SGA: Kindred pt 2...

[sholio]

Um. Not so happy here. About one specific thing in the episode, at least.

Okay, so remember how my huge DO NOT WANT for this season was that I did not want a monster baby for Teyla?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Okay, now that I've got that out of my system...

I totally called the Carson thing! (Edit: Actually, naye called that one, pretty much. I'd been thinking along the same lines, but she's the one who really laid the theory out in the open, so she ought to have credit.) Except I didn't expect the degeneration. Overall, I was happy that we got a lot of Rodney/Carson interaction -- I also liked the Carson/Keller bits and I loved Ronon's overall awkwardness with the whole situation, right up to the hug at the end, and the sad way he laid his head down on Carson's shoulder? That was pretty much my dose of "awwwwwww" for the episode. Awwwwww!

But aside from that little scene at the beginning where they're outside the isolation room, we really didn't get any reaction scenes with the others discussing and digesting the whole situation, and that left the whole thing feeling kind of flat to me. I think in particular what I wanted was *something* with Rodney getting support from his team, or Sheppard, or even Carter, who's done the whole "He's dead! Oh wait! He's back!" thing too many times to count. Presumably, there would have been scenes like that during the slow times in the middle of the episode -- while Carson and Keller are working at the microscopes, for example. But I wanted to see~! There was lots of stuff with Carson, which was nice, but I didn't really get the sort of emotional impact and teaminess that I wanted from the episode. Maybe I just wanted too much ...?

I did appreciate the fact that Rodney, at least, recognized that a Carson clone with all Carson's memories *is* Carson, for all intents and purposes, which is something that they didn't seem willing to acknowledge with the RepliTeam. I liked Rodney's protectiveness, even to the point of pushing Carson out of the way of bullets and covering him in the field. And ohhh, I hurt for Rodney, having to vicariously relive the deaths of Elizabeth and Original!Carson ... and then losing him AGAIN. And Sheppard, losing Teyla, maybe permanently. I think they (and Ronon ... that sad little hug still breaks me) need to go get really drunk together now.

And they got the Athosians back! Well, most of them! (Er, aside from the dead ones and the really *important* one, of course.) That was pretty neat. Once they get back Teyla AND HER BABY, she'll have somewhere to go.

In conclusion, I'm utterly unspoiled for the season finale and hoping to stay that way (haven't even watched the previews, don't have a clue what to expect other than the title) ... and then we'll be done with the season!

EDIT: Okay, now that I've had time to think and digest the episode a little bit, I'm feeling a lot better about most of what bugged me, emotionally. I think the problem *was* that I had certain sorts of scenes I wanted to see, and we didn't see them, and I was irked by that. But I did like what we got! (Well, except for the Teyla thing. NOT GOING THERE.)

Comments

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the ep yet (downloading now), but so far what I've seen around the web is a kind of "meh" reaction.

I wanted to tell you though (I thought you might enjoy this) - did you notice the two little Athosian boys being herded out by a dark haired woman? Those were Joe Flanigan's sons. :)

[sholio]

Eeeek! They're Joe's kids? That is so cute! Must go back and find them now! :D

I was "meh" at first but I'm liking it more now that I've had a little time to reflect on it, so I hope you won't be disappointed.

[blade-girl.livejournal.com]

I saw those kids and remembered thinking, "Oh, that's cute - it's obvious they're not really actors but just 'kids'." Never thought about how they might be Joe's, or one of the crew's.

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

I hope so - we'll see. :)

Yes, Alex Levine has a blog on the SciFi site, and he posted Friday that Joe's two boys were used in that shot. I've seen a couple screencaps - it IS really cute.

[naye]

Yeah - I managed not to cringe too much at the Teyla + Michael scenes, but I was desperately hoping for Kanan to come charging to the rescue or something, because no, no, DO NOT WANT.

Other than that - and I'm even kind of okay with that, since I've been expecting the worst from the beginning - I loved this episode a WHOLE LOT! There were so many sweet little moments, and Rodney with Carson... it was breaking my heart the entire time, and their farewell when they're freezing him... oh. Yes. They totally need to get very, very drunk together. And possibly hug. Huuuuuuuuuugs! There needs to be more hugs! (Ronon is such a good hugger! ♥)

One random thing that I really, really loved is that when Ronon finds the syringe, Rodney asks "Do you think Teyla...?", and John just snaps at them that "No, I don't think so, and you don't think so!" because NO BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN TO MY TEAM STFU I'M NOT HEARING THIS. It-it almost made me laugh, because oh, John! ♥ ♥ ♥ That's just John in a nutshell.

Also, loved John using logic on the overprotective Rodney - well, if you were in Carson's place, wouldn't you do the same for Teyla? And Rodney just can't argue with that. Of course he'd risk his own life for Teyla, he doesn't even pretend differently.

Right now, the main thing that's bugging me? Is why the hell they didn't send more people! If they knew they were going after Michael, to save Teyla, and possibly extract a whole bunch of Athosians... why not bring another team or five?? Why not bring cloaked jumpers? Why not go all out an get the bastard, when they had the chance? Did I miss an in-show explanation, or was it all just written to let Michael get away at the end?

Also - CARSON! *whimper* His best-before date had expired and they froze him, and it's very upsetting to me! And to Rodney. Who is this close to breaking. Meep. Can they please get drunk together now...? I worry about them!

[naye]

did you notice the two little Athosian boys being herded out by a dark haired woman? Those were Joe Flanigan's sons. :)

Oh, that's neat! I didn't know about that! But looking at it now, especially the younger one keeps looking back at John...! Awwwwww~! That's incredibly sweet. ♥ (And it's perfectly in character for little Athosian rescuees to want to get a good look at their fabled hero.)

[sholio]

I think the Teyla thing kind of tainted my enjoyment of the episode -- that, and I kept going through the whole second half, "Okay, someone comfort Rodney already!" Now that I've gotten past that, looking back on it, I'm really liking it more and more all the while. They *did* give us lots of emotional scenes and lots of character interaction, way more than I was expecting. And, oh, Rodney ... he's just changed so much in the last four years, hasn't he? Of course he'd risk his life for Teyla! And he's breaking with everything that's going on with Carson, and he's trying to spend time with him, and protect him ... oh, Rodney!

EDIT: But, hey! They used the stasis pods in a medical emergency! That's done in fanfic all the time, but it never seems to occur to them on the show. So yay for that!

[gnine.livejournal.com]

See, I actually felt relief with the baby thing, I was fearing much WORSE. (like Michael had somehow influenced it or something). But, (and this could change) from what I could tell, all they were saying is the baby would have a particularly strong gift, which, considering very early on they established Teyla's gift as being very strong, and the father also carries the wraith genes, it's kinda a forgone conclusion their kid would have a strong strain of the gift. And if the baby had been born with Kanaan and all still around, without Michael's intervention, it just woulda been a particularly Gifted kid. Nothing more special, no monster baby. It's just that for Michael's very specific purposes that it's a particularly special child. And if they can get him away from Michael, I think he'd continue to grow up pretty much normal (well, as normal as a kid could be with those parents and 'uncles' ^_-)

The one thing that worries me is if they're gonna get Teyla back but Michael will get to keep the child, raise it to be evil, etc. etc, seen it before *yawn*

Err, sorry, got long there, gomen.

On an entirely different note, major wobbie!Rodney for the WIN! Oh god, his look when Carson asks him to call in Elizabeth. Just...wow, Oh RODNEY!

[ladyniko.livejournal.com]

Okay, so remember how my huge DO NOT WANT for this season was that I did not want a monster baby for Teyla?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Seconded!

I haven't watched the promos really either. I just wait for wraithfodder to put up her parodies of the pics that MGM & Skiffy post of the upcoming episode. Then, I laugh my head off because her parodies have usually been a LOT better than what the "boys" at Bridge have come up with! (What I still fail to understand - why, oh why, can't there be any women writers, directors or producers allowed on SG? *rolls eyes* I guess the boys are totally afraid that they'll be outclassed in case they let a woman fill any one of those roles on a full time basis. :-p)

[sholio]

Yeah, see, that's totally where I think they're going with the baby -- Michael's going to take it and fly off with it so he can Wraithify it. (That *had* to be what the stuff he injected was ... the beginning of the Wraithification.) So that's how they're going to "fix" Teyla having to choose between her career and her baby, and it makes me shriek!

*SHRIEKS*

I mean, the show could surprise me -- they could get Teyla + baby back, and everything will be cool ... but I'm really, really thinking not. And they were doing so well! I'm so disappointed.

... but anyway, Woobie!Rodney for the win! I'm liking the episode a lot better now that I'm looking past the Teyla thing to the things I *did* like about it. And, oh, Rodney ... he was breaking my heart all through it. Could his life possibly get worse at this point?

[naye]

I'm glad it's not so bad in retrospect! Like I said, I really enjoyed it, for a lot of the little moments and looks and Carson, and even though I was going nooooooo~ at Michael getting at Teyla, her baby isn't a monster baby yet.

And, oh, RODNEY! I know! His last words to Carson, his manic refusal to say goodbye, his offers of setting Carson up fishing in the highlands... to be honest, the last scene made me cry. Which SGA almost never does, and I feel like a total wimp, but - but - CARSON! And I loved Rodney being the one to come talk to him, and the way he had to break the news about - well, everything. By the way? You're not Carson. And by the way? Carson is actually dead. And, no, you can't speak to Elizabeth, because she's dead. (I was imagining Carson going "...I think I need to see Heightmeyer now", and Rodney's "..." reply, at which Carson would just stare at him, and Rodney would snap "WHAT? It's been a bad year, okay?")

[wneleh.livejournal.com]

Both parts of Kindred have left me kind of "Meh"ing, but in a good way. I've been sucked into the episodes as they've happened, but they haven't left me with anything to ponder, iykwim.

I did like the emphasis on the Rodney/Carson friendship.

I've written off Teyla's baby. Anything they do will be annoying and I'm just going to have to deal.

- Helen

[naye]

EDIT: But, hey! They used the stasis pods in a medical emergency! That's done in fanfic all the time, but it never seems to occur to them on the show. So yay for that!

SG-1 did it with Jack? But it's true - it hasn't been used on Atlantis! They're being very clever. And now they've got yet another really good motivator to find X and make sure generator Y works without any hitch...

[sholio]

Yeah, I really *am* liking the episode more and more, the more I think about it! I think I'm realizing that part of the problem, too, is on a very deep emotional level I've kind of "written off" Carson -- he's almost an OC to me at this point, so I kinda had to get back in touch with the part of me that used to really like him and enjoy his interactions with Rodney and everybody. And now I think I need to go watch some of the scenes again, being a little more alert for emotional nuance. And maybe write a tag where Rodney gets a little love, because ... OH RODNEY.

[gnine.livejournal.com]

So, not positive, but I think the thinking behind the small team was the fear of rather what did happen, Michael would get wind of what was going on and pull out. If they'd come with even a bigger team, he might have pulled out even faster and also killed the Athosians, or something. And if it *wasn't* the right place, a small team might have been able to sneak in and out, no one the wiser, but word of a big team could have reached Michael on one of this other bases and alerted him to how close they were to finding him...yeah, they still shoulda taken at least a *few* more people, but...*shrug*

...Why yes, I can make sorta plausible excuses for tons of weak writing...what can I say, it's a hobby ^_-

[sholio]

See, I don't really want to go there, because male writers can write fantastic women. Some of my favorite female characters are created and written by men. Heck, Joss Whedon is *known* for his female characters. And having female writers isn't helping Supernatural in the slightest.

What they need is more nuanced and attentive writers, more risk-taking writers I suppose. And this is one area where Gero really shines, because he's not afraid to do episodes that are all about personal interaction and "nothing happening", which is really unusual for a sci-fi show. I kinda wish they'd take that mentality and run with it.

[gnine.livejournal.com]

Ohoh oh, totally on board with the you writing Rodney getting a little love tag! Me likes this idea a lot! ^_^

[naye]

Heh, I like that explanation! Will link to it from my own post. :D

[naye]

Could his life possibly get worse at this point?

...I'm thinking that's one of the things you just don't say in the Pegasus galaxy, because it's going to take it as a challenge, and give you a demonstration! Meep. Rodney!

[naye]

That's interesting! I think - I don't remember exactly, but I think I actually watched Sunday with a person who had very little grasp of my spoiler avoidance, and decided to cheer me up by telling me he was going to come back? Or... I know I found out about his return really soon after watching Sunday - possible even before watching it! So I never did the full detach - I put him on hold for a while, waiting for him to come back... so when he did, I could just switch all my feelings for him back on. And I've missed him! And I like him! So it made me very happy to see him again - and to see him be brave and compassionate and determined and Carson, and to see his interactions with protective Rodney... Oh.

Also? Seconding gnine's opinions on writing a happy tag (of sorts) for them! ♥

[roga.livejournal.com]

Go you for calling Carson!

I too was hoping for more of a reaction from Sam, and was proud of Rodney for thinking of Carson as Carson instead of The Clone. I was a bit bothered by how normal Carson seemed - after all, you'd think he'd be a bit more traumatized after two years in captivity, but his own mental state was kind of glossed over.

Teyla's baby - well, that scene was horrifying, basically. I don't know where they're going with it, but I hope the baby doesn't die and doesn't -- well, not much use of hoping for anything, as I can't see too many good outcomes for the baby. Let's just say I hope he actually stays a baby, and doesn't magically/scientifically/AUishly transform into a teenager within five episodes, because we have so been there and bought the snow globe.

Other than that, though - lots of cool scenes, and much yay for Carson! John was awesome too, and Keller, and Ronon, and Rodney was sweet.

I also liked seeing the abandoned world Michael settled in. Looks like they had a pretty advanced, industrial civilization, and it's nice seeing more of those in Pegasus (speaking of last ep's "backwards aliens" race issues...)

I can't believe next week is the season finale! I'd thought there were going to be 24 eps. I have been outside the loop :-(

[sholio]

I just realized that I should have totally given *you* credit for the clone-Carson theory -- I mean, it'd been something I'd been thinking about, but YOU were the one who really laid it out with all the details, so I've edited my post above to give you credit for that. :)

Yeah ... with me, I found out that Carson was leaving in the middle of season 3, so I went through a whole emotionally-pulling-back thing up until "Sunday" actually aired, and by that point I'd kinda managed to detach myself from the character (which was helped along by the "best friend" comment at the end, which -- on a purely irrational level -- *really* rubbed me the wrong way! Rodney's "one of the best friends I've ever had" in this episode -- which, OMG, he actually said to his face! -- is how I thought they SHOULD have phrased it back then.)

Anyway, I kinda separated myself from the character as a defense mechanism, so having him come back and getting back into the mode of emotionally connecting to him again was a lot harder than I was expecting!

[kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com]

Teyla's sonogram was one of the Stargate babies, too (perhaps even Baz;)

I am writing this in my sleep

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(I was imagining Carson going "...I think I need to see Heightmeyer now", and Rodney's "..." reply, at which Carson would just stare at him, and Rodney would snap "WHAT? It's been a bad year, okay?")

XDDDDDD that's so wrong and so right and so funny either way!

[nonniemous.livejournal.com]

/sigh/ I may have to break down and watch this episode. My one question, did this make Mallozzi's "hint" from third season make sense?