sholio: Peter from White Collar smiling (WhiteCollar-Peter)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2011-08-02 10:28 pm
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White Collar 3x09

Mmmmm .... hmmmm. I think my reaction to this episode may have had something to do with having high hopes for a Keller episode, and then ... I felt like they squandered a lot of potential, really. So I'm not sure if the episode really wasn't very good, or if I was just disappointed in this one because of artificially high expectations. I wanted them to do more with Keller, but in the end, his role in this episode could have been that of any small-time crook who found out about the treasure. Neither his trademark mind games nor his hatred of, and desire for revenge on, Neal and Peter really played much of a role in the plot, and it should have. The whole episode felt like it was building up to something really explosive happening -- everything going horribly wrong at the end -- and then it ... didn't, really. It just sort of limped to a conclusion.

At least they didn't go ahead and kill off Keller, which I thought for a moment was what had happened. I really like him as an antagonist, and I would've hated to lose him in such an anticlimactic way.

And something I'm really struggling with right now is that normally, even when the plots of this show are a bit ... limp, you can usually count on the characters to be smart and competent regardless. This episode -- not so much, really. Neal and Mozzie -- neither of them are bringing their "A" game right now. Granted, both of them were working with only half the information they needed (Neal was lying to Mozzie about the manifest; Mozzie was concealing from Neal that he'd taken out a hit on Keller) but the end result was a lot of flailing at cross purposes that didn't really do either character any favors.

... actually, I think I just figured out one reason why I was less than enthralled with this episode. I love watching smart, twisty-brained characters match wits and cleverly figure out each other's secrets. That's one of the big draws of the show for me. But having the plots hinge upon the characters blundering around because they don't have all the information, and repeatedly getting close and then not telling each other things, is just frustrating. This show has rarely tipped over that line, but this episode, I feel, went too far in that direction for my tastes.

I know that a lot of people on my flist have been bothered by the show's darker direction with Neal and Mozzie this season, but this is the first episode where it's genuinely bothered me -- Mozzie taking out a hit on Keller, when it has a very real possibility of blowing back onto his friends; Neal not only directly lying to Peter's face about not having the treasure (I think this is the first time that there's really no way to explain it away as misdirection or half-truths), but also risking Peter's life by withholding critical pieces of information. And Peter, for that matter, moving so slowly on the pieces of information that he does have about the treasure that he's really just spinning his wheels -- okay, I get that he's dragging his feet because he cares about Neal, he knows Neal's guilty and he's still trying to give Neal opportunities to come clean (I think that's pretty obvious at this point), just as Neal's dragging his feet about leaving New York for similar reasons. But the end result is the characters not really doing much of anything, just keeping secrets from each other and staying in more or less the same place.

There were some things I liked! There was some fun bantery bits, and I really loved Peter's sympathy for Mozzie when his friend was killed (and listening to him immediately, when the other FBI agents didn't). It was nice to see Mozzie being protective of Neal, even if his plan was MADE OF SUCK, and it was also nice to see Sara again and get some closure on her storyline with Neal. (Though it bugs me that she's perjuring herself to the FBI for him -- Sara deciding to keep quiet on Neal's behalf makes sense to me; Sara committing a felony for Neal makes a great deal less sense. I was on board with Sara's protectiveness of Neal right up until the perjury thing.)

All in all, for the episode right before the mid-season finale, it didn't leave me going "Squee! More!" so much as "... I really hope the next episode is better than this one."

I didn't watch the preview for next week and am trying to remain completely unspoiled, so please do not spoil me in comments. Unfounded speculation is welcome, though! :D

This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/364072.html with comments.

[identity profile] altyronsmaker.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 07:18 am (UTC)(link)
I dislike Keller intensely. For me, there's absolutely nothing likable about him. He's cold, he's mean, he's smug. And he doesn't have any of the opposite attribute to make him less....arch.

I want my bad guys to be BAD GUYS, but with a likabilty factor. Angelus was funny and droll. Spike had a deep capacity to love and was very protective of Drusilla. Azazel in SPN was gleeful and humorous. ET AL.

Keller is just...well...an asshole. That doesn't appeal to me.

Also, Eliza Dushku was SO UNDERUTILIZED in this ep. She's freakin' fabulous, and they have her what? Muggin' in that silly ass hat, and frontin' with a gun and going all secret assassin on Keller? then the kiss? Oh yeah, she got the scarab out of Neal's pocket with that, but really? THAT's what you pull in Eliza freakin' Dushku for? *sigh*

I was surprised that Mozzie took out the hit on Keller. Thrown for a loop, even, because Mozzie's not that dark a character. Sure he's fringe, and he's sidestepped some pretty shady dealings in his tenure as fringe operator, but he's not a cold blooded guy. And that he'd take the Degas, despite Neal's insistence that he not? Well, at the moment, I thought OUCH! But now I see it as the plot device to make Neal confess to lying about Peter having the list.

I'm also upset that Neal has the list now. Like, the original list from Peter's safe. When Peter goes to look for it, and doesn't find it, he's going to know it's Neal. The only people who know about the list at all are Peter, Diana, Neal, and Mozzie. IIRC

I did like the closure with Sarah. I keep wanting Neal to give up the life on the lam dream, and Sarah, to me, would be a perfect partner for him - better than Kate ever could be, or Alex for that matter.

I also liked the last scene b/t Peter and Elizabeth. I love Peter & Neal, but Peter/El just makes my heart melt. Ilove that when he tells her who he was after, she's up and awake immediately, concern obvious.

Anyway, another White Collar rant in the comments of your journal. *bows out* My bad!

[identity profile] aqwt101.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 03:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I would've thought that they couldn't get the actress who plays Alex and had to fill in with someone else at the last minute!

Actually, you're quite right. White Collar and Gloria Votsis (aka Alex) had different schedules, they couldn't get her, so they rewrote episode for Dushku... (As well as with June's granddaughter from 3x01. In first draft it was Alex who helped Neal & Mozzie with their con, not Cindy.) And Jeff Eastin mentioned lots of times he wanted Neal/Sara/Alex love triangle in season 3. Since they couldn't have Alex, apparently he created Rachel as another possible love interest. *sigh*.

they have the characters doing things that are dumb or counterproductive or slightly OOC just to push the plot along.

I'm with you. I can pretty much live with plotholes of any kind as long as characters and their interactions remain true to themselves. White Collar was very good at that in season 1 and 2. But this season I have the thought "uh... did he/she really just did that? It's so wrong!" more often than I'd like. I want to love the show, damn it! *g* Hope next episode will resolve some of my issues…

And after all the lies and deceptions in this episode, their fundamental honesty and trust in each other was a very nice counterpoint to the rest of it.
Can't agree more. I realized how much I missed teamwork and genuinely camaraderie between Neal&Peter, Neal&Moz, even Moz&Peter…

[identity profile] swanpride.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, that explains why I was thinking the whole time "I wish Alex was here".

Although, I think it was Keller's best appearance so far. Just looking how elaborate his trap was: He set up Neal for an undercover operation so that he could approach him without anklet (and that before he even knew about the treasure cam! That's planning in advance), he nearly found the treasure, and the scenes with him were all great. Not over the top, but dangerous and suspenseful.

I had again some Sara issues (nothing new there), and I think I would have enjoyed the Raquel character more without the sexy poses - something more genuine would have been nice but otherwise, I loved it. To me, the best ep in this season so far.

[identity profile] swanpride.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 08:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Keller always tended to work alone with the occasional henchman, but since he has a booty on his head (one million from the russians...and now Mozzies 6 million on top of it), he certainly is forced to be very careful who he pairs up with. And he was very ready to kill Neal when he realized that his ruse didn't work.

I think we will the the repercussions next episode.

Well, it's my turn to be happy, after I was so unhappy about all those Sara-Eps.
aelfgyfu_mead: Aelfgyfu as a South Park-style cartoon (El & Peter)

[personal profile] aelfgyfu_mead 2011-08-07 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes! Xanatos Roulette! This wasn't a chess game, with Keller several moves ahead, because chess has more limited options. This was more like pachinko, and Keller was counting on a lot of balls to fall his way.* That they all did bothers me a little.

I feel as though I've lost Mozzie. I cared about him, or I thought I did, but that character no longer exists. He's not the same guy who put his life in jeopardy to be sure that Elizabeth got her husband back; he's a vengeful but fearful man taking risks with the lives of his best friend and his best friend's friends and co-workers to protect the secret (and yes, get revenge for the death of another friend). His behavior seemed completely inconsistent with the Moz we've seen before.

I couldn't believe Sara's behavior at all. Neal and Mozzie are clearly out of control; they don't know what the heck they're doing. Once Sara knew that a killer was after Neal and trying to get the treasure, I really think she had a responsibility to go to the authorities with what she knew. Neal's life was at stake, and even if she figures that Neal made his choice and must take his chances, she knows Peter is right behind him. Peter didn't make those choices, but he'd put his life on the line for Neal. Keller's in the wind.

I've started to dread episodes, fearing that they'll destroy characters about whom I really care. Mozzie was the first to go. I can't imagine anything they can do now that will ever allow me to think of Mozzie truly fondly again. I never saw him as a killer, but if you take out a contract on someone's life, you're responsible for that person's murder. I hope they don't ruin anyone else I care about—but I'm already upset that Neal knows about the hit and is now an accessory to the whole thing.

The only good thing about this episode in my view was seeing Peter and Elizabeth. They are genuinely good people, and they continue to be genuinely good people. I love them together.

* The English professor in me is screaming that I've moved from roulette to pachinko, but roulette seems to me too simple for what Keller was doing.

[identity profile] ivy03.livejournal.com 2011-08-09 11:57 am (UTC)(link)
I've never quite gotten over how the episode that introduced Keller was so heavily coded in terms of class. Neal - refined and upper class, good! Keller - crass and blue collar, bad!
ext_3572: (Default)

[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 08:19 am (UTC)(link)
I admit, I was so confused by how Keller got away that I nearly forgot everything else that happened in the ep. For the scenes afterwards I was like, so where's Keller? Did he die? He couldn't have just gotten away, that would just be silly...wait, he did? How??? I have a really hard time buying that a trained FBI agent with Peter's level of competence couldn't hold onto a man they just had in custody, who they fully know is tricksy and quite dangerous, who had just been shot! Sloppy, guys! :P (the writers as much as the agents...)

(Peter's hand on Mozzie's shoulder, though, awww!)
ext_3572: (Default)

[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Ahhh, Keller went over the railing? I missed that entirely ^^; Okay, that makes more sense, then...yeah, I think I thought Keller was someone else. So mot bad writing so much as poor action-direction, but since WC's not really an action show that's more forgivable...
aelfgyfu_mead: Aelfgyfu as a South Park-style cartoon (Very angry indeed)

[personal profile] aelfgyfu_mead 2011-08-07 08:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I genuinely expected that multiple hitpersons were going to show up
Yes! How is it possible that only Raquel was there? Unless she followed Neal from her place, I can't understand how she could get there before more professional hitters showed up. If she followed Neal, however, I wouldn't expect her to shoot Keller from above.

[identity profile] ivy03.livejournal.com 2011-08-09 01:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Wait--he fell over a railing? I totally didn't see that.

Also, that scene left me with no ability to respect Dushku's character. Okay, so you're going to kill Keller for the money. You do it when he's in custody, surrounded by a load of FBI agents, in a building with no alternate exits? How did you think that was going to work out for ya?

[identity profile] wildcat88.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 02:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Without spoilers for next week (because, seriously, I can't remember a thing from the promo) I think this ep was all set up.

First, that kiss couldn't have been Raquel getting the scarab out of Neal's pocket. She's in custody, going to jail. Where is she going to keep it? That was "Thanks for taking it and keeping it for me until I get out of jail." She'll be back another day.

Next, I'm not sure the list Neal has is the one from Peter's safe. He isn't an idiot. He took a picture of it with his phone. I think what we were seeing is that picture which would include the image of the evidence bag it was in.

Did Neal actually lie to Peter? I'm trying to remember his exact words. I know he said that Keller made the same assumption as Peter did - that he had the treasure. Well, that's true. They both made the same assupmtion (and they are both right). It was that tricky wording at The Palace that I'm not sure of. I believe Neal said he didn't have the treasure, which again is technically true. Mozzie has the treasure at a new location that he hasn't shared with Neal. Now, Neal is definitely walking a fine line and he is certainly guilty of misdirection and omission, but lying... I'm not so sure.

I thought Keller fell through a railing after he was winged (Peter's word when he talked to El). I thought he was going to be lying on the next floor down but when they looked, he was on his feet and running. Of course, he had to get away. He's got to come after them again.

I was a little surprised at Mozzie hiring a hitman, but I can understand his reasoning. Keller had already killed an old friend, and as Mozzie told Sara, he's the one guy who wants Neal dead. He's obviously after the treasure. What wouldn't Mozzie do to protect his future and his friend?

As for Sara perjuring herself to the FBI, is she really? She was going to give a statement about her conversation with Keller. She can honestly say she doesn't know where the treasure is. Even the IP address she had is useless since Mozzie moved it. Neal didn't tell her anything about it or show it to her. With a couple of sins of omission, she can give a true statement.

While I didn't love the ep, it was interesting to see the other side where things don't go as planned, people try and fail because they don't have the whole picture, and the bad guy gets away. Sometimes good intentions aren't enough.

Neal confessed his lie to Mozzie. Sara decided to live in her world of mostly white but shades of gray. Keller said what Neal already knew - that it would break Peter's heart when he found out Neal had the treasure. And now Neal and Mozzie are in a real pickle - Mozzie has sold the Degas that was on the list. Things are spinning totally out of Neal's control. Bring on next week!

[identity profile] swanpride.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 08:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I think he told KELLER that he didn't have the treasure in Peter's presence, and he suggested heavily that Keller's assumption is wrong a couple of times, but he didn't outright say it to Peter.

[identity profile] wildcat88.livejournal.com 2011-08-04 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
was she supposed to be taking the scarab?

I think another poster mentioned that. And it seemed likely in any other place except FBI offices...

And I don't think Mozzie actually moved it, did he?

That's what I thought he was doing when he boxed up the Degas, but perhaps he only took that one piece. Now that you mention changing the IP address, that makes more sense.

I'm not sure Mozzie was thinking clearly with his plan. Then again, he's obviously dealt with hiring hitmen through the priest before so perhaps he was comfortable with the abilities of the shooters to hit the target instead of Neal.

I wonder who Raquel was talking to on the phone when she metioned Keller was at her place. Was that a buyer? Her boss? Someone who matters or just a mysterious voice?

Honestly, it doesn't matter whether Neal has technically told the truth to Peter about the treasure or not. He did before he knew Mozzie took the treasure but once he knew and concealed it, every interaction with Peter became a lie. I still think in Neal's mind he hasn't lied to Peter's face but it won't matter if Peter finds out Neal has seen, touched, conspired over and assisted in hiding the treasure. Peter will never trust Neal again. I hope the conclusion of this arc does it justice.

[identity profile] kriadydragon.livejournal.com 2011-08-03 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I was iffy about this episode at first but after giving it some thought realized I kind of liked it. I felt Keller pretty well utilized as a monkey wrench to take the treasure situation from relatively stable to FUBAR, forcing a lot out into the open and setting the way for things to come to head. It was going to happen eventually, anyway, one way or another.

I feel the show did well setting Keller up as the kind of bad guy who can throw Neal off his game, and each time he shows up it's always a little bit worse. So that everyone wasn't their usual clever selves, that we were seeing the worst being brought out in them, made sense to me (but a lot of it is also based on how I personally see the characters. I actually do see Mozzie as having a darker side - not exactly violent or quick to be violent but not necessarily above letting others do a little dirty work for him, and he was pretty ticked. Although, yes, I think a little more build-up to this darker side of Mozzie would have been nice).

Things have to get worse before they get better so I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of the characters fumbling and digging the deception even deeper. I'm not looking forward to that (not with how popular punished!Neal stories are, and I'm really not happy with Mozzie's actions though I understand them) but I think it's inevitable.

[identity profile] kriadydragon.livejournal.com 2011-08-04 03:03 am (UTC)(link)
I'm pretty sure that a lot of my unhappiness with it yesterday was that I'd had certain expectations/hopes for a new episode with Keller in it

That I get because I was pretty much the same way. I was hoping for something a bit more (yes, specifically something whumpy), and it left me with a lot of mixed feelings for a little while (I know this show is whump lite but I just can't seem to stop hoping).

I think WC isn't really a show to make things so messy that when things do come to a head they practically explode. They like to resolve things pretty quick, especially episode by episode, and like to save the big stuff for the finales. I think this ep was meant to be a close call, to show us that matters are getting worse and can only get worse from here. That said, because this show likes to keep things from getting so overly complicated those complications never end, or get out of control *cough*Lost,Heroes*cough* we can eventually expect a resolve that will manage to lead the show back to normalcy for the next story arc.

Unless the show decides to change its MO. So, yes, I do worry a little. And those cliffhangers can be pretty mean :/

[identity profile] swanpride.livejournal.com 2011-08-04 02:45 pm (UTC)(link)
It's a good observation - Keller startet out as a simple rival of Neal, developed to the man ready to kill Peter and now was ready to kill Neal too.

I'm very happy with the tendency of providing fast solutions in WC. I hate shows in which a big mystery is dragged on and on and on....But they have to be careful that they keep a propper pace. Normally it's like a rollercoster: a slow build up ending up in a speedy downwards spiral. This season was like "speed up, full stop, speed up" concerning the overall storyarc - I still have a whiplash. But I'm glad that they finally moving forward, never mind the speed.

I think there was enough built up for Mozzie - that's the guy who held a patsy to beat people up when he was twelfe. I know people tended to focus on the cute parts in TDoD, but Mozzie grew up in a very violent enviroment, and has no calms to use violence himself if he deems it necessary, and he can be very vengentful.

[identity profile] kriadydragon.livejournal.com 2011-08-05 02:42 am (UTC)(link)
that's the guy who held a patsy to beat people up when he was twelfe. I know people tended to focus on the cute parts in TDoD, but Mozzie grew up in a very violent enviroment, and has no calms to use violence himself if he deems it necessary, and he can be very vengentful.

True, I'd actually kind of forgotten about that part in TDoD. For me it was easy to see Mozzie having a darker side because he doesn't "really" have the same boundaries as Neal, and enjoys living life by his own rules much more than Neal does (because we know Neal was willing to give that life up, while Mozzie would rather he didn't). We know Neal hates violence but we were never told if Mozzie is the same, so for me it left open the possibility of Mozzie having a darker side.
sheron: RAF bi-plane doodle (Johns) (Default)

[personal profile] sheron 2011-08-03 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm actually really enjoying watching Neal & Mozzie interract, and watching how their paths are currently diverging.

[identity profile] schneefink.livejournal.com 2011-08-04 07:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I love the Neal&Mozzie plot right now. While I do think they could have set it up a little bit better, I was willing to believe them that Mozzie would take out a hit on Keller. We've seen him increasingly anxious to get out of New York, even though he gets closer to Peter, especially in this episode. And then he feels personally responsible for leading Keller to Hale, is afraid for Neal, and is afraid the treasure, their only way out, is going to disappear. No wonder he didn't stop to think things through all the way (and I wonder if, in the first moment, he thought of sending hitmen to the place Neal was going to meet with Keller as sending backup that would arrive more quickly than the FBI.) I don't think he would have if he'd known that Neal lied to him. This is going to be interesting.
But maybe I'm biased because I like Mozzie, and I want to like him.

I do think it wouldn't have worked as well with any random criminal. Keller was seen as a threat and threw everyone off their game, a random criminal wouldn't have. I wasn't impressed with the egyptologist, I would have preferred Alex.

[identity profile] swanpride.livejournal.com 2011-08-05 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
*smushes* It's hard, but we have all been there. The only cure is reading and writing a lot of fanfic. With the fic exchange coming up during the hiatus and the usual christmas fics, I'm sure we will manage - somehow....and you can always watch the show in the proper order.

[identity profile] schneefink.livejournal.com 2011-08-05 05:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh, it's the other way around for me. After having some time to think it over I realized how many stupid mistakes they made. But I'm trying to ignore it, as always when watching TV - SGA gave me a lot of practice. ^^

Cliffhanger :( But I'm sure you'll find something to do with the time *looks at dragon!Neal* xD

[identity profile] ivy03.livejournal.com 2011-08-09 11:38 am (UTC)(link)
Them bringing up the looting of the Egyptian Museum made me sadface. I do not like my fluffy shows touching real current events that were really upsetting to me. It's kind of hard to do a lighthearted, fun Egyptology episode right now, with the stuff that's (still) going on there.

I did like the way that this episode brought Neal and Mozzie's relationship to a possible breaking point. Because so far, Neal's actions under Mozzie's urging have had the potential to destroy his relationship with Peter. But for it to be a genuine choice for Neal, he needs to know that either way, he might lose something, and his trying to have it every way means he'll lose everything.

If they resolve this with a treasure-poofing deus ex machina, I will be very pissed. This needs to be Neal's choice. But so far they've been very good with follow-through on that sort of thing.