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Avatar: Up to 3x13: The Firebending Masters
So I appear to be stuck on the 'incoherent squeaking' setting. I ... I really have no words for the last few episodes. Um. Yeah. Lost my words.
...!
This needs another big flail-and-screencap post. But my screencap source has failed me! (It only has caps up to 3x10.) And, while I haven't actually tried it, I suspect that taking caps from streaming Netflix episodes would be an exercise in frustration and suckage.
But...!
The awesome! So much awesome! The battle was epic (and we're not even up to the final confrontation yet!). Sokka flailing and then pulling himself together and leading the charge, like the hero we always knew he was! Katara in full waterbending battle awesome mode! Appa in battle armor! Toph's mad earthbending skillz! And Zuko ... Zuko ...
I just don't know where to start with Zuko.
I knew they had to be leading up to some kind of redemption arc with him. I was expecting it last season, actually, and then there was that sudden left turn into OMG WTF ZUKO NOOOOO at the end. But in retrospect, it makes sense for him, both as a character and in terms of his overall arc. He got what he wanted ... everything he wanted: honor, power, a place in his creepy sociopathic family. He had servants at his beck and call. He was the Fire Prince.
... and it wasn't him. It wasn't right. It still left him empty and angry and miserable.
Like I was saying to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
eiliem in a comment earlier today, I think Zuko's motivations are relatively straightforward ... and heartbreaking. It's pretty clear by now that the biggest force driving him (aside from a certain amount of teen angst *g*) is the desire to be loved and accepted. That was what his family never gave him, and it's the ultimate goal of all he's been fighting for. Finding the Avatar wasn't about the Avatar; it was about making his father proud of him and being able to go home. When Azula offered him a chance to go home, at the beginning of season two, he jumped at it. Choosing her side, again, at the end of the season was just the culmination of the same fight he's been fighting with himself for his entire life: that he wants people to love him, he wants to be part of something, and unfortunately, the people around him (aside from Iroh) are damaging, controlling, abusive power junkies. So he's fought his hardest to be one of them, to be part of that.
And now he's seen them for what they truly are, and seen his life in the palace for what it is: an empty mockery, built on the backs of the dead and the enslaved. And he's broken free of the vicious circle of abuse and need that's defined his whole life ...
... sort of. He's gotten away from the abusers, anyway. But he's still the same guy -- the same teenage kid who wants to be loved and accepted and part of a group.
He's just switched to trying to join a different group. XD
Okay, I know I'm being a total fangirl doofus here, but ... "good guy" Zuko is too adorable to bear. XDDDD We sort of got a glimpse of this version of him back at the end of season two -- actually, we have throughout, every now and then, but it was at the end of season two that we really saw Zuko for the first time without his rage and self-hate. But at the time it was just sort of weird and creepy, because he hadn't really worked through his emotions ... he'd just managed to sidestep them for a short time.
But this is, finally, the "real" Zuko, the person Iroh was talking about at the end of season two, that he could have been if he hadn't been poisoned by his family's cruelty. (He smiles! He's helpful and polite!) And yet, he's obviously, recognizably the same person -- it's just that he's worked through all his anger and come out the other side. He's still reserved, socially awkward, quick-tempered, kind of shy, a rock-hard but paper-thin veneer of determined dignity over a pit of low self-esteem ... with a recurring tendency to stick his foot in his mouth repeatedly.
Basically he's still a GIANT DORK, only now with 50% less jerk. XD Or maybe 70-80% less jerk when he's having a good day.
And in the meantime, he's trying to be part of the group! Except he's dorkily bad at it! No, Zuko, just apologizing and asking if you can be part of their gang after you chased them all over the world and nearly got them killed on multiple occasions DOES NOT WORK. Neither does telling them about the assassin you hired to kill them -- you DORK. (Though I loved Appa remembering and liking him -- nice touch! -- and also loved that it was Toph, of all of them, who was the one who was willing to offer him a chance first of all. And got burned for it ... Poor Zuko, he really is pretty lousy at being a good guy. But he was worse at being a bad guy, I guess ...?)
And then, watching from the outside while they're all around the fire, chatting and laughing ... oh, Zuko, still wanting to be part of the gang but not knowing how. At least this time he's picked a much less psychologically harmful group of people to attach himself to -- a group of people who might actually give him the affection and belonging that he craves, if he stays around long enough. (And I am nervous! It's so fragile, this new thing they're developing, and it could so easily crash and burn. I don't want him to lose them before he even gets to know them, really.)
Although, considering how reserved and dignified he is, or tries to be, their rough and snarky version of affection might take some getting used to. And Aang is already showing him a little of that -- the little joke and elbow-jab at the temple door (and Zuko's "oh neat! ... waaaait a minute" reaction when he got the joke). He is integrating himself into their little group, slowly but surely. (And complimenting Aang! And starting to bicker with him, more like friends than enemies ...)
I swear, I did not stop smiling once during the last two episodes. I couldn't help it. The cute factor is THROUGH THE ROOF right now.
A few more random comments on the last few episodes:
- The Western Air Temple. ♥ ♥ ♥ The design is just incredible. I gasped aloud when I saw it and realized what I was looking at: the downward-tapering, tiered buildings, hanging like honey hives, with the pagoda roofs supporting the floors. It's one of the most inspired things I've seen in Western animation ever. OMG, Avatar set designers, MARRY ME.
- The integrated Fire Nation army makes me squee -- most importantly, because of the way it's handled! I love that they don't just pay lip service to it, like a lot of shows and comics do, where there are supposed female and male soldiers, but the only women you see are officers and main characters, not run-of-the-mill grunts and mooks. This was one thing that did bug me about FMA, as much as I loved the world-building and female characters in nearly all other areas -- the only female soldiers you ever saw were the main characters; the background rank and file were, as far as I can remember, entirely male. Or Sora on SGA, the lone female Genii soldier. This might work in either case if it were a deliberate decision on the author's part that was addressed -- there could still be barriers to women in the military, it's just that a bare handful manage to work their way up to officer status. And you can handwave/fanwank/explain it that way, sure. But it's slapping a patch on a hole in the world-building, because ground troops and background mooks are, by default, male.
Avatar doesn't do this. There are female prison guards and combat troops and cavalry, which would be wonderful to see all by itself. But it's also the only nation that has women in its military. The Earth Nation doesn't, and it was an actual plot point with the Water Tribe. So it's not just that they're throwing in random gender equality -- not that I'd really complain about that, I think, but it's obviously something that they thought about, and planned in terms of how it would work with the society.
- Oh! Iroh! The "Dragon of the West" nickname explained, and keeping the secret of the dragons all these years, and breaking out of prison all by himself WITHOUT FIREBENDING (at least I assume he did it during the eclipse?). Never stop being awesome, Iroh.
I really, really love this show so much.
...!
This needs another big flail-and-screencap post. But my screencap source has failed me! (It only has caps up to 3x10.) And, while I haven't actually tried it, I suspect that taking caps from streaming Netflix episodes would be an exercise in frustration and suckage.
But...!
The awesome! So much awesome! The battle was epic (and we're not even up to the final confrontation yet!). Sokka flailing and then pulling himself together and leading the charge, like the hero we always knew he was! Katara in full waterbending battle awesome mode! Appa in battle armor! Toph's mad earthbending skillz! And Zuko ... Zuko ...
I just don't know where to start with Zuko.
I knew they had to be leading up to some kind of redemption arc with him. I was expecting it last season, actually, and then there was that sudden left turn into OMG WTF ZUKO NOOOOO at the end. But in retrospect, it makes sense for him, both as a character and in terms of his overall arc. He got what he wanted ... everything he wanted: honor, power, a place in his creepy sociopathic family. He had servants at his beck and call. He was the Fire Prince.
... and it wasn't him. It wasn't right. It still left him empty and angry and miserable.
Like I was saying to
eiliem in a comment earlier today, I think Zuko's motivations are relatively straightforward ... and heartbreaking. It's pretty clear by now that the biggest force driving him (aside from a certain amount of teen angst *g*) is the desire to be loved and accepted. That was what his family never gave him, and it's the ultimate goal of all he's been fighting for. Finding the Avatar wasn't about the Avatar; it was about making his father proud of him and being able to go home. When Azula offered him a chance to go home, at the beginning of season two, he jumped at it. Choosing her side, again, at the end of the season was just the culmination of the same fight he's been fighting with himself for his entire life: that he wants people to love him, he wants to be part of something, and unfortunately, the people around him (aside from Iroh) are damaging, controlling, abusive power junkies. So he's fought his hardest to be one of them, to be part of that.And now he's seen them for what they truly are, and seen his life in the palace for what it is: an empty mockery, built on the backs of the dead and the enslaved. And he's broken free of the vicious circle of abuse and need that's defined his whole life ...
... sort of. He's gotten away from the abusers, anyway. But he's still the same guy -- the same teenage kid who wants to be loved and accepted and part of a group.
He's just switched to trying to join a different group. XD
Okay, I know I'm being a total fangirl doofus here, but ... "good guy" Zuko is too adorable to bear. XDDDD We sort of got a glimpse of this version of him back at the end of season two -- actually, we have throughout, every now and then, but it was at the end of season two that we really saw Zuko for the first time without his rage and self-hate. But at the time it was just sort of weird and creepy, because he hadn't really worked through his emotions ... he'd just managed to sidestep them for a short time.
But this is, finally, the "real" Zuko, the person Iroh was talking about at the end of season two, that he could have been if he hadn't been poisoned by his family's cruelty. (He smiles! He's helpful and polite!) And yet, he's obviously, recognizably the same person -- it's just that he's worked through all his anger and come out the other side. He's still reserved, socially awkward, quick-tempered, kind of shy, a rock-hard but paper-thin veneer of determined dignity over a pit of low self-esteem ... with a recurring tendency to stick his foot in his mouth repeatedly.
Basically he's still a GIANT DORK, only now with 50% less jerk. XD Or maybe 70-80% less jerk when he's having a good day.
And in the meantime, he's trying to be part of the group! Except he's dorkily bad at it! No, Zuko, just apologizing and asking if you can be part of their gang after you chased them all over the world and nearly got them killed on multiple occasions DOES NOT WORK. Neither does telling them about the assassin you hired to kill them -- you DORK. (Though I loved Appa remembering and liking him -- nice touch! -- and also loved that it was Toph, of all of them, who was the one who was willing to offer him a chance first of all. And got burned for it ... Poor Zuko, he really is pretty lousy at being a good guy. But he was worse at being a bad guy, I guess ...?)
And then, watching from the outside while they're all around the fire, chatting and laughing ... oh, Zuko, still wanting to be part of the gang but not knowing how. At least this time he's picked a much less psychologically harmful group of people to attach himself to -- a group of people who might actually give him the affection and belonging that he craves, if he stays around long enough. (And I am nervous! It's so fragile, this new thing they're developing, and it could so easily crash and burn. I don't want him to lose them before he even gets to know them, really.)
Although, considering how reserved and dignified he is, or tries to be, their rough and snarky version of affection might take some getting used to. And Aang is already showing him a little of that -- the little joke and elbow-jab at the temple door (and Zuko's "oh neat! ... waaaait a minute" reaction when he got the joke). He is integrating himself into their little group, slowly but surely. (And complimenting Aang! And starting to bicker with him, more like friends than enemies ...)
I swear, I did not stop smiling once during the last two episodes. I couldn't help it. The cute factor is THROUGH THE ROOF right now.
A few more random comments on the last few episodes:
- The Western Air Temple. ♥ ♥ ♥ The design is just incredible. I gasped aloud when I saw it and realized what I was looking at: the downward-tapering, tiered buildings, hanging like honey hives, with the pagoda roofs supporting the floors. It's one of the most inspired things I've seen in Western animation ever. OMG, Avatar set designers, MARRY ME.
- The integrated Fire Nation army makes me squee -- most importantly, because of the way it's handled! I love that they don't just pay lip service to it, like a lot of shows and comics do, where there are supposed female and male soldiers, but the only women you see are officers and main characters, not run-of-the-mill grunts and mooks. This was one thing that did bug me about FMA, as much as I loved the world-building and female characters in nearly all other areas -- the only female soldiers you ever saw were the main characters; the background rank and file were, as far as I can remember, entirely male. Or Sora on SGA, the lone female Genii soldier. This might work in either case if it were a deliberate decision on the author's part that was addressed -- there could still be barriers to women in the military, it's just that a bare handful manage to work their way up to officer status. And you can handwave/fanwank/explain it that way, sure. But it's slapping a patch on a hole in the world-building, because ground troops and background mooks are, by default, male.
Avatar doesn't do this. There are female prison guards and combat troops and cavalry, which would be wonderful to see all by itself. But it's also the only nation that has women in its military. The Earth Nation doesn't, and it was an actual plot point with the Water Tribe. So it's not just that they're throwing in random gender equality -- not that I'd really complain about that, I think, but it's obviously something that they thought about, and planned in terms of how it would work with the society.
- Oh! Iroh! The "Dragon of the West" nickname explained, and keeping the secret of the dragons all these years, and breaking out of prison all by himself WITHOUT FIREBENDING (at least I assume he did it during the eclipse?). Never stop being awesome, Iroh.
I really, really love this show so much.
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And ... yeah. OH ZUKO. XD Because only Zuko would spend two seasons trying to track/attack/capture the characters, and then show up out of nowhere going "Hi! I'm your friend now! :D?" Poor lost, lonely kid.
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I LOVE Zuzu joining the group! The great "Hey guys, Zuko here," speech, that he practices, realizes is WRONG and then says the exact SAME thing! Bahahhaa!Oh Zuko, you do so suck at...y'know, all social interactions...but really, with the family you have, it's no wonder...^_-
Enjoy the next two, they're some of my favorites...and the ones after that...and then the four part finale of EPIC AWESOMENSS!!!
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The great "Hey guys, Zuko here," speech, that he practices, realizes is WRONG and then says the exact SAME thing! Bahahhaa!Oh Zuko, you do so suck at...y'know, all social interactions...but really, with the family you have, it's no wonder...^_-
*giggles* I KNOW! His utter lack of social clue, and the way that every last neuron in his head shuts down when he's confronted with a social situation, is ... very endearing, actually. XD He is a smart guy -- though you'd never know it by the way he acts
somea lot ofmost of the time -- but he's never learned to handle himself around people that don't either take orders from him, or give him orders. (And, ha. Channeling his inner Iroh and Asula to give himself advice! At least he realized that handling things the Azula way isn't going to help at all.)And at least Team Avatar actually realizes that at least part of Zuko's general weirdness is because of his family! Or Toph does, anyway. Toph understands family problems and how much it can mess you up.
I love this show so much. I keep wanting to drag it out so that I'll
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I love that Toph does understand the family problem (yet another example of how they're really *thinking* about their characters and how this backgrounds would affect how they act...god I love this show!!!)
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*laughs* Yeah, even though character nicknames are not usually my thing, Azula calling him Zuzu never fails to crack me up -- probably because he's such a serious character and tries so hard to act dignified, which is difficult when his sister is using his childhood nickname (and that's probably why she does it!). Actually, I think 90% of what happens to
ZuzuZuko wouldn't be half so funny if he didn't try so hard to be proud and dignified and serene (despite life constantly throwing banana cream pies in his face ... *g*).I think what the writers have realized so wonderfully with Zuko is that it's impossible not to root for an underdog. People laugh at the character who is the butt of the jokes, but they also really want to sympathize with him/her, because we all know what it's like to feel that way. Making the main villain a likable underdog is quite a feat, but they actually managed to do it from the first few episodes!
(yet another example of how they're really *thinking* about their characters and how this backgrounds would affect how they act...god I love this show!!!)
*nods vigorously* I feel like I'm overusing superlatives every time I talk about this show, but they've really done a superb job at juggling all their characters' diverse personalities and backgrounds, and keeping in mind how it would affect their interactions. I'd totally forgotten, for example, about Zuko freeing Appa, until Appa started licking him -- it took me a minute to realize why Appa wasn't being hostile too, but when I did, it was a delightful little "Oh! That makes so much sense!" moment. And Katara refusing to trust Zuko is so much at odds with how she normally acts towards people who need help, but makes perfect sense in light of her history with Zuko and her protectiveness of her friends.
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So in a way, maybe that shows up that the Water and Fire tribes aren't perfect, nor the Fire Nation perfectly unredeemable, which is yet another nicely subtle touch.
That does remind me of one slight quibble, which is their timelines — did Sokka really learn basic swordfighting in two or three days (and make a sword in one)? Did Katara's Water master really get over a lifetime of his sex-segregated worldview enough to teach Katara that quickly? That seemed a little easy to me. Or was that a case of isolated female exceptionalism, that her identity startled him enough that she was "allowed" to fight her way into their man's world? I mean, I didn't really get a sense that the Northern girls would now be accepted. (Ultimately, I figured the compressed timelines were specifically a storytelling convention here.) I dunno — complicated stuff!
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Oh well. This is a show that has so much good in it that I'm more than willing to cut them some slack for playing fast and loose in a few cases. (And it's not like nobody else does it -- trying to reconcile Luke's training on Dagobah with Han & co's travels on the Millennium Falcon in Empire Strikes Back drove me absolutely batty when I was a kid.)
I just got so used to seeing the principals treated ... not as "hey, look, girls can fight too!" but simply "everybody can fight!" (boy or girl, bender or non-bender) ... that I was pleased. I similarly hadn't processed that the Fire Nation is pretty much the same — any given soldier/guard might as easily be female as male, and the women are neither uniformly nicer nor uniformly crueler than the men.
*nods* I absolutely adore the matter-of-fact way that the show handles gender, especially since they also depict a world that still has lingering gender inequalities, so it's clearly a deliberate choice on their part to write the main characters and the fight scenes the way they do.
My husband thinks that the Fire Nation is supposed to be vaguely analogous to North Korea. I don't think it's anywhere near that specific an allegory, but I do love that they don't show progress as being either wholeheartedly good or bad, and they do it in a really subtle way -- it's definitely true that the most technologically advanced nation in their world is pretty repressive and it's overrunning the others with military might, but it also seems to have a level of gender equality that the others don't.
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(And I love that he does the classic "practice his routine in front of nobody" (but a frog) gag, and then, when he actually meets them...he does the exact same routine. "Uh, hi, Zuko here..." AHAHAHAH.)
And it's perfect that it happens after he does betray them - the end of season 2, that hurts so much while watching it (oh man, we started watching the show shortly after season 2 had aired, and the hiatus to season 3 was unusually long, and quite the agonizing wait!) - but it's right that it happened, because Zuko really needed to learn for himself, to understand that what he wanted he would never get from his family (except Iroh of course...)
Like you've been saying all along, Zuko was kicked out of his family for not being evil enough, and it's true - Zuko at his heart really is this impossibly sweet and gentle soul, and he's so prickly because he was forced to be the fire prince, which went so entirely against his nature that it's just left him a mess...
I also love that Aang is so quick to forgive him, that it barely takes an episode. Yes, some of that is time compression, but a lot of it is just their ages. One of the things I really love about Avatar is that the kids truly act like kids. Smart, resourceful kids with incredible responsibilities and the strength and power to live up to them; but children all the same, and it means that certain things they do make sense in a way that wouldn't if they were adults. Katara's idealism is so very much the intense, reckless idealism of a passionate 14 year old girl. Zuko just walking up to his ex-enemies and asking to join the team, Aang joking with the guy who tried to capture or kill him multiple times - it would be a lot less believable if they were older.
(Also love that a lot of the VAs reflect this - it makes sense that Zuko and Azula have adult VAs as those are such difficult roles, but I love that Aang's voice changes over the course of the series because his VA is growing up. And the girl who plays Toph is actually Toph's age, which is amazing!)
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Zuko at his heart really is this impossibly sweet and gentle soul, and he's so prickly because he was forced to be the fire prince, which went so entirely against his nature that it's just left him a mess...
I know! *wibbles* Poor guy ... and, okay, I'm just now realizing that this is why he had such a difficult time with firebending in the beginning! Azula was a natural at firebending (the modern version, anyway) because she has no trouble tapping into that wellspring of anger and hate that drives it. But Zuko didn't have that -- he basically had to pervert and twist his own nature in order to master the art. My god, the poor little kid. And it's not the sort of OTT, locking-kids-in-closets-and-starving-them kind of child abuse that you get in, say, fanfic -- it's all too horribly plausible that his father and maybe even his mother didn't really understand what was being done to him, or what he was doing to himself.
And he was so happy when he discovered that it didn't have to be that way, that firebending could be a creative, positive force as well as a destructive one! I expect he'll find it much easier now. :D
In fact, I wonder how far and deep this sickness of the soul goes in the modern-day Fire Kingdom. I'm wondering now if Souzin's actions and teachings ushered in a new, darker era of firebending -- I mean, it is complicated, and I don't want to downplay the way that political/social inertia combined with a corrupt, power-hungry leadership are shaping the Fire Nation and its empire-building. But I also wonder if firebending had drifted off course a long time ago, or if Souzin gave it a hard push and, in the process, set a standard that would cause generations of future young firebenders to suffer more or less the same fate as Zuko -- sweet kids molded into war machines. Zuko might, indeed, be the leader who can lead his people out of darkness, if he can turn firebending itself around, and get it back in line with the original teachings of the dragons ...
... or maybe that's not where they're going at all. XD But it's where my brain went. (Also, Zuko is *so* getting the "domestic abuse" square on my h/c bingo card!)
And yes, the betrayal is thematically necessary now! I hated that the story went in that direction; I was so disappointed in Zuko. But, yes, he had to experience it for himself, and discover that what he wanted from his family was something they weren't capable of giving. And now he can seek it elsewhere.
One of the things I really love about Avatar is that the kids truly act like kids.
*nods* I have been loving this too, and thinking the very same thing! They're smart and heroic kids, but they also squabble and lie and behave inappropriately and, in general, do all the stupid things that kids do. Like you said, their personalities are very believable for kids in their age bracket. And, yeah, Aang relaxing so quickly, and starting to include Zoku in the joking and playing that the kids share ... it makes sense for an open-hearted 12-year-old to act that way. (And it was so delightful to see!)
Toph's VA is really that age? Really? Wow, she's good! In fact, all the VA's are really good; I enjoy listening to them!
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I know, I love this - because Zuko is in fact an incredibly talented firebender, even if he's not quite at Azula's level, he's close - but he was never taught in such a way that used his strengths. Iroh tried - Iroh has mastery of the old bending ways (and no one would call Iroh weak!) but he wasn't there enough for Zuko when he was wee or impressionable (which isn't Iroh's fault, though he probably blames himself for it anyway...)
And that idea that Souzin might have perverted not just the Fire Nation, but firebending itself, mmm, yes, that does make sense. The people of the Fire Nation in general have been warped, by bending practice and propaganda and everything else. (Though even so, I love that most of the Fire Nation, even the soldiers, aren't really evil, no more than anyone else. It's one of my favorite parts of s3, that you get to see this...it's important for the themes of the show, and, I think, a really good thing to have in a kid's show especially. Avatar isn't particularly moral or preachy, but it has a lot of themes that are really good for kids to be presented with...)
(Also, Zuko is *so* getting the "domestic abuse" square on my h/c bingo card!)
heeee, yes!
Toph's VA is a year younger than Aang's VA - they were both 12 when they started playing their chars. This blows me away; they're both awesome! (and this, too, is why if you go back and watch s1, Aang sounds distinctly younger...) Sokka and Katara's VAs were a bit older, but still both under 20. They got some real talent! And Zuko is Dante Basco, who is quite a bit older, but given the nature of the role I understand why they picked someone with more experience (also I adore his voice, so...!)
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Yes; it just all *fits*, all the bits and pieces that we've gotten of his past (which is not to ignore the other characters, of course, though I do think Zuko's getting the lion's share of character development in season three). It's really fascinating to look back on things that were revealed episodes and episodes ago, and go, "Oh, *that's* what that meant!" (Ah, so this is what it's like to watch a show with good writing! *g*)
And I agree about Iroh. It makes a lot of sense that the dragons' teachings are what enabled Iroh to be as powerful as he is, without having the same problem that Zuko did when he let go of his rage.
I love that most of the Fire Nation, even the soldiers, aren't really evil, no more than anyone else. It's one of my favorite parts of s3, that you get to see this...it's important for the themes of the show, and, I think, a really good thing to have in a kid's show especially. Avatar isn't particularly moral or preachy, but it has a lot of themes that are really good for kids to be presented with...
SO MUCH YES. It does really frustrate me that children's entertainment (in this country, at least) means spoon-feeding our kids simple morality plays, in which there are good people and evil people, and you can recognize the evil people because they're loud and ugly, or come from the wrong group of people. ICK. That's a horrible lesson to teach a child!
I remember how delighted I was to discover more nuanced animation -- the Harmony Gold imports of various anime in the mid-80s (Robotech, Captain Harlock, Galaxy Express and stuff like that). I loved it; I understood on some level that this was what I hadn't been getting from He-Man and its ilk. I'm not really sure if I'd still have such interest in animation and comics if I hadn't been introduced to that kind of cartoon at an impressionable age, as well as comics like Elfquest, and this one "making of" book for Robotech that introduced me to the concept that there were Japanese comics to go with the animation, called manga ... *g*
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All the chars are awesome and I adore them, but I do feel that Zuko has the most development overall - he changes the most, and his story is the most complex and least predictable.
(also, your icon = LOLOLOLOL!)
(Ah, so this is what it's like to watch a show with good writing! *g*)
Oh, I know! Avatar is one of the most solidly written American shows I've ever seen, cartoon or live-action.
(you really do need to see Babylon 5 someday; for all its flaws, and how it's aged compared to modern shows, its plot arc is even more thought-out and developed, mainly because the show is so much longer...)
SO MUCH YES. It does really frustrate me that children's entertainment (in this country, at least) means spoon-feeding our kids simple morality plays, in which there are good people and evil people, and you can recognize the evil people because they're loud and ugly, or come from the wrong group of people. ICK. That's a horrible lesson to teach a child!
I gotta admit, the silly superhero cartoon I've been watching, Ben 10, that's one of the things they did that I really liked - there's one arc about saving the Earth/universe from a monstrous alien race that is trying to destroy all other sentient life - and rather than killing off or otherwise conquering this race, the hero manages to stop them by helping them, and they end up becoming allies. Ben 10 is nowhere near as complex or nuanced as Avatar, but it was a resolution I didn't see coming, and for a kid's cartoon especially I think it's a really good, positive message.
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Isn't it the most LOLarious thing ever? I haven't really allowed myself to go looking for icons yet (spoilers!) but I stumbled across a non-spoilery icon post at
I'll definitely be watching B5 eventually, especially since it's one of those seminal sci-fi shows that is referenced *everywhere*, so I want to see it before I get massively spoiled for it. I did see the first two seasons before I went off to college, but never finished it. My sister (who did watch the whole thing, back when) went through a B5 revival recently, and as I've been trying to pimp her into Avatar, we've made tentative plans to at least start watching/rewatching both series the next time we're visiting each other. (Which may not be for a while, as we live 5000 miles apart, but it's a date ...)
I do feel that Zuko has the most development overall - he changes the most, and his story is the most complex and least predictable.
Yeah; it's actually been really surprising to me how unpredictable Zuko's arc has been, considering that it's easy to predict the overall shape of his role in the story from the beginning (he practically screams "villain who gets redeemed"). But I haven't expected the twists and turns along the way at all, and even in my most optimistic predictions, I never in a million years expected that he'd bond with Aang and his friends to the point of, basically, becoming a fully accepted member of their group.
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I'm leaping in here (limited computer time, finally catching up with lj; etc...) but this is a big reason why A:TLA is so much love for me. I came to it from "Harry Potter" verse, where I'd been pretty deeply hurt by the final message of that series. To stumble into A:TLA after that experience was ... uplifing. If I can be dramatic about it. :) It was so lovely to see a created world and developed story-line that left me happy in the end. Kind of restored my faith in storytelling.
(Your icon is awesome, btw. *g*)
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I think the skeevy good vs. evil trope is a really easy one to fall into. I've seen it in so many movies and tv shows for grownups, too. Which meant I was so impressed when, for example, Aang went looking for a way to defeat the Firelord without killing him, it wasn't easy. That self-defense killing was specifically taken away as an out, and that the other Airbender avatar suggested that sometimes compromising your principles is a price you need to pay as a leader. I remember just boggling that this sort of deep look into the ethics of wartime was being touched on in a kids cartoon.
It makes me excited for the upcoming sequel. :)