sholio | Moar Highlander (now up to 3x12, "They Also Serve")

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tv:highlander

Moar Highlander (now up to 3x12, "They Also Serve")

Still mainlining the series at an alarming rate, but I figured that 3x12 was a good point to stop and post again, due to the EPIC SQUEE. (Actually I watched it first thing this morning, but it's taken me this long to finish writing this post.)

♥ ♥ ♥ DAWSON ♥ ♥ ♥

This season (and the end of last season) has been wonderful. Dawson and Duncan! Dawson and Duncan and Richie, oh my heart. Dawson and Amanda - the squee-o-meter is off the charts! Duncan still owns my heart, the big softie, but Dawson is giving him a serious run for his money. (There's nobody I don't like, though. I would like to know where the heck Charlie got off to; is there some kind of rule that they can only have so many characters at once or something?)

And canon has been very obligingly answering a lot of my questions about Immortals. I'd wondered if they can recognize specific other Immortals from the "tingle" they get, or if it's just a general sense of "someone's there", and that's been pretty definitively answered, as well as the question of whether they can recognize nascent Immortals before their immortality kicks in (which makes me want to go back and re-watch Duncan's first meeting with Richie all over again). And the episode with the kid Immortal! That was something I'd wondered about, too -- not to mention "adult in a child's body" is a scifi/fantasy idea that I find completely fascinating ... and have explored in some of my own (original) fiction, but I really loved seeing it done here, doubly so because the show was willing to actually go there and have him be evil.

But oh, oh, the characters. *flails* Part of my frustration with last season, I think, was that my big source of love for this show (er, besides the obvious: there can never been too many scenes of hawt guys swordfighting!) is watching the characters interact with each other, and Duncan was so isolated last season. This season, as well as last season's finale, has been giving me plenty of neat character bits, and those are ALWAYS going to be my favorite thing!

It does crack me up that Joe's bar seems to be the only place to eat or get a drink in town. It cracks me up still further that it's basically a cover for Watcher activities. Did I mention that I really adored 3x12 a LOT?

All the character relationships on the show are really neat, though. I love Duncan's mentorship with Richie, and his wary friendship with Dawson. The fact that Richie is now going to Dawson for advice will never stop making me giggle and squee. I even get a major kick out of Duncan and Amanda, though bickering lovers are normally a bulletproof squick of mine. But I think it doesn't strike me that way because it's not really a will-they-or-won't-they kind of bickering; they have a pretty well-established off-and-on "friends with benefits" thing, and they hit my bickering-friends squee buttons a great deal more than my bickering-courtship squick. I also like how their relationship has grown and developed over the last couple of seasons. Amanda is really a good person, deep down -- she was sympathetic to Joe losing Lauren, and she really does care about Duncan. (And she's trying to go straight! Badly!)

Man, the police in their universe suck, though. You'd think that they'd occasionally look into all of these decapitated bodies that are turning up all over the city. To the non-clued-in members of the public, it must look like there's some kind of serial killer running around. But it's not just the masses of headless dead people ... nearly every episode has some kind of crime that the police completely ignore. (Maybe the Watchers occasionally use their connections to help protect the anonymity of the Immortals? Maybe Duncan just spends most of his time hiding bodies.)

I am increasingly starting to wonder if all of Duncan's flashbacks can actually be pieced together into anything resembling a coherent chronology. He gets around a lot. *tries not to think too hard about it* But they do try, with flashbacks referencing other flashbacks, and at least some sense of internal consistency to where he is and what he's doing in any given time period. And somewhat surprisingly for a show of this sort, they've generally avoided having him meet famous people or get involved in pivotal historical events, aside from those that would be sort of inescapable for someone who was in that country at that time. I like!

I'm also becoming more and more impressed with young!Duncan versus modern!Duncan, because there is really a difference between them. Young!Duncan is so much more innocent and less jaded. All those generations of loss and betrayal have taken their toll. Also, his accent -- I'm not sure if he's supposed to have lost it over time or if he taught himself not to speak that way as an intentional choice somewhere along the way, but there's this point somewhere in the middle 1800s when he seems to lose it, and the show is pretty consistent about that.

Another thing I really love is the way the various Immortals' swords suit their personality and fighting style. It's something I've been noticing since the first season, and it's a neat little value-added thing each time he meets a new Immortal: what kind of sword do they have?

In conclusion: I LOVE THIS SHOW A LOT. ♥

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I've been following your squeefest for Highlander, and I'm thinking I may have to go back and rewatch the show. I did watch it was on originally and really loved it, but now I want to rewatch it.

I'm glad you're enjoying the squee! I'm really having fun with the show. :) I missed it when it was on TV, though I do vaguely remember the existence of it, at least, and I've picked up a few details through fannish osmosis (but not a whole lot).

(which makes me want to go back and re-watch Duncan's first meeting with Richie all over again)

You will definitely notice hints in that first episode, especially the conversation between Duncan and Connor. I taped the show from the start and must have watched that first episode a dozen times, so I was definitely suspicious. I was more surprised that they bumped-off Tessa than I was that Richie was Immortal (was not into fandom back then, so, no spoilers).

I'm with you on how wonderful all the interpersonal relationships were on this show. I think that was what kept me watching when all my friends insisted that X-Files (which aired opposite HIghlander) was the better show. I just never got that emotional kick-in-the-pants from X-Files that I did from HIghlander.

If there are clues, then they actually must have planned this, even that far back, which is startling to realize. I'm really very happy at how much thought seems to have gone into the show -- I was expecting it to be much more episodic and less well-planned than it seems to be.

I just never got that emotional kick-in-the-pants from X-Files that I did from HIghlander.

Yeah ... some shows just do it for me, and others don't so much. Highlander definitely seems to be giving me the emotional high that I go for. :)

Hee, your squee is making me wanna go rewatch some HL! Duncan & Joe's friendship was one of my favorite things about the show. As was Duncan's and Amanda's thing - I love the long-term friends-with-benefits thing they have; I rather like bickering couples myself (I blame extensive Han/Leia exposure at an early age) but that's not really Duncan & Amanda's vibe, I think because as you say there's no UST about it. I think of them as friends first and lovers second, but they love each other deeply as friends...(and yeah, Amanda's morals are shaky when it comes to the law, but she's loyal to the end to her friends!)

I think the Watchers might hide bodies...? Umm, I am entirely unsure if that comes up in canon or if that was just our fanon speculation, though (there's quite a lot of the show that I'm fuzzy about that, really ^^;)

Ahahah and our friend who first introduced us to the show used to joke that HL's continuity department was an orangutan with a map and a bunch of pins that say "Duncan was Here" (though really I think it does basically map; he traveled a lot but there were years between his exploits in various places, so he mostly could have managed it even given past transportation limitations?)

THIS SHOW IS SO MUCH FUN. :) I really was not expecting to like it as much as I do; between its age, and the fact that (at least looking at it from the viewpoint of a non-viewer) it didn't have any of the obvious sorts of character relationships that I go for in a fannish way (no teams or siblings or partners) -- so I wasn't expecting to fall for it in a fannish way. But oh man, I really have! I'm looking forward to getting far enough along that I can start watching vids -- I'm not all that interested in fic right now (there's still so much actual SHOW to watch!) but man, I really want vids and I'm forcing myself to behave and not go looking for them ...

our friend who first introduced us to the show used to joke that HL's continuity department was an orangutan with a map and a bunch of pins that say "Duncan was Here"

BWAHAHAHAHA yes. Perfect. But, yeah, even though it sort of gives the impression that the writers were sitting around with a world map and a bunch of darts ("Where should we put Duncan this week?" *fwip*) it does have a surprising amount of consistency.

I love the long-term friends-with-benefits thing they have; I rather like bickering couples myself (I blame extensive Han/Leia exposure at an early age) but that's not really Duncan & Amanda's vibe, I think because as you say there's no UST about it.

*nods* I was kind of braced to dislike it, because I really do have trouble with strung-out UST and bickering couples. And then, instead, I ended up absolutely loving them. Like you said, they're friends first and lovers second, and I happen to really adore that sort of relationship. I love the casualness of it, and how it's not a big hearts-and-flowers romance at all, but I actually *could* see them, as Amanda put it in one episode, "playing house for eighty years" at some point in their long lives (and then getting tired of each other, or having a big fight, and not seeing each other for another eighty years ...). And I am an absolute sucker for rogue-with-a-heart-of-gold characters of whatever gender! One thing that's a little frustrating to me is that characters like Amanda -- lady rogues and femme fatales on TV -- are often portrayed as frigid or capriciously cruel, and I love that Amanda isn't that way; she has that soft little underbelly that makes me go all squishy. *g*

All the character relationships on the show are really neat, though.

The best thing is that they develop and change over time, and aren't static like in so many other shows. I mean, the basic concept of the show would easily lend itself to a far more episodic approach, but I love that they didn't go that way. I'd probably have grown tired with it quickly if they had.

I know! That was actually one of the biggest (pleasant) surprises for me in the show. I was expecting it to be FAR more episodic, far less consistent with the character growth and the consequences of their actions. This show makes me so ridiculously happy.

The funny thing is, I've been rereading a lot of fanfic lately, and sometimes it's as if the fandom lived in a different universe. I never noticed this so much before, but after a certain point, if you judged by the fic you'd expect very different developments from what the show actually gives. Huh.

... isn't that every fandom, though? *g* I got into Harry Potter through the fic, and THAT was a weird experience, let me tell you -- I don't know if you're into HP at all, but the fanon version of the characters (circa book 4, though I expect it's still true) were so astonishingly different from the canon versions that it occasionally gave me mental whiplash trying to adjust my expectations. *g*

It makes me kind of glad that I'm not being influenced by the fandom 'til I'm done with canon, though. That was one thing that was massively frustrating to me about SGA fandom -- the extent to which the fandom and fanon influenced how I saw the show, and not in a good way.

(I am totally going to want to revisit this topic once I'm farther along and we can talk specifics, though!)

Oh yes, but HP was a bit different, in my view, because it was a lot less about the changing character dynamics. Does that make sense?

And DEFINITELY, let's revisit that when we can!

P.S. METHOS IS THE BEST OMG.

Great post. Let me see if I can answer some questions.

It was pretty well establised (although not sure if it was in canon other than the actors also talking about it) that the Watchers cleaned up the bodies. They watched the fights, recorded the action in the chronicles and cleaned up afterward to protect The Secret.

You can thank Adrian for the continuity factor. Right off the bat he knew they would have a problem if they didn't keep up with where Duncan was and when. So he insisted that they fill in a chronological map and stay with it. Therefore, they never had Duncan in a different place at the same time or somewhere impossible such as Japan in the 1800s and 2 days later be in Paris.

Once David Abramowitz came on board the writing also took a turn for the better. He brought a focus to the series and he and Adian worked together to make sure it really gelled. I think F. Braun came in on season 2, and he was very insistent in having the swords and weapons match the immortal's personality - as well as their fighting style.

It was also Adrian's idea to play Duncan the way he did. Younger Duncan has a more pronounced brogue. He was also not as educated. As he got older and traveled more, his accent became more indescript unless he was stressed. He became more educated and better dressed *g*. He also became a better swordsman. There were many times in the past that he only kept his head through dumb luck.

Edited 2011-03-23 20:35 (UTC)

... you know, that makes the Watchers EVEN MORE CREEPY. *g* But on the other hand, it's just about the only way to explain (other than through total handwaving) how all of this could remain as secret as it does. And, heh, there are plenty of shows that don't even TRY to explain how people fail to notice vampires or werewolves or, say, the APOCALYPSE.

That's so awesome that Adrian was that involved in keeping his character consistent and believable! I've been increasingly getting the impression that this was one of those shows where the actors and crew were really invested in making it good -- you can tell, sometimes, when they love what they're doing and are as invested in the story and characters as we are, and when they're kind of going through the motions ...

And I do absolutely love the progression in Duncan. Especially seeing all the seasons together like this, but knowing they were shot over several years, because he jumps all over in history from episode to episode, but Adrian is pretty consistent in how he plays the character in any given time period. (Well, it's somewhat rougher in the beginning, but they were just getting a feel for who the character was at that point.) His accent, the way he acts (especially towards women and people from other cultures) and dresses, the rate at which he acquires skills ... there are times when one of the flashbacks feels a little out of place in terms of either Duncan's character growth or where I thought he was supposed to be at that point in time, but generally, it's far more consistent than I had any idea it was going to be.

Adrian worked very hard to make this show a success. David A tells a great story about a time when they had an earthquake. I think Adrian was in Paris filming and David (all the writers) were in LA. I remember what Adrian was upset about, but won't spoil you here. The main thing is that there was major damage to David's house, water leakage, etc and Adrian called to complain about something in the script he didn't think was true to Duncan's character. And David was like, "are you kidding me?!"

The other thing about the series is that the actors were very good friends off set as well. If they clicked, they clicked. You could feel the chemistry and the real friendship and caring coming through the tv screen and the canon characters. Adrian and Peter clicked right away.

Did you know that Adrian's brother played scenes in the series? He was just a walk on, but was in several episodes. Including Finale which I know you've seen now.

The one actor Adrian really didn't like was David Robb (Kalas). He dissed Adrian's brother and really rubbed Adrian wrong. In the eiffel tower sword fight scene, David Robb (Kalas) made a misstep and caused himself to get hurt. He blamed it on Adrian. Wrong thing to do. Adrian and company watched the dailies and it was clearly *not* Adrian's error.

I suspect that if the writers had not written Kalas out when they did, Adrian would have gotten rid of him. I can't help but wonder if the anti-climatic way they ended the storyline had something to do with that.

And Adrian still talks about David Robb and his dislike for the actor on both the DVD extras and the Blu-Ray extras. He actually calls him an expletive on the Blu-Ray extras.

Note to self: don't diss Adrian's family.

Btw, on the dvd extras (don't remember which season, but I could look) there is a great interview with everyone including Alexandar Vandernoot. Awesome, awesome interview with everyone.

Oh, this is fascinating! I'm totally going to want to revisit this later so that you can tell me what Adrian wanted to change (but not yet, of course!).

I really do love it when actors become that invested in their characters. I think it makes the show much stronger, and so does the offscreen chemistry between the actors, if they genuinely enjoy each other's company. I'd thought that I got that vibe from the way they all interact onscreen, and I'm happy to hear that it's true!

And that's really interesting about Adrian's brother! Do you know which scene(s) in Finale he appeared in? I'd love to go back and try to spot him!

I doubt you will find him since you don't know what you're looking for. But he's in the fb scene with Amanda as a belly dancer when Duncan is rescuing her.

I have a picture (I nabbed just for you) if you can't find him.

I am increasingly starting to wonder if all of Duncan's flashbacks can actually be pieced together into anything resembling a coherent chronology

I do not think they can. This is a matter of some debate. I think the producers did try to make sure he was never supposed to be in two places at once. But once you get done with six seasons of the show, practically every moment of his life is accounted for. The problem then is that, whenever we drop into a flashback, there's the impression that he's lived this life and been with these people for a while. But chronologically...he's almost always just shown up. Which makes it much harder to believe he has such strong ties to whatever community he's supposed to be in.

I think it's one of many things about Highlander that you just have to not think about or you'll drive yourself nuts. (Magic sword pocket says what?)

Not true. One of the things both David A and Adrian are adamant about is that they were very strict about Duncan's timeline and made sure they went by it religiously. That said, it would be interesting to see someone piece it together. I'm pretty sure I've seen a timeline in the past, but without research I can't tell you off the top of my head.

Welllll .... be that as it may, it's my suspicion that there's a certain amount of wobble in the timeline. *g* I do love the fact that they put that much care into it -- and I also love how, increasingly, Duncan has motivation for being in the different places he goes: he leaves Europe after Scotland loses the war, all his near-East flashbacks are pretty close together because he's traveling in the area, etc. But even Tolkien apparently muffed the phases of the moon in one of the Lord of the Rings books (er, so I'm told, anyway; I haven't actually plotted it to check ...) and he spent his WHOLE LIFE developing the series. I keep hitting flashbacks that feel, if not directly contradictory of others, then at least a little out of place for where I thought Duncan was in that general time period, in terms of either his geographic location or emotional trajectory, or both.

All in all, though -- given that the show is bouncing around through 400 years of different times and locales, while filming over the course of several years, they're doing incredibly well, with a really impressive level of attention to Duncan's growth as a person during that time. It could very easily have degenerated into a muddled mess of contradictory or at least wildly inconsistent material (Forever Knight comes to mind here), and it hasn't.

Don't click on links until you're finished watching the series as I know you don't want to be spoiled. But I knew some fans had put things together back in the day.

Specific and very nicely done and documented: (Includes some novels. These weren't done by the script writers, but were sanctioned by the show and the author's given permission to publish).

http://elle-nora.tripod.com/id20.html

This timeline also includes Endgame and the novels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacLeod_Timeline:1592-1691

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacLeod_Timeline:1692-1791

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacLeod_Timeline:1792-1891

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacLeod_Timeline:1892-1991

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacLeod_Timeline:1992-Present

Thank you!! :) I'll save this and come back to it when I've seen more of the show.

You're welcome. Btw, did you find Adrian's brother or do you need the picture?

When you're done and look at the timeline, I would love to have a discussion with everyone on where things fit in. Such as places where you feel he was there longer than his time line allows. I still think Duncan and HL is fascinating after all these years.

I haven't had a chance to look yet, so go ahead and give me the picture if you don't mind; thank you. :) And yes, I think I'm going to LOVE discussing this show once I've seen enough of it that I can have those in-depth discussions without spoilers! I'm totally gone for it. :)

You don't know how much fun it is to see a new fan of the show.

Here you go. Now, see if you can catch him in other episodes. He was in several. Btw, Adrian's little baby nephew shows up in a show (just as an extra) later.

I know. Considering they used various script writers although David was in charge, I think they did amazingly well. Not perfect, of course. No one is. Even relating our own lives I think we get dates wrong or events chronilogically incorrect. So for a fictional character they did pretty well.

Yeahhhh, I get what you're saying here. I do think there's a lot more consistency (and especially attention to why he's there) than you typically get in flashback-intensive shows; like I said in the comment above, I keep thinking about Forever Knight, which basically just stuck its hero randomly into whatever historical event the writers thought would be cool (Whee, Spanish Inquisition! Look over here, it's the Russian Revolution! How about Joan of Arc! WTF TITANIC, etc). At least it's obvious that HL put some thought into it. But yeah, I keep hitting flashbacks that feel out of place, or some that imply he lived in a place for 10 or 20 years when timeline-wise it could only have been a few months to a year.

Yes, that is what I mean. They were careful enough not to cross their own timeline, as it were. But the spirit of it is often...hand wavy. Let's face it, Highlander has a lot of hand waviness. And a lot of fans who have done excellent jobs wrangling the world building into something consistent.

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Moar Highlander (now up to 3x12, "They Also Serve")

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