sholio | Gen ficathon

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Gen ficathon - Discuss!

The response to the gen ficathon poll was fantastic -- it looks like there is *definitely* interest in having such a thing.

The big, multi-part question now is how to set it up.

I'm quite happy to run it; I don't foresee the logistics or the amount of work being too difficult, although I might want to bring in another moderator or two just to make it look less like I'm trying to make it all about me, which is not the intent.

As far as timing goes, January or February seems like it would work beautifully; the crush of holiday-season ficathons would be over, the new season would be well underway, and midwinter tends to be a not-so-busy time in a lot of people's lives. The stories could be due by April or May, perhaps to coincide with the season finale (whenever it is).

I really like the idea of posting the stories anonymously and then revealing the authors at the end, and from the poll results, it seems like a lot of other people do too. Anonymous posting puts new writers on the same footing as established ones; it lets the stories stand on their own merits rather than relying on the author's own reputation in the fandom. (As the person who would probably be posting them, I suppose I'm going to need to work out some details, though.) If anybody thinks this is a terrible idea, though, or if you've had bad experiences with this sort of thing in the past, please say something!

We should probably have some kind of prompts or themes, rather than just being a fic free-for-all. The tricky thing here is to ensure that everyone gets something they can work with. I've seen several recent ficathons that have people suggest a list of prompts, from which writers can then pick the prompt they want to write. Another possibility (which I'm totally stealing from

mcshep_match, a recent slash ficathon) is to use genres ... in that one, they had only two ("romance" and "angst") but for a gen ficathon, there could be several -- some people would be writing humor, others would get action, some people would get friendship or angst or team, etc.

And then there's the question of how long the stories ought to be. Personally, I love the idea of setting a fairly high minimum word count (4000 words or so) to get good, solid, meaty stories, but I don't want to scare off half the participants by making it unreasonably difficult. I do want to set *some* kind of bar for length, though. 1000 words? 2000? Thoughts?

And then there's the tricky question of how to define "gen". Based on the poll results, I'm leaning towards a fairly narrow definition, either "no pairings" or "canon pairings allowed, but only if not the focus of the story". Obviously, this is not to slam anybody's preferences, but since it's meant to be a gen ficathon, I'd like to stick as close as possible to the closest thing there is to a widely understood definition of "gen" in the fandom.

Thoughts? Opinions? Snark? I'm totally open to all input -- mainly, I want this to be *fun*, and as inclusive as possible to the diverse body of gen fic writers (and for that matter, I'd *love* to get some slash/het writers who would like to try their hand at writing gen, too). The absolute last thing I want is for this ficathon to be seen as a slam against the pairing-based ficathons, or to write the rules so narrowly that a lot of fans feel excluded.

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Oh, that's great! *bounces*

I totally love the idea of posting the stories anonymously. In the McShep match I read everything and I could tell within the first paragraph or two if I was going to like the story but it was based on the story's merits and not because of who wrote it. (Although with McShep I've rarely met an author I didn't like - gen or slash)

I do like the idea of writing in genres. Didn't the writers sign up for teams in McShep? Maybe we could sign up for genres in advance and that way you wouldn't have 1 or 2 people writing humor and 25 writing angst. As for prompts, my muse works best when it's just a general idea. Where there's room for creativity. When we get to specifics - must be set in Atlantis and there has to be tooth paste and peanuts mentioned. You know things like that, my muse begins to feel hemmed in. But I'm flexible, I'll deal with whatever works best for everyone.

I totally agree that gen should be no pairings. We can get pairings in ship or slash if that's what you're looking for. But, again, I'll go with whatever everyone agrees on.

I just want to see a lot of new fic ;-)

I just want to see a lot of new fic ;-)

Which would be my ulterior motive, really. *grin*

mcshep_match is my current model for a ficathon I'd like to emulate, or at least cherry-pick for good ideas, because every single story (at least the ones I've read) were long and enjoyable and very well-written, and the ficathon overall seemed to be run well and a good experience for everyone. They did it competitively, though, and I don't think I want to do that, even though in that case it seemed to go very smoothly with no hard feelings between winners and losers. But I still would rather keep the competitive element out of it. Beyond that, though, I really *like* the idea of having groups of writers doing angst and teamfic and action and so forth.

Yes, I thought the mcshep match was very well done. I loved all the stories and the way the whole thing went together seemed to work well. I agree that we probably don't want the competitive elements though. I thought they handled it really well, but it adds a whole level of stress for both the person running it (namely you) and the writers.

As far as prompts, I like the idea of a list of prompts and picking which ones to use..this way its more narrow than just 'angst', but leaves wiggle room to do what you want with it.

On regards to word count, if there is a month to six week's worth of notice, I think 4000 words is a reasonable min limit. If you think thats too long, than at least 3,000 words, heck that's the min I think a single chapter should be for any fic, but than that's just me.

I guess a narrow definition of gen as in "No pairings" with the allowance of canon ones if its not the focus, because honestly what true relationship exists in SGA except John and the city..I mean...yeah ignore that last part

:-D.

I like this idea.

4000 words seems quite doable to *me*, but I tend to write long! (Even my flashfic stories are long...) As much as I would like to have a bunch of long stories to read, I don't want to scare people off.

I'm leaning right now towards genres plus a rather vague prompt.

I like the idea of keeping it anonymous, and of having a list of prompts for people to claim. Or maybe - and this would take a little more organizing but might help mix things up - have prompts assigned. With the possibility of getting another prompt if a writer's completely stumped.

About the length - as a reader, I want longer, meatier stories. But as a writer, I know I'm going to be working on a very hefty and important essay during that period, so I don't know if I'll be able to pull together more than 1,000 or so words at the time. 1,000 should be the absolute minimum, though. Anything shorter and it's hard to have it be an actual story as opposed to a mere vignette.

As for the question of romance and defining 'gen', I'm inclined to follow the show's lead. So some flirting, some banter, a lunch for two - but only incidental to the main plot. Enough to flesh out the characters, perhaps, but no more.

and (I forgot to add) strictly limited to what we see on the show. So, pretty much just Rodney and Katie Brown. Or Cadman and Carson, I suppose.

As for the question of romance and defining 'gen', I'm inclined to follow the show's lead. So some flirting, some banter, a lunch for two - but only incidental to the main plot. Enough to flesh out the characters, perhaps, but no more.

Yeah, that's my definition of gen, as well -- the level of romance, and the romantic relationships, seen in the show. So, Rodney getting interrupted in the middle of lunch with Katie to go save the city, or Elizabeth reflecting on Simon while being held hostage by Genii, is perfectly gen in my head. Rodney spending all his waking hours obsessing on Katie, or Sheppard kissing Elizabeth (while not possessed, that is, *g*), or a story that's *entirely* about Rodney and Katie's date is not gen.

Squee! I have no idea if I'll be able to play, but this should be fun. Might I recommend, if you do January, to wait for mid-January so people can get off the high/fear from Yuletide and such?

I've seen a lot of ficathons recently with a list of prompts (submitted at large) that people can choose from. This is good in some ways - particularly in that it helps prevent people from getting stuck with stuff they can't write. But it might make anonymity harder (I suppose you could screen the post where they adopt prompts).

If you do an exchange, I highly recommend having people make 3-4 requests so writers have some choices to work with. I've recently done ficathons with only one or two requests and it really feels like your hands are tied. (also, specify carefully what you want in the requests - if you have a spot for things you don't want, do you mean themes or characters? And...how are you defining team on SGA (since I feel like that is slightly less obvious than SG-1 oh, wait, this is gen, not team, nevermind).

2000 words maybe? I've read some wonderful stuff that felt really meaty but was that short. I worry that if you require at least 4000 words you'll scare some peopl eoff...

As for what "gen" is...that's a discussion I'm scared of :) Personally, I feel if a (canon - or, if it's future!fic, not necessarily canon) relationship is mentioned as existing but not anywhere near the point in the story, I'm okay thinking of something as gen. Other people disagree with me.

And I meant to post the below comment as a 'reply', not a separate comment. >_

Ha ... the infamous gen debate! I think you can get away with being a lot more restrictive, though, if it's evident that the definition is meant only to apply to this specific comm, rather than being a Grand Unified Theory of Gen. *g*

I was thinking of having a prompt list and letting people choose in screened comments. And keeping the prompts vague -- more along the style of the sga-flashfic prompts rather than "The team gets trapped in a cave-in". And I still want to combine that with the genres, too!

Maybe have a round of prompt-suggesting in January, then claim prompts in Feb. and let everyone have 'til April to finish their stories.

Yes, yes and yes. All sounds good!

I'm hoping I'll be a place fic-wise and time-wise that I can play! If not I promise to pimp, cheer from the sidelines and read.

I like the idea of combining prompts with genres -- it allows for more options, as well, since a prompt taken for an angst-fest will turn out completely different than the same prompt used in an adventure story.

Oh yes, absolutely! Actually that's one of the things I love about challenges, seeing how people can take the exact same idea and do something completely different with it.

I've seen a lot of ficathons recently with a list of prompts (submitted at large) that people can choose from. This is good in some ways - particularly in that it helps prevent people from getting stuck with stuff they can't write. But it might make anonymity harder

People could adopt prompts anonymously.

I feel if a (canon - or, if it's future!fic, not necessarily canon) relationship is mentioned as existing but not anywhere near the point in the story, I'm okay thinking of something as gen.

Ditto. ^_^

Yeah, I think I would probably have all the prompt-claiming be anonymous (screened comments, or assigned by yours truly). The mystery element really adds a lot to a ficathon or fic exchange, IMHO.

I find that I often do better with assigned prompts than with ones I pick out for myself. (Of course, if you do the assigning, this would give you the chance to give writers prompts just to see what they come up with.)

Yes, but it would also give writers the chance to blame me for their terrible prompts. *g*

True, true.

*sighs*

It would've been fun to see what you came up with, though.

Yay! I am loving the idea of a gen-only ficathon. As for a definition of gen, I'm going to be uncharacteristically conservative and say that I, too, believe that gen means canon romantic relationships only, and not the focus of the story. I will further propose that by canon romantic relationships, I mean relationships that are or have clearly and definitively happened in the show. So even if you are convinced that John and Rodney, or Elizabeth and Ronon, or Rodney and Carson, etc. etc. etc., are totally doing it, that's not eligible for the "canon relationship" label. (Unless any of these relationships comes to pass in season four. ;) )

In terms of prompts and so forth, I do like the idea of using genres, and yet I know that some people find it easier if they have more specific prompts. But something that I've always found uncomfortable is having to claim a prompt or losing out on a prompt that really inspired because I didn't claim it before someone else. Couldn't we just have a list of prompts and let people choose whatever one spoke to them, without the claiming? Of course, I suppose the risk there is possibly getting too many in one genre or using the same prompt.

Also, 2000 words seems like a decent minimum length without being too intimidating. And your January beginning time seems good to me. :)

Maybe I could declare a prompt unavailable if it had 2 or 3 people claim it? I'd like to see a diverse range of prompts being used, to get a wide variety of stories, but I agree that it can feel very tense to have to get your pick in early or lose out on a good prompt.

I totally agree with your definition of "gen" for purposes of this ficathon ... and with the addendum too. :)

I think it would be a great challenge for non-gen writers to see what they come up with. The anonymity would take away the predisposed ideas we have about certain writers as well. *ie, so and so only writes slash*

Oh, I hadn't thought of that, about the anonymity. Good point! I would really love to get more of the slash writers whose work I admire to participate; this might help! :)

*claps* This looks like fun.

2000-4000 words sounds good as well as the anonymous author postings.

Gen for me is a fic with pairings mentioned in support but not the focus of the story.

Jan/Feb deadline is fine by me.

Are you going to need any help with this?

Are you going to need any help with this?/i>

I don't know yet! I'd like to snare a couple volunteers as co-mods, but I haven't really got any idea of what it'll entail, so I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it all myself or if I'll have to rely on other people for some of it. But thanks for the offer; I just may take you up on that! (That *was* an offer, right? *g*)

I'll probably set a minimum word count of somewhere around 2000 or 3000 words and let people go as long as they want -- I don't want to set it *too* high, but I also would like to encourage longer stories.

Yes....that was an offer :)

bratfarrar, I tend to do better when I know there's someone writing specifically for me and I'm writing for them.

The other thing is that with a "pick your own prompt" option, I'd end up signing up to write something and then discover that no-one's written anything that I'd really like to read.

The "pick your own prompt" skews the results in favour of what's popular and provides disincentive for people like me - who have little to no interest in the "popular" genfic (ie. John and Rodney BFF) - to participate.

I don't know that there's a solution to this problem, but it's something to consider. I get involved in ficathons because very few people write the stories I'd like to read unless I specifically request it. (And even then, they usually skip out of writing it.)

(And even then, they usually skip out of writing it.)

If people not finishing their prompts is a common problem in story exchanges, then it seems like it would be best to avoid that and let people choose their prompts instead. (I've never organized such a thing, and have only ever participated in a story exchange once. Although I did enjoy it, it seems like the possibility for frustration and unhappiness is very high.)

I'm thinking of doing very vague prompts anyway, giving the maximum possible leeway for people to write what they want -- kind of like sga-flashfic does. Flashfic seems to get a nice variety of stories, balanced between gen and slash, featuring a variety of characters; I hope for something like that here ... only, you know, minus the slash. *g*

If you know some other writers who have writing tastes outside the fannish mainstream, maybe you could encourage them to sign up? I would love to see a variety of stories represented. Any large collection of fanfic is *always* going to skew towards the popular types of stories unless the rules are restrictive enough to force people not to write about certain things. I don't wish to do that. However, "John and Rodney BFF" stories are far from the only sort of genfic that's available in SGA, and since there are plenty of writers writing other stuff *already*, I don't see why a gen ficathon wouldn't end up fairly diverse, unless only a few people sign up.

I think a gen ficathon would be awesome. I'm excited and it isn't even winter yet. Holding it after Christmas would be perfect, because not only is the crunch of the fall semester done for us college students, but the holiday rush is over and we've got that lull before the second half of season 4 starts. A perfect time to hold a ficathon, when people are excited for the second half of season 4.

We should probably have some kind of prompts or themes, rather than just being a fic free-for-all.

I love this idea. I loved it when mcshep_match did it, and a gen version would be so much fun! The stories standing on their own is what made them so good -- equality in anonymity, as it were. I discovered authors I'd never read before.

1000 words? 2000? Thoughts?

A minimum of about 1000 I'd say. Are you thinking about setting a limit?

(and for that matter, I'd *love* to get some slash/het writers who would like to try their hand at writing gen, too).

::RAISES HAND:: I'll take off the McShep goggles and give it a go.

Whee! I'm excited too! Come on it, the water's fine! *g*

I wasn't planning to set an upper word limit, but I'd like some kind of minimum. I don't know if 2000 or 3000 words might be too high?

I really want to do something vaguely similar to mcshep_match -- I love the idea of having "genres" like that one did, and then letting people choose (or assigning them) prompts to work within the genres they've picked out. And, yes, the anonymity was wonderful --like you, I discovered some new authors I hadn't read before, and I loved not starting out a story by pre-judging it based on who wrote it. I'd never realized how much a person tends to do that.

There was the ficathon (maybe it was one you mentioned?) where authors were anonymous and readers got to guess, from a roster of four or five names, who wrote what. I liked that because it put the competiton onto the readers; and also might have encouraged readers to go check out the other work of the participants to get a feel for style.

As for prompts - I've had very specific prompts work really well for me (needs an aardvark, the color purple, a cake, and (minor character X)). OTOH, this is really hit-or-miss.

Pretty much, I guess, I get a story written when a prompt matches something I've been musing about in general matches some end-of-story point or punchline; and I never really know how or when that's going to happen. But I've also found that having a theme or prompt bounce around in my head for a bit will often guide my general state-of-the-universe musings.

So - no real useful input there, sorry!

As for the Gen/not-Gen line - I can ferociously defend five different definitions all in the space of 20 minutes; so whatever you decide is fine. My only request is that there be no thought-police aspect to this - what I mean by this is that, if one *sees* a relationship in canon one does not have to totally blank this from their minds, just be sure that what is in the story is of the level that is shown on-screen. (And, yeah, this might take some wrangling wrt POV; but that's life!)

As for length - 2,000 words is very short, I think. I think 4000 would be a good minimum; but 10,000 might really produce some gems.

You might also require the use of betas. I don't tend to have things pre-read, but I've seen ficathons do this, and since the average quality of fics in them is high I think there's a correlation.

- Helen

Yeah, I really like the anonymous idea, even though it will entail a little extra work for me. *g*

Personally, I work better with vague prompts, but since different people are different that way, perhaps it would be better to have a variety available ...

I definitely want a minimum word count, but I'm afraid of setting it too high for fear of scaring people off or having them drop out if they can't make it. I agree that 2000's short, but hopefully if the bar was set that low, people would end up aiming higher...

And that's a good suggestion about betas! *makes note*

I'm already looking forward to this. I would love to do a fic exchange, but prompts leave it open for a little more creativity, while fic-exchanges narrow it down more.

So I'm good for either one.

I love the anonymous writer thing. Although there is safety in sticking with a known writer it also means missing out on possibly awesome fic, especially if there's a new writer in town. The gen ficathon would be a kind of safe haven for reading works by authors we've never read before.

I would say to go very broad with the word count, like 500-4000 words (for example, could be more or less) as well as say it's okay to go a little over or under (myeb by one hundred words but no more than that). Again, example.

As for the definition of gen, I would say no pairings unless they're canon pairings and not center-stage in the story.

I wasn't going to have an upper word limit at all, just a minimum -- I don't want to limit people on how far they can go with their stories. The more flashfic-type stories would be cut out by having a minimum of a couple thousand words, but there's always flashfic for that...

Having the writers be anonymous sounds great to me. It creates a nice level playing field for established writers and unknowns.

And yes, I think the definition of gen that you've given above is essentially the one I'm going to go with.

Yeah, this sounds great. I like your definition of gen, and the word limit/minimum is a good number. I think you need about 4000 words to tell a well rounded story.

As for prompts, I don't know. Maybe something a bit more than must 'angst' or 'team' -- maybe a setting and/or a prop? Well, whatever. I'm game

Your icon! *dies*

Here's one possible way we could do it (http://friendshipper.livejournal.com/84751.html).

Hmm, I've found this to be interesting. However, having never been involved in a ficathon before, I'm not certain whether I'll be able to deliver as it depends on my free time and prompts received. Don't think I can add any value to this except maybe suggest having a rather broad minimum word count of 1000 or more? I think sometimes you can have some very entertaining humor pics with a small word count, but you might need larger word counts for other genres...

Previously, I didn't understand how posting anonymously worked so didn't answer that question in the poll. But now that I understand it a little better, I must say that I like the idea very much. :)

Thank you! I like the idea of anonymous posting, too -- it just seems like it'd be a good way to give every writer a fair shot at the same audience.

Right now I'm leaning towards sort of a compromise word count of 2000 ... short enough that most people should be able to make it, but long enough that the stories will have a bit of plot to them.

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Gen ficathon - Discuss!

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cool

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