sholio | Thoughts on Torchwood: Children of Earth

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Thoughts on Torchwood: Children of Earth

Fair warning: in the end, I really liked it. I can see why people might not, and certainly I don't mind if you disagree ... but I did.

I had to process for a while to really figure out how I felt about it, because wow, that was DARK. I like me some dark, but it's been awhile since I've seen something that dark.

But the more I process, the more I like it. In some of the comments to my last entry, I wrote that I didn't think Torchwood was a good enough show to carry that much darkness (regarding the deaths of 3/5 of the team). I take it back, though. It really is that good. This was damn good television and very good sci-fi. It made me think -- heck, I'm still thinking, because they gave us the unambiguously horrible actions of the government, and then had Jack do the exact same thing, and now I'm doing a whole lot of musing on "end justifies the means" and where exactly do you draw the line between "this is worth it" and "this is too much of a line to cross"? One child? Five? Five thousand? Is it better to hold to your principles and watch the world die around you?

I really appreciate that, if Torchwood is going to kill people, it makes you feel it. When was the last time you watched a sci-fi or action movie or show that didn't kill someone? It's a running joke with Star Trek and its descendants -- that guy's the redshirt, he won't survive the show! I really do like Torchwood's greater, I guess, emotional honesty, that they don't just kill a building full of redshirts, they kill a building full of redshirts plus a character that we're attached to. They don't just sacrifice some random person for the good of the planet -- it's Jack's grandchild, and we aren't allowed to pull back and go, "Oh, it's okay, it doesn't matter and everything ended happily even though some people are dead."

I grew up on classic scifi, and even though I don't think Torchwood is a show that I'm going to be able to relate to in a fannish kind of way (and I really do feel for people who do, or did; I remember the gut-punch of Tosh and Owen's deaths, and I know you're going through the same thing), this miniseries hit me in that same way as some of those old stories ... a good way, even though it's horribly dark. I think I actually gave a little shriek out loud when Frobisher walked into the room with his wife and children, and you saw the gun and knew that the show was really going there. Actually I still get little shivery chills thinking about it. I love it when a story does that to me, as awful as it was, including the bitter irony that in this case, in the end, things would have turned out all right for his family if he hadn't done that. And I loved that, even while some people were doing horrible things, we saw other people reach down inside themselves for courage and strength -- the whole scene with the mob fighting back against the armed soldiers, "because someone has to", was brilliant, and so was the bit with Frobisher's admin assistant (I can't remember her name) and the contact lenses. And even though it hurts to think about, that little bit at the end of Ianto's death scene when Jack leans down and kisses him very gently -- that was good. So much better than the over-the-top grieving scenes at the end of season two.

So yeah ... I liked it. I think it holds together really well -- okay, the aliens' motivations make less and less sense the more I think about it, but they're really just a plot device to play out a story about fascism and human nature anyway. I thought the "Owen's death" arc in season two was some of the best sci-fi TV I'd seen, for all its implausibility, and the last half of this arc is right up there, despite the occasional cheesy and contradictory bits.

Even though I do feel for you guys on my f'list who are (as one person noted yesterday in their reaction post) feeling like you've been shivved with a rusty butter knife. *hugs you all*

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Again, reviews like this make me want to watch that ending. :)

I think it's worth it. :) But it is dark.

I agree.

*high-fives* :)

I loved that this mini-series made me think. My husband and I had a discussion on what we would do in their situation. I love when shows make me think though I do think they twisted the knife quite a bit. I'm just glad I wasn't heavily invested in this fandom or the characters.

I do enjoy my escapist fluff, but I also like stories that give me something to keep turning over in my head after the final scene. Lately my entertainment has leaned in the fluffy direction, and while there's nothing automatically wrong with that, I also enjoy being given something dense to chew on.

I'd probably be having more trouble dealing with it if I'd been more emotionally involved with the show and its characters. As it was, I enjoyed it as drama, which is probably how it's best seen.

Children of Earth was the most brilliant thing I've watch on TV since Life on Mars UK. Even with Ianto dying (I've come to terms...I *sob* but I understand) I absolutely loved this series. I was blown away by how well written, acted and directed it was.

I was so afraid that, after all the build up, the last day would just fizzle out. RTD has a tendency to do that with finales, where the first parts are the best. But man, that was heart-rending.

And darker than BSG ever got. Children as drugs?! I seriously wept when the children were being dragged away from their parents. I just kept thinking that, yes this was fiction. But this has happened in the past, children ripped from their parent's arms and loaded screaming into trucks bound for Auschwitz and Dachau and Siberia. And then I saw a little girl that looked like my niece... Yeah, I can't write about this anymore right now.

But back to the BSG thing. To me, some of the darkness of BSG seemed written in for darkness sake. Like, how much can we torture these poor people. The more I think about the storyline, what could they have possibly done any differently? How do you even begin to deal with a situation like that? Yes, it was science fiction and we don't have to worry about aliens anytime soon. But the reaction of the governments? That was plausible. It has happened. And it could happen again.

Everything about this series was pitch perfect. I just wonder, what Captain Jack Harkness we'll be seeing in the final Doctor Who's. How can he not be broken after all of this?

I just wonder, what Captain Jack Harkness we'll be seeing in the final Doctor Who's. How can he not be broken after all of this?

I'm kinda wondering that too, but DW!Jack has always been a somewhat different character from TW!Jack -- much lighter, less emo and moody. We saw the Torchwood team briefly on DW last season, after Tosh and Owen's deaths, without much sense of gloom despite the events of the finale. It would be odd if they don't address it *somehow*, though. (And, man, this is really making my heart twist, thinking of Jack circa season one of DW -- carefree and lighthearted, at least relative to how he was later, a playboy and action hero rather than the tragic figure that he became.)

The drugs thing was really inspired -- all along you're wondering what they need the children for (do they feed on them? use them to communicate? as an energy source?), but in the end it's something so incredibly petty and useless. And, yeah, the scenes with the children being taken, and the parents fighting back ... that, and the (extremely dark) end to Frobisher's arc, were just fantastic -- dark, brutal and fantastic.

(as one person noted yesterday in their reaction post) feeling like you've been shivved with a rusty butter knife.

AHAHAHAHA THAT WAS ME!

Though my pseudo-shivved state wasn't so much from fannish disappointment (despite my fannish Doctor Who tendencies, I never really went there with Torchwood, for all that I do enjoy it), as just feeling like I'd been put on a 5 hour roller coaster from hell (in a good way)! :))

After a night of sleep and processing time, I am still musing on it, but I completely agree that was was some DAMN good sci-fi, particular regarding some of the specific scenes you mentioned. I am still just incredibly impressed that Torchwood pulled that off, because, like you, I wasn't really sure they could.

I really appreciate that, if Torchwood is going to kill people, it makes you feel it.

God yes. I mean, it was all horrifying, but they pulled no punches and didn't try to "make it better" and while I get that some people do not enjoy that (and it's understandable!), I appreciate that kind of story telling, even if it makes me feel like I'll never be happy again after I finish watching. :)) I guess I appreciate that they didn't try to placate me by wrapping things up in a bow or whatever. They told the story and made me care and feel it. That's amazing!

I was exchanging comments last night with someone on my flist (which helped wiht the processing) and I think my desire to "not go back there" has more to do with the fact that I feel that Torchwood's story is kind of over, being that it was started to protect people from aliens/knowing about aliens, and now, everyone knows (or enough know), to where I kind of feel they've come around to being obsolete. Maybe? I don't know. I'm interested though, because I keep thinking about how this is all tied into Doctor Who and its message. That might be "over-thinking it" or whatever, but the two shows are pretty entwined in my mind, despite how very different they are in tone and message.

God, I am blabby today! :)) But yay for thinky television!

Hee! That phrase just stuck in my brain; I didn't even remember much of the post that inspired it. :D

I'm glad that a lot of my flist seemed to appreciate the show despite its darkness. And I kinda agree with you that this feels like the end. It's certainly the end of Torchwood as we know it. I'm happy to leave the series here -- it went out on a high note, and the characters are moving on to other things; even if they *did* try to, so to speak, put the band back together, it wouldn't really work -- most of them are dead, the Hub's destroyed, Gwen and Rhys have a good life and Jack's moved on to other things. I *like* having this be my last view of them.

YES. I agree, 100%. I think, though, that what made Jack's actions so heartbreaking was that he made the choice *personally* to sacrifice both his child and his grandchild--because he knew there would be no forgiveness from Alice for his choice. He carried the responsibility and the pain himself--and rather than sacrifice some unknown kid, he chose his own. It's both more noble and more cold and calculating at the same time. But the gub'mint cabal was being very careful to foist the choices and the heartbreak off on everyone else--not MY kids, or my family's, but the "non-palatable" elements of the culture--people like Ianto's brother-in-law, on the dole and "worthless," and yet willing to fight for his kids to the bitter end. I loved, loved the way they played all that out.

And was it just me, or was it chilling that Ms. "Choose the non-productive children" was taking over from the PM at the end? What made her any less morally compromised?

Yeah, the more I think about it, the less sense the aliens make, but the social commentary in this is just devastatingly perfect in how it's written and played out. I love this the more I think about it. Kind of reminds me of "Watchmen" in a way, like that.

What they did with Ianto's sister and her family was utterly brilliant, because we meet this sweet little family, these likable and kinda goofy people, and get to know them -- and then we find out that they're the expendables, the bottom 10%'ers, and see the soldiers coming for them and watch them acting with courage and dignity and self-sacrifice. Meanwhile, Frobisher and his pampered, top 1%'er family fall apart -- where Ianto's sister's husband throws himself between his children (and other people's children) and an army, Frobisher's only way of dealing with it is to kill his family and himself. And in the end, Frobisher and his kids are dead, and Ianto's in-laws are together and safe and alive. It's a marvelous little subversive bit of storytelling.

... and hmm, you know, 'til you pointed it out, I hadn't really consciously made the comparison between Jack's sacrifice of his own grandchild and the government types' willingness to sacrifice other people's children but not their own. That's a really good point, and demonstrates, I guess, that these are the people worth rooting for; as dark as the show was, it still put some of the very best aspects of human nature on display, along with the worst.

Edited to add: And I thought of Watchmen too -- actually, I almost put a comparison into the above post. It's really a very similar dilemma, though in Watchmen (the book anyway; I haven't seen the movie) there's the added angle that Ozymandias is enough of a megalomaniac that he's not particularly affected by what he's done. In Torchwood the world is saved by a decent person who makes a terrible decision and breaks himself in the process; in Watchman, the savior of the world is a complete bastard, but of course no one knows that.

Edited 2009-07-11 22:02 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong; I think Jack would have done what he did no matter whose child was there at the time. That it happened to be his was shit bad luck--or karma. I think he did see it as some kind of karma, actually. He had willingly led Clem and his fellow orphans to their horrific fates; now his child is the price that must be paid to save the rest of earth's children from that same fate. It was payback with a vengeance, and nothing less than he deserved. He even waited to see Alice's reaction, knowing that she wasn't going to forgive him. Hope, yes, on his part, but also twisting the knife.

Ah, sorry for going on. I find Jack to be an endlessly fascinating character, so I tend to obsess over him. I loved Tosh and was pissed when they killed her off. Owen, too, as he'd become a much better character over season 2. But Jack is the reason I watched and kept watching throughout.

Goreat point about Ianto's brother-in-law fighting for other people's kids. He's just trying to make a few bucks, bringing in all those extra kids for his wife to watch, but in the end, he's fighting for all those kids, not just his own. I love your analysis about Frobisher's 1% vs. the bottom 10% as represented by the projects.

"Rusty" butter knife. Nice wordplay, that. And highly appropriate, it seems.

ha, I hadn't even thought about it that way ...

I do see what RTD after and it was extremely well executed. SF is an excellent genre to explore human condition. I was involved and thoroughly gripped from start to finish. I’ve seen fascinating conversations as a result of the series.

However, I found the finale (and the overall tone) unrelentingly dark and, I personally, don't need that in my entertainment.

The overt fascism -- seeing the government justify the selection of those ‘non-productive children’ from poor estates and crap schools was horrific. Not a single elected representative or governmental official protested, they rolled over and showed their bellies. The Milgrim-esque obeying of authority, could we not have seen one solider who was harvesting the school kids actually protesting?

Death -- The death of Ianto was punishment for being gung ho. Torchwood had no plan, did they think that the aliens were simply bluffing? Then again why didn’t the aliens simply beam up a bunch of kids playing outside at playtime (recess) at a few schools across the planet since 12 kids had satisfied them for 40 odd years (don’t get me started on the plot holes). The death of Ianto was purely to break Captain Jack. The SF -clichéd solution of reversing the beam, did not have to use Jack’s grandson as a focal point, that was again about being dark. Killing kids isn’t entertainment.

The Milgrim-esque obeying of authority, could we not have seen one solider who was harvesting the school kids actually protesting?

My husband pointed that out, too; those were some incredibly loyal soldiers! You'd think a few of them would have broken ranks ...

I think that one of the main reasons why I didn't seem to mind the finale as much as a lot of people is because I saw a lot of hope along with the darkness; ultimately the mood that I was left with, at the end, was one of survival against the odds, rather than all bleakness all the time. In spite of the dark parts, we also saw a lot of the best in the human spirit -- Ianto's sister's husband mobilizing the crowd for a battle they can't hope to win, Frobisher's assistant blowing the lid off the government conspiracy, Rhys and Gwen pulling together rather than apart. I'm willing to forgive them for the aliens (who really make NO sense at all) being little more than a plot device for the humans to push back against, because I really liked what they took and did with the human drama against that backdrop.

YMMV, of course ...

YMMV, of course ...

def. and it's always fun to discuss when opinions vary.

Generally, I'm really good at suspending disbelief and getting really involved in what I'm watching to the point of yelling at the telly. I guess that I'm bothered about how easily people capitulated. If this had happened when I was at school, I would have been in one of those buses. That realisation brings the story home.

I saw a lot of hope along with the darkness
Yes, when Ianto's brother-in-law and Gwen's policeman friend laid into the troops, that's was the point where I engaged with the plot and had to fight the tears. The little people that the government was consigning to become alien heroin rose up to fight (pointlessly, though). As somewhat of aside, I want Frobisher's PA and Lois to blow the whistle on the whole affair. The woman that came up with the plan to harvest the unproductive people appeared to be taking over -- as they say those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I felt bludgeoned by Children of the Earth as if I was watching an infomercial on how not to act when pressurised by Evil!People^TM.

I don't know how I feel! I agree that the emotional thrust of the show was very successful writing, even if the plot was on the holey side. And it was good scifi, of the "See, this is a genre to take seriously!" sort. And I still think RTD is a brilliant writer for all his flaws.

At the same time, man, it's cruel to fans, to do that to beloved characters. If this had been an original drama, with original characters, that'd be one thing, but while TW's been dark before, it's never been *this* dark. Building characters for two years, only to do this to them...yowza.

But then, I don't know that creators owe anything to fans. And you couldn't have gotten this emotional resonance with original characters. And I wasn't fanning myself, so it didn't break me; I didn't cry (did shriek at the TV a bit...and laughed hysterically when Ianto died, because I could see the fandom meltdown coming, but...)

And hell, it did more justice to the chars than the end of HP did!

So, in the end...it's not something I'd want to subject myself to again (even though I was loving the first half thinking I would want to rewatch it). But I didn't dislike it, and I agree it was good fiction, and I probably will watch more TW if it comes, even if I'm never going to be able to rewatch the series.

--I do have to say, though, that while I wasn't a Jack/Ianto 'shipper, I'm disappointed that my only supply of established boy/boy pairing on TV has been cut off. Sigh.

Like I commented above, I kinda hope this *is* the end, from a dramatic perspective -- it's a real high note, and there's no way that a future Torchwood would be anything like the first two seasons; it would be essentially a different show that happened to have a couple of characters in common.

If you'd told me at the beginning how it would end (with the team disbanded, their HQ destroyed, most of the characters dead and Jack emotionally broken) I'd never have watched it, but I'm glad I went into it blind, because I don't regret watching it. It was a roller coaster ride, with some really fantastic moments; I loved some of the characters, and, like I commented at

trobadora's LJ yesterday, I think the finale has actually reconciled me to Owen and Tosh's deaths. Before, I couldn't really imagine going back to watch the earlier seasons again; now I'm actually interested in rewatching the "Owen's resurrection" arc (though I think for my fannish self, the series might stop at episode 2x12 -- but I'm okay with that now, and I have a strong ending to satisfy my writerly self).

It's funny just how important it is for me to have a series go out with a strong finish. In general, I'd rather get an emotional two-by-four between the eyes than have a series wobble to a forgettable and merciful end (as so many of them do). And this is a finale I'll remember for a long time.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Nicely put.It was some seriously GOOD scifi. Painful, but good.

While I've been enjoying TW through the years, I can't really say I was ever fully fanning on it, but man does my heart go out to those who were. If I *had* been, this would have killed me!

I think it would have been really hard to take if I'd been heavily fannish about the show; the last time that happened to me was Firefly, and I *still* don't think I've recovered enough from the movie to watch the series again! But since I wasn't watching with a deep level of emotional involvement, I really loved the darkness of it without feeling like I'd been, well, kicked in the head. :D

Yes. I loved it (for certain values of love). It was horrifying, and sickening, and I thought they were going to cop out at the end with some levity but I was wrong. I think in my heart of hearts this is story I wanted to see for Jack: one that acknowledges who he is, where he been, the things he's done. It just... it rang true for me.

And I ended up liking the fact that Gwen was the only one who survived. Really, she was us: the outsider perspective, trying (and in some ways ultimately failing) to bring some humanity to Torchwood. All the others had been there so long they'd lost their way, in various manners, but because of Rhys Gwen was still the ordinary person with a life outside of the job.

I admired Frobisher for having the guts to protect his children in the only way he could, even though it was horrible and even though in the end it turned out not to be necessary. He acted to save them from pain, in the only way he thought possible. Wow. I had to stop the vid at that point and have a cry, before I could watch the end.

I actually liked that the aliens' motivations were so... well, for lack of a better word, human. They were petty, just like us, rather than megalomaniacal. That made it all the more horrifying.

It was so painful to watch, but in a cathartic way that I rarely get from television. The horror of it all skirted a fine line, where it could have easily tipped over into gratuitous cruelty and torture-porn, but to me they got the balance just right.

*nods* I loved that they went there, with all of it. I really felt for Frobisher at the end; he was a social-climbing weasel in some ways, but in the end his government used him and hung him out to dry, and he did what he felt was the only thing he could do to save his family from pain. (It's all the more heartbreaking because it turned out to be unnecessary. But I loved that the show actually had him do that, without pulling back and granting a last-minute stay of execution.)

The horror of it all skirted a fine line, where it could have easily tipped over into gratuitous cruelty and torture-porn, but to me they got the balance just right.

Yes, I absolutely agree! Actually I was really impressed at how, for Torchwood, it was fairly restrained; we didn't get a lot of, for lack of a better term, wallowing -- there was too much going on. And the emotion was even more powerful for being kind of subtle(ish).

Good review. Should be interesting to see when it shows here.

I do feel some concern when people are talking about harming the guy in charge... Russel Davis... whatever his name is.

I get the emotional involvement and saying stuff right when you've seen your favorite character offed, I guess I'm worried about someone who's already disturbed latching onto this and going postal at comic con.

Yeah ... I think anyone who's disturbed enough to be tipped over the edge into doing actual harm by fannish talk on the Internet is already disturbed enough that something else would be the catalyst if this didn't do it. But having said that, I am really bothered by the level of personal vitriole towards the creator that I've been seeing on some people's blogs. I appreciate that fans get deeply invested, but it's a TV show for god's sake. I've had my favorite characters killed off before, and some of my favorite shows, or books I've really enjoyed up 'til the end, have ended in horrible traumatizing ways, but it never made me want to do harm to the person behind the story. I can't really fathom that reaction, to be honest.

For me, it's the other way round: While I can acknowledge that the story arc packed a punch and that it worked on many levels, it's the horrible darkness of it that is going to stay with me, the fact that it leaves us fans with even less than series two did, basically with nothing.

I can appreciate that, even though it left me with actually more of a sense of hope than the end of season two. I guess the idea of the broken remnants of the team still soldiering on was more depressing to me than having them all go off and build new lives for themselves elsewhere. But I might be singing a different tune if I'd been actively fannish about the show. I'm the girl who swore off Joss Whedon for good after the one-two punch of the Buffy finale and the Serenity movie, after all. :D

I really have to agree with you about the series being brilliant. I was as you were thinking about it a lot and can't seem to stop. It was very dark and really fantastic scifi. Even though I cryed a lot after Ianto's death and was very angry I understand somehow why they did it. Or I think I do anyway. If Ianto were still alive I think Jack wouldn't have left like he did. His small team would still be there and maybe sacraficing his grandson wouldn't have been an option for I think they would still have tried to battle the aliens and the government in other ways.

I hope, we will never have to encounter a situation as portrayed in series 3. Because I don't think it would play out very different. As sad as it is but I think our governments would probably have the same conversations.

What you said made me think some more. I really can't remember watching action and scifi were they killed someone beside the important cast that made me feel sad. All the time some poor guys get killed but because its so normal on TV I don't stop to think about it. It doesn't matter. So I really thank you for pointing that out, because I think such an attidute is kinda wrong.

In hidsight I really adore series 3, somehow more than the other ones, because it made me think. Thanks anyway, I always like your commentry on eps.

Thank you! And yeah, I think one of the reasons why I thought the series was such a brilliant punch in the gut was because it's SO plausible ... well, besides the aliens, of course. :D But you can totally see the government doing what they did in this show -- maybe it's just my inner cynicism talking!

What you said made me think some more. I really can't remember watching action and scifi were they killed someone beside the important cast that made me feel sad. All the time some poor guys get killed but because its so normal on TV I don't stop to think about it. It doesn't matter. So I really thank you for pointing that out, because I think such an attidute is kinda wrong.

*nods* And even having said that, from a purely fannish perspective I would still rather see someone else get killed other than my favorites. But I kinda want my shows to remind me every once in a while that the victims are human beings with personalities and loved ones. Ironically, SGA actually used to be pretty good about that in the first couple of seasons -- they were good at humanizing their redshirts and making their deaths mean something. (Notice how many fans still remember Gaul and Abrams, or Griffin, by name ...) They seemed to quit trying later on, though ...

Yeah, I still feel sad sometimes about them, especially Grodin! And of course I don't want the main characters to die but i'd still like to be more.. consious about death in general. I mean, if a stranger dies before my eyes on the street or something I'd be shocked and even mourn him. Hopefully I'll never find out how I'd react but it is different with movies because sometimes there are so many death people but because it isn't a plot element and just for - I don't know - style perhaps? I kinda forget it the instant, because other things are more important, like, hoping the hero doesn't die as well. If a death is gruesum I think about it but more in the sense - urgh they made me watch this! instead of, omg he's dead! Maybe realizing this now gets me to stop and think a bit.

I have only watched Eps 1-3 and sort of got spoilt for the ending... I know it has a lot of darkness... I'm glimpsing at your post as there are some minor details I don't know about. I only know the final outcome but not the how's.

I really enjoyed the first three eps but I have to say that people's comments have really SPOILT it for me. Quite a number on my flist and on twitter have been whinging about it and I've read some comments in places about how it's the "end of gay couples" and RTD hates "Gays on tv" blah blah blah....

I've seriously enjoyed it but since I've been spoilt I now have lost interest in watching 4 and 5. Maybe sometime in the future I'll watch them and cry about it or laugh about it... or just savour it for good writing.

But before that I have to say that just taking it as a standalone (discounting previous seasons) I was incredibly impressed by the opening episode. The suspense, the mystery and all the character interactions wowed me and I kept wantign to see more! I wished I hadn't been spoilt adn I wish that I had the guts to not be swayed by the flist or other people's thoughts or comments.

It's refreshing to read a post from someone who didn't hate it! I was beginning to think that I am the only person who enjoyed it for good story telling...

I guess I'll go back to watching my anime and stop reading other people's posts about shows because lately it feels as if everything I like isn't necessary liked by other people and it does get depressing to read negative comments quite a bit (which is why this post makes me feel relieved!)

Awww, damn, I'm sorry you got spoiled! I've seen other people complaining about that, too. I actually had very few TW reaction posts on my f'list and was able to see the whole thing unspoiled, so I'm quite lucky that way. I also know what you mean about fannish reactions prejudicing you against a show (in either the positive or negative direction). Don't get me started on fandom and what it did to my once-upon-a-time love for the character of Rodney McKay ...

I oughta get back into anime! All my big fandoms used to be anime fandoms, but since SGA I've swung back over into Western fandoms for the most part -- there's surprisingly little overlap between people who are into both, and it's easy to just get drawn into whatever your flist is watching. But seeing

naye squee about One Piece is making me want to go find my old fansubs and pick up some more of the manga to see what's going on ...

I'm sort of more annoyed with myself for being so easily affected by other people's thoughts and emotions!

Ah SGA... I have lost interest in it quite a bit! I don't think it was a conscious effort but I will continue to support it as best as I can eg buying the movies etc!

Ah One Piece... After reading ur comment I went to

naye's journal and was just squeeing comments about her one piece post plus the fact that she mentioned visiting Kyoto... I may leave a comment at her LJ later today but I hope that she's doesn't mind me gate crashing..

I love One Piece with a passion and I won't deny that part of it could be that I'm not as involved in the fandom! I think that of late people in fandoms have swayed my emotions negatively to the point that I either avoid reading the flist or watching the show!

I think I actually gave a little shriek out loud when Frobisher walked into the room with his wife and children, and you saw the gun and knew that the show was really going there.

This was the moment too that I realised we weren't going to be mollycoddled. Horrendous as it was it set the standard for what was to come.

*nods* I'm glad they didn't pull punches, even as dark as it was.

Can I come hide in your journal for a while please? Because this is so much what I think, but I'm too fragile (non-fandom/Torchwood-related, I should add) to handle the fandom at large right now.

*pulls blankets over head* It was superb TV, but I just don't have the mental capacity to defend against people who are hurting and angry right now. There is more in my head, but for now I'm bookmarking this for when I need to think, thanks :)

*joins you under blankets* The little bit that I've poked around in Torchwood fandom just makes me want to flee to a safe place! I do understand that fans lash out when they're hurt and upset, but I really just want to enjoy the show (and a little part of me is, not exactly resentful, but kind of unsympathetic, because I've already gone through having my favorite TW characters killed off, and they didn't get this kind of fannish outcry).

Yeah.

I actually wasn't intending to watch it because I'm generally ambivalent about Torchwood, but one of the channels here had a marathon starting last Saturday afternoon and once I started watching (which might have been episode 3 or 4) I couldn't drag myself away.

In some ways, this final miniseries has made me have to rethink some of the crap I've heaped on Torchwood over the past 2 or 3 years. But, on the other hand, it also went a lot of places that the series had never been before.

Honestly, the three remaining Torchwood characters still didn't really grab my emotions, but the reactions of many of the other characters around them did. Ianto's sister and her family were great examples of the "brilliant ordinary people" that Russell T Davies seems to refer to a lot, but doesn't always deliver in his characters. *cough*Rose*cough* The tragedy of what Jack's daughter had to endure tore my heart out - but unfortunately, once again, John Barrowman didn't really make believe how much of a loss the boy was for Jack. Believed it with Ianto, but not with Stephen. I do have to say that Gwen was considerably less of a tool in these episodes, so kudos for that.

That guy in the beige workcoat, what was his name? He was creepy as! and yet he was spared at the end - which did keep with the message that sometimes good people die and bad people live.

But the secondary, just-for-this-story characters were the ones that really brought this saga home for me. Tragic Clem had me from the get go (possibly helped by the fact he was played by Paul Copley who I've liked in other roles).

And Frobisher was brilliantly played, walking the line between being a government stooge willing to go to far in the name of Queen and Country and being a "good man" put in an impossible position. Yeah, that seen where he closes the door and you hear the gunshots sent shivers up my spine too. (Although, I've also got to admit that the fact that that the PM forced him to sacrifice his kids seemed illogical to me and threw me out of the moment a bit. Why do that to a guy whose been loyal and taken the hits for you? And IMHO there could have been any number of ways that Frobisher could have screwed the PM over at that point so it makes no sense for a politician who's always out for his own best interest to do that.)

But, with the exception of the PM who was a little too cliched as the self-serving politician, the government officials were wonderfully drawn and I also got chills watching them talking about the the incredibly harsh choices they faced and then, as you say, going there!. Your school's performance in government stats may decide whether you live or die? OMFG! And real props to the actress who had deliver those lines! They were HORRIBLE things to have to say, but I couldn't hate her because I could see where she was coming from, selfish as it was. In the same situation would I, could I be any less selfish?

And the plan that Ianto's sister and her husband came up with and then carried out made me want to cheer. I do get that in some ways they were risking the planet, but they were defending their own and also other people's children. I can't hold that against them. And yesh, if my nieces and nephews were at risk, I'd probably try something similiar.

So, yeah, I was shocked, but also hooked on the darkness of this tale with no easy choices and no fairytale ending. In some ways it reminded me of a John Wyndham novel. And that guy was genius!

Edited 2009-07-24 01:06 (UTC)

well, I told you I would post on the Comic Con TW panel. I didn't make it, but my friend (who is the TW fan did). She said most in the panel (which was NOT full by the way, I think upset fans just skipped it totally) were of the - 'it was well written, did you really have to kill Ianto' vein. There were a few who were of the really upset - OMG you killed Ianto types, but they were not the majority of the panel.

RTD's reply was 'it was story purposes' to killing Ianto. And yes, he's really, really dead/dead. It seems there is going to be more TW, but I don't know how or when or who will be on it.

FYI - Being Human was the 2nd half of the panel, and my friend said it looks good and she can't wait to see it (only just starting on BBC America). And they ARE filming S2 now.

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