they're both going to have to work with her in a professional capacity. And kind of mean, too, since he knows that Rodney has a bit of a thing for her, and stealing Rodney's fruit basket and giving it to his crush seems like a rather underhanded thing to do.

However, it's possible that the more mature Sheppard of the last couple of episodes has just made me forget what a brat he can sometimes be. *g*

*grin* Oh yes, he certainly can be a brat, especially with McKay. I have not forgotten how he acted in Inferno with Norina, whom he knew full-well McKay was attracted to. :)

What was the scene you had a problem with? I don't think you mentioned it in your comment.

Well, I did have an issue with Rodney being so excited about being chosen to be the new leader. Don't get me wrong, I love Rodney, he's my favorite character. And I know that in the show timeline there's apparently been quite some time since Lifeline. But for me it's only been a week, and I had an rather bad reaction to Rodney bouncing around and not showing even the slightest sign of grief for Elizabeth. In any other circumstances, it would be totally Rodney. It's just....they showed us quite well how much Rodney respected and cared about Elizabeth in ToR, FS, and Adrift, not to mention others, but I've seen next to nothing of a reaction from him since his shocked look in the jumper in Lifeline. It just feels like there's something huge missing here. And it bothers me. *shrugs* Oh well. ;)

Well, according to Mallozzi's blog, it's been several weeks since Lifeline. But the show doesn't really indicate that. Personally, I didn't even notice that particular scene (in that context) until people started pointing it out on blogs -- and yeah, they could have made it go down a little better with some sort of indication of where we are on the timeline. For that matter, I wonder how they explained Elizabeth's disappearance to her family, since she's a civilian -- at least when Ford went missing, military do go MIA, but how do they explain it away for a civilian? And we know she's got a mom, who would surely raise a bit of a fuss if her daughter just vanishes. Hmmm ... *contemplates tags*

Zelenka only went into the base with Carter far enough to show here where the power station was. Since the thing he used to find it was the thing in his hand, I do not believe the thing in his hand was a life signs detector. Of course, I can't explain how quickly they found Sheppard and Teyla except that perhaps on the ship, the pilot with the gene spotted the life signs or even the location devices the team carries under their skin (or so i assume) with equipment on the jumper or the eqipment Zelenka had been carrying.

I thought the episode was okay but thought events in the Wraith base were a bit stilted and 'off.' The Wraith actor was terrible. There were some good scenes among the team, though.

Yeah, I was just reading Mallozzi's behind-the-scenes comments on the episode and one thing he said was that it wasn't supposed to be a life signs detector but more like the technology that SG-1 uses. However, either 1) he's rationalizing after-the-fact (quite possible!) or 2) they just need to differentiate the technology a little better, because it really did look like an LSD and I don't seem to be the only person who thought it was one.

I haven't read Mallozzi's comments on the episode so it's interesting that my almost rationlizing was correct. I also thought it was an LSD but I concluded it wasn't from how I saw Z using the device and by events in the episode. Strictly based on how it was used, not how it looked, I don't think Mallozzi was rationalizing. Then again, perhaps he is. It's hard to know. Maybe the error was made by the crew and they gave Nykl the wrong prop?

I agree, though. They need to differentiate the tech better, because, really, the two devices should look much different. I always thought the Ancient LSD looked a little too primitive for something the Ancients would have created.

Your reaction post wasn't up yet when I started writing mine, but as usual, I happily (and squeefully, for the most part) agree with everything you're saying!

The one thing I sort of forgot to mention (discussed it with

shayera after the ep, though) is the whole Carter in charge of Atlantis = military in charge of Atlantis. It kind of bugged me too...

What I was thinking might be going on is that they're not attaching quite as much importance to the position as they used to, now that they're back in touch with Earth. When Elizabeth was chosen to lead the expedition, it was on an indefinite basis, when she might be the decisive authority of Atlantis for years, possibly.

Now, though - if the IOA don't like what Carter does with the city, they could just replace her. I mean, obviously it wouldn't be optimal, but it's not the end of the world if she doesn't work out - and I'm guessing they're keeping an even closer eye on her than they did Elizabeth, and that "working out" mainly means that she won't play favourites with the US military. (Well, that, and not getting the city destroyed.)

She might be the highest authority in Atlantis, but she's not on the top of an enclosed chain of command, like Elizabeth was in the first season. Carter does what the IOA tells her to do - and it does make sense for them to pick someone with a lot of experience with Stargates, aliens, and fighting wars on a galactic scale. Not too many civilians around with that kind of resume, I've got to say...

But, yes. Acknowledging this concern on the show would have been a Good Thing!

(And Rodney taking Ronon's painting, and then giving it back using Teyla as a proxy ... I loved that, because it's so subtle, especially since we never saw Rodney in that scene at all -- and yet so blatant, because it's a horribly ugly painting and not even remotely the sort of thing Rodney would ever want, which means that he only wanted it to remember Ronon by, but doesn't want to give it back to his face because that would mean admitting it. Awwwwwww!)

So much awww! I mean, seriously - it's not like Rodney is some kind of Rygel, scavenging his friends' belongings at any chance he gets... Which means he wanted Ronon's painting because it was Ronon's, which is ADORABLE. And it's incredibly sweet that he's too embarrassed to take it back to Ronon himself, and that Teyla agrees to do it for him... Aww. Teyla talking with Ronon this ep was... incredibly sweet. She was talking, and John was not talking, because John is not very good with words - but very good with looks!

In the cell - I didn't really see any actual touching, but I'm willing to squint and lean sideways and say that it was there. ^_^

Zelenka! In the field! The others were so good about looking after him - I loved that. ♥ He really does come through when he's needed.

I wondered about the thing he was holding, too - was it a life signs detector? Because I'm pretty sure that Siege 1 has a scene with John and the new military guy and John's going to hand him a LSD, but tells him you need the gene for it, and the military guy says that he got the inoculation, and activates it. So maybe what Zelenka was carrying was some kind of non-Ancient tech? A random energy-reading gadget? Ooor the writers screwed up. That's always a possibility. Which is easy enough to ignore, since it wasn't positively identified as a LSD and nothing but...

Oh, and - yay! The Satedan got away. Mmm~. I smell potential!

In the cell - I didn't really see any actual touching, but I'm willing to squint and lean sideways and say that it was there. ^_^

LOL! I may be manufacturing touching where there is none ... but I'm quite shallow that way. ^_^

And it's nice to know it's not just me, on the military thing. But you've got good points. And actually, of the entire SG-1 team, Carter (if I recall correctly) has always been the one who was the least likely to run off and do something insubordinate; not only does she have experience at this, but the IOA probably feels that they can depend on her to represent Earth's interests, and, if necessary, do as she's told.

I suppose we'll see how tractable she is after a year of dealing with Hurricane John and Hurricane Rodney, however ... *g*

I love this season! I feel bad that some fans are having trouble dealing with it (and I might be singing a different tune if the characters who'd gotten axed had been members of the core team *snuggles team*) but I just love all the potential for new stories and new relationships on Atlantis. New planet, new (and slightly uneasy) friendships ... after things becoming so settled and comfortable over the last couple of seasons, I like having it all shaken up again!

We can be shallow together! ♥

Considering the history of SG-1, it's not exactly saying much that one of them was less likely than the others to run off on some harebrained, good-idea-at-the-time, unsanctioned quest, but - of course you're right! That's a really good point, right there. Not only did she survive ten years with SG-1, saving the world several times over in the process, but she was also the one who (almost?) always did what she was told to do, so - yeah, I can see how the IOA would feel comfortable picking her, even though they probably wouldn't do the same with any of the other SG-1 members...

Heh. I think the IOA are probably in for a surprise! As is Carter...I mean, obviously she has a lot of experience with people who aren't exactly your average military/scientist types, but... Yeah. John and Rodney and John and Rodney together... being the boss of them is going to be an Interesting Experience, of the sort that relates to the curse of "living in interesting times". *g*

Fourth season love! ♥ I'm right there with you - possibly because I spent on average one month with each of the previous seasons, and was not as used to the way things "should be", but also because I think all of these changes are really good for the show! I'm incredibly excited about everything they can do with the new constellations of relationships, and new planet, and new moons (five of them!), and - yes! Shaking things up is good, even if the change is also painful. It's art imitating life - getting stuck in a rut can take a lot of fun out of life, and while it's not easy to break out and leave comfortable friendships and such behind, it is part of what life is all about - it's what you need to keep developing! To be challenged and to learn and change... The same goes for all of Atlantis.

As long as they don't break the team apart, yes. And also - no hurting Zelenka! Hurting Zelenka is like kicking puppies! (So naturally, I worry about him... the writers can be so very evil!)

You squeed where I squeed! This was such a fun commentary to read.

My favorite Ronon part in this ep was the moment he left his friends to look for Sheppard's team - because all he heard were gunshots, and without a second thought he went running, even though they could have been perfectly okay. That was the moment, IMO, where he chose who his true team was, before he even knew his friends had betrayed him.

And TEAL'C! "Undomesticated equines". Oh, Teal'c. I think leaving him behind is like leaving behind your favorite, most comforting, teddy bear. I hope he gets more cameos (he does, right? Please tell me he does.)

My favorite Ronon part in this ep was the moment he left his friends to look for Sheppard's team - because all he heard were gunshots, and without a second thought he went running, even though they could have been perfectly okay. That was the moment, IMO, where he chose who his true team was, before he even knew his friends had betrayed him.

I so agree with you here, that was perfect and percetly said.

Oh yes, I loved that too -- Ronon running off to find his team, his REAL team! *g* Such a sweet moment, and so telling of the way he feels about him.

I also liked how this episode developed Ronon's protective streak -- we've seen it suggested before, that he seems to want to protect and look out for his friends, but this is the first time it's really been overtly addressed in canon.

Did you see how watery johns eyes looked at the end after Ronon had referred to him as his friend. He looked a little....well...upset. Oh John, he seemed to have changed and become a lot more vulnerable, willing to show his feelings this season!! I love it!!

I agree with you and I loved the episode! Everyone who has commented so far has such insightful and interesting points of view and I just can't think of anything that would compare, lol!

I think everyone has made some excellent points and I think this season is going to be good, it's finding it's groove so to speak. :)

court

I'm really loving this season so far! *crosses fingers for a season 5*

Oh me too! I really hope we find out soon and I really hope we get a season 5 :) *crosses fingers and toes*

Court

How the hell would the Wraith know that *McKay* was the one who altered the Asurans programming? And, on the same topic, if the Wraith knew Atlantis hadn't been destroyed, then why didn't they attack it before?

I'm thinking they got this intel from Ronon's friends. My assumption was that Tyre and co were sent out by the Wraith specifically to draw out Ronon/the Atlantis team. Tyre said they had heard rumours of the new race of humans living in the city of the Ancients and the runner who had joined them. My guess is that the Wraith had heard these rumours.. and they might think Atlantis is destroyed but they certainly know the race of humans who settled it are still about.

I felt like the Wraith had sent Tyre and co out to be loud and brash and draw attention, in the hopes of drawing in the Atlantis team and infiltrating them/finding out what they knew about the Asurans. And lucky for them, the team went and TOLD Tyre and co that Rodney was the one who'd altered the replicator base code. So they knew precisely who it was they wanted to capture.

P.S. I enjoyed this ep. I'd join in the discussion with my detailed thoughts on the ep etc but right now this head cold is rotting my brain and thinking hurts. :(

Ewww, I'm sorry to hear you're sick! I hope you feel better soon.

And that's something I hadn't even thought of -- that the Wraith were getting intel from the Satedans! That actually makes quite a bit of sense, since Ronon probably told them everything that was going on once the Atlantis secret was out of the bag.

Ah, that's a very plausible answer. Thank you!

the beat-down was awesome and the "Where are your friends/Right here" exchange was love.)

Yes, that was great, and I liked how they showed him torn between the two teams when they split in the Wraith lab, and then immediately running to their defense when he hears gunfire.

(And honestly, if it had to be just one of them, I loved that it was Teal'c, because ever since "Undending" I've been totally grooving on his friendship with her and even sort of vaguely shipping them a little bit, to the extent that I ever do anyhow.)

*grin* Me too. Not seriously, but yeah, it's kind of a cool idea. :)

The one thing that bugged me a little about the Carter introduction is that the military thing is never even mentioned, and I'd think that would be a really big deal -- because it was always a fairly big deal that Atlantis was a civilian expedition, not a military one, and having an active member of the U.S. military in charge, even if she's not officially acting in that capacity ... it is a big thing That it wasn't addressed here, even in so much as a throwaway line of dialogue, felt like an oversight.

In retrospect, I agree with this also. I didn't think of it when watching, but yeah, it should have been dealt with somehow. In spite of that, for all my worry, I think they've done a pretty good job of bringing Carter in so far. I still miss Elizabeth, but this hasn't been what I feared, and I'm glad for that.

However, they did bring up John's desire to rescue Elizabeth, and again, I just loved the way that scene was played -- you got the idea that he'd been holding back on a rescue mission because of his responsibility to Atlantis, but now that he was no longer in charge, he's jumping back into "no man left behind!" and oh, the look on his face when she told him no -- he is not happy, and I foresee many ... interesting discussions in their future.

I thought the exact same thing-that he was just holding things together until Sam got there, and now he wants to go look for her. He was really pouring on the charm there, and then his whole attitude changed when she told him no. I don't know if you read Joe Mallozzi's blog-tonight it was all about behind the scenes stuff for this ep, and he says there was a closing scene for Shep and Carter that got cut for time. I wonder what it was?

And more awwwwww! for the scene where they wake up in the Wraith cell, because was it just me, or did John squeeze Rodney's hand when he's waking up? I re-watched that scene, er, a few times, trying to catch that bit (the hands are mostly behind the cage bars, unfortunately) but that's sure what it looked like. If he didn't squeeze his hand, then he certainly had his fingers resting against Rodney's ...

That would be awesome-I'll have to rewatch that scene. What I noticed was it looked like Teyla was stroking John's gun holster(?) with her fingers....but as I said, need to rewatch the scene.

And more awwww! and also, squee! for more Teyla/Ronon friendship scenes. I loved that she accompanied him offworld to check out the rumors of more of his people. And her little smack-down in the gym to get him to open up and talk about what was bothering him ... HEEEEEEEE!

That was a great scene for both of them. :) Loved it that she kept smacking him until he talked. :) And I liked it that she talked about her struggle with leaving her people. Just a reminder that Teyla was a leader.

I liked how they showed him torn between the two teams when they split in the Wraith lab, and then immediately running to their defense when he hears gunfire.

Oh, that was wonderful! Yes, I loved that too. ^_^

I don't know if you read Joe Mallozzi's blog-tonight it was all about behind the scenes stuff for this ep, and he says there was a closing scene for Shep and Carter that got cut for time. I wonder what it was?

I've just been reading his behind-the-scenes and really enjoying it! So cool to get an idea of some of the things that they wanted to put in the episode, and the thought processes that went into setting it up the way that they did. Supposedly tomorrow he's going to give more details on the deleted scenes ... I'm looking forward to that.

Generally, though I'm sad to have lost Elizabeth, I've been happy with how they've done the transition and I'm looking forward to exploring the new, changed SGA universe in fic. I'd kind of run out of inspiration to write fic for it lately; I felt like I'd done everything I wanted to do, and anything else would just be repeating stories I'd already written. Now I'm having ideas again! It's wonderful!

Generally, though I'm sad to have lost Elizabeth, I've been happy with how they've done the transition and I'm looking forward to exploring the new, changed SGA universe in fic. I'd kind of run out of inspiration to write fic for it lately; I felt like I'd done everything I wanted to do, and anything else would just be repeating stories I'd already written. Now I'm having ideas again! It's wonderful!

Always YAY for more Friendshipper fic! :) You and Tipper will always be at the very top of my fic list I believe. :)

I have to admit I was quite upset about them bringing Carter over, since I'd been so unhappy with her character for the last few seasons on SG-1. But I've been surprisingly OK with how they've handled it so far. And I'm finding that I might actually start to like her character again, if they keep writing her like they did for this episode. Losing Elizabeth...that's been harder, since I think I actually went through this whole process the exact opposite of most Weir fans. It took me months (yes, I know *hides face*) to deal with the idea of Carter coming over, and it wasn't until after that it started hitting me that wow, Elizabeth is leaving, and WOW, I'm really going to miss her. It was probably also prompted by the speedmarathon of S1-3 I did before started S4. Anyway...yeah, Carter's working out better than I expected. And I'm still missing Elizabeth. :D A lot of words to say just that. :)

You and Tipper will always be at the very top of my fic list I believe.

Why thank you! *blush*

It actually surprised me how much I missed Elizabeth. I don't think I really appreciated her until I knew she was leaving, and only THEN did I see how much she brought to the team dynamic. Nice one there,

friendshipper. *snort* But ... I dunno ... I think I had time over the hiatus to get used to the idea of having new cast members and a slightly different dynamic. And so far, I really like how they've been handling it; I think the writers are well aware of how strong viewer objections to the changes were, and they're trying to ease Carter into the show as seamlessly as possible. I've been generally happy with it, anyhow.

I'm really trying to get into the rhythm of this new season but am still finding it difficult with all the upheavals and cast changes. But, I'm still trying.

All the team stuff was great, and Shep getting stunned a 2nd time after barely coming out of the 1st one was wonderful whumpage of our dear Shep.

Ronon and Teyla spending so much time together was fantastic. I loved their bonding as I ship them a little in my heart. And WOW.. Rachel is SHOWING!

I'm still not jazzed over Carter. Not. At. All. Glad that Weir was mentioned and when Carter said, "I'm not Dr. Weir." to Ronon, I could only think, "DAMN STRAIGHT! And GET OFF HER BALCONY!"

Sorry.. that's my hiccup in the 'trying' department.

There is really a very different tone to what we're seeing this season. Maybe after about the 6th or 8th episode I'll be more in tune with what's going on, but I was only a fan of SG1 for about 3 seasons and Carter was my main reason for bugging out. SGA was so very different and I just loved the flawedness (LOL.. made that one up myself) of the characters that I just hugged then instantly to my heart.

Oh, and WHY did Carter have to be the one to go off-world to the Wraith lab? That spot should've gone to our lovely Lorne! Yet another person Carter will upstage this season.

Sorry.. another hiccup.

In all, I liked this ep... not loved, but liked. Again, maybe it's just my queazieness at getting used to all the new dynamics of things this season and still trying to figure out if this is still my show.

The team-ness. I'll just try to focus on that and the Shep Whump, naturally. And the John and Rodney snark-fest too! But I'll so miss the Carson and Weir aspect as in my heart, they were part of the team too. And that aspect of it is gone. Forever.

Well ... just speaking for myself, I'm really loving this season, and I think part of it is because I don't want the shows that I watch to stay the same. I like to see them change and evolve. I'd be terribly sad if they took off John or Rodney, but I think I'd still watch the show, particularly if they did a good job with the changeover (and I do think they've done a good job here).

Another thing, like I was saying in one of the above comments, is that my desire to write fic for the show was starting to flag, because I felt like, as a writer, I'd done everything I wanted to do; anything new that I wrote would just be repeating something I'd already written. With new characters in the mix, I have a ton of new ideas that I want to explore, and it's really got me excited.

But I certainly agree with you on loving the characters' imperfections -- I love their "ragtag bunch of misfits" vibe (which is kind of funny since most of them are savants in one way or another!). And I was glad to see Carter get to go offworld; it's one of the advantages to having a leader who's got combat experience, which they couldn't do with Elizabeth.

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<The one thing that bugged me a little about the Carter introduction is that the military thing is never even mentioned, and I'd think that would be a really big deal -- because it was always a fairly big deal that Atlantis was a civilian expedition, not a military one, and having an active member of the U.S. military in charge, even if she's not officially acting in that capacity ... it is a big thing That it wasn't addressed here, even in so much as a throwaway line of dialogue, felt like an oversight.>

I thought that the way they introduced her to Atlantis was telling in that regard. Yes, she was in uniform but there was no saluting and no formation of military when she arrived. Did you notice that the vast majority of those in the gateroom seemed to be science staff? Even Sheppard was dealing with her as he would have Elizabeth, it wasn't her greater rank that had him saying "fair enough" on the balcony. I really liked that scene, although it hearkened back to the scene between Sheppard and Weir, there were noticeable differences in the way the two women handled him as well as what I saw as differences in their motivations. Some continuity but also clear distinctions. It also let me believe that my initial hope that things would pretty much be run as under Elizabeth with John as the military commander of the active military force and Carter as 'base commander' might be the way the writers will play this. So, I thought that the writers telegraphed that there wouldn't be much of a change in the feel of Atlantis even though a uniformed military was sitting in the mission commander's chair.

Oh, good points, all very good points. I hadn't thought about the fact that they don't relate to her in a military chain-of-command kind of way -- and haven't presented her as being John's CO (except in the sense that Elizabeth was). It would be interesting to see what would happen if they ran into a situation where she had to really press her authority over John -- if she'd play the military card or not. (And, John being John, I wouldn't be surprised if it did come up sometime this season!)

That may have been a deliberate attempt to circumvent opposition from the scientists on Atlantis to what might otherwise look like a takeover. The thing is that sending Carter, and avoiding formal ceremony for the moment, helps to disarm any immediate opposition to the transfer in command. Weir, McKay, Zalenka, and to a lesser extent Beckett were the major people with enough seniority and influence to really make trouble, and with Elizabeth and Carson out of the picture Carter's presence overwhelmed Rodney and Radek. Rodney has got his own dynamic with Carter to sort out, and Radek was just relieved that Rodney didn't get the job. I that they wil realize that they've been conquered without a fight, but probably not for several weeks at least.

But I can just imagine what could have happened if the new commander had been some random officer who tried to have all the ceremony and impose military discipline on the city. My estimate would be about 3 weeks before the poor bastard got sent home in a straightjacket murmuring to himself about lemons. Attempts to threaten Ronon, less subtly done than Carter's attempts, could have other extremely serious health-related repercussions: See exhibit A, Kell, on the subject of Satedan relationships to authority figures.

Oh my, that is a very interesting idea! (Murmuring to himself about lemons. Hee!) I hadn't really thought about the IOA deliberately considering the civilian reaction to a perceived military takeover, but it really does make for some interesting ficcing ideas, doesn't it?

In writer Joe Mallozzi's blog he says that Radek is holding some sort of energy reader thing, not a life signs detector.

Yeah, I read that. But it looks like an LSD, so going off canon, there is no way to know.

I pretty much squeed over everything you did!! But you didn't mention that other 'aww' moment when the Wraith pull Rodney away and Teyla tells him to be strong and he says he'll try... such a nice moment between them!

I'm writing a tag for this story already (!) with Sam and John and hopefully a bit of Rodney as well, discussing the fact that McKay is now wanted by the Wraith personally... I hope future episode(s) will address the whole Wraith after McKay thing too, but who knows?!

Of course my favourite line was cut (yep, been reading Joe's blog again!). The replicator was originally going to talk to McKay, but they cut it as it made the replicator less scary. Basically it tells McKay to let it go, he's like no way, it's like you don't have to be afraid of me and McKay replies:

“Still, I'm one of those equal opportunity fearers.”

LOL! Pity they had to lose that, but I agree it would have made the replicator less scary in the later scene when it does get free... oh well!

And personally, I love the Sam and Rodney scene in her quarters too and am suprised people have a problem with it - it's just so *them* (McKay especially!).

Gonna have to go watch it again soon - I don't think I'll pick up on the hand holding/touching bit in the cell scene as I'm on youtube until it airs in the UK (therefore small screen) and my friend sends me a copy to watch (cos I don't have Sky One anymore due to them bullying the cable channel... looong boring story...)

Ooh, looking forward to the tag! :)

I actually missed that line (I wasn't that interested in the Replicator scene, so I skimmed over it) so thanks for mentioning it -- that's SUCH a Rodney comment! *g*

And, yeah, I'm not really sure why people are bothered by the Sam/Rodney scene, personally.

Just to let you know, the tag is now up on my site (and will be up on ff.net later):

Balcony Scene

Not as good as some that I've read, but hopefully acceptable!

Well said. I pretty much agree with most of the points you made here.

I also had some problems with the idea of the military taking a more active role in the day to day running of Atlantis. Like I said, I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It has nothing to do with the choice being Sam Carter - I would have the same concerns no matter who it was they chose, it is more about it being a military officer.

That said, I think they did a good job of bringing Carter on the show. I like that there was a bit of tension between her and pretty much everyone. Things should be a bit tense at least for a episode or so. Change is never easy.

I am not sure if I agree with you as to why Rodney didn't take the painting back. He didn't want to get beat-up. After all, he stole the painting from Ronon's quarters before Ronon even really left. That was really tacky in my view and Ronon would have been perfectly justified in at least scaring the crap out of Rodney for doing that.

But I have to wonder about that - when did Rodney break in to Ronon's quarters to take it?

I am not sure if I agree with you as to why Rodney didn't take the painting back. He didn't want to get beat-up. After all, he stole the painting from Ronon's quarters before Ronon even really left. That was really tacky in my view and Ronon would have been perfectly justified in at least scaring the crap out of Rodney for doing that.

Heee! I never even thought of that ... but it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Silly Rodney. I still think it was a sweet gesture that he wanted the painting to remember him by (and such a typically socially-inept way to express that ... by stealing your friends' stuff) but yeah, not wanting to get beat up probably has a lot to do with it.

when did Rodney break in to Ronon's quarters to take it?

Hadn't thought about that either! You've got a point. He'd basically have had to sneak into Ronon's quarters before Ronon left, wouldn't he...

Hmm, interesting point - but my take on it is that Ronon's quarters have been packed away by then. In the scene with Sam he is packing up, and I get the impression that as soon as the mission is over he is leaving and not returning to Atlantis first and therefore everything will have been at least packed by then if not actually out into storage.

Of course, either way, Rodney's still...erm...taken it without permission...!!

And there is something endearing about the idea of him sneaking into Ronon's quarters...!

BTW, my tag is finished bar the beta-ing (and that will have to wait until next week as my beta hasn't seen Reunion yet - she's waiting for Sky One to show it on Tuesday...)

Now, I can go read everyone else's tags that I've seen scattered about... And what's the betting some of them follow my own ideas... Ah well!! Great (and not-so-great, in my case) minds sometimes think alike!

Oh, and meant to add:

Rodney has a history of pinching things - well, sort of - I mean, he did in McKay and Mrs Miller, didn't he? And from Elizabeth's desk that time too...!!!

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SGA 4x03: Reunion

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