sholio | Highlander 4x08-4x10

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Highlander 4x08-4x10

4x08 - Reluctant Heroes

Wow - that was one heck of an unexpected twist with the FBI agent.

I love the quiet bits of background interplay in this series -- like Richie bringing the little girls cups of water (or juice, or whatever it was). Just little background details that make it come alive.

Otherwise, not much to say about this ep, except that I feel like even the somewhat "meh" eps this season have been pretty strong -- well-written and well-acted, at least, if not serving up generous helpings of squee each time.

4x09 - The Wrath of Kali

This was an episode with a lot of sticky issues that mainstream TV is not really known for being terribly nuanced about, and given all of that, I didn't think they did a bad job at trying to balance the different sides of the situations they were dealing with. I do wish that they had put the major arguments for repatriation in the mouth of a more sympathetic character, but I didn't get the impression that he was supposed to be de facto wrong, especially given Duncan's choices at the end.

Oh, Duncan. I love him so much. Flashback!Duncan and modern!Duncan both (same guy, I know, but very different in some ways). I don't always agree with him on everything, but I adore his optimism and his sympathy/empathy, his refusal to tolerate injustice, and his desire to do what's right, even when it conflicts with the laws of the land in which he's living or goes against his own self-interest.

And they brought up in canon the thing about Immortals all being foundlings, which is something I've been wondering about for seasons now -- since every one whose past we know about is an orphan or mystery child. Curiouser and curiouser.

4x10 - Chivalry

THE PAINTING SCENE WINS ALL THINGS FOREVER. *heartclutch*

(Methos getting whapped in the face with a paintbrush was actually one of the scenes I'd seen in a vid awhile back. I just didn't know what the context was, or who was on the other end of the paintbrush. Although, when Duncan bought the old house, I had a feeling that I might know where that one fit in. But still. PAINTBRUSH IN FACE. OH DUNCAN. OH METHOS.)

I think I might have already rewatched that scene an unhealthy number of times.

And that was also the point when I figured out why Methos was here, because honestly, up until then I was sure that this was a side trip for him, that he was here for Watchery reasons that had nothing to do with Duncan. But, uh, no -- he came ALL THE WAY FROM PARIS because he was worried about Duncan, didn't he? as;lkjfd;lkjfdspasdlkfhsl;; Actually I'm not entirely sure that makes sense to me in terms of show logic, because I had no idea they'd gotten to know each other that well yet? But whatever. Possibly he just finds the whole thing entertaining.

Is it just my imagination or is the show drawing deliberate parallels between how Duncan relates to Richie and how Methos relates to Duncan? I really do think that Methos sees a younger version of himself in Duncan, just as Duncan kinda sees himself in Richie.

(The only people who know about Methos are Duncan and Joe? What about Amanda, HELLO. Or does she only know him as Adam?)

And the rest of the episode! The fight in the dojo! ("It's called progress." hahahahahaha) And Kristin, all creepy and controlling! I really enjoyed her brand of evil, a rather different sort of evil from what we've seen from most of the villains on the show, but no less twisted and awful. Actually, given the choice between facing someone who just hates you, and someone who couches hate in soul-crushing love, I think I'd rather take the hate. And Methos switching to badass mode! "Who are you?" "A man who was born long before the age of chivalry." ... heeheeheeeeeeee.

And yet, Duncan can beat him in a fair fight, which I rather love. When Methos was first mentioned in the episode "Methos", I was expecting him to be THE MOST BADASS IMMORTAL EVAR, which made me wonder how the heck they were going to make his fights suspenseful if he's that much better than anyone who ever lived. But he's not and I think that's one of the things about him I love most. The only person he's beaten in a swordfight thus far on the show is Kristin, who presumably has not had to face someone on the dueling field very often. He's kind of a middle-class swordsman: quite competent, with lots of experience, but not a virtuoso, and not someone whose greatest skill or interest is fighting.

This SHOW. :D :D :D

Also, while I feel terrible for poor Maria getting almost drowned, having to be rescued by Duncan and Methos -- OH NO, THAT POOR GIRL. Mouth-to-mouth by Duncan, and then getting snuggled back to warmth by Methos? Ummmmm. Kinda makes the almost-drowning seem worth it, I'M JUST SAYING.

I just ... had no idea that Methos was going to be the kind of person he is, you know? I know he's got a dark side, because no Immortal survives for any length of time without being at least a little bit ruthless, not even Duncan. But ... METHOS! (Among other shallow things about him, I rather enjoy his habit of sitting on random things like tables and countertops. Heck, he's 5000 years old, who cares about little social niceties at that point.)

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And they brought up in canon the thing about Immortals all being foundlings, which is something I've been wondering about for seasons now -- since every one whose past we know about is an orphan or mystery child.

You've probably already made the connection, but this is why way back in S1 Duncan was so sure that the guy pretending to be Richie's father....wasn't.

"Who are you?" "A man who was born long before the age of chivalry." ... heeheeheeeeeeee.

Ha, yes, that's a good scene. Duncan can't bring himself to do it, but Methos has no such scruples. ;)

And yeah, the painting scene is awesome. :D

It was interesting because, in four seasons, Duncan hasn't killed any women, has he? At least not directly. I hadn't really thought about that. But it makes so much sense for someone who was born in the era he comes from. (Heh, I don't remember the exact quote, but I loved Methos's comment about following the code of chivalry because it was what was cool when Duncan was a kid. ZING!)

I had completely forgotten about that with Richie from season one! (Which episode was that, do you know? I very vaguely remember it, but they're all blurring together ...)

And, PAINTING SCENE FTW! \o/ I had been dying to see the full version of that clip I'd already glimpsed, and it didn't disappoint. :)

It was interesting because, in four seasons, Duncan hasn't killed any women, has he?

I don't remember for sure...hmmm. Well, didn't he kill that one in S1 that was pretending to be a new immortal? I don't remember that episode that well so I can't say for sure.

Which episode was that, do you know?

I had to look it up (which is how I ran across the information above) - it's Family Tree, episode 1.11.

didn't he kill that one in S1 that was pretending to be a new immortal?

That's "Free Fall". Duncan fought Felicia Martins and won, then spared her life.

Duncan did, however, kill Nefertiri from "Pharaoh's Daughter". But he only fought her because Nefertiri killed an innocent mortal and Marcus Constantine refused to defend himself against her. (Which is kind of similar to what Methos does for Duncan here.)

Oh ok thanks. I couldn't remember what happened to Felicia. And I remembered Nefertiri too but I couldn't remember for sure whether Duncan killed her or whether Marcus did.

"Who are you?" "A man who was born long before the age of chivalry."

One of my favorite lines in the show and definitely the line I think defines Methos best. *g*

It is one of his best. Very pithy and very memorable. :D

That is a great scene. *nods*

Oh God, I love Chivalry SO MUCH. Methos is fantastic here. And this: "Pick it up." That sends chills down my spine in all the right ways. ♥

Like I said earlier - that and the paint scene, the contrast between these things, that's where it's at.

It was just a lovely episode, and, yes, a lovely contrast between Methos and, well, Methos. Hee! I love characters who are that complex. The paint scene OWNS MY HEART, but then, I am such a sucker for domesticity with otherwise-undomestic characters.

I'm fond of it myself. :D

The contrasts between Methos and himself are always fabulous. Guy's got layers, and the show loves to play with them. It's what makes him so fascinating, and I expect it's a large part of his fannish appeal - there's endless scope for different takes on the character depending on which aspects of his personality you foreground.

"You live and die by a code of honor that was trendy when you were a kid."

Methos sitting/sprawling on things is one of the joys of the show. *nods seriously* Along with Methos in floppy sweaters and Methos with bare feet (toes! --wait I don't know if that's happened yet. spoilers? XD)

Also Methos with paint on his nose!!

he came ALL THE WAY FROM PARIS because he was worried about Duncan, didn't he? as;lkjfd;lkjfdspasdlkfhsl;; Actually I'm not entirely sure that makes sense to me in terms of show logic, because I had no idea they'd gotten to know each other that well yet? But whatever. Possibly he just finds the whole thing entertaining.

It's things like this that really support a slash reading, I gotta say. Much of what Methos does makes more sense if he pretty much fell in love at first sight with Duncan. --or not first sight, since he knew about him a bit from the Watcher files I suspect, but... --actual even if you don't read it as sexual attraction, I still do think there's an element of, hmm, emotionally falling in love on Methos's part. He sees something in Duncan that I don't think he'd seen in any Immortal in a very long time, enough to draw him out, make him engage with the world again...

Edited 2011-03-26 00:33 (UTC)

Yeahhhhh. I mean, you know me -- I'm a canon gal; I'm always looking for what's there in the text, and trying to define the characters in terms of that. But the slash reading is honestly the PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE here. XD I can definitely come up with a non-slashy reading of it -- basically what you said, and also that he feels sort of responsible for Duncan in the same way that Duncan does for Richie: a younger Immortal who needs guidance to survive his first few ~~hundred~~ years. Maybe he even reminds Methos of someone he cared about two or three thousand years ago. But the text gives us NOTHING to work with! And even Duncan's close friends aren't keeping close enough tabs on him to cross an ocean and a continent to protect him from some random person from his past. And yet, here is Methos, and as far as I can tell he has simply showed up on Duncan's doorstep and MOVED IN WITH HIM after knowing him for a few days (canonically at least) in Paris. WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO THINK HERE?!

Methos with bare feet?! This is the kind of spoiler I can deal with. XD

You haven't seen nothing yet :D Oh the joys these guys brought me all those years ago.

I know I've told you I'm a D/M slasher. But even without the slash subtext it is pretty much accepted in fandom that Methos was intrigued, surprised, interested in Duncan. For instance, we know he lived in Paris for 10 years. Duncan had been in and out of Paris during much of that time. Tessa was French and they had been together a dozen years in The Gathering. However, in all that time Methos made sure Duncan and Adam Pierson never met.

Yet, in the episode Methos, he knew Duncan was coming to his apartment. Joe had called to tell him. And Methos stayed , knowing he would be blowing his cover. The train of thought is that Methos had heard Joe talk of MacLeod and had probably already read his chronicles. And he had to meet the man.

Honestly, slash or just friend, I think Methos was keeping tabs on Duncan, saw Kristen was in town and knew her and Duncan's history. Note how Duncan didn't question the fact that Methos knew either. And he used Kristen as a poorly camouflaged excuse to rush to Seacouver to warn him.

Having now seen about half of the next episode (had to go do other things for a while) I must say Methos is definitely rocking the sweaters. (Also the adorable dorkitude. Hitting on the waitress! Methos, you have managed to get laid in the last 5000 years, right?)

I was also musing further on Duncan and Methos ... you know, even as a couple, I really don't think I see "soulmates" there, more like something like Duncan and Amanda have, where they wander in and out of each other's lives over the course of centuries. It's still not really the way I read the characters, but it kinda works for me in a way that a lot of slash pairings don't.

you know, even as a couple, I really don't think I see "soulmates" there, more like something like Duncan and Amanda have, where they wander in and out of each other's lives over the course of centuries.

I quite agree - I can't see Methos staying that committed for huge lengths of time! Doesn't mean he wouldn't always love Duncan, but not always at the same level...very much like Duncan & Amanda, really.

(Would say more but will wait 'til you get through this season, at least. There's an ep that's maybe my favorite in the show - of the comedy eps, anyway! - which is indirectly related to some of my thoughts...)

As I said, I didn't slash Duncan/Methos while watching the show, and I'm not sure how I feel about it now - Duncan tends to come across as rather straight to me, but Methos is not really "rather" anything, sooo...

(and there is the shallowness factor, of course - what's hotter than Duncan or Methos? Duncan AND Methos!)

Yeah, although the more I watch this episode (Timeless), the less of a slash vibe and the more of a friendship vibe I get -- I just really didn't expect them to become friends this quickly! But I've been completely wrong about EVERYTHING having to do with Methos, so, you know, par for the course ... *g*

And I suppose I'm not really far enough along to be able to discuss character dynamics yet! But, yeah, an on-again-off-again thing very much like Duncan and Amanda have ... that's about all I could see for them. (Though ... we'll see. XD As you know, I'm not much of a slasher at heart; I almost never see it in shows, and whether I'm interested in reading it in fic, well, depends on the characters ... I suspect this will be a slash-reading fandom for me because I've heard there's lots of good Duncan/Methos out there, but, anyway ... back to the show now! :D)

I get more friendship than slash from them too, although I can do a slashy reading if necessary. But I could easily see them as friends-with-benefits.

(Would say more but will wait 'til you get through this season, at least. There's an ep that's maybe my favorite in the show - of the comedy eps, anyway! - which is indirectly related to some of my thoughts...)

Yes, I was playing that scene in my head when the question came up too *g*.

Without giving up spoilers, Duncan is really *straighter* and more dour in general this century. There are many flashback scenes in the past where he isn't so prim and proper and I could believe almost anything about him. This century (well, last century now) was very hard on Duncan.

I LOVE HIS BIG DORKY SWEATERS.

THE SWEATERS ARE MADE OF WIN!

And then there was the sweater:

http://pat-t.livejournal.com/34343.html

friendshipper do not click until you finish season 6. Spoiler alert!

more like something like Duncan and Amanda have, where they wander in and out of each other's lives over the course of centuries

That's pretty much how it works for me too. The whole "we are together now, so we'll live in each other's pockets FOR ALL ETERNITY" thing that's so prevalent in some fic makes me bang my head against the desk.

You've reached one of my most favorite lines "born long before the age of chivalry." Methos is so delightful in his complexity and his willingness to cross lines Duncan won't. You can never predict what he'll do. Or what he has done.

Methos! I love him so much ... he's such a neat character! *runs off to watch more show*

Yeah immortals never know their parents.

On to Methos. Yeah, that paint brush scene..did I not tell you there's house rapairing joy in your future?!?! And you thought I wasn't spoiling you :P

I love that Methos came all that way to worry about nothing but himself....right.

It's strangely intimate, isn't it, that he killed Kristen for Duncan despite not having fought an immortal for 200 years until they've met. Which also explains his fighting technique -- he's obviously good enough, but he's out of practice.

As for him coming to visit...

Did you catch in his intro episode that he has entries on Duncan in his journals? And that he knows virtually all of Duncan's watcher history by heart? He didn't just happen to be in his appartment, he let Duncan find him on purpose. So of course now he's very interested in his continued survival XD

Also, notice how he's gone from mi casa es su casa to su casa es mi casa yet? :D Settling on the couch, beers in Mac's fridge...Duncan opens his house and his heart so easily to friends, and Methos takes full advantage of the fact.

I definitely got that he'd been using the Watcher information to research Duncan, and that he was clearly interested in him. The depth of the interest he's taken in Duncan really surprised me, though, as did the speed of their friendship developing.

Having seen the paintbrush-in-face scene in a vid, I figured that was what you were talking about, actually, though I wasn't sure until I saw it. :) And that's one of the problems I'm having with spoilers, actually, and one of the reasons why I'm trying to crack down on minor spoilers in the comments, because I've seen a number of clips but I don't know context. Sometimes an offhand remark or hint in the comments is enough to make me go "Oh, that's what that clip is going to be!", and I'm trying to avoid having that happen. I'm trying to deliberately forget the clips I've seen, but it only works up to a point. *g* So yes, you did spoil me minorly, but I know you didn't mean to.

Aww shucks I know exactly what you mean -- personally I hate being interrupted in the middle of the show by thinking 'oh that's what that was about!'. So I'll try to be more careful -- but you have NO idea how hard it is XD

I think they meet at a very opportune time for their relationship to build as quickly as it did. In Star-Crossed, Duncan loses a very good friend of his, and when he meets Methos who defies all expectations, who likely gives Duncan a kind of hope for a future, it's hard to imagine him not being interested. I'm sure that he looks at Methos and thinks: "The guy has lived 5000 years and hasn't lost his humanity to all the killing. Then I can do this." The killing is really drawing on every emotional and metal strength MacLeod has just because of the frequency of time he has to deal with, well, shit. Whereas Methos has managed to avoid combat with immortals for literally centuries, MacLeod has been taking heads left and right over the last years, and the cracks are begining to show for him. So in a way, having someone in his life whom he does not need to protect ("Can't fight my battles for me") is exactly what he needs. And it's not ridiculous to suppose that Methos reads him, and knows exactly what he wants and he gives it to him during their first meeting -- someone who's charming, cool, collected and doesn't need protection. Someone not interested in taking MacLeod's head.

I'm not at all surprised, given how Methos has introduced himself, that MacLeod is very interested in having him in his life. And as far as Methos is concerned I think his actions speak for themselves there :D

Heh, I know it's hard! I really do. :D And I'm trying very hard not to be too much of an unreasonable hard-ass about it. I'm just loving this show so much that I don't want to rob myself of ANY of my enjoyment of it by knowing too much about what's coming up! I already know more than I wish I did, thanks to the aforementioned vids. (But it was the vids that made me eventually decide to watch the show, so I can't regret them too much. XD)

Anyway, I really do appreciate people being willing to bear with me and work so hard not to spoil me. Thank you! :)

And that explanation for the speed of Duncan and Methos's friendship makes so much sense to me! I hadn't really thought about the fact that Duncan, at this point, has pretty much lost all of his close Immortal friends ... except for Amanda, but she's, well, Amanda, and I think she's probably always going to be at least a little bit in the "must protect" category for him. But the people that he could lean on and not have to worry about saving, like Fitz or Darius, are all gone. So, yeah -- this makes lots of sense to me, as does the point about Methos being kind of a ... role model, of sorts, for Duncan, which is something he doesn't really have in his life aside from Connor. After what was presumably a very quiet 12 years with Tessa, the last few years have been a nonstop cascade of killing and loss for him; he's definitely at a rough point in his life.

And since I don't know enough about Methos yet to be able to figure out how genuine or calculated he was being in his early scenes with Duncan, I'll just need to wait 'til I see more eps to discuss that part. :D

I agree that Amanda will always be in the "to be protected" category for him. (Unless he manages to outgrow chivalry at some point. *g*)

And since I don't know enough about Methos yet to be able to figure out how genuine or calculated he was being in his early scenes with Duncan, I'll just need to wait 'til I see more eps to discuss that part. :D

Random aside, not just about Methos but other characters with similar personalities as well: "Genuine" and "calculated" aren't necessarily contradictions. (I'm looking forward to your take on those early scenes once you're through with the rest of the show. Should be interesting!)

Yes! That's exactly it for Duncan and his reaction to Methos - you sum that up perfectly.

*lol* the swordfight in chivalry hits so many of my buttons, I can't even *points to icon* :D

Just a point to think about:
Who says that Duncan beat Methos "fairly"? Maybe Methos let him win?

Absolutely! Why would Methos let Duncan see his fighting style or let Duncan feel Methos can beat him? Another subject to come back to once

friendshipper has time to see all the series and knows much more about Methos.

I know. Wasn't trying to be spoilery, just giving food for thought!

There are a lot of points to come back to :D

Me too! I'm having to be so careful and remember where she is in the series. So much more to come that will change, enhance and clarify some of these questions. And more questions! So much fun.

*lol* Indeed.

And suddenly all the old fen are meeting here and we're having a blast!

Thank you, [info]friendshipper!

Hi! *waves* I just wanted to let you know how much I'm enjoying your reaction posts. I discovered them (and also your fic... LEMMINGS ZOMG) after I burned through the Methos episodes in, like, three days, and now I'm reading along with you as I watch the show from the beginning, so it's really the best of both worlds - watching a new show with someone and at the same time gleefully anticipating their reactions to future events.

Anyway, I also wanted to comment on your reaction to Methos. Like you, I only knew about him through fandom osmosis (since way back in Smallville days), and Adam Pierson was such a pleasant departure from the picture of an all powerful, godlike Immortal I had in my head. This show would not have been nearly as much fun if that had been the case. Also, Duncan. I had no expectations where he was concerned, but, just... wow. (And Amanda, and Joe, and Tessa, and Richie, and Darius, and so many others.)

Also, I too did a double take when he left out Amanda's name on the people who know him, cause I was watching for that all through my rewatch of Finale, and Duncan clearly says, "Good night, Methos," at the end, with Amanda right there. But, oh well. Maybe he just had a memory lapse?

Anyway, tl;dr, your recaps are still entertaining people three years later, and this show is just too awesome :D

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Highlander 4x08-4x10

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