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... can I blame xparrot for this?
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xparrot is reading Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series for the first time, so I was prompted to dust off some of my favorite books in the series for a re-read, and swallowed a whole one yesterday. As well as enjoying it greatly, I also was intrigued to see how my perceptions of the books had changed over the years.(
xparrot, don't read this 'til you're farther along! LOADS OF SPOILERS! I'll link you back to it later if you want.)The one I read was "Brothers in Arms", because I am completely and unabashedly head-over-heels for Mark, so if I was going to re-read, I wanted to start with Mark's books.
What's interesting to me, though, is that in the intervening 15+ years since I read this series for the first time, my tastes have changed. Not enough to make me dislike the series or any of the characters I liked before; actually, with the exception of a few things that bother me now that never bothered me before (like the way that Bel Thorne's gender identity is handled), I actually like the books more. As a reader, in the last 15 years I've become much less myopic about the characters and character relationships that I like, and more interested in the overall world and ensemble. In general, I mean, not just in this series, though it really shows up when I go back and re-read something like this, where I remember having very definite emotional reactions to it the first time, and now my reactions are .... different. I've always liked large ensemble casts, even back then, but in my teens and early 20s I had a tendency to zero in on particular characters and/or character relationships in the ensemble, to the point of skimming the rest of the book whenever they weren't "onscreen" so to speak. In the Vorkosigan books, I was deeply, deeply fixated on Mark and his sibling relationship with Miles. In the books that didn't have Mark, it was mostly Miles that held me, or Elli Quinn and the Dendarii. ("Ethan of Athos" is one of the books I need to re-read; I don't remember the book as a whole very well, but I do remember being delighted to see Elli without Miles around to overshadow her.)
I also used to be bored out of my skull by romance. Miles' search for a Lady Vorkosigan was easily my least favorite aspect of the books, and I was also easily bored by the books that dealt with Barrayaran politics. At the time I originally mainlined the series, "Mirror Dance" was the latest one, and my reaction to the books following it was mostly disappointment for two reasons: a) not nearly enough Mark, and b) not enough space opera and way too much politics. In fact, I think the only one of the post-Mirror Dance books that I enjoyed all the way through was "A Civil Campaign", because it was so much fun to see the whole Vorkosigan clan together (including, not coincidentally, lots of Mark) and eventually I quit reading the books altogether because I was no longer even managing to finish them. "Memory", I think in retrospect, I unfairly judged at the time because it was the first book post-Mirror Dance and I wanted a lot of things from it that I didn't get (namely more closure with Mark, and more action). But then I was increasingly disappointed with the books after "Memory" as well, aside from "A Civil Campaign", which I did enjoy despite finding it rather slow-paced. I didn't make it more than a few chapters into the one that introduced Ekaterin (can't remember the title), didn't even try "Cetaganda" because the cover copy promised 24/7 politics and a lot of Ivan (more on Ivan in a minute), and I only skimmed the first part of "Diplomatic Immunity" to see if Mark was in it (he wasn't).
(Also, on my first read-through of the series up to "Mirror Dance", the one book I didn't read was the second of the Cordelia books, because I found the first one very slow going. I liked Cordelia as a character, but, as noted above, was utterly uninterested in romance and therefore found any parts of the book involving Cordelia and Aral, i.e. most of it, alternately dull and frustrating, plus I was missing Miles and the rest of the younger generation. Since I've mellowed on romance a great deal since then, as well as becoming more world-focused and less myopically character-centric, I think I would probably like this part of the series a lot better now.)
But after re-reading "Brothers in Arms", I think I need to give a second chance to all the books that I skipped or didn't like the first time, particularly "Cetaganda", because I actually like Ivan this time. A lot. And believe me, I'm more surprised than anyone. *g* I didn't hate him when I originally read the books, but my reaction to him ranged from indifference to annoyance. Re-reading "Brothers in Arms", I was hugely surprised to discover that I now find Ivan completely adorable, and his sibling-ish relationship with Miles more adorable yet. I suppose it helps that the two of them are at maximum adorable in this book, what with Ivan repeatedly breaking regs to help his cousin sneak in and out of the embassy, and then Miles rescuing Ivan from the pumping station ...
Actually, just going by this book alone, Miles' perennial irritation with Ivan and his characterization of Ivan as an annoying troublemaker is completely baffling, because all Ivan does in this book is bend over backwards helping Miles out. This makes me wonder what Ivan is like in the other books, because back when I read them originally, I remember taking Miles' view of Ivan as canon, but just going off this book, I ... don't think it actually is; the one of them who's always getting in trouble is Miles, and Ivan mostly seems to be an easygoing nice guy who gets dragged into Miles' problems, not the troublemaker that Miles keeps telling us he is. This makes me wonder what else I missed in the other books, particularly since I keep circling confusedly back around to "Wow, Miles and Ivan are completely adorable and, in their own way, completely devoted to each other, and HOW ON EARTH DID I NEVER NOTICE THIS."
... actually, I know exactly why I never noticed it, though. It's because of that microfocus thing. I got fixated on Mark and Miles' sibling relationship, and never even noticed the Ivan and Miles sibling relationship that was right under my nose. I still adore Mark, more as the person he becomes than the person he is now -- poor angry messed-up kid -- and I'm looking forward to "Mirror Dance" next ... but I think the next one I read after that will probably be "Cetaganda", because I have done a complete 180-degree turn from "Miles and Ivan? meh." to "Miles and Ivan! WHERE CAN I GET SOME OF THAT!" (And it's a book I haven't read!)
This is another thing I remember very distinctly about younger me, that has changed utterly: I used to want my favorite character relationship to be THE ONLY IMPORTANT ONE, and would mentally downplay its competition to make it stand out for me -- like I said, I am quite sure that one of the reasons I never really noticed how cute Ivan and Miles are is because I'd already gotten fixated on Miles and Mark, and didn't really have room in my head or heart for another "brother" for Miles. I actually think what made me stop doing this was getting involved in fandom and seeing how much it annoyed me when other people did that. Heh. And maybe it was just getting a little older, and managing to let go of that idea that you can only ever have one of anything (one lover, one best friend) -- whatever the reason, I have done a complete 180 on that as well, and now I want my favorite characters to have ALL THE THINGS, and I don't experience any mental gear-grinding at all when I shift from loving on Miles & Mark to loving on Miles & Ivan (or Ivan & Mark, for that matter, which I remember we get some of in "Mirror Dance"!).
And can I just say that I like me SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY. :) Re-reading this book, and reflecting on what I used to like and dislike about the series, I keep thinking, "Wow, teenage me was a really condescending little twerp, wasn't she. D:" I'm looking forward to reading some of the other books without quite so many of my preconceived notions (about romance, about the characters, about the world) getting in the way.
In summary, I guess, a much shorter version of the above: after all those times that I've tried to read a book I used to love, only to find out that I've outgrown it, it's quite delightful to go the other way entirely, and find that I can appreciate a book (and some of the characters in it) in a whole new and more satisfying way than I used to.
"SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY"
From my perspective, you chose to skip all the good stuff -- the absolutely stunning Barrayar, for example, which is nothing at all like the converted-Trek-fanfic Shards of Honor, plus all the psychology explored through the politics, and the way Miles's self-centeredness (naturally) tilts his views on everyone else through most of his life, as well as the intricacies of both Ivan and Gregor's relationships with Miles as well as others.
Memory is my favorite Vorkosigan novel. I read it over and over, finding new flourishes and better appreciating its structure every time. Dismissing it boggles me. ... You'll find lots of important Ivan-and-Miles in it when you give it a fresh chance. ;-)
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IIRC, Ivan was a guy who partied a lot, avoided responsibility, and went through a lot of women when he was, like late teens - early twenties, on Barrayar. He's way more responsible when he's off-planet, which makes a lot of sense, IMO. Also, with Miles being, what, two years younger than him? He probably heard all the adults in his life complaining about the worst of Ivan's shenanigans in a cautionary kind of way all the time. (Leading to him shanghaiing an entire mercenary fleet at seventeen instead of, like, being arrested for drunk-and-disorderly at that age.) There must be something to Ivan's bad reputation -- people like Aral, who is a pretty reliable source, seem to regard him as having been something of a flibbertigibbet -- but the stories don't actually show Ivan's bad behavior much. I like to think of him as having been a member of the Drones Club, myself.
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One of the things I love about Bujold's books (and I remember even from my reading of them before) is that, on the surface, they're straightforward space opera -- explosions, romance and interstellar politics -- but there is also a huge amount of psychological subtlety to them, and some really original sci-fi ideas (or, more accurately, very original handling of sci-fi cliches, like what she does with the "evil clone" idea in the Mark books).
Re: "SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY"
Re: "SO MUCH BETTER THIS WAY"
When read in the chronology of Miles's life, that is certainly the impression they give! However, when arranged in the order in which Bujold wrote them -- e.g. Shards of Honor and Barrayer are packaged together now as Cordelia's Honor, but were written something like a decade apart -- I believe that what appears is steady progression from space adventure to detective adventure.
That doesn't contradict your contention that different readers enjoy different formulas! I mean rather to suggest how that "map" may be read as path more straight than curly. :-)
Regarding some of the other comments and replies, you might enjoy the bit at the very end of Barrayer where we get some insight into how and why child-Miles learned to manipulate people, and how that plugs into parts of the other books, including the fact that "Ivanyouidiot" looks lazy, stupid and irresponsible only in the overwhelming shadows of his dangerously hyper and preternaturally brilliant near cousin, and his solemnly burdened Emperor distant cousin. In the childhoods of those characters, most of the adults couldn't help focusing (one way or another) on disabled Miles and royal Gregor and consequently overlooking/underestimating Ivan (and the girls) to some degree that they might otherwise not have.
Just some thoughts. :-) In any case, I would find it hard to believe that rereading the Vorkosigan saga, in any order, would ever be less than a treat. ;-) Have fun!
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This is definitely what I'm finding to be true of me, as well! It's a nice change from all those books that I loved when I was a kid, then re-read as an adult and was horribly disappointed. But this has been the exact opposite.
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The last few books actually did lean too heavily into the "not enough action" category for my tastes as well -- though the last time I read one of them was several years ago, and I'm enjoying them a lot on the re-read!
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As for Ivan, I think canon is more that Miles and just about everyone else are frustrated by Ivan's desire to not put his skills to good use and instead focus on living the easy life. He likes to appear incompetent so that not much is asked of him. Miles asks anyway. I enjoy their affection for each other despite knowing the weaknesses of each other. Ivan starts to shine more when politics takes center stage.
The secondary characters are well written and they helped to carry me through the series. That's one of Bujold's strengths
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- Start at the very beginning with Cordelia's Honor. This is good if you want a female protagonist (we switch over to Miles in a couple of books and never really go back) and if you want to start at the beginning and go chronologically. When I read the series the first time, I skipped back to this one and couldn't finish it because a) too much romance for me at the time (it's focused on two lovers on opposite sides of a war falling in love), and b) I desperately missed the characters I'd gotten to know in present time, because it's about 20 years earlier. So there is that.
- Start with the first of the Miles books, Young Miles. Miles is Cordelia's son. It's pretty much classic space opera, and faster-paced than the earlier Cordelia novels (or so
- Skip straight to the middle of the series, which was the point where it took over my id and may grab yours as well: Miles Errant (this is an omnibus edition of Brothers in Arms and Mirror Dance, my two favorite books in the series). Personally I think the series is really hitting its stride at this point: it's sloughed off some of the pacing problems of the earlier books, and it has a great blend of action, humor, and tragedy. The problem with starting at this point, I'm realizing on my re-read, is that you'll run into exactly the same problem I had when I read the books before, which is that you'll probably get invested in Mark as a main character and he really isn't. But I think out of the whole series, you'd probably like this part best.
So there's my advice, for what it's worth. *g* Possibly to be amended as I read more of the series and see how the rest of it looks to me now that I'm no longer 22!
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See, this makes perfect sense to me, because I think the exact same thing was happening the other way 'round for me at the time, I just didn't realize it. But if you'd fallen for Ivan and Miles' sibling-esque relationship and then all of a sudden another brother was trying to shoehorn his way into Miles' life, I can totally see how you'd react to him as an interloper. And now I like them both. It's funny how life does change us.
As for Ivan, I think canon is more that Miles and just about everyone else are frustrated by Ivan's desire to not put his skills to good use and instead focus on living the easy life.
Yeah, this fits with my reading of his character too, and not having read the books in ages, I'm first encountering Ivan here where he's more in his element (having found a rather cushy job he's good at, and already established when his cousin gets here). Still, I think that the perception of Ivan we get in the series is also filtered through Miles' lingering childhood jealousy/annoyance at him, and I never really got that before. I'd taken Miles' perceptions of Ivan at face value, but I'm really getting the impression, in this book at least, that Miles is not so much annoyed by Ivan's presence because of anything Ivan's likely to do, but because he's still nursing some childhood resentment of Ivan's attractiveness and popularity.
... which shouldn't be meant to come off as Miles-bashing; it's really not intended that way! I think that what makes them strike me that way now is that I've got a number of years as an adult sibling under my belt now, as opposed to when I read the book before, and this seems very accurate, to me, for two kids who grew up together getting reacquainted as adults and falling back into their childhood patterns of behavior -- on Miles' end at least.
One of the things about their dynamic that struck me afresh this time is that I hadn't remembered how much Miles dominates their relationship and Ivan tends to be dragged along with him. If anything, I'd remembered it being the other way around, though it makes a great deal more sense this way.
Miles must have been such a difficult child. *g*
But yeah, Bujold's whole cast is great, and it's so fascinating to get reacquainted with these characters and see them through new, older eyes. This was a particularly good book to start with for the Miles and Ivan dynamic, too, since the more affectionate side of their relationship is on display here, especially with Miles' protectiveness of Ivan when he goes missing and willingness to do whatever it takes to get him back.
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(And LMB is writing a new Ivan book, did you know? I'm so excited!! Although it's going to be Ivan-and-Byerly, not Ivan-and-Miles. I'm sad we won't get to see more of the brother relationship, but I'm hoping it will give Ivan a chance to shine without being completely overshadowed by Miles.)
When I first read the series, I read it in chronological order, and think the fact that the introduction of Mark came so far into the series kind of predisposed me not to like him (at least the first time through.) I got as far as-- the scene in the beginning of Mirror Dance, I think, when Mark goes to rescue the clones, and I just couldn't bear to watch how horribly I knew it was going to turn out, so I put down the book and didn't go back for several years. Thankfully I did eventually pick it up again, or I would have missed several amazing books. *g* Watching Mark deal with Barrayar, and learning to like Aral and Cordelia, did eventually sell me on him. I can't say he's my absolute favorite character, but I do have a soft spot for him. :)
aaaand wow, this comment ended up way longer than I intended...
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I think the reasons why I didn't pay attention to Ivan on my first reading of the books were twofold: one was that I was fixated on Mark and Miles' relationship to the detriment of Miles & Ivan's, but the other was that I have always loved seeing characters climb out of adversity -- it was one of the things that I loved about Miles, too. Laid-back, well-adjusted Ivan didn't really draw me when I was 21. I wanted characters with ~ANGST~ and ~STRUGGLES~
... and I still like those things (and still love the way that she did go ahead and deal with Mark's issues rather than just shuffling him off somewhere, as inconvenient doubles are wont to be handled in sci-fi). But I think that along with mellowing and maturing, I've developed a broader taste for all kinds of protagonists, and I don't relate to Mark's over-the-top angst quite as much as I did when I was in college and dealing with my own over-the-top angst. *g*
As an older reader, actually, I admire the way that Ivan is just Ivan -- he knows who he is, and he doesn't really care if his family thinks he isn't living up to their expectations, any more than he resents his cousin for being brilliant and getting most of the family's attention. Ivan is someone that I could imagine really liking in RL, and someone who would make a good friend, for all his underachiever tendencies. He's very, very likable, and I'm really intrigued that I never saw this before.
Ironically, two days ago if you'd told me that she was writing an Ivan book, my reaction would have been "Oh God, WHY?" and now I'm thinking, "Ooh, that sounds fun!" :D
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Do read them, there's some very nice fanfiction for them. :)
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FYI, there is one book missing from the online repository Sholio mentioned-- Memory. You do NOT want to skip over it; it's extremely crucial to the books afterwards.
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Funnily enough my most favourite books are Memory and Ceteganda, mostly because I actually prefer the Barrayar/political books that you disliked, and was less interested in the books that focused on Mark. I find the whole politics of Barrayar fascinating. Oh, and I am totally devoted to Ivan and always have been. No-one but Miles is allowed to mess with my Ivan!
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I then read the books in chronological order, impatiently waiting for Ekaterin to show up and Ivan to be a more important character. :D But I love Miles, and I loved Mark when he showed up too. You should definitely read Komarr if you get the chance, it starts slow but picks up speed.
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My first LMB book was Shards of Honor, and it's kind of odd that I loved it as much as I did given that it is really about Cordelia, and of course is a romance. I think it's its ficcy sensibility - it was originally a Mary Sue (Aral was a Klingon), and though LMB worked hard to wipe off the serial numbers it has that id vortexy feel to it. Pushed buttons I didn't know I had; pushed buttons I didn't even develop until I was 10 years older. Hmm, probably read it in 1992-3, after I'd been wallowing in Tom Clancy for a while and before Patrick O'Brian ate my brain.
If I'd originally read it packaged with Barrayar, not sure I'd have liked it as much - they're such different books, written at different times in LMB's life.
After Shards, I read the novellas in Mountains of Mourning - really glad I read it then, because I'd have had a hard time after motherhood, for many different reasons. I'm not even sure I could reread it now. At the time, I didn't love any of the stories, but they kept my attention; and next I raced through all the Miles books then in existence, which were fun. I accepted Ivan at face value, though eventually I realized that Miles might not be the best judge in that regard; it took me a while to twig onto Mark actually being important.
Thinking about this now, I think the only relationship of Miles that I really deeply cared about was Miles with himself. I like the others of his generation, but on the whole the dyads never quite hit what I was looking for - there was never a Frodo-Sam type of intensity to any of them, when and where I really wished there would be. But Miles is Miles; and LMB is LMB. (Heh, maybe my favorite Miles relationship was with Sgt. Bothari.)
OTOH, Cordelia/Aral may be my favorite het pair of all time.
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I'm way behind in LMB, mostly because I stopped reading printed fiction to myself in 1998. My husband read her books aloud after that, but eventually we both switched to reading to the kids mostly at night (husband still eats novels, so I think we have most of hers around; when I can read by myself, I read fanfic).
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two lovers on opposite sides of a war falling in love
That sounds just up my alley, thematically speaking. Not because of the lovers, but because of the opposite sides. *g* Do people still do the friendship version of that trope, I wonder, or is it all romance these days? Of course the friendship version doesn't have its obvious happy ending ...
And I don't think I quite want to jump right into the middle of the series, so I'll probably give it a go from the beginning. If it's not quite my thing I can just jump ahead. :)
And I'm looking forward to more posts from you on the series - very interesting to hear how the reading experience has changed for you!
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I've decided to start at the beginning for now. :)
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I do plan to read the books that I never read (or never finished) on my first go-around with the series, and Komarr is somewhere on that list, though I think Cryoburn and Cetaganda are ahead of it ...
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That's really interesting, that you've gone the other way! Yeah, I used to be a lot more dyad-focused than I am now -- I've always liked ensembles also, but I used to see the promise of a buddy-movie type relationship (best friends, rivals, siblings) and go for it like fan candy, and over the last ten years, I've kinda swung around to where I actually prefer the ensembles to the dyads.
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