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So apparently I am watching White Collar now?
And enjoying it ridiculous amounts. *g* I don't think I'm really fannish about it, but this show is terribly fun.
And I'm watching it a bit differently than I watch some shows. With White Collar, I really do not care about being spoiled; I actually started watching (after trying it in season one and not really liking it) because I'd been reading meta about this season's meta-arc, and wanted to see a couple of those episodes so that I actually understood what I was reading. And then I liked the characters, so I've been cherry-picking episodes from season two to see more of them.
Thus far my favorite episode of the ones I've seen has actually been the one that sold me on the show: the most recent one, 3x03. It was adorable in pretty much every way, and it gave great ensemble, and then the last little bit at the end made me flip over from just having fun with the show to going, "Whoa, I love these characters and I want to see more of them!"
Because, dude. Peter is playing Neal. Or, more accurately, I'm pretty sure that he's gently pushing Neal's buttons in an attempt to make Neal 'fess up and do the right thing before they catch up with him, because Peter believes that Neal's got it in him to choose friends and found-family over money. I'm not sure if he knows for sure that Neal's got the treasure, but he certainly suspects it, and with the clock running down, I really do think that Peter is both doing his job to the best of his ability (because that's who he is) and trying to give Neal enough leash to do the moral thing before the feds, led by Peter, catch him. That last comment about family, and then that little glance at Neal -- oh yeah. He really does believe in Neal, and he really does believe Neal is capable of doing the right thing (Peter's definition of the right thing, that is -- which is also the thing that won't cost Neal everything he's built here) before it's too late, with the help of a nudge here and there.
Now that I've seen more of it, I definitely do get the issues that people have with the blood-art thing, and if this season's meta-plot was going to be "running away with a whole bunch of stolen treasure", I really, really, really wish that they had chosen to do it with almost anything else than looted Nazi art. It's giving opportunities for great character interaction, but oh, I wish that it had been something less emotionally loaded and full of problems in the way they're handling it. Damn it, show. >_>
It's frustrating because I like almost everything else about the show! I love the cons/stings and the character interactions and even the casting of minor characters. Though I really don't care much about the meta-arcs in general -- I'm discovering quickly, even through the random episodes I've watched, that I really, really don't care about the Kate-Adler arc in season two. I don't hate it, and maybe it's just 'cause I already know how it turns out, but for some reason it bores me to death -- whereas usually I'm more interested in the long story arcs, in this show I mostly I just care in terms of how it affects the characters.
Because I really do love the characters.
I think the biggest thing I adore about them is that they're all smart and clever and competent! But not super-competent, can-never-make-a-mistake competent. Although I love con/sting/heist shows and movies in general, my biggest problem with a lot of them is that I hate it when the characters' million-variable Xanatos gambits go perfectly due to coincidences that they could not possibly have foreseen and planned for. (This was actually one of the reasons I stopped watching Leverage; it did it to me once too often.) I don't want the characters to be criminal genius masterminds all the time, even if they actually are criminal genius masterminds, because no one is right every time, and how much fun is that, anyway? I want to see them failing, and then having to use their cleverness and competence to get out of it.
So another thing that actually sold me on the show in 3x03 is that Neal's first plan to switch the briefcase, while clever and something that he and Mozzie have probably practiced a million times, didn't work, not because of incompetence but because of a factor he couldn't possibly have foreseen. And then he has to make up something else on the fly. And he gets Sarah's help to do it. Which is another thing I love about this show -- even though the characters are all good at what they do, their plans generally rely on teamwork, and end up using everybody's unique skills in order to get the desired result. SWEET.
Random side note: no more exposure than I've had to the fandom, I've gotten the impression that the fandom in general doesn't like Sarah/Neal. I am so baffled by this! I love them! Perhaps it's at least partly that they were already a couple when I first encountered them, so even in the earlier episodes where they're just getting to know each other, I already think of them and relate to them as an established couple, as I also do with Peter/Elizabeth. But, but ... they're so neat together! They're bantery and fun and they really get and respect each other, and she helps him pull off cons. ♥(I actually thought at first that she was lying to Diana & Christie about being a legal-type person, as part of whatever scam she and Neal were running on them, and was actually a con artist like Neal. But no! She's a cop and he's a con, and yet even in the earliest episode that I've seen with them so far -- the one where she helps him and Peter scam the guys at the yacht club -- she's already got a lovely bantery, flirty, teamwork thing going with Neal.
And while I'm on the topic of couples, PETER/ELIZABETH 4EVAH. ♥ ♥ ♥ The episode I just watched was the one where they had their "fight" before Peter got kidnapped, and it was SO cute and adorable and awesome! They're great -- I love, love, love that they're so respectful and understanding of each other; I love that they've been together so long that "hon" means "I love you" ... I just love them a lot. ♥ (And I also love that Elizabeth is cute as a button, and sexy, and stylish, and obviously Peter's dream woman, while still being shaped like a normal person rather than model-skinny. OH SHOW.)
And not to leave them out, Diana/Christie are very cute too! This show does couples very well; I am very picky in that area, and I gotta say I don't have a single complaint.
Anyway! Before I got off on all of that, I was talking about characters being competent, and I'm not done yet! Competence is a big story-kink of mine, and it's something that has been in short supply in some of the shows that I've been watching lately (... Sanctuary, I'm looking at you ...) and I think that's another of the things that's really sucked me into this show. Whether they're cops or cons, the characters are all good at what they do, and we're actually shown them being smart and resourceful and knowledgeable, rather than just told about it. They know their stuff and they can think on their feet, but they're not completely infallible and they often have to rely on each others' skill sets in order to get the job done. (Teamwork! ♥) And the plots are pretty well put together as well -- at the very least, I haven't hit an episode yet that relied on any of the characters acting like idiots or going randomly OOC in order to make the plot work. I adore that Peter's not the "dumb sidekick" with Neal being the "smart one" -- they're both really smart, and they both come up with the plans, and I am falling harder and harder for Peter's little-kid delight when Neal gets him to do things the fun way instead of the fed way. (Well, okay, I am crushing pretty hard on Peter in general. But those little-kid grins, his sparkly delight that keeps peeping through the tough-fed exterior ... yeah, that's a big part of it. ^_^)
So yeah! I find that I glaze over a bit whenever the show hits meta-plot stuff, but in general it's really a happy place for me right now.
This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/353416.html with
comments.
And I'm watching it a bit differently than I watch some shows. With White Collar, I really do not care about being spoiled; I actually started watching (after trying it in season one and not really liking it) because I'd been reading meta about this season's meta-arc, and wanted to see a couple of those episodes so that I actually understood what I was reading. And then I liked the characters, so I've been cherry-picking episodes from season two to see more of them.
Thus far my favorite episode of the ones I've seen has actually been the one that sold me on the show: the most recent one, 3x03. It was adorable in pretty much every way, and it gave great ensemble, and then the last little bit at the end made me flip over from just having fun with the show to going, "Whoa, I love these characters and I want to see more of them!"
Because, dude. Peter is playing Neal. Or, more accurately, I'm pretty sure that he's gently pushing Neal's buttons in an attempt to make Neal 'fess up and do the right thing before they catch up with him, because Peter believes that Neal's got it in him to choose friends and found-family over money. I'm not sure if he knows for sure that Neal's got the treasure, but he certainly suspects it, and with the clock running down, I really do think that Peter is both doing his job to the best of his ability (because that's who he is) and trying to give Neal enough leash to do the moral thing before the feds, led by Peter, catch him. That last comment about family, and then that little glance at Neal -- oh yeah. He really does believe in Neal, and he really does believe Neal is capable of doing the right thing (Peter's definition of the right thing, that is -- which is also the thing that won't cost Neal everything he's built here) before it's too late, with the help of a nudge here and there.
Now that I've seen more of it, I definitely do get the issues that people have with the blood-art thing, and if this season's meta-plot was going to be "running away with a whole bunch of stolen treasure", I really, really, really wish that they had chosen to do it with almost anything else than looted Nazi art. It's giving opportunities for great character interaction, but oh, I wish that it had been something less emotionally loaded and full of problems in the way they're handling it. Damn it, show. >_>
It's frustrating because I like almost everything else about the show! I love the cons/stings and the character interactions and even the casting of minor characters. Though I really don't care much about the meta-arcs in general -- I'm discovering quickly, even through the random episodes I've watched, that I really, really don't care about the Kate-Adler arc in season two. I don't hate it, and maybe it's just 'cause I already know how it turns out, but for some reason it bores me to death -- whereas usually I'm more interested in the long story arcs, in this show I mostly I just care in terms of how it affects the characters.
Because I really do love the characters.
I think the biggest thing I adore about them is that they're all smart and clever and competent! But not super-competent, can-never-make-a-mistake competent. Although I love con/sting/heist shows and movies in general, my biggest problem with a lot of them is that I hate it when the characters' million-variable Xanatos gambits go perfectly due to coincidences that they could not possibly have foreseen and planned for. (This was actually one of the reasons I stopped watching Leverage; it did it to me once too often.) I don't want the characters to be criminal genius masterminds all the time, even if they actually are criminal genius masterminds, because no one is right every time, and how much fun is that, anyway? I want to see them failing, and then having to use their cleverness and competence to get out of it.
So another thing that actually sold me on the show in 3x03 is that Neal's first plan to switch the briefcase, while clever and something that he and Mozzie have probably practiced a million times, didn't work, not because of incompetence but because of a factor he couldn't possibly have foreseen. And then he has to make up something else on the fly. And he gets Sarah's help to do it. Which is another thing I love about this show -- even though the characters are all good at what they do, their plans generally rely on teamwork, and end up using everybody's unique skills in order to get the desired result. SWEET.
Random side note: no more exposure than I've had to the fandom, I've gotten the impression that the fandom in general doesn't like Sarah/Neal. I am so baffled by this! I love them! Perhaps it's at least partly that they were already a couple when I first encountered them, so even in the earlier episodes where they're just getting to know each other, I already think of them and relate to them as an established couple, as I also do with Peter/Elizabeth. But, but ... they're so neat together! They're bantery and fun and they really get and respect each other, and she helps him pull off cons. ♥(I actually thought at first that she was lying to Diana & Christie about being a legal-type person, as part of whatever scam she and Neal were running on them, and was actually a con artist like Neal. But no! She's a cop and he's a con, and yet even in the earliest episode that I've seen with them so far -- the one where she helps him and Peter scam the guys at the yacht club -- she's already got a lovely bantery, flirty, teamwork thing going with Neal.
And while I'm on the topic of couples, PETER/ELIZABETH 4EVAH. ♥ ♥ ♥ The episode I just watched was the one where they had their "fight" before Peter got kidnapped, and it was SO cute and adorable and awesome! They're great -- I love, love, love that they're so respectful and understanding of each other; I love that they've been together so long that "hon" means "I love you" ... I just love them a lot. ♥ (And I also love that Elizabeth is cute as a button, and sexy, and stylish, and obviously Peter's dream woman, while still being shaped like a normal person rather than model-skinny. OH SHOW.)
And not to leave them out, Diana/Christie are very cute too! This show does couples very well; I am very picky in that area, and I gotta say I don't have a single complaint.
Anyway! Before I got off on all of that, I was talking about characters being competent, and I'm not done yet! Competence is a big story-kink of mine, and it's something that has been in short supply in some of the shows that I've been watching lately (... Sanctuary, I'm looking at you ...) and I think that's another of the things that's really sucked me into this show. Whether they're cops or cons, the characters are all good at what they do, and we're actually shown them being smart and resourceful and knowledgeable, rather than just told about it. They know their stuff and they can think on their feet, but they're not completely infallible and they often have to rely on each others' skill sets in order to get the job done. (Teamwork! ♥) And the plots are pretty well put together as well -- at the very least, I haven't hit an episode yet that relied on any of the characters acting like idiots or going randomly OOC in order to make the plot work. I adore that Peter's not the "dumb sidekick" with Neal being the "smart one" -- they're both really smart, and they both come up with the plans, and I am falling harder and harder for Peter's little-kid delight when Neal gets him to do things the fun way instead of the fed way. (Well, okay, I am crushing pretty hard on Peter in general. But those little-kid grins, his sparkly delight that keeps peeping through the tough-fed exterior ... yeah, that's a big part of it. ^_^)
So yeah! I find that I glaze over a bit whenever the show hits meta-plot stuff, but in general it's really a happy place for me right now.
This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/353416.html with
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Most of fandom's problem with Sarah is the way she was introduced and how her character seems to have flip-flopped since then in order to shoehorn her into the Romantic Interest slot. That's all I'll really say about it, because I don't want to start wank in your post of squee. Really, WC has so much going for it, so bring on the squee!
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Anyway, thank you for not squee-harshing. :)
And d'awww, this show is so CUTE. I've actually been watching vids for it for a little while now (because it's pretty, and there are quite a few vidders doing a good job with it), so it's really interesting to see all these clips that I'd seen out of context already!
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Some of the fanvids are pure excellence. Anything by luckybiatch is awesome, especially this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3LljE_ClR8).
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(also I cannot speak to the Neal/Sarah since Sarah didn't exist as a character in the eps I've seen, but PETER/EL HELLS YEAH. (also PETER/EL/NEAL because apparently that's how I roll. I JUST LOVE ALL OF THEM SO MUCH OKAY))
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I do think that this show might frustrate me a lot in the long run, because it's the sort of show where I start wanting some really serious, dramatic, angsty stuff to break up the cute/fun/bouncy, and they don't really seem to do that. But they do cute/fun/bouncy really well. :D
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I can see what you mean, about the cute fun bouncy! Personally I just love that, it's one of the things I like best about the show, but I can see how one might get tired of it. And hey, that's what the fic's for, right? To fill the gaps (including tonal gaps) that the show doesn't address?
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(and no worries, no chance of Heroes spoilers from me. The only things I even know about the show is that Spock plays a character, and also there are superpowers.)
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(My favourite thing about the show, hands down, is of course Neal. Not that I needed to tell you that. *g*)
edited because I can spell the characters' names!
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I do get the impression that my flist is mostly into Neal, at least judging by the posts I've noticed since I've been paying attention to it.
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Btw, I asked a while ago in a comment, but seems it got lost - how about the Highlander rewatch? Is that still on? If so, we probably should get started at some point ...
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I am not going to be 100% available for this until mid-July -- this upcoming week is pretty busy, and then the next week, I'll be traveling. I get back July 12th. On the other hand, I will certainly be around the computer off and on, so it's not like things have to be on hold 'til I get back.
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Maybe we should divvy up the first couple episodes among us, and make a sign-up post once the first discussion post is up? I think it's easier to get people to sign up if they can see a live example of how it's supposed to go ...
And there's no particular rush - it's not like it's going anywhere! I'll be away for a week in July (17th to 24th), but I should have internet access during that as well.
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It really is interesting how long it takes people to get into this show. I've mentioned before how it took me all of season one and partway into season two to get into it. Now it's pretty much the only show I look forward to with a passion. I can't even wait for it to be DVR'd, I must watch now!
For me it's one of those rare shows where I like everyone and everyone is so likable. Yes, some of them have their moments where they rub me the wrong way (Mozzie sometimes does even though I love him to bits, and - apologies - but sometimes Peter does as well). But not enough for me to ever actually dislike them.
And the team work. Oh, the team work! you can't get much teamier than having everyone plus, literally, the dogs playing a part. And, yes, the competence, the smarts, the cleverness, plans not always working but not because people are dumb. And speaking of teaminess, though you may not be fond of the overall story arc, season two has some really great ensemble moments - like Diana and Mozzie working together, and Neal and Mozzie and Jones, and Mozzie and Elizabeth, and an episode where everyone works together.
As for Sara, someone above said it that a lot of it has to do with the character than the actual pairing. A lot of people didn't like how she was introduced or how easily she fell for Neal. I didn't like Sara at first but she's grown on me, and I think her and Neal are adorable together. But, at the same time, neither do I think she's right for him, mostly because Neal wants to eventually settle down and Sara doesn't really strike me as the settling down type (not that she wouldn't make the effort, but I could see her eventually disliking it).
The only one setback to the show (for me) is how easy it is to side with Peter and not side with Neal, because Peter is on the side of the law and Neal isn't. Which actually isn't a big deal, but with Neal being my favorite and me being part of fandom, that means being subject to a lot of "Peter is always right and Neal is always wrong" in fic, meta and episode reviews (in fact I had to stop reading other people's episode reviews). And after a while it kind of gets to you (I started a post (http://kriadydragon.livejournal.com/261740.html#cutid1) on this which then turned into a Neal character study, but it explains why I stand where I stand. I do kind of pick on Peter a little but not in a bashing way).
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Some of the characters took awhile to grow on me, but I think the only one at this point that I don't particularly like is Mozzie; I do appreciate that he's important to Neal, and I think it adds a lot to the show that Neal's best friend is someone outside the FBI circle (especially since the other people on the show who are close to Neal, like Sara and June, are also friendly with the FBI characters). But I really have trouble liking him; I'm not sure why.
But all in all, they have a fabulous dynamic. :D I have been catching up on season two episodes all morning. I just want to pet them all. *pets* Like I said to you earlier, I think, I have been really happy with how ensemble-focused the show has turned out to be. I do like the way Peter and Neal relate to each other, but I don't think I'd like the show nearly as much if it was just the Peter and Neal buddy show. I love that each of them has important relationships with other people as well.
I haven't really seen what you've seen with Peter and Neal in the fandom, much, but then, I haven't dipped heavily into the fandom and I doubt if I will. Probably I'll stick with the show, mostly, and sample a bit of fic here and there. *g* But it's sad that people have to turn it into a Neal vs. Peter thing, because one of the things I love about the show is that they're both very competent, and both very good at what they do, and I think the push and pull between them is so fascinating -- the way that sometimes one of them has the upper hand, and sometimes the other one does. I guess that it's not a big surprise that Peter is my favorite character, but I like Neal too, and I think he's a very fascinating and complex character. Reducing Neal to a simple equation ("he's a criminal, therefore he's wrong") not only does him a terrible disservice as a character, but takes away most of what makes the show interesting!
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It's not so much something that's heavily prevalent, just more something that's "there." It was pretty prevalent after Point Blank aired, but fan reactions have since toned down with the focus going back to Peter/Neal friendship stuff. Still, I get a little nervous whenever an episode puts Neal and Peter at odds. I'm actually surprised that the friendship fic has stayed pretty strong considering this seasons arc.
but then, I haven't dipped heavily into the fandom and I doubt if I will.
Good idea. Once upon a time I had no intentions of getting into fandom, but I have such a weakness for fic and for a while there was so much good fic to read.
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Neal/Sarah? I'm all for it! I think Sarah is an embodiment of Neal's more rational side, whereas Alex was pure Id, so I love the tension there.
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