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... nrgh
Done with Highlander season 5 ... earlier today, actually, but I'm just now finding time to post about it ...
So, I knew that Richie died. It was the one big spoiler I had going into the series, actually. (Well, that and the general existence of some of the later characters, like Joe and Methos.) I was sort of hoping that it wouldn't happen in a way that would turn Duncan into a total basket case for the REST OF TIME, though. Well, okay, since the show's writers are cruel, cruel people, I was already expecting Duncan to blame himself somehow for Richie's death, but this is ... this was ... AUGH.
Duncan offering up his sword for Methos to kill him ... it breaks my heart all over again every time I think about it. WAAAAHHH. (That bit with Methos holding Joe while he cries, though? d'awwwwww. OH THESE PEOPLE. ♥)
As spoiler-averse as I normally am, I was kind of glad to know ahead of time about this one, because I was able to prepare myself and not be heartbroken about it. Not that it isn't an emotional kick in the teeth, partly because Richie is gone and partly because, oh, Duncan, how are you ever going to get over this.
... gnnn. Still too stuck on the ending of the episode to have much that's coherent to say about the rest of it or the previous one, aside from the fact that I really enjoyed the guys hanging out together, and it was neat to see one of Methos's flashbacks for a change! Neat to see a different view of history than Duncan's, as well, because the Shelleys and Lord Byron are absolutely not the sort of scene that Duncan would have been involved in, but it makes sense for Methos.
ETA: I think one reason why I'm not taking this as hard as I was afraid I was going to is that for me, what Highlander is all about is dealing with stuff, working through trauma, suffering life's slings and arrows, and going on. We've been through some seriously traumatic stuff already (it took me half a season, at least, to get over losing Tessa) and I think one of the big things that's made me love the show so much is that it's all about suffering the worst that life can throw at you and then getting up and going on. So, while I'm sad about Richie, I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes next, because so far the show has been pretty good at dealing with that stuff. For me, this is just another step along the journey.
This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/336754.html with
comments.
So, I knew that Richie died. It was the one big spoiler I had going into the series, actually. (Well, that and the general existence of some of the later characters, like Joe and Methos.) I was sort of hoping that it wouldn't happen in a way that would turn Duncan into a total basket case for the REST OF TIME, though. Well, okay, since the show's writers are cruel, cruel people, I was already expecting Duncan to blame himself somehow for Richie's death, but this is ... this was ... AUGH.
Duncan offering up his sword for Methos to kill him ... it breaks my heart all over again every time I think about it. WAAAAHHH. (That bit with Methos holding Joe while he cries, though? d'awwwwww. OH THESE PEOPLE. ♥)
As spoiler-averse as I normally am, I was kind of glad to know ahead of time about this one, because I was able to prepare myself and not be heartbroken about it. Not that it isn't an emotional kick in the teeth, partly because Richie is gone and partly because, oh, Duncan, how are you ever going to get over this.
... gnnn. Still too stuck on the ending of the episode to have much that's coherent to say about the rest of it or the previous one, aside from the fact that I really enjoyed the guys hanging out together, and it was neat to see one of Methos's flashbacks for a change! Neat to see a different view of history than Duncan's, as well, because the Shelleys and Lord Byron are absolutely not the sort of scene that Duncan would have been involved in, but it makes sense for Methos.
ETA: I think one reason why I'm not taking this as hard as I was afraid I was going to is that for me, what Highlander is all about is dealing with stuff, working through trauma, suffering life's slings and arrows, and going on. We've been through some seriously traumatic stuff already (it took me half a season, at least, to get over losing Tessa) and I think one of the big things that's made me love the show so much is that it's all about suffering the worst that life can throw at you and then getting up and going on. So, while I'm sad about Richie, I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes next, because so far the show has been pretty good at dealing with that stuff. For me, this is just another step along the journey.
This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/336754.html with
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I don't know ... the problem with me is that my brain doesn't really work that way. I can do AUs, where the timeline goes off in a different direction, but I can't really deny a canon event without throwing out everything that comes after. I know there are some people in SGA fandom who, say, write stories set in versions of season four and five where everything is the same except Carson and Elizabeth are still around, but I can't read them; I'm too canon-centric -- my brain can't handle it.
On the other hand, I can think of a couple of shows where I've just chosen to entirely refuse to acknowledge the existence of the last season or two (or, say, certain traumatic sequel movies ...). They're not fandoms in which I'm active, but ... we'll see how my brain manages to cope with a Richie-less Season Six. *g*
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Apparently there is - I googled it after posting, and that's why I changed my post. :)
I get that, about being tied to canon. For me, it really depends on the show. Sometimes I go with canon, sometimes I like to have my own head-canon. :) SGA is....complicated, since you mentioned that example. I've run across fics that ignore what happened to Carson and Elizabeth, and yeah, it feels weird. But on the other hand, I do like fics that address that..."fix-it" fics I guess, although not ones that reset everything to how it was before. Don't know if that makes sense. :)
I've just chosen to entirely refuse to acknowledge the existence of the last season or two (or, say, certain traumatic sequel movies ...).
Haha I can't possibly imagine what you're talking about. ;)
But yeah, I've done the same.
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So I guess it really depends on the show for me ... and on what was lost. I mean, having killed off the WHOLE cast except for Duncan at the end of season five, so that season six was all about starting over with new characters -- that would probably have sent me straight into a denial-place. *g* But this, I think, I can deal with. (I was going to wait 'til tomorrow to start watching it, but I've already launched into the next episode. SO HOOKED, CANNOT WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT. *g*)
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S5 bad guy spoiler don't read if you don't know.
Um, it's extremely easy with this death because Arhiman was master of illusion and made people hallucinate. So yeah, while I'm a canon-girl myself, I have enjoyed many Denial fics on this subject without having to stretch my disbelief to the breaking point.
/end
Re: S5 bad guy spoiler don't read if you don't know.
What I've got to know, though, is HOW DID YOU MAKE THE TEXT WHITE. Because the way I used to do it with span-tags doesn't work anymore! How did you do that?
Re: S5 bad guy spoiler don't read if you don't know.
Test (no actual spoilers!): Does it work...?
Which means it won't work on other styles, but at least on the standard lj style?
Re: S5 bad guy spoiler don't read if you don't know.
Re: S5 bad guy spoiler don't read if you don't know.
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Me either, which is why I probably won't watch those particular episodes - as far as I'm concerned, if I didn't see it, it didn't happen and Richie is surfing in the Bahamas...
I can think of a couple of shows where I've just chosen to entirely refuse to acknowledge the existence of the last season or two (or, say, certain traumatic sequel movies ...)
It's extremely common in HL to deny the existence of most of the movies actually, though more through trauma at how bad they are than because of traumatic canon events! I can't remember if you said you'd seen any, but if you plan to you should be aware they are a very mixed bag and to be approached with caution. (Or avoided completely e.g. Highlander II.)
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On the other hand, it's a pleasant idea that I can get a little more HL even after I'm done with the series!
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Heee! That is perfect!
Though I have some fondness for Connor's unScottish accent (to give Christopher Lambert some credit, when he got the role he didn't actually speak English so from that POV it isn't bad) and the fact the titular Scotsman was played by a Frenchman and the Egyptian pretending to be a Spaniard was played by oh so Scottsh Sean Connery.
it's a pleasant idea that I can get a little more HL even after I'm done with the series
Um, yeah. A very, very little that is pleasant! I'm fond of the first film still after loving it as a teenager and HL:3 is entertaining tosh. Endgame has one or two character scenes that don't suck and one rather good fight sequence (between Duncan and a character played by Donnie Yen) but the rest is pretty cringeworthy (and the ending still makes me grind my teeth in fury). And by all accounts The Source is utterly rancid and bears no relation to HL other than character names and actors.
But I now have my DVDs so I have all the series to look forward to instead!
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I'm not sure if the roster is still up, but I actually was an official member of Clan Denial, took the oath and everything! The reaction to this episode is sort of similar to what happened to SGA fandom at the end of season three in that it wound up driving a lot of people away from the show and somewhat dividing the fandom. I have a distinct memory of a conversation that happened on the Richie-L list that happened toward the end of the series regarding the way the fans of different characters reacted to this episode.
Aside from the fandom aspects, I found this to be the tipping point for me, sort of the "Highlander 2" portion of the series, as even though I had swallowed a lot over the course of the series, evil Zoroastrian demons were a little too much for me. (And Duncan's hair! *cries*)
I'm kind of curious about your reactions to the sixth season, as someone new to the series without the baggage and backlash that the fandom had when this all happened on how/if it holds up to the rest of the series.
Also out of curiosity, are you planning on watching the movies?
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I think it makes a big difference that I'm going into it without that load of fannish expectation, without the wank, without already having a lot invested in the fandom. Actually, one reason why I'm going on into season six tonight (rather than waiting a day or two) is because I want to see it before I do too much talking with people about the end of season five (I've now seen the first ep of season six; more on that in a minute). And it makes a difference that HL is the kind of fandom that it is for me -- I'm really in it for the ensemble rather than any one character, and I'm a lot more able to roll with the changes that way. With, say, SGA, where I definitely had one specific favorite character relationship, if either one of those characters had died, it probably would have driven me away from the show. I think this was a lot less true of me in later seasons and after the show's demise -- it got to where I was more into the team and universe in general -- but back in season three, if they'd killed off John or Rodney instead of Carson or Elizabeth? Oh, yeah. I'd have fled too. So it's not that I can't understand it. It's just that HL is not that kind of show for me.
Anyway, season six -- well, I'm only one episode into it so far, so hard to say. :D It feels a little different from the previous seasons, though. It's hard to put my finger on -- the production values are different, for one thing. It's slicker, less quirky and funny. It feels a little more ... generic? Having seen all five of the previous seasons back-to-back, though, the whole tone, look and feel of the show did change over time, so this is really more like the latest in a series of changes than a sudden shift. I do think season six is different, and I can see how it would have felt bad different if you were just coming off a really devastating cliffhanger the previous season, but I've weathered some pretty blah parts of the series, so I'm prepared to soldier on in order to get my fix. *g*
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I think the Byron episode was one of the most depressing in a while -- just the futility of his existence got to me. That's also the episode that's cut off at 26min on netflix so I'm going by memory on how it ends: "His life has becomes one long tragedy." "We all know how those end."
There are many paralels that can be drawn between Duncan killing him and Methos earlier taking Kristen's head, when Duncan couldn't, even though he knew what she was. It's interesting to examine that, even though the reasons are very different.
Although now that you've seen a little of s6 you know that Richie's death doesn't destroy Duncan, it really is a huge game changer in my opinion. I don't think he can ever be as sure of what he thinks is right, or of his own place in the world.
And it must have really hurt Methos to have Duncan, suicidal, ask to be killed by his hand. Ow, show.
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And, yeah, I like what they're doing with Duncan's character in season six -- it's really fascinating, and, again, carries on with the show's theme of growth and change. They could've done it without killing Richie, I think, but having done so adds an extra element to it all ...
And it must have really hurt Methos to have Duncan, suicidal, ask to be killed by his hand. Ow, show.
That scene, that whole scene ... Duncan's utter incoherent devastation, it just broke me.
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Yes, that's a great point!
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...That being said, I didn't get into HL until the summer between s5 and s6, so s6 is the only stuff I ever saw as it aired. Though I was never really active in the fandom anyway, so that didn't make that big a difference...
(also - since you mentioned above that you've already seen the first ep of s6 - it didn't help that I did not care for that ep at all; it's one of my least favorite of the show, and that makes it easy to pretend it was all a bad trip in Duncan's head and Richie was actually fine :P)
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Heh, I'll get into this whenever I get around to making a season six post, but that was EASILY the most anti-climactic Armageddon I've ever seen. For all the buildup with the demon and all the hints about how powerful it was ... WTF. Seriously. Those two eps had some neat Joe and Duncan scenes, and that's pretty much it. Bleh.
The one after 'em (Sins of the Father) was really good, though, despite the lack of other recurring characters. So there's hope yet? *g*
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And yeah, the season premiere was really unsatisfying - I don't really remember it clearly, except that it was nonsense. But that makes it easier to ignore. And there are a few eps in the season that I totally adore...(there's a Fitz ep, for instance ^^)
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Yeah ... the premiere wasn't really anything to write home about, which is particularly sad coming on the heels of some of the really brilliant ensemble episodes of season five. But thus far I'm not finding S6 a significant change from past seasons. It's a little slicker with better production values (maybe the difference is just that it's filmed in the summer and mostly in the daylight for a change XD) but it's definitely still HL.
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Also, they didn't know who they wanted Richie to be. He started out being the teenage comic relief. Once he became immortal and started aging emotionally, although not physically, they tried to show he was becoming more mature with him getting angry with Duncan, the angst with the dark quickening, head hunting, etc. But it really never worked and they felt like they were at the end of the role.
And David wanted to show that sometimes the characters you like do die. They do lose your heads. It's not the series where you go in every week knowing that no matter how suspenseful it gets, the good guy is always going to make it through because, you know, he's one of the main cast.
That said, I hate the idea of the show because I always felt the shows with the magic and supernatural undertones jumped the shark for me. The thing that Highlander was built on was the idea that this race of people existed in our world, that they could be your next door neighbor.
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On the other hand, I like that this is the kind of show where things don't stay static, where good guys die and sometimes do awful things. For once I'm glad I was spoiled about this, since otherwise I think the Richie/Duncan mentorship might have drawn me in a lot harder, and made it a lot more difficult to deal with. It's going to make it hard for a while to watch Richie scenes in earlier episodes, though ...
That said, I hate the idea of the show because I always felt the shows with the magic and supernatural undertones jumped the shark for me. The thing that Highlander was built on was the idea that this race of people existed in our world, that they could be your next door neighbor.
Yeahhhhh .... I'm not overly happy with the demon plot, either. I think I'd actually be more okay with it if they'd done more with the concept. After all, it's not like the show hasn't had magic and supernatural elements in it before, going almost all the way back to the beginning (fortune tellers, ghosts, etc); it's not like it doesn't ask you to swallow a bit of cheesiness along with the awesome (the Quickenings, omfg). But they've never been this overt about it before. I think I'd find it easier to roll with the demon/apocalypse plot if they'd given us something really spectacular, but instead it kinda fizzled at the end.
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but you need to see 6 season. there are will be some interesting stories. ;) anywy you need to see it yourself. )))
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Now we can Fitz talk all we like! :D
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