sholio | Notes on recent SPN episodes

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Notes on recent SPN episodes

*HEE* to this week's episode, even if the plot did get totally spoiled from these images. (But, really? Kind of worth it.) Absolutely loved the boys' different versions of what had happened, and Bobby -- I have much love for Bobby in general, and he was the perfect straight man to the brothers' antics.

All in all, I love how the show has reverted to the generally lighter, more brother-waffy tone of Season 1; I really did love aspects of the first half of Season 2, but it was starting to drag me down and start to have a cyclic-melodrama feeling to it, so it's been nice to get some happier episodes. Now that I've had a happy-warm-fuzzy break from the angst, I'm ready for more of the demon arc, which I imagine we'll get back to in a few episodes, with the season-finale coming and all. (I've seen no spoilers, nor do I seek them, but you really don't need Sam's psychic powers to figure THAT out.)

At least so far, this show does a wonderful job of balancing the lighter, stand-alone plots within the larger, darker story arc. The last show I've seen that did such a good job with that balance was "Buffy" -- but honestly, I like SPN more; I enjoyed Buffy but was never drawn into it the way so many people seem to have been. Part of that feeling is probably because SPN is new and shiny for me, though, where Buffy was pretty badly tarred by the way I felt about the last couple of seasons.

You know what's kind of bugging me on SPN, though? The slash jokes. Normally, even though I'm not much of a slasher at heart, I really get a kick out of that kind of thing, and I've been seeing quite a bit of it on genre TV lately -- little, tongue-in-cheek acknowledgments that TPTB are aware of the slash fans and don't mind giving them a small nod now and again. Last week's "Why don't you two just make out and get it over with?" on SGA cracked me up. But on SPN ... I don't know, the way they keep getting mistaken for a gay couple is cute, but Bobby's "arguing like a married couple" comment sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Because they're not arguing like a married couple, they're arguing like brothers -- like any brothers anywhere -- and he knows they're brothers. Those were just really strange words to put in the mouth of a down-to-earth, blue-collar guy like Bobby, you know what I mean? It threw me out of the show a little bit, for just a minute, in the exact same way as when you're reading along in a fic and hit something where the author is clearly subverting canon to her own ends.

I know I can't get past the incest thing with SPN. It's not a show I would ever read slash for, just because my mental incest prohibition is so strong. And more than that, the brothers are so perfectly characterized as brothers, with that bickery, tough-guy love that real-life brothers have -- it just makes it extra weird to have the slash thing acknowledged in canon as often as it seems to be. I'm not saying that I expect the show will go down a slash road -- I mean, there's about a dozen reasons why that just wouldn't happen. But it's still a weird feeling, because on any other show I'd say that it would look like TPTB were giving a small, tacit nod to the possibility of slash between the leads. But here, it kind of weirds me out that *they* see it. I'm probably not explaining very well, but ... it's just ... weird.

Anyway -- back to the squee! Gorgeous brother stuff in this week's episode, and last week's was, of course, a total fanfic plot. I need to make myself more SPN icons so I have a wider range to choose from, but I'm lazy.

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Heya! I've been *so* out of things recently. Real Life is doing all sorts of crazy stuff.

I got to the SGA finale, loved it. Still haven't put words together about it.

Been catching on SG-1. How *cool* was "Hostage Taking for Dummies"??? After the hit my faith in Martin Gero took with "Sunday", that latest ep of SG-1 has it back on track.

But... while I do think recent SPN has mostly been AWESOME - ever since they got "The Secret" out of the way and IMHO Dean right back to being his old self. I've got to admit that I found this week's episode a bit lacklustre. I think it was meant to be the equivalent of "Hell House" last season, and I liked that one better. Some aspects of this one (particularly the two guys interpretations of each other) reminded me of an X-Files episode that I've seen and again, was done better. All in all, of all the recent episodes, it's first that I haven't rewatched several times in the first few days since it aired. Just didn't do it for me.

The slash thing in canon?

Well, I found the gay jokes in episodes like "Playthings" and "Bugs" hilarious. *Because* they are only funny because they are *NOT* gay and because the vewry idea makes Dean look so awkward. Our Dean is just the slightest touch homophobic IMHO - not meaning that he wants to beat up gay people or he thinks they are lesser human beings in any way, but in the way that he Dean Winchester DEFINITELY doesn't want to be thought of as gay. He really doesn't. He can joke about it if given some time to prepare, but hit with the insinuation unexpectedly, it throws him every time.

People in those episodes only mistake them for a couple on FIRST IMPRESSION when they haven't been told they are brothers and HAVEN'T SEEN them interact. That's understandable, as far as I'm concerned because if two guys turn up and want to share a room in the modern day and age, it's un-PC to assume they aren't a couple (but also a little short-sighted to assume they must be IMHO) But the fact is that every thing Sam and Dean do after that totally NEGATES the slash-factor. They are just so awkward about it - and they use that awkwardness as ammunition against each other. It's so anti-*genuine*-slash factor, it defies belief that the Wincest fans don't get that (only it doesn't coz there really are none so blind as those who will not see).

To be honest, I can also see why Bobby *would* say they were bickering like a married couple. Since they *are* brothers, saying that they are bickering like brothers carries no weight as an insult. He wanted to slap them upside the head! Get them to pull themsemves together and start acting like a team again. So he uses the married couple references *because* it makes siblings go *Ick! NO!". Pretty much for the same reason they insult each other with things like "bitch" and "girl". To get a reaction, you want to call them something that they are NOT and that they DON'T WANT TO BE THOUGHT TO BE. And Bobby is too cool not to know that.

I'm pretty much indifferent to general slash (heh! is that an oxymoron?) But incest fic (and incest meta which I encountered in SPN yuckity-yuck-yuck-yuck) I loathe for both a) the pure squick of it and b) it indicates a basic narrow-mindedness amongst the sheep of mainstream fandom (and the times I really want to wade in and tell them - but I really haven't got time to be picking fights along with every thing else... or maybe I'm a coward)

Heyyy! Derry's back! *grin*

I got to the SGA finale, loved it. Still haven't put words together about it.

Been catching on SG-1. How *cool* was "Hostage Taking for Dummies"??? After the hit my faith in Martin Gero took with "Sunday", that latest ep of SG-1 has it back on track.

Wasn't the finale cool? And I hadn't even noticed that Gero was one of the writers on "Bad Guys" (which I also loved -- see squeeing below). "Sunday" ... I really don't know how that one went so wrong, on so many levels. It was everything that I *don't* expect from a Gero episode. But we do know that a lot of the episodes are sort of written by committee (like Epiphany apparently was) and I can only assume that that one had a lot of editorial meddling. It's too bad because "Sunday" did have some cool bits -- especially the Sheppard/Ronon conversation about social lives. But the episode as a whole ... it was just very ... well, "wrong" is the best way I can describe it. Didn't feel right.

*ahem* But I was talking about Supernatural a minute ago...

I've got to admit that I found this week's episode a bit lacklustre. I think it was meant to be the equivalent of "Hell House" last season, and I liked that one better. Some aspects of this one (particularly the two guys interpretations of each other) reminded me of an X-Files episode that I've seen and again, was done better.

I guess the thing is, I've seen this particular trope (the different interpretations of the same events) several times on different shows and movies, and it happens to be a narrative device that I really love. So the show just happened to hit my "squee" button on that. Otherwise ... well, I remember

xparrot telling me when I first started watching SPN that the John Shiban episodes make NO sense narratively, so I started playing a little game with myself: based on the intro scene, did Shiban write this episode? And most of the time I can call 'em. *laughs* She's exactly right, because she told me the Shiban episodes have great character interaction and awful plots, and so far that seems to be quite true. This episode was so much fun for me and hit so many of the things I like that I was willing to forgive its plot holes, but boy, did it have 'em.

To be honest, I can also see why Bobby *would* say they were bickering like a married couple. ... To get a reaction, you want to call them something that they are NOT and that they DON'T WANT TO BE THOUGHT TO BE. And Bobby is too cool not to know that.

I like your explanation. *grin* It was the married-couple comment that threw me, because it just didn't sound to me like something Bobby would say. The running joke about being mistaken for a gay couple -- that, I do love (although I do think it'll start getting overdone if they keep doing it), and as you point out, it *is* a plausible mistake to make, especially as the people making it are generally fairly young women. I don't think a guy would jump to that conclusion, because most straight guys ARE, deep down, a little homophobic -- like you said about Dean, it's not that they're running around beating on actual gay people, it's just that it would never in a million years occur to them to think "sexual relationship" when they see two guys together. Which, incidentally, is one thing that drives me up the WALL in some SGA fic, usually happening when slashers are writing gen -- where they have a character who just WOULDN'T DO THIS jumping to the conclusion that (x) and (x) male characters are in a sexual relationship because they spend a lot of time together. Straight guys' "gaydar" does ping on certain things (my husband, for example, once spent a lot of time trying to convince me that my MARRIED boss was gay because "he just sounds gay") but not, I think, on that particular thing.

Anyway, as you've also pointed out, the gay-couple thing is basically funny because it's completely impossible. It's hilariously implausible, and we the viewers, unlike the characters making the mistake, have the insider knowledge to KNOW how off-base it is.

Running out of room here... you know, LJ needs to up its character limits just for us!

Wasn't the finale cool? And I hadn't even noticed that Gero was one of the writers on "Bad Guys" (which I also loved -- see squeeing below). "Sunday" ... I really don't know how that one went so wrong, on so many levels. It was everything that I *don't* expect from a Gero episode.

Oh, yeah. The finale was cool. I really liked "Vengeance" too. I confess that I was a little disappointed that the finale wasn't a continuation of the Michael subplot - but I suppose that's what last year's finale was about and maybe they didn't want to repeat themselves. But yeah, the finale was great on so many levels. I must admit that I liked the way the new doctor was insisting that she was a temp and worried that everyone was comparing her to Carson. Did you ever watch "Due South" coz it reminded me a bit of the episode where they introduced "The New Ray" and the whole police station is treating him as if he's the same person as the old one and Fraser is going around saying "But he's NOT!". LOL!

And okay, I'll admit that I don't generally watch SPN for the plot - although the twists of "Nightshifter" totally blew me away. Ben Edlund just totally rocks! So I don't necessarily get put off by holes of logic in the narrative. I suppose I generally write it off as "something supernatural happened, so that's the way it is" LOL! I think I mainly keep an eye out for the writers whose episodes I particularly like - eg Edlund and the two who wrote "Faith" together (can't tell you their names offhand but I do recognise them in the credits). I do remember you and

xparrot talking about Shiban though. He wrote "Bugs" didn't he? Yep, there were some plot holes in that one, but I did like the way Sam learned a bit about his own family by watching the real estate guy and his son.

It's hilariously implausible, and we the viewers, unlike the characters making the mistake, have the insider knowledge to KNOW how off-base it is.

Yep, that's the basis for the humour. That and the guys' reactions. One thing about "Playthings" that I loved was that after they discussed it and Sam implied it was due to Dean's "butch overcompensating", Dean then went and told the woman that Sam had a huge doll fetish (dressing them up and everything). Sam's awkwardness was as hilarious as Dean's.

you know, LJ needs to up its character limits just for us!

Sure does! LOL!

(deleted comment)

But of course the Wincest-fans are going to take it as justification. They really are just stupid that way.

I like slash between Sam/Dean mostly because it's fucked up and wrong, and most of the slashers for this fandom have their own set of personal reasons for why this pairing works for them. I don't think I'm stupid for seeing the potential. (especially since I have slept with one or two of my cousins at one point or another growing up, and I think my childhood was a lot less fucked up than the Winchesters, okay well maybe not. For me it's not that big of a stretch under the right circumstances)

I think most slashers for Supernatural know the TPTB are never going down that road and I don't see anything but a brotherly relationship between Sam and Dean in the show. (even the bed wrestling was very brotherly, I think anyone that has brothers or sisters has wrestled either on the floor or a bed, though beds are better because rug burn is no fun) I myself loved that scene because it was funny.

I see nothing wrong about being enthusiastic about your favorite pairing in your LJ. I browse a few forums and so far it seems like people know there is slash for Sam and Dean but I don't feel like it's shoved down anyone's throats. Well at least not at Television Without Pity and the CW Forums...I could be wrong about the second.

okay back on topic, I mostly just wanted to ask if you could please not make blanket statements about fans of slash pairings you don't approve of, I'm rather sure your statement didn't apply to most people and I think I know what you meant because I saw all the reactions for the last episode too and sometimes it can be overwhelming, which is probably startling if you feel strongly against the pairing. But saying the fans are stupid for being happy about these tidbits the show is throwing at them. I don't think people are going to be converted to the Wincest because of the few gay jokes thrown in the show or because the two guys were on the same bed together fighting over money.

Most people had their justifications way back in season 1.

You are right. I shouldn't make blanket statements about - well, about anything really. I apologise for that. It's usually done when I've got worked up about something. It's especially wrong of me to clutter someone else's LJ with the fallout of my statements.

I don't beleive that anyone is "converted" to Wincest appreciation by what they see on the show at all. I believe (and this borders on a blanket statement) that people have a pre-exisitng tendency to want to view relationships between characters on TV as sexually-based and fundamentally "see what they want to see". What TPTB put into the show is almost irrelevant. I do see this as a form of "narrow-mindedness" because it's not as if Wincest or any of the other incest pairings will be these people's only slash OTP (another blanket statement but one I find hard to retract until I'm given a counterexample) - rather it will almost always follow a pattern of interpreting canonincally non-romantic-paired male characters as slash OTPs.

But you are absolutely right. I shouldn't rant. It was kinda late when I did so (I think). I'm tossing up whether I should delete the comment or not. Not my LJ, y'see. Give me a while to think about it and maybe I will.

Wait, wait, I haven't even gotten around to commenting on that part yet. I'm working through in order. For the record, I really DON'T mind you going off in my LJ because you know the things I agree about and I like reading your comments. I guess it's totally up to you whether you want to delete it, but I hope you don't. Off to write more.

well for my part I said my piece. I don't think you need to delete your comment. I make blanket statements too when it comes to topics I feel strongly about so I understand.

I think most slash comes from people pulling things out of context in shows, regardless of what fandom it's in. :)

I don't really give it much thought anymore. I just assume if there are two male characters that are moderately attractive or interesting/funny someone will slash them.

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Hey, I know you don't read much SPN fic, but you have GOT to read this!

Re: Hey, I know you don't read much SPN fic, but you have GOT to read this!

Re: Hey, I know you don't read much SPN fic, but you have GOT to read this!