sholio | In search of a new sci-fi show, we started watching Sanctuary

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In search of a new sci-fi show, we started watching Sanctuary

I know there are a number of people on my flist who really like this show, so please take my opinion with, you know, all suitable disclaimers (IMHO, to each their own, and so forth), but as of Sanctuary 1x03, I'm finding it hilariously awful.

The budget is apparently, like, nothing, which really isn't the show's fault, but does lead to lots of gigglefit-inducing moments like Ashley chasing Druitt in a warehouse full of guns with one l'il pistol, or the mooks in the Morrigan episode that looked like bad Halloween costumes and totally had that whole not-at-all-menacing B-movie lurking thing going. (Note to the Cabal: You may be an Ancient Organization of Evil (TM), but ... it's 2008! Battle technology has advanced beyond slow-moving unarmed creatures with no fighting skills! I'M JUST SAYING.)

More annoyingly, the characters are idiots, and the science!fail and shoddy research is on the level of a bad fanfic, such as Will saying that the bubonic plague was last seen in Scotland in 800 AD. (... so the Black Death never made it to Scotland, I guess? FOR GOD'S SAKE LEARN TO USE GOOGLE, WRITERS.) The dialogue often has that cringe-inducing "bad Renfaire" sound as in the worst Stargate episodes, and omfg, if Will was any denser, the man would spontaneously collapse into a black hole. And what is up with Ashley, supposedly their badass fighter, getting taken hostage and having people get the drop on her and just generally lacking the common sense of a mushroom ...?

It's not enough to just tell me that characters are smart and competent! You have to actually SHOW them being smart and competent too! As it is, they basically win their fights because the bad guys and monsters just stand there and let themselves be attacked, a la Old Skool Doctor Who.

Despite, or perhaps because of the general silliness of it, I'm finding it very entertaining anyway. The more overblown and melodramatic the characters get, the less seriously I can take them, and I do enjoy the silly B-movie moments (at times, it's hard to tell if the writers are doing it as a deliberate nod to old monster movies, or if this really is, god help them, the best they can do). And every once in a while there'll be something that genuinely is funny or clever. I can't help liking Henry, and I want to like Amanda's character because, well, it's Amanda (although ... the accent ... *cries*). But mostly, I go back and forth between being entertained by its mockability and annoyed by its implausibility, I suppose.

So ... does the show actually get better later on? Or do you just have to be willing to accept it for the cute-but-very-silly thing that it is? XD

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I think I'll skip forward to the episodes that

penknife and

abyssinia4077 suggested, and see how I like those. I'm totally capable of enjoying poorly written cheese as long as it's engaging cheese (see: just about all of Stargate, the ouevre of Marvel Comics, and so forth) but thus far, for me, Sanctuary is missing whatever that factor is that makes a show fun enough that I'm willing to look past its flaws to enjoy it. Right now, all I see are the flaws, and they are MANY.

Right now, all I see are the flaws, and they are MANY.

Yeah, that was my issue, too. I can't say for sure that you'll enjoy it later, but I was of the same frame of mind as you when I watched S1.

I still have much of S2 and S3 to watch, but what I've seen so far, I'd rank leagues ahead of S1.

(I've actually been fanwanking a lot of the harder-to-believe stuff in the series, like Helen's claim that she removed and froze Ashley's embryo ... in 1880 ... the ONLY thing I can bring myself to believe here is that she simply doesn't want to admit to Will that she had sex with Druitt as recently as 1985 or so, so she came up with this lame story that he believes because he's, well, Will.)

If your suspension of disbelief breaks there, this really may not be the show for you -- you really have to buy into steampunk-y Victorian mad science being possible in the show's universe.

Good to know it's not just me! I sort of feel like a squee-harshing jerk because I know several people on my flist really like this show, but oh my god, it is really not doing it for me so far. I guess I had high expectations because I was seeing squee for it all over the place, and I loved the idea of a genre show with an older female lead, but I sort of wish that someone had told me beforehand that it really is not very good and you have to learn to love it anyway -- going in with high expectations is ... not the thing to do. *g*

OH DEAR. I was afraid of that. *g*

I think that, like I said to

tielan below, this show is simply not hitting my happy buttons (yet!) to the point where I'm willing to handwave away the hard-to-swallow stuff and the lapses in writing and so forth, which is where I was with Stargate and, well, most of the things I fan on, actually. (Someday, I keep thinking, I need to get into a fandom for a show that is actually good. *g*) There's sort of a tipping point where I suddenly find myself falling headlong into love with the characters and the world, and stop caring about everything that doesn't make sense. It's too early to tell if that's going to happen with Sanctuary, but I'll check out the episodes that you and

abyssinia4077 recommended to me, and see if the fun factor can overwhelm the problems I'm having with it thus far.

It occasionally has a good episode, but most of them are exactly like what you've described. In fact, I've found the current season to be the worst so far. The best part of Sanctuary is watching Chris Heyerdahl and Ryan Robbins. Chris gets to be dastardly and Ryan is hilarious.

Ryan Robbins is Henry, right? He's fun! I took to him immediately, in a way I haven't really clicked with the other cast yet.

I'll give some more episodes a try. I guess it helps to not expect it to be great TV, and just enjoy it for the cheesy, low-budget fun of it.

Yeah. Like I said, S1 was filmed REALLY FAST on very little budget (they were literally doing things like editing episode 3 while filming episode 4 while writing episode 5) which made the season extremely rough and uneven, and what you've seen is not very good. I think, of S1, "The Five", "Requiem" and "Revelations" are the most representative of what the show has evolved into (when people are saying that S2 is much better than S1, and S3 is WAY better still, they aren't kidding).

I personally wasn't all that interested in the premise when it started, so while I wished Amanda well, I didn't really start watching. I ended up watching all of S1 in one really quick burst, which I think helped a lot in getting through the rocky bits to enjoy the awesomeness. Now, I can enjoy the bad ones, even the craptasticness that is "Warriors" (OH GOD SO BAD) for the little moments they give me of characters I love. Plus, like you, I'm a "watch in order" kind of person and unfortunately, some episodes that are otherwise bad have some gem of information that's good later, or some tiny awesome character moment. I do think you can watch "The Five" and "Requiem" as is, and then see if you liked them enough to go back and make it through the bad (I mean, c'mon, SG-1 had some serious CLUNKERS the first few seasons too).

I'm glad to hear Henry becomes a main character! I like him! Helen's accent ... see, I'd been fanwanking that it's exactly what you said, that she's lived in the U.S. and Canada for a long time and lost most of the accent. Which makes sense! But then, in the flashback to ye olde London, to my ear her accent sounds just about the same, which makes it much harder to explain away.

Henry does become a main character and he is OMG AWESOME (my favorite characters are definitely Henry, Tesla, and Helen....possibly in that order, depending on the episode - Will I alternately almost-like and want to smack and sometimes I really wish he wasn't the secondary main character). As for the accent, *shrugs* I have a really really really terrible ear for accents, so I can't hear what everyone is complaining about anyway. And the fact that Helen's accent has changed overtime isn't just fanwanking - that explanation is straight from AT's mouth. As for not changing in old London...I don't know. They thought it was too confusing to change things maybe? They were too busy to care?

(I've actually been fanwanking a lot of the harder-to-believe stuff in the series, like Helen's claim that she removed and froze Ashley's embryo ... in 1880 ... the ONLY thing I can bring myself to believe here is that she simply doesn't want to admit to Will that she had sex with Druitt as recently as 1985 or so, so she came up with this lame story that he believes because he's, well, Will.)

Yeah....I...that never really comes up again so it's something I just stick my fingers in my ears and hum really loudly about. I think you're idea of not admitting it to Will though. Because Will has gullible written across his forehead.

OH WELL. It may be that this is simply not the show for me. But I'll give another couple episodes a try.

It's true, it might not be for you. While it does develop more deeper friendships between characters, there isn't the buddy-buddy pair that seems to often draw you to shows. But I will say that what you have seen is far from representative of how good the show is.

(and I can understand your disappointment, because season 3 has been really really awesome so far, so there's been a lot of squee. Jumping into early S1 after seeing people so excited would be a bit of a "WTF are they going on about?")

It's true. But given that it appears Helen's father started the research, using that word, it seems like it's far far from a new term, and language was different in some ways back then, and it's not that weird that they don't change it to me. Habits and all die hard. Plus, I mean, Will is this brand new recruit, is really going to try to change a word the entire network has been using for 150 years?

I never thought Will was remotely abnormal, especially since there are several times where it is pretty strongly implied that he isn't - his "Will vision" and perception are just his training.

We have a series where those that are abnormals are often incarcerated largely to protect “society” and for their own protection.

Are they? From what I can tell from what the show says, abnormals come to the Sanctuary in one of several ways. Some of them come voluntarily seeking Sanctuary from the outside world, some come to learn how to better manage their powers and function within society, and then leave. It seems the only ones who are actively locked up are the ones who are considered dangerous - most of them are more like animals at a zoo than human and are kept both for the safety of the world, and for themselves (from being hunted or attacked by humans). I agree that some of them are "incarcerated" but far from all.

As for the rest...who knows. The structure and innner workings of the Sanctuary network confuse me.

I like stage plays where of course it doesn't actually look like a cruise ship or the middle of a moor or Paris.

Oh, hey, that's an interesting way of looking at it. I don't have an issue with stage productions either, where standing on a tall box equals standing on a cliff, but I've never tried translating that to film/television. After 15 years of Star Trek and Stargate, I'm spoiled enough to expect props to look believable.

But Sholio keeps comparing Sanctuary to Torchwood, which a friend tried to show me and which made me cringe a lot, so I dunno.

I've been kind of getting into the later episodes of the show. But season one? Yeah, it pretty much scared me off. Too much telling of how awesome the characters and world is supposed to be, but completely without the showing. And the cheese. Oh, the cheese! One episode in particular (I won't say which for spoiler reasons, of course... and also because I don't know what episode it was) almost chased me off for good, the cheese was so thick.

But boredom and staying up until the wee hours has coaxed me into giving the new episodes a chance. And though the cheese is still there I have to say there is quite a lot of improvement. I'm still not sucked into it, but it's a fun popcorn show for when I need something to watch and I'm starting to really enjoy the characters.

But that's the thing about shows, isn't it? You can't judge a book by its cover and you can't really judge a show by its first season. There are so many shows where the first season left me "meh" but after struggling through that first season I eventually found myself so sucked in I became almost obsessed with the show. SGA, White Collar, Haven, Dr. Who (both ten and eleven) - I started off indifferent or unsure, now I love them to pieces.

It does remind me of Torchwood a lot! But it might not for you, depending on what made you bounce off Torchwood in the first place. For one thing, Sanctuary seems to be a lot more optimistic; Torchwood tried really hard to be ~edgy~ and ~dark~, which pretty much just ended up making the characters into self-centered, pretentious, unlikable assholes. Sanctuary ... well, there is a sort of weird paternalism to it (see my comment exchange with

jimandblair, above, for more on that) but on the whole, it's definitely a lot more upbeat about human nature and gives you characters to sympathize with.

I need to go back and give White Collar another chance. That's another show where I watched an episode or two, went "Meh, not my thing", and gave up. But it's picked up so much squee on my flist that I want to at least watch enough of it to understand what everyone is talking about!

There haven't been very many shows that really grabbed me in the first episode or two, come to think of it. SGA actually did -- not the premiere, but the two episodes after it hooked me good. But, really, that's an exception; usually it's a slow burn, and I need to start giving more shows a chance and not just giving up after a couple episodes.

I found later seasons better than season 1. But yea, still cheesy. But in a fun - 'it doesn't matter' sort of way. I can watch shows and enjoy them for the entertainment, when I'm not 'fanish' at all about them. Recommendations above are good - any episode with Tesla is wonderful. And yea, they have the steampunky type history and then try to fit in the modern world too... like steampunk grew up into modern. I think they should have left it steampunk

It is an interesting way of looking at it! I love old movies, ones made before the audience had the expectation that everything would be shot on location -- golden age of Hollywood stuff, where the light through a window shade stands in for the cityscape outside. And I love musical theater, where Inspector Javert is on a bridge over a river because he's standing on a small platform. So it doesn't bother me if you can see that there's a black painted wall on the other side of the door characters are walking in, or that the CGI background doesn't quite look real.

Sanctuary is very much the anti-Universe in a lot of ways -- it's about how people with flaws and scars can still try to do the right thing. The characters aren't perfect. Helen can be a bit of a know-it-all with science, for example. And heaven knows John is deeply flawed! But they're likable. They're lovable. After all, these are the same writers who gave us Rodney, who could also be a know it all but we loved him anyhow!

And some of the ideas are quite challenging, and handled in ways that Universe can't seem to for all their talk about how deep they are. Lycanthropy as an analogy for HIV is not a new idea, but the way it's handled is quite deft and to my mind quite realistic, in that it doesn't fall back on platitudes and tropes more suitable to 1985 than now. Addiction, forgiveness, the loss of a child.... Sometimes I'm simply left breathless. (And sometimes, like Sleepers, I'm left laughing my head off.) For an abnormal to refer to themselves and others like them as abnormals is like someone queer referring to themselves and others as queers, and I think frankly that's one association that's very intentional. And yes, there are some episodes that aren't great. But there are others that are honestly some of the best tv I've ever watched. After all, these are the guys who gave us SG-1 episodes like Death Knell and Heroes, and SGA episodes like Common Ground and Letters from Pegasus. They don't hit that level every episode, and sometimes they get mired in poor special effects, but when it works it's breathtaking!

I'm sure you know me as a cranky sort, but I would absolutely advise you to expect crap and then be pleasantly surprised. I checked it out because I'd heard Hewlett was in it (web-only, it turned out), and then Nykl, and I like Tapping. I never liked Will, which is problematic since he's supposed to be the audience identification character. I've grown to love Tapping, Robbins, Heyerdahl, and Young — in some episodes I could swear Tapping and Heyerdahl were somehow caught performing a different show entirely, and that a far better one — but the effects and the rampant incompetence (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/64558.html) (2x03) are painful. They also can't decide if the characters are a powerful, wealthy international organization or three guys with a rental van and the leftover pocket change from their paper route.

I like Tapping's accent (at least modern-day), but if it makes you cry, just wait until you hear her father. ::shudder::

I somehow stuck with it because others seemed to like it, or claim it got better, and I had the time to waste. And every few episodes I'd decide to quit, only to think I might as well finish out the season. (Such as here (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/67984.html) — 2x07 - 2x09.)

I know a lot of folks are saying they love season 3. I thought "Bank Job" was actually well done (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/90252.html) ... but that just reminded me that they are capable of much better than they usually accomplish, and since then I've been even more dissatisfied. They perpetuate Stargate-verse annoyances (http://michelel72.livejournal.com/89008.html), too (3x01, not really spoilery).

I only watch at this point to enjoy the snarkiness of a few of the actors, and to mock, these days. (To myself; I'm trying to cut down on my squee-harshing. But you asked!)

I couldn't stick with it... I just found it really bland. However, I liked the episode where Will had his shirt off. /most helpful comment

White Collar, for me, was an unusual grab because it was an entire season before I got into it. But it wasn't gradual. One day, out of the blue, for no reason I can explain, I just suddenly liked it. I mean really, really liked it. So much so that I up and bought the first season. It was very odd.

Now I find that the same thing is happening to me with Leverage. I've never really been able to get into that show, then started watching it late at night just for something to watch. I continued to be "meh" for a couple of episodes. Then, one day, it went from "watch for fun" to "must watch!"

Haven, same thing.

SGA... actually, it's fanfic's fault I got into that. I needed a sci-fi show for a particular plot, and so went with SGA since it was there. The rest, as they say, is history (the story was Wrong End of a Leash. It's all that story's fault I became obsessed with SGA ;)).

It's weird how some shows just grab you, others grab you over time, and some - no matter how good they are - just can't grab you at all. There are a lot of shows I see my f'list squeeing about that I gave a good try, but could never get sucked in. And then there are the shows I can't get enough of that others are "meh" about. To each their own, as we say, but I find it interesting what "our own" ends up being and how it came to be... if that makes sense.

That really is extra awesome. What a cool guy -- I admired him as Parrish because he took so little and created an interesting and quirky character with it, and now this. Thanks!

I love the heck out of the show, despite and because of its awfulness. I adore Amanda Tapping and would watch her read the phone book, so that's the biggest draw. I'm really intrigued by the mechanics of how they film on that utterly blank stage with green screens up around them -- I don't know how the actors manage that. Henry Foss is just the coolest character so now I watch for him, too, and occasionally ~~Methos!~~ Peter Wingfield is there as John Watson; he's another actor I'm willing to sit through really bad stuff just to watch and listen to, plus Helen's dad is Joe from Highlander (as someone said, his accent is . . . not good, but I still love him).

Anyway, I go in with very low expectations just to see actors I like and wouldn't otherwise get to see. I really respect how hard Tapping works and how she's created this show out of pretty much nothing, and she gives her friends opportunities to work, too. The rest I just handwave, mute, or fastforward through. It works for me!

I love the show, and I can't even bring myself to re-watch the first several episodes. They are just so silly in that they went for "Ooh, look--we are dealing with amazing huge things here!" and I just went, "The fates? Really?" But that sort of thing settles down, and it gets a little steampunk, I guess would be the best description. At least that's how I look at it; all of these characters--the Five, especially--and storylines start pulling together from the past, and all of these classic legends start cropping up. It has the feel of Dinotopia, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea...and once I got into that space I liked it a lot better and found it really fun. Also I could take or leave Will but there are enough characters I like (Tesla! Henry! Kate!) that there's never an episode without someone I'm attached to in it.

plus Helen's dad is Joe from Highlander

... whoa, Jim Byrnes is in this? I fangirl the heck out of him! I think this has made me more intrigued to keep watching than anything else I've heard about the show so far. *g*

Yup -- he plays Gregory Magnus. Although he's mentioned quite a bit, imdb shows him only in two episodes, which is a bummer. But damn, I was so happy to see him! See why I love the show? It's like Amanda finds all these cool actors who should be working but aren't and gives them jobs.

Yeah, I think I'll skip forward and see if later episodes are more appealing to me. It may be that it's just not my kind of show.

Hee, now I'm looking forward to watching more episodes in order to read your complaints. :D For some reason, I am rather fond of reading negative reviews of stuff I didn't like much anyway. (Of course, if I do end up liking it, I'll probably change my tune.) Anyway, thanks for the links ... and for the last link (which I did click on), which character did they do that to in the Stargateverse? I'm drawing a blank ...

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In search of a new sci-fi show, we started watching Sanctuary

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