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Last night's White Collar
THIS SHOW. ♥ ♥ ♥ Still my happy place! (Though yeah ... did kinda spoil myself for the climax of the episode ... at least the action plot. Not the emotional plot, though! \o/ Still, gonna try to be good and avoid looking at pictures/previews for the next couple of episodes ... *tries to be strong*)
Remember that comment of Neal's a few weeks ago that you don't change until you hit rock bottom? I think this is the episode where he hit rock bottom.
The conversation between Peter and Neal at the end ... SO MUCH WIN. \o/ I love that Neal told Peter about Sara right away ... that Peter's definitely one of his emotional-comfort go-to people. And that conversation at the end, I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I'VE WATCHED IT. ♥ And one of the things that makes me love it, honestly, is that I do think Peter has ulterior motives too! It's the genuine offer of friendship/support that it appears to be, and also yet another attempt to sound Neal out about the U-boat thing (or maybe offer him another chance to come clean). One of the things I adore about this show is that Peter and Neal's conversations are always so layered. There's absolutely no doubt about the genuine emotion underlying their interactions, and yet, there are SO MANY of their conversations and interactions when you can't quite tell if one or both of them is trying to play the other one, while also being sincere at the same time.
And while I'm at it, all the conversations in this episode pertaining to the main emotional arc were TOTAL WIN - especially Neal's drunken sharing-of-feelings with Jones. \o/ (Random side thing #1: I love how, when Neal gets drunk on the show with someone else, he never actually gets drunk - I'm thinking of some of his conversations with Peter here, too. He's really good at keeping himself level-headed and in control, and making sure that the other person is getting just that little bit drunker than he is. Random thing #2: I am still convinced that Neal's upbringing was not very well-off. I don't necessarily think he lived in actual poverty as a kid, but I think his family was definitely close to the bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum, because, take it from someone who grew up poor, his instant, knee-jerk "I never want to worry about money again" is so perfectly spot-on for someone who grew up always having to worry about money (and also helps explain another part of the draw of the U-boat con for him)).
And now Neal is lying to Mozzie - not just his usual sort of oblique indirection, but outright lying, and I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THIS. *flails* For one thing, if he was going to lie about it, this is actually a REALLY DUMB LIE - now that he knows which manifest page Peter & Diana have, and Mozzie doesn't, this is going to put him in a very weird position in every future conversation with Mozzie about selling the treasure (however many of those conversations they have remaining to them; the writing is definitely on the wall at this point)! He's just going to have to either keep lying and lying, or simply wait to get caught. On the other hand, the sheer implausibility of it is a good indication of how off-balance he is at that moment - he doesn't have time to come up with a good lie, or figure out what to tell Mozzie in general, and he's just stuck with whatever his brain flings at him.
Everyone is so totally caught between a rock and a hard place right now. Neal, of course, is stuck in SO many ways, but Peter is too - I think he's trying to play both ends against the middle right now, chasing Neal while trying to protect him, in his own way, by both keeping the investigation on the down-low, and giving Neal every possible opportunity to come clean about it. And Mozzie is, I suspect, getting himself into WAY MORE TROUBLE than he realizes (for one thing because, though far more subtly and slowly than Neal, I really do think that he's getting sucked emotionally into the Burke household too; he did seem to have qualms about breaking in, or at least sympathize/empathize with Neal's guilt, and I can't imagine Mozzie being at all bothered by it even a year ago).
Talking to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
dreamingoctober about this the other day, I said I couldn't think of a way out of this that wasn't going to hurt everyone, but actually, I can: if Neal and Mozzie repatriate the treasure, ASAP. They still technically committed a crime, but between the fact that Peter is almost certainly as close to fence-sitting as he can get away with on this one, and the fact that the show has a history of letting criminals off the hook for making amends, I am pretty sure that donating the art to a Russian museum or something along those lines really could get them out of it without too much damage. (I seriously doubt it's going to be that easy - for one thing, even though it looks like Neal has kinda-sorta figured out which side of the line he falls on, convincing Mozzie is going to be a whole other thing. But the possibility is there!)
I also think that having built the storyline over the course of a whole season is going a long way towards preventing the eventual revelation from torpedoing Neal's relationship with Peter. Really, I don't think it would have done it anyway, because Peter has never managed to stay mad at Neal in the past for any length of time (which is one thing that makes me go "... seriously?" at some fanfic; he just doesn't). And honestly, I am pretty sure at this point that any overt acknowledgment that Neal has the treasure is going to be met with more of a resigned "Yeah, I know, now what do we do about it?" reaction from Peter than anger, condemnation or anything like that. He's had time to think about it and come to terms with it. And, as usual, they both know what's going on with each other - Peter knows Neal has the treasure, even if he doesn't know the whole story and can't get him to admit it; Neal knows he knows and that he's investigating him ... actually, I'm pretty sure even MOZZIE, at the end, knows that Neal isn't giving him the whole truth. This show has a really unusual way of stringing out suspense, where it's not so much that the characters are keeping each other in the dark about stuff - it's more that they're trying to, but they're all so canny and sneaky that they're constantly figuring it out anyway, and then it's a matter of ferreting out the truth from each other while not admitting that they know what they know (and keeping their own secrets besides).
Remember that comment of Neal's a few weeks ago that you don't change until you hit rock bottom? I think this is the episode where he hit rock bottom.
The conversation between Peter and Neal at the end ... SO MUCH WIN. \o/ I love that Neal told Peter about Sara right away ... that Peter's definitely one of his emotional-comfort go-to people. And that conversation at the end, I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I'VE WATCHED IT. ♥ And one of the things that makes me love it, honestly, is that I do think Peter has ulterior motives too! It's the genuine offer of friendship/support that it appears to be, and also yet another attempt to sound Neal out about the U-boat thing (or maybe offer him another chance to come clean). One of the things I adore about this show is that Peter and Neal's conversations are always so layered. There's absolutely no doubt about the genuine emotion underlying their interactions, and yet, there are SO MANY of their conversations and interactions when you can't quite tell if one or both of them is trying to play the other one, while also being sincere at the same time.
And while I'm at it, all the conversations in this episode pertaining to the main emotional arc were TOTAL WIN - especially Neal's drunken sharing-of-feelings with Jones. \o/ (Random side thing #1: I love how, when Neal gets drunk on the show with someone else, he never actually gets drunk - I'm thinking of some of his conversations with Peter here, too. He's really good at keeping himself level-headed and in control, and making sure that the other person is getting just that little bit drunker than he is. Random thing #2: I am still convinced that Neal's upbringing was not very well-off. I don't necessarily think he lived in actual poverty as a kid, but I think his family was definitely close to the bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum, because, take it from someone who grew up poor, his instant, knee-jerk "I never want to worry about money again" is so perfectly spot-on for someone who grew up always having to worry about money (and also helps explain another part of the draw of the U-boat con for him)).
And now Neal is lying to Mozzie - not just his usual sort of oblique indirection, but outright lying, and I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THIS. *flails* For one thing, if he was going to lie about it, this is actually a REALLY DUMB LIE - now that he knows which manifest page Peter & Diana have, and Mozzie doesn't, this is going to put him in a very weird position in every future conversation with Mozzie about selling the treasure (however many of those conversations they have remaining to them; the writing is definitely on the wall at this point)! He's just going to have to either keep lying and lying, or simply wait to get caught. On the other hand, the sheer implausibility of it is a good indication of how off-balance he is at that moment - he doesn't have time to come up with a good lie, or figure out what to tell Mozzie in general, and he's just stuck with whatever his brain flings at him.
Everyone is so totally caught between a rock and a hard place right now. Neal, of course, is stuck in SO many ways, but Peter is too - I think he's trying to play both ends against the middle right now, chasing Neal while trying to protect him, in his own way, by both keeping the investigation on the down-low, and giving Neal every possible opportunity to come clean about it. And Mozzie is, I suspect, getting himself into WAY MORE TROUBLE than he realizes (for one thing because, though far more subtly and slowly than Neal, I really do think that he's getting sucked emotionally into the Burke household too; he did seem to have qualms about breaking in, or at least sympathize/empathize with Neal's guilt, and I can't imagine Mozzie being at all bothered by it even a year ago).
Talking to
dreamingoctober about this the other day, I said I couldn't think of a way out of this that wasn't going to hurt everyone, but actually, I can: if Neal and Mozzie repatriate the treasure, ASAP. They still technically committed a crime, but between the fact that Peter is almost certainly as close to fence-sitting as he can get away with on this one, and the fact that the show has a history of letting criminals off the hook for making amends, I am pretty sure that donating the art to a Russian museum or something along those lines really could get them out of it without too much damage. (I seriously doubt it's going to be that easy - for one thing, even though it looks like Neal has kinda-sorta figured out which side of the line he falls on, convincing Mozzie is going to be a whole other thing. But the possibility is there!)I also think that having built the storyline over the course of a whole season is going a long way towards preventing the eventual revelation from torpedoing Neal's relationship with Peter. Really, I don't think it would have done it anyway, because Peter has never managed to stay mad at Neal in the past for any length of time (which is one thing that makes me go "... seriously?" at some fanfic; he just doesn't). And honestly, I am pretty sure at this point that any overt acknowledgment that Neal has the treasure is going to be met with more of a resigned "Yeah, I know, now what do we do about it?" reaction from Peter than anger, condemnation or anything like that. He's had time to think about it and come to terms with it. And, as usual, they both know what's going on with each other - Peter knows Neal has the treasure, even if he doesn't know the whole story and can't get him to admit it; Neal knows he knows and that he's investigating him ... actually, I'm pretty sure even MOZZIE, at the end, knows that Neal isn't giving him the whole truth. This show has a really unusual way of stringing out suspense, where it's not so much that the characters are keeping each other in the dark about stuff - it's more that they're trying to, but they're all so canny and sneaky that they're constantly figuring it out anyway, and then it's a matter of ferreting out the truth from each other while not admitting that they know what they know (and keeping their own secrets besides).
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I just know that it was high time that they went back to Neal's choice and his wonky relationship with Peter - the last three eps felt like a giant filler. With Keller coming back next week and the summer finale the week after, I now expect a real bomb to make up for this.
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Vanservice. Hee. This show in general does a lot of neat callbacks to previous episodes -- little throwaway bits of dialogue that reference things that happened before. And yeah, things are coming down to the wire now. I can't wait for next week! :D
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If I were writing the show, anyway, that's how I would do it.
I'm not loving it quite so much. Neal is a mess, and he's very close to ruining himself and everything he has. I want him to get a grip! Clinton told him: he has everything ("plus an ankle monitor"). I'm also angry at the way he violated Peter's trust. That's simultaneously professional and personal, and Mozzie drew Elizabeth out in a really personal way, too. I'm glad they feel guilty! I have very little sympathy for Neal and Mozzie at this point. I have a lot for Peter, and for Elizabeth; I hope she never finds out that Mozzie took her out for the evening to get her out of the house. I feel I'm too emotionally invested in the show. I expected more from Neal (maybe I shouldn't have, but Peter and Elizabeth and Sara did too!), and I'm not happy with Mozzie.
I do agree that anyone who lists never wanting to worry about money that quickly grew up insecure about it.
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And now that Neal has the list, he actually can give Keller exactle the parts of the treasure Peter is looking for.
I'm finally back to loving the show - nothing better than giving MB acting skills a full work out.
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Otherwise, though ... I'm not having that much trouble with Neal and Mozzie's duplicity. It's not that I think they aren't doing something morally shady, but it doesn't seem to me that it's inconsistent with how they've acted in the past, and I think the show itself is doing a good enough job of showing Neal's guilt and divided loyalties that I'm not feeling like something is lacking. Getting conned is a hazard of being friends with a con artist! And I feel as if the show has more, hmm, integrity or honesty or something than a lot of shows would under these circumstances, in that they actually go ahead and show Neal conning his friends, even though he feels bad about it -- it's something that he has to fight a constant battle with temptation not to do, and I think the show is fairly up-front about that. You can't be a pathological liar for years and then suddenly switch over to telling the truth all the time without struggling.
I wouldn't want this to keep up indefinitely, but I do think that it was pretty clear last night that Neal felt like he crossed a line, and that he's starting to realize the magnitude of what he's risking. It's hard for me to quite articulate why this isn't bothering me with White Collar, when the EXACT THING that's driving me crazy in Heroes is that the characters keep waffling across the good-evil line and I don't know who to root for. I don't know ... I guess it's that there is no doubt in my mind that Neal is a good guy, and that he's just messed up enough that he doesn't know any way of relating to people without fucking things up eventually. The thing is, though, that I think (hope) that the people in his life right now care about him enough that they're all going to be able to weather this and get the trust and friendship back as strong as it was before, even after the secrets come out. I think I'd be a lot more bothered by it if I was afraid that he was in danger of ruining things permanently, but I don't think so -- I'm pretty sure that Peter and El kinda know what they've gotten themselves into, with the whole "being friends with con artists" thing, and that it isn't going to be a giant issue when the truth comes out.
I think I'd have more trouble dealing with it if Neal and Mozzie were actively out to hurt Peter and El, but they're not, and aside from the risk to Peter's career if Neal runs (which I don't think Neal has fully thought through), the worst thing that's being risked is some bruised feelings.
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I am glad that Neal seemed to grasp how badly he was going wrong. I want to believe that he's a good guy. Part of my problem is that I can't get over what he's hiding. I'd be far happier if it were forged bonds or $100 bills. I was shocked that he'd draw a line at stealing the identity of a dead baby when he doesn't draw the line at stealing art that was taken from people who were slaughtered. Maybe that's because my dad is an historian with a particular interest in WWII. To me, that art is closely connected to the Holocaust, and I can't get around it.
I also have a problem with getting too attached to characters. I feel that Neal has let me down, which is so obviously ridiculous that I'm slightly embarrassed to admit it, but I'm pretty sure I've admitted more embarrassing things on LJ already. I also feel that Peter and Elizabeth should have more than "bruised feelings" when they find out about this, because Neal has so badly abused their trust! There I go, projecting again. I know that Peter and Elizabeth know the score: Neal's a con man. He has conned Peter before, and he'll do it again. But he conned Peter before to find Kate, to run off with Kate, and then to find her killer. This is just about money, and even if Neal comes from a background where he constantly worried about money (as strongly suggested by this latest episode), I don't get it. Neal has said that his cons weren't about money; it's always been "about the people." That's a weird thing to say when he's taking advantage of people, but I think he has thought of Kate, and Alex, and Mozzie, as his people, and they were the people he meant. I think he ought to include Peter, Elizabeth, and June in that number.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! I wish I could enjoy it the way you do now! I loved the first and second seasons, but this one keeps leaving me with a sour feeling.
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Yeah, this is one area where I guess I'm viewing it as a failure on the part of the writers rather than something that is meant to be part of the characterization of the characters, if that makes any sense? It just isn't really consistent with any of their past behavior that this WOULD be something they'd be okay with (even Peter seems to be okay with it; it's the theft that bothers him, not the fact that it's art stolen from Holocaust victims), so I'm basically putting it down to the writers not really knowing what they're dealing with, rather than incorporating it into my view of the characters. Yes, I'm rationalizing, and I know it. *g*
ETA: And I'm really not trying to talk you into liking this season or anything! I know that a lot of people are having problems with a lot of the developments this season, and I'm totally okay with that. Just because I'm enjoying the season doesn't mean everyone has to!
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Yes! About halfway through the ep I was grinding my teeth over the Nazi artwork thing, and then I watched Neal slowly coming apart as he broke into Peter's house and THEN this conversation... I have now totally revised my opinion of this arc. Well done!
And now Neal is lying to Mozzie - not just his usual sort of oblique indirection, but outright lying, and I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THIS. *flails*
You weren't the only one flailing. I'm amazed you didn't hear me squealing all the way from here. I almost fell out of my chair. The only thing that I could've loved more than the conversation between Peter and Neal is Neal seemingly choosing right over wrong. I still can't believe he outright lied to Mozzie about it. If I could've hugged my TV, I would have.
I thought it was quiet telling of Peter's headspace that when Neal admitted to impersonating an admiral, Peter instructed everyone to forget he said it and to put their pencils down. (Pencils? Really?) However, I don't think Peter is going to easily forgive Neal's deception over the loot. He needs to either call in an anonymous tip on the warehouse (as long as nothing can trace back to him and Mozzie), ship it to a museum with a "finders keepers" note, or use it as
Loved the bonding between Neal and Jones. (Random thought - loved seeing Sharif Atkins in the opening montage but I'm wondering why he is still listed as a guest star in the credits.) I'm also impressed with Neal's reaction to Sara leaving (and Sara actually leaving without ratting him out). Mozzie encourages him to break ties. Neal tells Peter it's over though not his idea, and yet when Peter asks if the phone call was from Sara, Neal says she won't take his calls. I wonder what he would say if she did. Is he trying to get her back or the life he had with her? The dream of the life he could have?
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Yes! OH NEAL. He's so messed up this season - I admit I've been liking the arc all along, but this episode really threw his quandary into sharp relief (and also brought the Peter-Neal interaction in a really satisfying way). I think he's known all along that he wasn't going to be able to take the treasure and run without, on some level, betraying Peter and El, but this episode he was forced to stare that side of himself in the face and he didn't like it. And now he's keeping secrets from Mozzie as well as Peter, and everything is coming down around his ears. EEEEEE. I mean, I'm not eeee'ing because Neal is in trouble, but because things are finally coming to a head, and the reason why it hurts them so much is because these characters really care about each other. I'm confident that they can all get through it, but it's going to be pretty rough in the meantime.
Is he trying to get her back or the life he had with her? The dream of the life he could have?
I don't know. I've said before that I thought Neal was more in love with the idea of being in love than with Sara herself, which means it's probably better for both of them if they split up for a while. I think that Neal has to get his head screwed on straight before he's able to have a relationship with anyone right now. Which wouldn't rule out the possibility that they might get back together at some point in the future, though.
Random thought - loved seeing Sharif Atkins in the opening montage but I'm wondering why he is still listed as a guest star in the credits.
I read somewhere that this was actually Sharif Atkins' request -- he wanted to remain on recurring status to leave him open to audition for pilots on other shows. Which made me feel a lot better about it, because, yeah, I was really wondering why they hadn't offered the poor guy contract status when he's been in almost every episode for three years! But I was delighted to see him in the opening montage now. :D
ETA to comment on this part:
I thought it was quiet telling of Peter's headspace that when Neal admitted to impersonating an admiral, Peter instructed everyone to forget he said it and to put their pencils down.
Yeah. I think Peter really does want to protect Neal and is willing to go a long way to do it. I'm getting even more curious about how the whole story is going to come out, and how Peter's going to react when it does.
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Here's what perplexes me. Did they actually commit a crime? I've always thought the entire treasure trove would be considered salvage, fair game- bloody salvage, but abandoned cargo none-the-less. Sure, they could face civil litigation for the return of certain items but I'm still not sure where the actual crime part came in. Unless it was stealing it from Adler to begin with, which is kind of a grey area.
And Mozzie was the actual thief, not Neal. Though there is a bit of obstructing justice on Neal's part, if there was crime.
Confused by the whole silly story line :o/
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They've piled a number of additional crimes on top of it now (arson, theft/forgery of various official documents) but that is, wow, yeah, a really good question that I don't know the answer to.
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But yeah, to sort this mess out and pin anything on Neal and Mozzie safe for not turning over the treasure would be difficult - and if the treasure would turn up elsewhere, I don't think that they would be able to link them to it (or even being interested to do it).
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The writers are so good with multi-layered emotional resonance. I had so many conflicted feelings through this episode!
I have to say, I was in mighty discomfort at Neal and Mozzie breaking into (BREAKING INTO) the Burke home. It's mostly because I think about Elizabeth and how she would feel knowing that the nice evening Mozzie took her on was just a ploy so that her house could be invaded by someone she trusts. It just makes me so sad. I think I might over-empathize with El, a little bit! XD
(It might also be because I WANT MORE EL IN THIS SHOW AND SHE SIMPLY ISN'T THERE LATELY AND YES I KNOW MS. THIESSAN IS A NEW MOTHER WHO HAS STUFF TO DO BUT OH PLEASE I WANT MORE ELIZABETH...)
I don't know... I don't know if this is Neal's rock bottom. I think he's close, but he's not quite there. I think (for dramatic emphasis if nothing else) he needs to be shaken with the knowledge of how much he has to lose before he really finds himself on his back at the bottom of the well. But this shook him a little if nothing else - I like to think that as he was sitting on that bed, looking at Peter and El's picture and having that wonderful conversation with Peter, he was thinking, "WTF am I doing?" Especially after Jones pointed out to him that he already has what he wants out of life. He knows he stands to lose it, but I don't think it's quite sunk in yet.
I'm still pissed at Mozzie. I love Mozzie, but I'm still mad as hell at him! And one thing I do want resolved, if the truth comes out about this stolen treasure - I want Peter to KNOW that Moz instigated this whole thing and dragged Neal into it with him, that Neal did not plan it.
The conversation with Peter - <3 <3 <3 - OH PETER. THE FONDNESS IN YOUR VOICE. I wanted to kick Neal for being in the Burke house in the middle of betraying Peter's and El's trust. AGH. So frustrating.
Anyway. It was a great episode, and I like it but didn't love it because it twisted me too much emotionally, which means it worked the way it was supposed to, I think. :D
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Scenes like the one at the end give me hope for that, though. Because, yeah, like you said -- the fondness in Peter's voice, the obvious affection in that scene ... even with all that's come between them, they really do care deeply for each other, and El is friends with both Neal and Mozzie, too -- I just don't believe, no matter what happens, that they could lose that. I've got my fingers crossed that they'll come out of this stronger and closer than before.
And one thing I do want resolved, if the truth comes out about this stolen treasure - I want Peter to KNOW that Moz instigated this whole thing and dragged Neal into it with him, that Neal did not plan it.
Oh yes, me too! I really, really want that -- actually, I'll be very disappointed if we don't get that, because one of the things that's been pretty consistent about Peter and Neal's relationship is that Neal doesn't lie to Peter's face: he twists the truth into all kinds of pretzel-shapes, but if he flat-out says something, he means it. And I think they need to be able to still have that, and the only way they're going to have it is if Peter knows that Neal didn't outright lie to him about stealing the treasure back at the warehouse.
But I do hope, like you, that El doesn't find out Mozzie lied to her. That did make me sad. :((( I don't really feel that way about most of the deceptions that Peter, Neal and Mozzie perpetrate on each other -- all three of them, I think, have a kind of tacit understanding about it. But El isn't really part of that game, and I would feel better about it if she doesn't know. I think she'd forgive him, but it would hurt.