SGA 3x19: Vengeance

[sholio]

I'm feeling my SGA-love again. Also, I've quit locking my episode reactions, and went back & unlocked the most recent ones. Because really, why?

I haven't read any episode reactions for this one yet, and for this one I just might not, because I'm sure that a lot of people aren't going to be able to get past the Carson issue. And yeah, it *is* a strange decision that they're dealing with Carson by simply not mentioning him. It was very nearly blatant in this episode; there were times when they practically had to write the dialogue around that. Again it makes me wonder if there might be behind-the-scenes factors at work here.

But you know what? I'm not going to let it bother me. Deliberate decision. I can see now how they're going to deal with the Carson issue, and like next season's (and this past season's) casting spoilers, I could either stress about it, or just relax and enjoy the squee-factor of my show.

I choose to relax and enjoy.

Because this ... THIS is why I watch this show. Episodes like this one. Excitement and monsters and genuine danger; bickering and banter and "straight out of fanfic" scenes like Ronon trying to teach Rodney to swordfight. (Heeeeee!) Team-ness and pairing the characters up in various combinations and everybody getting to be brave and competent in their own way. (And speaking of competence, or lack thereof, I see that Rodney continues to suck at bandaging his own injuries, judging from the bandage on his face at the end. And notice he didn't complain once about being genuinely hurt? Aww, Rodney.)

Ronon was AWESOME in this one, from the scene in the beginning with Rodney, to actually getting to use his sword (squee!), to the way he stuck to his guns with Sheppard and actually stood up for himself as a person with opinions and not just the big guy who shoots stuff. And he called Sheppard John! Again!

Remember what I said earlier about feeling the lack of danger in some episodes this season? THIS is what I think they should have had all along: the sense of genuine darkness, with the massacre of the townspeople (and nice reference back to the earlier episode, too!) and the acknowledgment of the Atlanteans' role in it. The scene with the bug skittering up Teyla gave me genuine chills -- and I'm not even a person with bug issues! All the running around in the catacombs was exciting and scary. Oh, sure, it was a total Aliens ripoff (and even acknowledged as such) but it was fun as hell. Frankly I could care less if there's any sort of socially redeeming value to episodes like this one. They're shooting monsters in the dark! In tunnels! And bickering while they do it! It's pure B-movie unadulterated glee!

Considering how similar this episode was to last week's, I do think that an awful lot of my dissatisfaction with the show last week was just being unhappy with the show in general and needing reassurance. And I think I'm basically past that. I don't really watch this show to be mentally challenged; I watch it to see pretty boys (and girls) blowing stuff up and making me laugh. Continuity and believability are but minor considerations.

They did basically use one of my fanfic ideas, though. AGAIN. Tazmy and Kodiak will know which one I mean, because they've been beta-ing it. However, I think the canonical stuff about Iratus bugs and human DNA in this episode actually works reasonably well with what I was going to do anyway.

And one more episode left in the season -- yikes!

Comments

[eretria.livejournal.com]

*clings* Finally, someone who steps up against the whole negativity in fandom.

[sholio]

*smile* Well, as I said, it's kind of a deliberate decision on my part. You happened to hit my journal at a time when I was feeling kind of down about the show, but I've gotten over that -- mainly because I just don't WANT to feel that. I can see where other people are coming from, and I feel for them, because I've definitely quite watching other shows for lesser reasons. But SGA is my happy place and I want it to go on being that way. So I'm just going to enjoy the show for what it is, and try not to want it to be more. If there's something I want that I'm just not getting out of the show, I'll just read or write fic for it.

[atlantis-fan.livejournal.com]

IT WAS SO FREAKING AWESOME!!!! :O)

I just finished watching it (was able to find a smaller file so I got it faster)! AWESOME! :O)

On Carson - to be honest I'm almost glad they didn't mention him in this episode because the few times they could have would have ended up making him look really bad. Take the scene where Ronon is telling John that it was a mistake from the begining - he COULD have said Carson was wrong from the begining.

Or take the whole fact that the reason why Micheal knows so much about sicence now is because he took all the knowlage from Carsons brain - at least that's my theory.

So what are the options? Say nothing about Carson or totally trash his character when he isn't there to defend himself? I think they went with the better option.

[sholio]

Hmm, you do have a point about this NOT being an episode that would have showed Carson at his best!

All in all, I think that I was kind of glad that he wasn't mentioned in there. It made it easier to enjoy the episode without thinking too much about that side of things, if you know what I mean. And the episode was a barrel of awesome.

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

LOL, they so did!

But, I will say this, I have one huge nit with this episode and it really did take away from my enjoyment of it.

The amtosphere-- there. Wonderful atmosphere. The dialogue, perfect. Jason delivered, the boy has chops and it was great to see. Michael, I love this character. The actor repeatedly delivers believability in what he is going through.

But, and here's the big downer, these bugs are really nasty pieces of work...and they did some serious tossing and attacking, yet, the team barely had a scratch. At one point, Sheppard was grabbed from behind and thrown (more than once), then you see him being viciously clawed and not even a shredded shirt????

This is where the 'playing it safe' really bites at me. The danger wasn't *there* because they came up against these bugs repeatedly and didn't suffer for it. It's not realistic. It really detracted from the sum total for me.

Also, I had just a petty peeve that it was Teyla strapped down with the bug crawling up because, come on, if that'd been Sheppard, the boy would've been practically leaping out of his skin and freaking out. And that would've been awesome.

But the pacing in this was better than submersion and it wasn't full of plot holes. And you give me an episodes with nasty critters hunting the team and I'm there.

I just really really wished they'd been more realistic and beat the guys/gal up from those bug encounters. It would've made the danger a lot more tangible.

[atlantis-fan.livejournal.com]

This is where the 'playing it safe' really bites at me. The danger wasn't *there* because they came up against these bugs repeatedly and didn't suffer for it. It's not realistic. It really detracted from the sum total for me.

Um... when have they EVER showed realistic injuries on this show?!?!?! And I mean for both Atlantis and SG1??? How many times have the good guys gone through something that would kill anyone else only to live (and heardly be injured) because they ARE the main characters?

*shrug* I have to admit, I think you're expecting a bit to much from this show...

[sholio]

*snort* Yeah, I'm actually very much with you on that. Pretty much every time they got attacked during the episode I'd be all *bounce bounce* and then they'd stand up afterward with barely a scratch and I'd kinda *droop*. And as you point out, it would honestly be more realistic if they HAD gone with a bit more blood and gore. I really thought they'd done in Sheppard at the end when the bug attacks him there -- but no. What were those bugs doing, just batting them around with mittens on?!

Still, there have been so MANY episodes that had so much potential for physical harm to the characters and then they got out of it easily ... I guess it's not something that bothers me that much any more. I appreciate the h/c when we get it, but we really don't get it all that often...

It would have been nice though. And I did notice.

[sholio]

(Had another thought after I finished typing that last one.) I think it's roughly analogous to the medical/scientific realism thing. I can't wait to hear what my sister is going to have to say about this one, because she's a geneticist and pretty much all the episodes that deal with the retrovirus or the Wraith/Iratus connection send her into a screaming fit of frustration.

For me, that's not that big of a deal. I can ignore it and accept that the silly science is necessary to move the plot forward. But for some people that's a real sticking point in their enjoyment of the show.

The h/c thing tends to bother me more because that's what I really *want* out of a show.

[leenys.livejournal.com]

Ronon teaching Rodney to swordfight??? Seriously???

[sholio]

Yeah. It was a very cute scene -- not just the fact that he was doing it at all (though that, too) but he was really trying to pull his punches and not hurt him, Ronon style of course. He was actually being very supportive and patient, a lot moreso than when he's sparring with Sheppard or Teyla. Although I don't think Rodney quite realized that.

[anniehow.livejournal.com]

Fun classic horror b-movie-type-of-episode! Totally with you on this. Loved Ronon. Loved Michael! Very very curious about your fic idea now!

I have to say I'm with Kodiak_bear on the "lack of bruises". When the uber-bug attacked Sheppard you could cleary see it slashing visciously (I had a *oh noes! John* moment) and then Ronon killed it and Sheppard got up and he wasn't even dishlevelled. A little bruising can go a long way to create tension (not that this episode lacked tension, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time) and it does play right into the h/c fangirl button.

[sholio]

Yup, like I said in my answer to Kodiak, I did notice all the h/c potential that wasn't realized. *grin* I'm not going to say WHICH fic of mine, because it's a twist that you're not supposed to see coming (though I've probably let the cat out of the bag now). But I'll probably end up setting it before this episode so as not to deal with a lot of the baggage from this episode in that story.

Very fun episode, coulda been more PAIN, but all in all a winner for me.

[with-apostrophe.livejournal.com]

Ronon was AWESOME in this one, from the scene in the beginning with Rodney, to actually getting to use his sword (squee!), to the way he stuck to his guns with Sheppard and actually stood up for himself as a person with opinions and not just the big guy who shoots stuff. And he called Sheppard John! Again!

YES! YES! YES! That man has such physical presence - and the sword.. I'd been wondering where that had gone... I thought the way he argued with John was vaguely (and I mean vaguely) reminiscent of Daniel/Jack - complete with use of first name. However, Ronon dear - a little less with the silent sneaking away my dear. You'll turn John prematurely grey! They're really getting the hang of writing Ronon now...

I love any scene with him and Rodney in - and WOW! A first - Rodney in the gym.... was anyone else thinking that the martial arts gear was more than a little reminiscent of 'A Dog's Breakfast'? At least John was nice enough to make some sympathetic noises at him when he got whacked in the stomach again - but then John's been there and done that...

I was pleasantly surprised when John held back from hunting down the source of the lifesigns and sided with Rodney and Teyla. It showed that while Ronon can push his buttons (and Ronon is fully aware of that), John's behaviour isn't inherently predictable. That man is such a mystery... And Ronon's little 'told you so' gesture when it turned out the trip back to the Stargate was a waste of time - so very 12-year-old, so very him.

Yeah, the lack of references to Carson were obvious and strange. I was watching the scene between him and Teyla and thinking how that could have worked if it were Carson. But good to see Connor again - and I loved the make-up.

The episode was exciting - with real peril and consequences - good to see Elizabeth feeling the guilt over their meddling. And it opens up so many avenues for the future. Because they don't have the personality of the Goa'uld, it would be easy for the Wraith to get boring, but they've upped the ante with this one! Monsters may not be something I like to read about/watch usually, but that was great.

(Oh and I sung a little chorus of 'here come the red shirts' when Lt Thingybob and pals turned up.)

[sholio]

Oh and I sung a little chorus of 'here come the red shirts' when Lt Thingybob and pals turned up.

Yep ... *laughs* That was definitely a "Oh look! Monster chow!" moment, all right.

When Ronon drew the sword, I just about cheered. It's been SO LONG! And yeah, poor John, his team is going to turn all his pretty spiky dark hair to gray.

I can't believe how much I'm loving the Ronon/Rodney relationship this season. I doubt if it'll ever rival Sheppard/McKay in my head ... but it's rapidly climbing! It's now gotten to the point where I really want to read solo stories with them, and up 'till now, if a story didn't have both Sheppard and McKay "onstage", it was a hard sell for me.

And there is definitely a LOT of story potential here! I have a confession to make about the Wraith ... as an enemy, they've never interested me that much. For one thing, unlike the Goa'uld (who are genuinely creepy to me, as well as having virtually unlimited story potential) there is not much that you can do with the Wraith. They're basically just emotionless killing machines bent on destruction, and their method of destruction -- the feeding thing -- is something that really can't be done to a main character in a reversible way (Sheppard notwithstanding ... but now that they've based an episode around that, they can't really do it again). There just aren't a lot of places you can take the Wraith in a story, IMHO. I think that's why I enjoy the variety of enemies that they have -- the human enemies, the Asurans, and now GIANT MONSTER BUGS!

[alipeeps.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on so much of this. I've also taken the decision to not let the concern for the future of the show get me down and just enjoy it for what it is. I too noticed the way they almost semed to have to deliberately avoid mentioning Carson in this ep, which did seem odd to me, but it is what it is and I'm not one of those folks who feel TPTB are disrespecting Carson's beloved memory by not referencing him... it just seemed a little odd given the context of the ep.

Overall I loved the ep - adored the Aliens homage (cos oh, it SO was! All they needed was to find a small blond girl who'd survived the massacre by living in the air ducts.. *lol*), loved the sense of tension and danger and the team getting to play real-life Doom! My only quibble with that aspect of it is the lack of whump. Now admittedly, I am a whump-whore and so am biased but having said that.. they were going up against these creatures that are supposed to be vicious killers, almost impossible to kill etc etc and they get into physical fights with them on several occasions and yet the only resulting injury is McKay's little scratch? It kinda detracted from the danger element for me a little...

[leenys.livejournal.com]

I love your Shep icon, it's so little-devil-boy looking of him!

Kam :D

[nonniemous.livejournal.com]

My biggest issue with this episode, other than the way they seemed to quite literally write around Carson? (My god, Paul McGillion, who in the HELL did you piss off in the SG or Skiffy hierarchy and how?) I absolutely hate the movie Alien in all of its incarnations, cannot watch "scary creature of the week" shows, and for that reason "B-horror movie sci fi" drives me UP the wall. It's my biggest, biggest gripe about science fiction movies and television. So there was probably no way I would have liked this episode, Carson or no Carson.

They had me, though, they had me for a while. The first fifteen or so minutes were creepy as all get out and I was literally holding my breath. Finding the Toranians was creepy and perfect and ... ugh. I wish they'd stuck with that darker tone throughout the episode.

I love Ronon more and more, and I was just wondering where his sword was. I am NOT sorry they replaced RSF with Jason, nor do I miss Ford, at all. And I loved Ronon pushing John's buttons, yeah, and the byplay between them--and them *letting* him be super-Warrior that escaped from and hunted the Wraith for SEVEN freaking years. That was very well done.

As for the rest, well, when we get together someday for an SGA marathon, I'll watch "Phantoms" or "The Ark" with you. Those I enjoyed, along with a number of other episodes. Actually, I enjoyed "Irristable" quite a bit, too. But I'll make the pizza run during this one. ;-)

Your sister is a geneticist? *sidles up next to you* Does she consult on stories? *g* My middle son wants to be a geneticist as well.

[atlantis-fan.livejournal.com]

I talked about the whole Carson thing in my post - plus a little bit in a comment here - I actually ended up being glad they didn't mention Carson in this episode.

I absolutely hate the movie Alien in all of its incarnations, cannot watch "scary creature of the week" shows, and for that reason "B-horror movie sci fi" drives me UP the wall. It's my biggest, biggest gripe about science fiction movies and television. So there was probably no way I would have liked this episode, Carson or no Carson.

Yeah that would do it wouldn't it? :O) *shrug* I love Alien and also the "scary creature of the week" shows! (I take it The X-Files wouldn't have been something you would have liked either?) But yeah totally understand why wouldn't like this episode. *nods*

And I agree with you on the Ronon love. :O)

[iamrighthere.livejournal.com]

Frankly I could care less if there's any sort of socially redeeming value to episodes like this one. They're shooting monsters in the dark! In tunnels! And bickering while they do it!

I'm just going through all of the stuff in and conncected to your post and making comments while I wait for Sg-1 to freakin' get off the stick and DL before sometime tomorrow. Torrents are slow!

Okay, this is the next-to-last episode of the season. A lot of things have happened this season that, IMO, ought to be building up to the finale. Not only is there the ongoing situation with Michael and the Wraith, but there has been a "major" death (although for some reason I can't remember the dude's name. He was a doctor or something), the Replicators are apparently still out there, things are going to happen to bring in new cast members and change the status of at least one star of the show to recurring.

The finale is supposed to be, shall we say, Replicator-based. I wonder, as I am prone to doing, why the episode at this point in the season is not a lead-in to what will happen next week? If there is no Wraith/Michael deal for the end-of-season cliffie, why bring him up now?

I'm not exactly being critical of the episode, because I do like a good monster yarn every now and again. It's just that this ep felt stuck in there, as if we neede this ep and last week's to remind us that the Wraith are still out there and still a threat. Then, we get slammed with Replicator business. It doesn't follow, especially when late-season episodes the first two seasons built up to the finale and made for a cool ratcheting up of tension.

Just curious, is all.

[sholio]

Well, let's see. Last season, the one we got right before the finale was "Inferno", a really fantastic episode that delivered everything I want from a team ep and had absolutely zippo to do with "Allies". The previous episode to that one, "Michael", was tangentially related, but didn't really become important 'till "No Man's Land". And before that was "Coup", another fun episode that really didn't relate to the finale at all.

Actually, come to think of it, a lot of things are the same as last season, because a lot of fans spent a lot of time fretting about how the show was going to hell in a handbasket and wasn't anywhere near as good as it had been the first season, and expostulating on how much it was going to suck in season 3.

Why worry about things we can't change?

I've loved season 3. It's delivered one gorgeous team-scene after another, and that's really what I watch the show for. I got what I wanted out of this episode. I'm sorry that some people didn't like this episode and haven't liked this season, but I'm really getting tired of feeling as if I have to apologize for having enjoyed it.

[2sexyboys.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen this ep yet, but I just wanted to say, that other than the Carson business, which given certain scenerios I can understand the non mention (though it would have been nice, and yes I liked Carson) I have to say I am still totally in to this show. Have I hated parts? Totally. Have rolled my eyes and cringed, yes, but I did the same with SG1 on so many occassions it wasn't funny, I can cut SGA some slack.

I can say I loved Ronon from day one. He so rocks. I don't miss Ford, sorry Rainbow. I love the cast, like other viewers, some more than others, but I again, I can live with that because I am enjoying what I am watching and I can't change what happens anyway.

Episode stinkers? Oh yeah, but every show has them. As of today, SGA is still one of my fav shows and I even with the added Carter element, which I am not favouring, I will be watching cause I love my show.

[sholio]

*grins at your icon* Gotta love The Hair!

[2sexyboys.livejournal.com]

I still say it should have its own credits LOL

[not-sally.livejournal.com]

OMG yes.

[sholio]

*grin* Thanks!

[sablecain.livejournal.com]

YAY! I just watched the ep and really enjoyed it! Glad to finally find someone else who did too instead of a whole litany of complaints about what it lacked.

Wait, there's only ONE more ep left? Oh my goodness!

[sholio]

Indeed! This was a very fun episode and I can't wait for the upcoming one ... even though it means it'll all be over for another season! (Yikes!)

[tipper-green.livejournal.com]

Totally loved it. God, I LOVE Monsters! Monsters Monsters Monsters Monsters Monsters! BLUE Monsters! Did I mention how much I love Monsters?

The hilarious thing is, part of me kept thinking about Heather F's (flah7's) glorious Monsters epic...Monster. The one with the Alien like creature chasing McKay and Beckett through the air ducts of Atlantis. Monsters RULE!

Okay...I'm also clearly very easy to please. LOL! I was addicted to "Creature Double Feature" on Sunday afternoons as a kid. Godzilla, Mothra, The Creature from the Black Lagoon...all of them. (I'm so not a girl).

I agree that the absence of Beckett references was odd, but, like you, I just skimmed right past it, because the episode was awesome.

I had to laugh a little at the "vent" scene though. The one where it's all rushing white gas, scary monster, and...a Monty Python image popped into my head. Brave Sir Robin's story, where you see him hiding behind his shield in each snapshot where he "nearly" goes up against several fearsome beasties. Rodney would make a perfect Sir Robin...hee hee.

Man, I loved this episode. MONSTERS!

[sholio]

Heeee! It was so much fun!

[sgatazmy.livejournal.com]

The whole time I was watching this episode I couldn't help but think of your fic! But no, you're right, your fic actually fits into this nicely. In fact, I think it might take care of that little issue I had told you about.

I so loved this episode.

[sholio]

This was an awesome episode ...

And now that I've thought about it, as you say, I think it might actually make certain plot points in that story work *better*. I just need to figure out whether I want to set it before or after Vengeance, because that would affect how certain parts are written.

[leesa_perrie]

I love this episode, and it has sparked off plot ideas galore, not that any are probably going to get written (!).

I so, so loved the opening sequence. I just KNEW Ronon was talking to Rodney, I don't know how, but I just KNEW it!! And it was, and, oh, how funny was that scene!! And he was taking it 'easy' on McKay...I mean, you saw in Sunday how he didn't take it easy with Sheppard when playing that 'game'!! It's about time they showed a scene like this - I mean, after all this time in the field and no one has tried to teach Rodney how to defend himself? Oh come on, not going to happen! And of course he's not going to be very good at it!

Is it me, or have Rodney and Ronon really bonded (as friends, I'm so not into slash) this season? I mean, the whole team has too, but I've really noticed it with these two.

And poor Rodney gets hurt...awww...and doesn't complain once! Nice complaint about the singed eyebrows and 'did you use enough dynamite Butch' to John!

Pity about the Taranans (or however it's spelt), but it added to the creepiness of the episode that the people they saved from the volcano die later - due to some extent to Atlantis' experiments on Michael and all that followed.

I could go on and on and on...I'm looking forward to next week's ep when it appears on you tube. But then, I've read a spoiler or two, because I just can't help myself sometimes...!

[sholio]

And he was taking it 'easy' on McKay...I mean, you saw in Sunday how he didn't take it easy with Sheppard when playing that 'game'!!

I think that's what I loved most about that scene -- that we know Ronon doesn't take it easy on people he feels can "take" it, but he WAS holding back on Rodney, and that was just incredibly sweet.

Definitely looking forward to next week!

SGA meets Dr. Who

[emergencyfan.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, it felt more like an older Dr. Who episode than SGA eppy to me, especially near the end.

I'm assuming they hadn't decided on the airing order when they were working on this which is why they just avoided mentioned Carson altogether. That way it wouldn't matter if they aired it before or after "Sunday".

The high point was Ronon giving Rodney lessons. I could have done w/o everything else in that eppy. Too much like SG1 left-overs:

"Have we used the Goa'uld, yet?"
"Check."

"Have we used the replicators, yet?"
"Check."

"How about the super-soldier senario?"
"Che...oops, no!"
"Great, no need to come up with anything remotely original this week boys, let's run that into the ground first!"

Who me? Bitter because Carson's gone? I think SO. Oh wait! Speaking of SG1 left-overs...

"Have we killed off the doctor yet?"
"Nope."
"Great, that's our plot for next week boys! Now all we have to do is figure out a way to get the Ori to Pegasus and we can just sit back, watch soaps, and collect our checks. Life is good."

Yes, very very bitter.

Re: SGA meets Dr. Who

[sholio]

*laughs* But I like Dr. Who! I think I just have a fairly high tolerance for cheese. (I'm sitting here at the moment watching an old episode of MacGyver ... talk about a whole BLOCK of cheese! But fun cheese!)