... can I blame xparrot for this?

[sholio]

xparrot is reading Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series for the first time, so I was prompted to dust off some of my favorite books in the series for a re-read, and swallowed a whole one yesterday. As well as enjoying it greatly, I also was intrigued to see how my perceptions of the books had changed over the years.

(xparrot, don't read this 'til you're farther along! LOADS OF SPOILERS! I'll link you back to it later if you want.)

The one I read was "Brothers in Arms", because I am completely and unabashedly head-over-heels for Mark, so if I was going to re-read, I wanted to start with Mark's books.

What's interesting to me, though, is that in the intervening 15+ years since I read this series for the first time, my tastes have changed. Not enough to make me dislike the series or any of the characters I liked before; actually, with the exception of a few things that bother me now that never bothered me before (like the way that Bel Thorne's gender identity is handled), I actually like the books more. As a reader, in the last 15 years I've become much less myopic about the characters and character relationships that I like, and more interested in the overall world and ensemble. In general, I mean, not just in this series, though it really shows up when I go back and re-read something like this, where I remember having very definite emotional reactions to it the first time, and now my reactions are .... different. I've always liked large ensemble casts, even back then, but in my teens and early 20s I had a tendency to zero in on particular characters and/or character relationships in the ensemble, to the point of skimming the rest of the book whenever they weren't "onscreen" so to speak. In the Vorkosigan books, I was deeply, deeply fixated on Mark and his sibling relationship with Miles. In the books that didn't have Mark, it was mostly Miles that held me, or Elli Quinn and the Dendarii. ("Ethan of Athos" is one of the books I need to re-read; I don't remember the book as a whole very well, but I do remember being delighted to see Elli without Miles around to overshadow her.)

I also used to be bored out of my skull by romance. Miles' search for a Lady Vorkosigan was easily my least favorite aspect of the books, and I was also easily bored by the books that dealt with Barrayaran politics. At the time I originally mainlined the series, "Mirror Dance" was the latest one, and my reaction to the books following it was mostly disappointment for two reasons: a) not nearly enough Mark, and b) not enough space opera and way too much politics. In fact, I think the only one of the post-Mirror Dance books that I enjoyed all the way through was "A Civil Campaign", because it was so much fun to see the whole Vorkosigan clan together (including, not coincidentally, lots of Mark) and eventually I quit reading the books altogether because I was no longer even managing to finish them. "Memory", I think in retrospect, I unfairly judged at the time because it was the first book post-Mirror Dance and I wanted a lot of things from it that I didn't get (namely more closure with Mark, and more action). But then I was increasingly disappointed with the books after "Memory" as well, aside from "A Civil Campaign", which I did enjoy despite finding it rather slow-paced. I didn't make it more than a few chapters into the one that introduced Ekaterin (can't remember the title), didn't even try "Cetaganda" because the cover copy promised 24/7 politics and a lot of Ivan (more on Ivan in a minute), and I only skimmed the first part of "Diplomatic Immunity" to see if Mark was in it (he wasn't).

(Also, on my first read-through of the series up to "Mirror Dance", the one book I didn't read was the second of the Cordelia books, because I found the first one very slow going. I liked Cordelia as a character, but, as noted above, was utterly uninterested in romance and therefore found any parts of the book involving Cordelia and Aral, i.e. most of it, alternately dull and frustrating, plus I was missing Miles and the rest of the younger generation. Since I've mellowed on romance a great deal since then, as well as becoming more world-focused and less myopically character-centric, I think I would probably like this part of the series a lot better now.)

But after re-reading "Brothers in Arms", I think I need to give a second chance to all the books that I skipped or didn't like the first time, particularly "Cetaganda", because I actually like Ivan this time. A lot. And believe me, I'm more surprised than anyone. *g* I didn't hate him when I originally read the books, but my reaction to him ranged from indifference to annoyance. Re-reading "Brothers in Arms", I was hugely surprised to discover that I now find Ivan completely adorable, and his sibling-ish relationship with Miles more adorable yet. I suppose it helps that the two of them are at maximum adorable in this book, what with Ivan repeatedly breaking regs to help his cousin sneak in and out of the embassy, and then Miles rescuing Ivan from the pumping station ...

Actually, just going by this book alone, Miles' perennial irritation with Ivan and his characterization of Ivan as an annoying troublemaker is completely baffling, because all Ivan does in this book is bend over backwards helping Miles out. This makes me wonder what Ivan is like in the other books, because back when I read them originally, I remember taking Miles' view of Ivan as canon, but just going off this book, I ... don't think it actually is; the one of them who's always getting in trouble is Miles, and Ivan mostly seems to be an easygoing nice guy who gets dragged into Miles' problems, not the troublemaker that Miles keeps telling us he is. This makes me wonder what else I missed in the other books, particularly since I keep circling confusedly back around to "Wow, Miles and Ivan are completely adorable and, in their own way, completely devoted to each other, and HOW ON EARTH DID I NEVER NOTICE THIS."

... actually, I know exactly why I never noticed it, though. It's because of that microfocus thing. I got fixated on Mark and Miles' sibling relationship, and never even noticed the Ivan and Miles sibling relationship that was right under my nose. I still adore Mark, more as the person he becomes than the person he is now -- poor angry messed-up kid -- and I'm looking forward to "Mirror Dance" next ... but I think the next one I read after that will probably be "Cetaganda", because I have done a complete 180-degree turn from "Miles and Ivan? meh." to "Miles and Ivan! WHERE CAN I GET SOME OF THAT!" (And it's a book I haven't read!)

This is another thing I remember very distinctly about younger me, that has changed utterly: I used to want my favorite character relationship to be THE ONLY IMPORTANT ONE, and would mentally downplay its competition to make it stand out for me -- like I said, I am quite sure that one of the reasons I never really noticed how cute Ivan and Miles are is because I'd already gotten fixated on Miles and Mark, and didn't really have room in my head or heart for another "brother" for Miles. I actually think what made me stop doing this was getting involved in fandom and seeing how much it annoyed me when other people did that. Heh. And maybe it was just getting a little older, and managing to let go of that idea that you can only ever have one of anything (one lover, one best friend) -- whatever the reason, I have done a complete 180 on that as well, and now I want my favorite characters to have ALL THE THINGS, and I don't experience any mental gear-grinding at all when I shift from loving on Miles & Mark to loving on Miles & Ivan (or Ivan & Mark, for that matter, which I remember we get some of in "Mirror Dance"!).

And can I just say that I like me SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY. :) Re-reading this book, and reflecting on what I used to like and dislike about the series, I keep thinking, "Wow, teenage me was a really condescending little twerp, wasn't she. D:" I'm looking forward to reading some of the other books without quite so many of my preconceived notions (about romance, about the characters, about the world) getting in the way.

In summary, I guess, a much shorter version of the above: after all those times that I've tried to read a book I used to love, only to find out that I've outgrown it, it's quite delightful to go the other way entirely, and find that I can appreciate a book (and some of the characters in it) in a whole new and more satisfying way than I used to.

Comments

"SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY"

[brightknightie]

I'm a bit stunned at your (earlier) take on the Vorkosigan saga. I think... you're now in for a treat. :-)

From my perspective, you chose to skip all the good stuff -- the absolutely stunning Barrayar, for example, which is nothing at all like the converted-Trek-fanfic Shards of Honor, plus all the psychology explored through the politics, and the way Miles's self-centeredness (naturally) tilts his views on everyone else through most of his life, as well as the intricacies of both Ivan and Gregor's relationships with Miles as well as others.

Memory is my favorite Vorkosigan novel. I read it over and over, finding new flourishes and better appreciating its structure every time. Dismissing it boggles me. ... You'll find lots of important Ivan-and-Miles in it when you give it a fresh chance. ;-)

Re: "SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY"

[sholio]

We'll see, definitely. :) The thing about the Vorkosigan series is that the books are so completely all over the map in terms of style, structure and the kinds of situations they address ... one person will find plenty to relate to in a book that bores another person to tears. In college I was much more drawn to the space-opera elements of the books -- explosions and space mercenaries and the like -- than to the political or psychological behind-the-scenes; I appreciated that it was there, but I didn't have that much interest in dwelling on the characters' inner lives when it wasn't wrapped up in a structure of interstellar war or a breakout from a prison camp or whatnot, or at least laced with madcap comedy-of-errors humor the way that "Brothers in Arms" is. I don't know how much that has changed about me. I do remember thinking even at the time that I could tell Memory was a good book, it just wasn't a book that was working for me at the present time. But perhaps that might have changed.

Re: "SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY"

[brightknightie]

>"the books are so completely all over the map in terms of style, structure and the kinds of situations they address"

When read in the chronology of Miles's life, that is certainly the impression they give! However, when arranged in the order in which Bujold wrote them -- e.g. Shards of Honor and Barrayer are packaged together now as Cordelia's Honor, but were written something like a decade apart -- I believe that what appears is steady progression from space adventure to detective adventure.

That doesn't contradict your contention that different readers enjoy different formulas! I mean rather to suggest how that "map" may be read as path more straight than curly. :-)

Regarding some of the other comments and replies, you might enjoy the bit at the very end of Barrayer where we get some insight into how and why child-Miles learned to manipulate people, and how that plugs into parts of the other books, including the fact that "Ivanyouidiot" looks lazy, stupid and irresponsible only in the overwhelming shadows of his dangerously hyper and preternaturally brilliant near cousin, and his solemnly burdened Emperor distant cousin. In the childhoods of those characters, most of the adults couldn't help focusing (one way or another) on disabled Miles and royal Gregor and consequently overlooking/underestimating Ivan (and the girls) to some degree that they might otherwise not have.

Just some thoughts. :-) In any case, I would find it hard to believe that rereading the Vorkosigan saga, in any order, would ever be less than a treat. ;-) Have fun!

[sholio]

Oh, that's interesting about the books' evolving through time. I had already gotten the general impression that Bujold became increasingly interested in exploring her characters' inner lives as she gained more life experience herself, as opposed to the more straightforward action novels that she wrote when she was a bit younger. It's also interesting to see that she's doing it within the same series; lots of writers change and evolve their writing style and subject matter as they age, but most of them do it with different, unrelated books and series. It is really fascinating to see Miles and the series itself growing up along with the author.

[lastscorpion]

I've read all those books multiple times now, and I love them a lot. I can't believe you skipped the 2nd part of Cordelia's Honor! It's a lot faster-paced than the first part.

IIRC, Ivan was a guy who partied a lot, avoided responsibility, and went through a lot of women when he was, like late teens - early twenties, on Barrayar. He's way more responsible when he's off-planet, which makes a lot of sense, IMO. Also, with Miles being, what, two years younger than him? He probably heard all the adults in his life complaining about the worst of Ivan's shenanigans in a cautionary kind of way all the time. (Leading to him shanghaiing an entire mercenary fleet at seventeen instead of, like, being arrested for drunk-and-disorderly at that age.) There must be something to Ivan's bad reputation -- people like Aral, who is a pretty reliable source, seem to regard him as having been something of a flibbertigibbet -- but the stories don't actually show Ivan's bad behavior much. I like to think of him as having been a member of the Drones Club, myself.

[sholio]

I think this makes sense with what I've seen of Ivan so far, and what I remember of him from reading the books before. Like I was saying over on LJ, the way that Miles and Ivan relate to each other, and particularly the way that Miles relates to Ivan, seems quite realistic for an adult whose impressions of someone were formed in childhood and never quite managed to account for the fact that the other guy has grown up too, and changed a bit. (With, as you said, a little rumor and authority-figure disapproval thrown into Miles' recollections, as well.) I find it fascinating, though, that I never actually realized when I read the books before that Miles is not necessarily a reliable source on the other people in his life, and I'm pretty sure it's deliberate -- that we're not meant to take Miles' assessment of Ivan, or anyone, entirely at face value.

One of the things I love about Bujold's books (and I remember even from my reading of them before) is that, on the surface, they're straightforward space opera -- explosions, romance and interstellar politics -- but there is also a huge amount of psychological subtlety to them, and some really original sci-fi ideas (or, more accurately, very original handling of sci-fi cliches, like what she does with the "evil clone" idea in the Mark books).

[lastscorpion]

IMO, it's because she does such a brilliant job of writing her awesome adventure stories, romances, space operas, spy stories, etc. from the PoV of her PoV characters! That puts psychological richness right into the mix, while not making them boring talking-heads type books, like what they force you to read in school.

[sholio]

Oh man, YES. I just got done with Mirror Dance (... didn't get much else done today, actually) and that book is absolutely brilliant at how she stays in her characters' POVs -- it's especially dramatic when she's having Miles and Mark describe the same characters/events from their respective POVs at the beginning, with each of them noticing different aspects of the situation, and later when we get all the other characters' outside POVs on Miles by way of Mark's conversations with them. I wasn't sure how I'd react to Mirror Dance, not having read it in 15 years, but I was blown away all over again at how well she balances her action plot with the psychological/character plot.

[amalthia]

I now feel like re-reading these books. :) They get better the older I become. I think the first time I read them I was there for the action/adventure and was not prepared for Memory or Mirror Dance at all!

[sholio]

They get better the older I become.

This is definitely what I'm finding to be true of me, as well! It's a nice change from all those books that I loved when I was a kid, then re-read as an adult and was horribly disappointed. But this has been the exact opposite.

[winter_elf]

honestly, I never got too much into the books - way to much 'over thinking' made it hard reading for me. Miles is way to thinky-not enough action. My friends LOVE the books (and author). So, in the last year, I've actually met Lois McMaster Bujold twice at signings/cons and listened to her talk (and read the 1st chapter of her next book), and she's a very interesting person. Of her books - my favorite is Ethan of Athos, but I am looking forward to her next book - which a book featuring Ivan actually, and the first chapter sounds like a scream!

[sholio]

Oh, that's neat that you got to meet her! :)

The last few books actually did lean too heavily into the "not enough action" category for my tastes as well -- though the last time I read one of them was several years ago, and I'm enjoying them a lot on the re-read!

[winter_elf]

yea, the first time was just a quick signing in March - but she was also at Worldcon in Reno in August - and I attended a number of panels and signings and a kaffeeclatch with her (my sister and her hubby are also huge fans). And she definately is an interesting person and very intelligent in the questions. the kaffeeclatch was so excellent (I wish I could have recorded it), in that 9 people, huge fans asking about her writing style, interests, history and etc. I think you would have loved the info talked about.

[trobadora]

Oh, interesting! I always wanted to try that series, but I'm not quite sure where to start. Any recommendations? *g*

[sholio]

Well, I just don't know anymore, since my earlier opinions of the series are completely up in the air right now! *g* The books are all online for free (unless there's some kind of region blocking), so you can try any of them. I'd say, depending on what kind of reading experience you want right now, there are three ways you can go:

- Start at the very beginning with Cordelia's Honor. This is good if you want a female protagonist (we switch over to Miles in a couple of books and never really go back) and if you want to start at the beginning and go chronologically. When I read the series the first time, I skipped back to this one and couldn't finish it because a) too much romance for me at the time (it's focused on two lovers on opposite sides of a war falling in love), and b) I desperately missed the characters I'd gotten to know in present time, because it's about 20 years earlier. So there is that.

- Start with the first of the Miles books, Young Miles. Miles is Cordelia's son. It's pretty much classic space opera, and faster-paced than the earlier Cordelia novels (or so xparrot says).

- Skip straight to the middle of the series, which was the point where it took over my id and may grab yours as well: Miles Errant (this is an omnibus edition of Brothers in Arms and Mirror Dance, my two favorite books in the series). Personally I think the series is really hitting its stride at this point: it's sloughed off some of the pacing problems of the earlier books, and it has a great blend of action, humor, and tragedy. The problem with starting at this point, I'm realizing on my re-read, is that you'll run into exactly the same problem I had when I read the books before, which is that you'll probably get invested in Mark as a main character and he really isn't. But I think out of the whole series, you'd probably like this part best.

So there's my advice, for what it's worth. *g* Possibly to be amended as I read more of the series and see how the rest of it looks to me now that I'm no longer 22!

[trobadora]

Thanks muchly! I saw that the books were available online - I love that; I wish everything were. The books I like, I'll buy anyway. Baen is just fabulous. :)

two lovers on opposite sides of a war falling in love

That sounds just up my alley, thematically speaking. Not because of the lovers, but because of the opposite sides. *g* Do people still do the friendship version of that trope, I wonder, or is it all romance these days? Of course the friendship version doesn't have its obvious happy ending ...

And I don't think I quite want to jump right into the middle of the series, so I'll probably give it a go from the beginning. If it's not quite my thing I can just jump ahead. :)

And I'm looking forward to more posts from you on the series - very interesting to hear how the reading experience has changed for you!

[http://users.livejournal.com/ari_/]

I'd go for "start at the beginning". They're relatively fast reads, and the Cordelia books do give a good background on the different cultures.

Do read them, there's some very nice fanfiction for them. :)

[trobadora]

Thanks muchly! Fast reads sounds good; I don't know that I have the concentration for something more slow-going right now.

[alessandriana.livejournal.com]

I'd say start with internal chronology (barring the Cordelia books, which I'd say leave for last-- you get more out of them that way. Or at least I did.)

FYI, there is one book missing from the online repository Sholio mentioned-- Memory. You do NOT want to skip over it; it's extremely crucial to the books afterwards.

[sholio]

... huh, "Memory" isn't there? I didn't even notice that ... it seems like a very odd omission, since it's right smack in the middle of everything.

[alessandriana.livejournal.com]

Yep, it's not there, I think because it was never included in the omnibuses-- something about LMB thinking it stood best on its own. *shrug*

[trobadora]

Thank you for the tip, I'll make sure not to miss that one!

I've decided to start at the beginning for now. :)

[winter-elf.livejournal.com]

in a discussion circle I was in with 9 huge fans and the author - the general agreement was to start with Cordelia books and work your way through. (the question was what book would they give to a fellow fan to have them try if they had never read the author). A few suggested to start with the 1st Miles book and then go back to the Cordelia books.

[trobadora]

Thank you! I did start with Cordelia in the end. :)

[tabby333.livejournal.com]

Very iteresting.I had the reverse privileging of brothers for Miles. I liked Ivan very much and had no room in my head for Mark. I read this book again years later and found that I could like the guy. It is interesting how books change as we change.

As for Ivan, I think canon is more that Miles and just about everyone else are frustrated by Ivan's desire to not put his skills to good use and instead focus on living the easy life. He likes to appear incompetent so that not much is asked of him. Miles asks anyway. I enjoy their affection for each other despite knowing the weaknesses of each other. Ivan starts to shine more when politics takes center stage.

The secondary characters are well written and they helped to carry me through the series. That's one of Bujold's strengths

[sholio]

Very iteresting.I had the reverse privileging of brothers for Miles. I liked Ivan very much and had no room in my head for Mark. I read this book again years later and found that I could like the guy.

See, this makes perfect sense to me, because I think the exact same thing was happening the other way 'round for me at the time, I just didn't realize it. But if you'd fallen for Ivan and Miles' sibling-esque relationship and then all of a sudden another brother was trying to shoehorn his way into Miles' life, I can totally see how you'd react to him as an interloper. And now I like them both. It's funny how life does change us.

As for Ivan, I think canon is more that Miles and just about everyone else are frustrated by Ivan's desire to not put his skills to good use and instead focus on living the easy life.

Yeah, this fits with my reading of his character too, and not having read the books in ages, I'm first encountering Ivan here where he's more in his element (having found a rather cushy job he's good at, and already established when his cousin gets here). Still, I think that the perception of Ivan we get in the series is also filtered through Miles' lingering childhood jealousy/annoyance at him, and I never really got that before. I'd taken Miles' perceptions of Ivan at face value, but I'm really getting the impression, in this book at least, that Miles is not so much annoyed by Ivan's presence because of anything Ivan's likely to do, but because he's still nursing some childhood resentment of Ivan's attractiveness and popularity.

... which shouldn't be meant to come off as Miles-bashing; it's really not intended that way! I think that what makes them strike me that way now is that I've got a number of years as an adult sibling under my belt now, as opposed to when I read the book before, and this seems very accurate, to me, for two kids who grew up together getting reacquainted as adults and falling back into their childhood patterns of behavior -- on Miles' end at least.

One of the things about their dynamic that struck me afresh this time is that I hadn't remembered how much Miles dominates their relationship and Ivan tends to be dragged along with him. If anything, I'd remembered it being the other way around, though it makes a great deal more sense this way.

Miles must have been such a difficult child. *g*

But yeah, Bujold's whole cast is great, and it's so fascinating to get reacquainted with these characters and see them through new, older eyes. This was a particularly good book to start with for the Miles and Ivan dynamic, too, since the more affectionate side of their relationship is on display here, especially with Miles' protectiveness of Ivan when he goes missing and willingness to do whatever it takes to get him back.

[alessandriana.livejournal.com]

Oh Ivan. <333 I didn't pay much attention to him on my first run through the books-- not because I didn't like him, but because he was so very overshadowed by Miles in my head-- but on the second run-through a few months ago I fell head over heels. He hits a couple of my main writing kinks: the mildly-antagonistic-brotherly-relationship (but you know they'll always be there for each other), and the character who shows unexpected competence (even if he doesn't want to admit it! :D). The bit in Memory, where he bodily hauls Miles out of his depression, and then sticks around ostensibly to eat Ma Kosti's cakes but really because he's watching out for Miles-- and then at the end of ACC, where he shows up having basically masterminded Dono's ascension to the countship and then panics because he realizes Gregor now knows he's competent-- God, those are two of my favorite scenes pretty much ever.

(And LMB is writing a new Ivan book, did you know? I'm so excited!! Although it's going to be Ivan-and-Byerly, not Ivan-and-Miles. I'm sad we won't get to see more of the brother relationship, but I'm hoping it will give Ivan a chance to shine without being completely overshadowed by Miles.)

When I first read the series, I read it in chronological order, and think the fact that the introduction of Mark came so far into the series kind of predisposed me not to like him (at least the first time through.) I got as far as-- the scene in the beginning of Mirror Dance, I think, when Mark goes to rescue the clones, and I just couldn't bear to watch how horribly I knew it was going to turn out, so I put down the book and didn't go back for several years. Thankfully I did eventually pick it up again, or I would have missed several amazing books. *g* Watching Mark deal with Barrayar, and learning to like Aral and Cordelia, did eventually sell me on him. I can't say he's my absolute favorite character, but I do have a soft spot for him. :)

aaaand wow, this comment ended up way longer than I intended...

[sholio]

Heh, one of many things I've realized on the re-read (and this is after just reading one book!) is why the fandom seemed so lukewarm on Mark when I dipped my toe into it after my first go-around with the books in the mid-90s. This is less true than it used to be, I think -- now that everyone's had 15 years to warm up to the idea of having him in Miles' life -- and also, it may just be that I'm less bothered by people not liking my favorite character than when I was in my initial rush of obsession with the books (OH NOES, THE WHOLE WORLD DOES NOT CONSIST OF MEEEE~ *g*). But I get it. I didn't see Mark as an intruder because I started with the then-most recent books (Brothers in Arms and Mirror Dance) and worked my way backward, but if you'd been going along with the books in realtime and getting invested in Miles' family relationships as-is ... yeah, I can totally see how having a sudden long-lost brother dumped on you and then, to add insult to injury, being the main character in the next book would be a very unpleasant surprise.

I think the reasons why I didn't pay attention to Ivan on my first reading of the books were twofold: one was that I was fixated on Mark and Miles' relationship to the detriment of Miles & Ivan's, but the other was that I have always loved seeing characters climb out of adversity -- it was one of the things that I loved about Miles, too. Laid-back, well-adjusted Ivan didn't really draw me when I was 21. I wanted characters with ~ANGST~ and ~STRUGGLES~

... and I still like those things (and still love the way that she did go ahead and deal with Mark's issues rather than just shuffling him off somewhere, as inconvenient doubles are wont to be handled in sci-fi). But I think that along with mellowing and maturing, I've developed a broader taste for all kinds of protagonists, and I don't relate to Mark's over-the-top angst quite as much as I did when I was in college and dealing with my own over-the-top angst. *g*

As an older reader, actually, I admire the way that Ivan is just Ivan -- he knows who he is, and he doesn't really care if his family thinks he isn't living up to their expectations, any more than he resents his cousin for being brilliant and getting most of the family's attention. Ivan is someone that I could imagine really liking in RL, and someone who would make a good friend, for all his underachiever tendencies. He's very, very likable, and I'm really intrigued that I never saw this before.

Ironically, two days ago if you'd told me that she was writing an Ivan book, my reaction would have been "Oh God, WHY?" and now I'm thinking, "Ooh, that sounds fun!" :D

[gnine.livejournal.com]

Yeeeeah, she's been pimping them to me and I just lost last night to the firs tone. Read it in one go, looking forward to diving into more! ^__^ Only one down and already they're very addictive...

[sholio]

I hope you continue to enjoy them! ^^ I'm loving them on the re-read as much as I did the first time, but in a slightly different way; I'm finding myself drawn to different characters than I was the first time around.

[weesam.livejournal.com]

Oh thanks for reminding me about these books. It's been a while since my last re-read, and I think a new re-read is about due.

Funnily enough my most favourite books are Memory and Ceteganda, mostly because I actually prefer the Barrayar/political books that you disliked, and was less interested in the books that focused on Mark. I find the whole politics of Barrayar fascinating. Oh, and I am totally devoted to Ivan and always have been. No-one but Miles is allowed to mess with my Ivan!

[sholio]

Heh, yeah, and for me the political, onplanet books are a lot less interesting than the books that deal with the Dendarii Mercenaries and the more epic scope of space battles and the like. But I'll be intrigued to see how I respond to the political books the second time around. At the very least I'd like to take another shot at the books that I either haven't read at all (Cetaganda, Cryoburn) or have only read parts of (Komarr, Diplomatic Immunity).

[ceitie.livejournal.com]

Woo, Vorkosigan series! I had a really weird introduction to the series as I first discovered it through a Harry Potter fic crossover that was set a few years after Diplomatic Immunity, and had Ekaterin and Ivan as main characters. (Excellent story, by the way; you can find it here. (http://tsnm.shoesforindustry.net/tsnm1.html)

I then read the books in chronological order, impatiently waiting for Ekaterin to show up and Ivan to be a more important character. :D But I love Miles, and I loved Mark when he showed up too. You should definitely read Komarr if you get the chance, it starts slow but picks up speed.

[sholio]

Thanks for the link; I'll take a look! Heh, that must have been interesting. I've come to a few series by way of fanfic, and it's always an intriguing experience to see what's the same and what's not ...

I do plan to read the books that I never read (or never finished) on my first go-around with the series, and Komarr is somewhere on that list, though I think Cryoburn and Cetaganda are ahead of it ...

[wneleh.livejournal.com]

I think my arc of preferences through time is kind of the opposite of yours. As a kid/teen/young adult, my favorite books (shows, movies) were ensembles (with some exceptions) - everything from Tolkien to War and Peace to Heinlein to Arthur Ransome. I loved trying to map out and keep track of all the different relationships. But, more recently, I've mostly wanted to read dyads, mostly in fanfic form.

My first LMB book was Shards of Honor, and it's kind of odd that I loved it as much as I did given that it is really about Cordelia, and of course is a romance. I think it's its ficcy sensibility - it was originally a Mary Sue (Aral was a Klingon), and though LMB worked hard to wipe off the serial numbers it has that id vortexy feel to it. Pushed buttons I didn't know I had; pushed buttons I didn't even develop until I was 10 years older. Hmm, probably read it in 1992-3, after I'd been wallowing in Tom Clancy for a while and before Patrick O'Brian ate my brain.

If I'd originally read it packaged with Barrayar, not sure I'd have liked it as much - they're such different books, written at different times in LMB's life.

After Shards, I read the novellas in Mountains of Mourning - really glad I read it then, because I'd have had a hard time after motherhood, for many different reasons. I'm not even sure I could reread it now. At the time, I didn't love any of the stories, but they kept my attention; and next I raced through all the Miles books then in existence, which were fun. I accepted Ivan at face value, though eventually I realized that Miles might not be the best judge in that regard; it took me a while to twig onto Mark actually being important.

Thinking about this now, I think the only relationship of Miles that I really deeply cared about was Miles with himself. I like the others of his generation, but on the whole the dyads never quite hit what I was looking for - there was never a Frodo-Sam type of intensity to any of them, when and where I really wished there would be. But Miles is Miles; and LMB is LMB. (Heh, maybe my favorite Miles relationship was with Sgt. Bothari.)

OTOH, Cordelia/Aral may be my favorite het pair of all time.

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I'm way behind in LMB, mostly because I stopped reading printed fiction to myself in 1998. My husband read her books aloud after that, but eventually we both switched to reading to the kids mostly at night (husband still eats novels, so I think we have most of hers around; when I can read by myself, I read fanfic).

[sholio]

Heh, yeah, I did know that, about Shards of Honor being a Mary Sue/Klingon fanfic (and the idea of Aral as a Klingon never ceases to crack me up ...).

That's really interesting, that you've gone the other way! Yeah, I used to be a lot more dyad-focused than I am now -- I've always liked ensembles also, but I used to see the promise of a buddy-movie type relationship (best friends, rivals, siblings) and go for it like fan candy, and over the last ten years, I've kinda swung around to where I actually prefer the ensembles to the dyads.