sholio | SGA 3x19: Vengeance

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episode reactions:sga

SGA 3x19: Vengeance

I'm feeling my SGA-love again. Also, I've quit locking my episode reactions, and went back & unlocked the most recent ones. Because really, why?

I haven't read any episode reactions for this one yet, and for this one I just might not, because I'm sure that a lot of people aren't going to be able to get past the Carson issue. And yeah, it *is* a strange decision that they're dealing with Carson by simply not mentioning him. It was very nearly blatant in this episode; there were times when they practically had to write the dialogue around that. Again it makes me wonder if there might be behind-the-scenes factors at work here.

But you know what? I'm not going to let it bother me. Deliberate decision. I can see now how they're going to deal with the Carson issue, and like next season's (and this past season's) casting spoilers, I could either stress about it, or just relax and enjoy the squee-factor of my show.

I choose to relax and enjoy.

Because this ... THIS is why I watch this show. Episodes like this one. Excitement and monsters and genuine danger; bickering and banter and "straight out of fanfic" scenes like Ronon trying to teach Rodney to swordfight. (Heeeeee!) Team-ness and pairing the characters up in various combinations and everybody getting to be brave and competent in their own way. (And speaking of competence, or lack thereof, I see that Rodney continues to suck at bandaging his own injuries, judging from the bandage on his face at the end. And notice he didn't complain once about being genuinely hurt? Aww, Rodney.)

Ronon was AWESOME in this one, from the scene in the beginning with Rodney, to actually getting to use his sword (squee!), to the way he stuck to his guns with Sheppard and actually stood up for himself as a person with opinions and not just the big guy who shoots stuff. And he called Sheppard John! Again!

Remember what I said earlier about feeling the lack of danger in some episodes this season? THIS is what I think they should have had all along: the sense of genuine darkness, with the massacre of the townspeople (and nice reference back to the earlier episode, too!) and the acknowledgment of the Atlanteans' role in it. The scene with the bug skittering up Teyla gave me genuine chills -- and I'm not even a person with bug issues! All the running around in the catacombs was exciting and scary. Oh, sure, it was a total Aliens ripoff (and even acknowledged as such) but it was fun as hell. Frankly I could care less if there's any sort of socially redeeming value to episodes like this one. They're shooting monsters in the dark! In tunnels! And bickering while they do it! It's pure B-movie unadulterated glee!

Considering how similar this episode was to last week's, I do think that an awful lot of my dissatisfaction with the show last week was just being unhappy with the show in general and needing reassurance. And I think I'm basically past that. I don't really watch this show to be mentally challenged; I watch it to see pretty boys (and girls) blowing stuff up and making me laugh. Continuity and believability are but minor considerations.

They did basically use one of my fanfic ideas, though. AGAIN. Tazmy and Kodiak will know which one I mean, because they've been beta-ing it. However, I think the canonical stuff about Iratus bugs and human DNA in this episode actually works reasonably well with what I was going to do anyway.

And one more episode left in the season -- yikes!

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LOL, they so did!

But, I will say this, I have one huge nit with this episode and it really did take away from my enjoyment of it.

The amtosphere-- there. Wonderful atmosphere. The dialogue, perfect. Jason delivered, the boy has chops and it was great to see. Michael, I love this character. The actor repeatedly delivers believability in what he is going through.

But, and here's the big downer, these bugs are really nasty pieces of work...and they did some serious tossing and attacking, yet, the team barely had a scratch. At one point, Sheppard was grabbed from behind and thrown (more than once), then you see him being viciously clawed and not even a shredded shirt????

This is where the 'playing it safe' really bites at me. The danger wasn't *there* because they came up against these bugs repeatedly and didn't suffer for it. It's not realistic. It really detracted from the sum total for me.

Also, I had just a petty peeve that it was Teyla strapped down with the bug crawling up because, come on, if that'd been Sheppard, the boy would've been practically leaping out of his skin and freaking out. And that would've been awesome.

But the pacing in this was better than submersion and it wasn't full of plot holes. And you give me an episodes with nasty critters hunting the team and I'm there.

I just really really wished they'd been more realistic and beat the guys/gal up from those bug encounters. It would've made the danger a lot more tangible.

This is where the 'playing it safe' really bites at me. The danger wasn't *there* because they came up against these bugs repeatedly and didn't suffer for it. It's not realistic. It really detracted from the sum total for me.

Um... when have they EVER showed realistic injuries on this show?!?!?! And I mean for both Atlantis and SG1??? How many times have the good guys gone through something that would kill anyone else only to live (and heardly be injured) because they ARE the main characters?

*shrug* I have to admit, I think you're expecting a bit to much from this show...

I suppose so. It has felt that way lately.

Okay I'll admit that sometimes it IS a little silly how easily they get through things without injury... but I for me I've always watched to have fun and laugh and all of that so it never really bothers me. *shrug*

Yeah I can see and somewhat understand how it can get annoying and seem unrealistic for others, but for me it's just part of the insanity that is Stargate. There's a ton of other things that I usually end up laughing at while others are complaining. Guess I just watch it differently...

I think where my disappointment stems from is that they have tended to handle it better in the past. I watch SGA for two things. I love the humor and the banter, but I also like that adrenaline rush of 'oh crap'. The former has definitely been very good and consistent this season, it's the latter that hasn't for me. I haven't felt that for a majority of the second half and I'm surprised because not even in season 2 was there a long spell that left me disastisfied. There were episodes scattered in season 2 (Condemned and Hive) but I'm pretty easy to please, hey, I liked Tower and Sanctuary! So I guess I'm as surprised as anyone to be feeling disappointed, but it just hasn't had that believable 'danger, holy crap, we're in DANGER' feel.

I can definitely see what you're saying here, and like I've mentioned before, I do feel as if the show has lost a lot of that sort of "punch" this season (with episodes like "Irresponsible" and "Game" being the ultimate examples). I love the fluffiness in small doses, but the pendulum has swung a bit too far that way. For me, the massacre of the townspeople in this episode went a long way towards redeeming it, in my eyes. But I *am* with you on the lack of overt damage.

Oh yeah, that was so gruesome and had a wonderful impact. I think I'd rate Vengeance right after Return part 2 and Echoes for the second half. I loved plenty of moments in The Game, Tao, Ark, Irresponsible and Sunday, but for me those three had the better 'whole package'. My only quibble with Tao is that I'm petty and wanted Shep's gene to be highlighted in an episode. But otherwise it was a great episode and I admit it's my sheppard-bias/pettiness keeping that from being a homerun for me. I absolutely adored the Ronon-Rodney scene and the John-Rodney stuff. It was great and I had tears at the end and all *yay* at the solution, I think that actually had the 'holy crap' feel to it. I just *sniff* want to see something with Shep's gene.

But anyway, back OT, when they panned over those poor Taranin's...OMG, that was a good tone-setter there.

Aha! You know, I had been wondering for a while what it was about Tao that you didn't like, but I was sort of afraid to ask, because that episode was such a total five-star episode for me that I kinda didn't want to know. For me, Tao was absolutely everything I want from an h/c episode (aside from the abundance of Weir, but that's just me being petty) -- but I'm very equal-opportunity when it comes to Rodney and Sheppard whump, with maybe a *leeeetle* preference for Rodney, in part because I so thoroughly adore Sheppard in "protective big brother" mode. I really, desperately want a Tao-type episode for Sheppard now. I thought we'd had that in "Common Ground" -- I remember thinking after CG that "Now we need an episode like that for Rodney!" (What with the whump and massive team-concern and all.) And then Tao just completely blew all of my h/c expectations for this show out of the water, and now I desperately want a "Tao of Sheppard". Maybe next season? *hope hope*

*nods* reading your comments I'm starting to see what you're saying. It really does all come down to everyone watching for different things (something I'm TRYING to remember, honest!)

That said though I haven't really seen the the show becoming "less" of anything as you and

friendshipper seem to be saying it has become - if I'm understanding you right. To me it's all felt mostly the same - but I guess that goes back to us picking up different things again.

Yeah, I think it does come down to individual -- I think

friendshipper but it best when she said it lacks that punch more lately. That's what I'm feeling. For me, a majority of episodes in season one and two, and the first half of season 3 had that. But in the second half of season 3, it's been missing for me more than it's been there, so the scales are unbalanced for the first time and it's really affecting how I feel. I've never felt this much dissastisfaction before.

The punch would be like what you feel at the end of The Defiant One, or 38 minutes, or Inferno and Coup de'tat...that 'wow' kind of adrenaline push.

I've really felt they perfected the banter, and the relationships in season 3 but they lost that punch, that climatic delivery. I had an issue with the ending of Progeny yet I still feel it delivered that climatic ending. Aurora, ummmm, let's see The Storm/Eye, Underground, well I'd save time if I listed the few in season one and two that didn't really deliver. Most of them did as far as how I feel.

The punch would be like what you feel at the end of The Defiant One, or 38 minutes, or Inferno and Coup de'tat...that 'wow' kind of adrenaline push.

*nods* yeah I get it now. :O) Totally get what you're saying and I think if I started going back and thinking about the episodes more seriously I'd probably end up starting to feel the same way you guys do. At the same time though my first thought is that there have always been intense episodes and not so intense episodes all along depending on which episodes you watch.

And also I'm glad they have developed the banter/friendship more this season too - and if it means that there is less of a "punch" well than I can handle that.

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iamrighthere.livejournal.com - 2007-01-31 02:53 (UTC) - Expand

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kodiak-bear.livejournal.com - 2007-01-31 02:57 (UTC) - Expand

*grin* Well, like I just replied to Kodiak, I did notice that, too. I guess that it didn't bother me because I didn't expect it, but there were a few scenes that made me kinda go "awww" that nobody got seriously hurt, because they should've. This *is* one area where I'd really like to see more realism from the show.

But like you say, it's SGA and probably will never give us that ... so I'll just get my fix from fanfic.

And I just replied back aknowlaging that you both actually have a point - it's just that it's one more thing that I usually end up LAUGHING at rather than thinking it's a bad thing... *shrug*

Heh, maybe that's my problem, other than what I've beta'd, I haven't been reading fanfic! :)

*snort* Yeah, I'm actually very much with you on that. Pretty much every time they got attacked during the episode I'd be all *bounce bounce* and then they'd stand up afterward with barely a scratch and I'd kinda *droop*. And as you point out, it would honestly be more realistic if they HAD gone with a bit more blood and gore. I really thought they'd done in Sheppard at the end when the bug attacks him there -- but no. What were those bugs doing, just batting them around with mittens on?!

Still, there have been so MANY episodes that had so much potential for physical harm to the characters and then they got out of it easily ... I guess it's not something that bothers me that much any more. I appreciate the h/c when we get it, but we really don't get it all that often...

It would have been nice though. And I did notice.

Someone needs to write the "what really happened!" version where they're all bruised, bloody and limping by the time they get home. Plus, I would love a missing scene of Shep letting them out of the dart - loads of possibilities for J/R snarkage as well as "yay we all survived" teamy-goodness there. :D

Oh, someone NEEDS to write that missing scene!

Yeah but those kinds of missing scenes have the danger of becoming over the top with angst...

Take the episdoe Runner for example where Rodney was hanging from the tree by his ankle. If it had been real he would have had a LOT of damage to both his ankle and probably most of his leg too - plus all the time spent hanging upside down would have made him sick... I've seen more than one tag that took it to extremes - and I won't even get started on how they ended up having John treat Rodney in those fics...

I must admit that I tend to laugh at missing scenes/tags that take something perfectly innocent from the episode and spin it out into a GIANT ANGST-FEST. On the other hand, sometimes there is genuine potential that isn't realized in the show. In a case like this one, I think a reunion scene when everyone's materialized out of the dart could be quite nice.

Yes! OMG, if they'd just gotten some roughed up to them it would've made it feel so much more real. It was a really solid episode but for the lack of 'holy crap, Sheppard just got threw across the corridor...and they fired like how many clips into that thing while it was holding Ronon so close they could've kissed and there goes Sheppard *again* LOL, yet he popped back up not even looking very shaken, darn it. The missed opportunity had my eyes crossed but I think that's because I'm deprived lately LOL!

The missed opportunity had my eyes crossed but I think that's because I'm deprived lately LOL!

*laughs* Yeah, they've been doing gorgeous with the team-bonding and hanging around off-duty stuff (which I love) but definitely not so much with the h/c! Darn it all!

And it was totally a missed opportunity with Sheppard NOT having to deal with Iratus bugs crawling on him. Though they did reaffirm his now-very-canonical bug problem.

We could also say that there was lots of adrenaline at work and they're more banged up than they look. Maybe they stagger off-camera and collapse. *grin*

~nods sagely~ Y'all gotta understand that SGA1 is field testing these absolutely awesome BDUs that are guaranteed to never show any wear and/or tear regardless of the stress to which they are subjected. Right up there with armor plating,only more flexible.

~sigh~ Our only hope is if it turns out that the team develops a sensitivity to the fabric and has to stop wearing the uniform.

Susn

You know, if it happened in the middle of a mission, then they'd have to run around mostly naked ...

(Had another thought after I finished typing that last one.) I think it's roughly analogous to the medical/scientific realism thing. I can't wait to hear what my sister is going to have to say about this one, because she's a geneticist and pretty much all the episodes that deal with the retrovirus or the Wraith/Iratus connection send her into a screaming fit of frustration.

For me, that's not that big of a deal. I can ignore it and accept that the silly science is necessary to move the plot forward. But for some people that's a real sticking point in their enjoyment of the show.

The h/c thing tends to bother me more because that's what I really *want* out of a show.

True, I usually don't nit the science stuff because I have no problem thinking 'okay, it's just sci-fi, they can play loose with the rules'...and there are enough times I'm too clueless to know better anyway. :)

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SGA 3x19: Vengeance

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