SGA 5x05

[sholio]

I ... um ... oh, SHOW.

I haven't felt this frustrated and unhappy with an episode since "Misbegotten". Not in a "... it was a bad episode!" kind of way, but more of a "BAD characters, BAD!" kind of way.

There were things I really liked about the episode - lots of little bits I liked (from flying monkeys! to the genuine shock of seeing Elizabeth's name on the screen - I was unspoiled for this one - to Woolsey's seriously awesome negotiating abilities, to Teyla and Elizabeth talking about her baby) but ... OH TEAM NO pretty much sums it up.

I can understand their worries about Elizabeth having been compromised or not really being who she claims to be. Really, I can. These are very valid fears! I would wonder about them if they didn't have them! And, honestly, considering that Elizabeth or pseudo-Elizabeth almost KILLED them at the beginning, she's definitely not quite playing from a full deck of cards anymore, even if this really IS original!Elizabeth and not a 2nd-generation copy (of which I'm far from convinced).

But, just how exactly did we get from doing anything for team/family, to betraying a member of said team/family without even TRYING to fix her and sending her to what basically amounts to her death? Even if she's not fully compos mentis anymore? Even if they're not 100% sure she's herself? Even if, at the end, she kinda seemed to "get" (and accept) what they were doing and played along anyway? They STILL treated her as an outsider throughout the episode, and dealt her a really nasty turn at the end. I was appreciative (and a bit surprised) that they were willing to help as much as they did, and Rodney a) accepting responsibility and b) wanting to fix Elizabeth's situation was a really nice surprise, but I just felt icked at the end, both by the "only good Replicator is a dead Replicator" mentality and by what they did to ELIZABETH, of all people. Especially since the implication at the end is that they recognized, through her willingness to sacrifice herself, that this really was Elizabeth (or at least something/someone essentially similar) and so - THEY JUST LEFT HER THERE?!

... and NOW, the next scene is the one where they send a jumper through to scoop up frozen Elizabeth and bring her back so she can build herself a human body, right? RIGHT?

*sigh*

I am reminded again why I actually like this show better when they don't actually try to deal with the darker implications of their more questionable actions, and just focus on the "dorks exploring the galaxy" side of things.

Comments

[friendshipper.livejournal.com]

Getting all the different opinions on the episode is helping a lot with my overall negativity towards it. I still feel uncomfortable about it, but not as *thoroughly* weirded out as I had been.

The idea that it had been Elizabeth's idea had not even occurred to me, but I see that quite a few people felt likewise.

I'm not sure if I agree that it was pointless, though - we got confirmation of Elizabeth's fate (previously, we'd only had pseudo-Elizabeth's word that she'd died), we got closure (of a sort) on that glimpse of Elizabeth on the ship after the Replicator homeworld was destroyed, and we added to what we know about Replicator capabilities. I don't know about you, but to me, Replicators in subspace - able to travel anywhere, through any barrier, kill people by making their equipment go haywire and recreate bodies for themselves if they have access to the technology to do it - are one of the creepiest ideas this show has come up with so far. Plus, it was a nice touchstone to earlier episodes. (It would've been a nicer touchstone if it hadn't left us pretty much where we were before, but I'm more okay with that now than I was.)

I think my big problem with the episode, even more than the betrayal at the end (which, as you and others have pointed out, may not have been a betrayal at all) is the way that the whole focus of the episode was not on "how can we save Elizabeth, our friend" but "how can we protect ourselves from Elizabeth and the Replicators". While that *is* a legitimate threat, certainly, it left a bad taste in my mouth when it was contrasted against episodes like "Broken Ties", where the whole focus of the episode is on trying to rescue Ronon and get him back to normal, *not* on trying to take him out before he can take them out.

[tipper-green.livejournal.com]

I can see that. But only if you see her as "Elizabeth, our friend." And I didn't. From the start, I saw her as a threat, not as a friend. This Elizabeth had all the memories and skills of the real Elizabeth, but the fact that she risked the team's lives in the beginning, and then again when the other replicators came (that she had invited and perhaps even coached), even killing someone as a result--I didn't see that as being Elizabeth anymore. Moreover, she has all the replicators knowledge and ability (super-smart, super-strong and capable of building herself a body), which sets her apart. Ultimately, though, the real Elizabeth would never have threatened Atlantis the way she did. She was being reckless and she threatened them all, twice, and someone died. To me -- that was not her. So, I could absolutely see the team viewing her not as their Elizabeth, i.e. someone who needs protecting, but as something with Elizabeth's memories and personality, but by virtue of her actions, a threat. From that perspective, the team's actions were the right ones to take. Versus, say, Broken Ties, where that really *is* Ronon who needs saving.

I think too of Rodney and John in Adrift, where Rodney was sure Elizabeth would see things his way, and John believes she would rather have died than pose any threat at all. John's take on Elizabeth was accurate--which is why I don't think, until the very end, he thought it could really be her.

That all being said, my friends didn't like it either. Not because of Elizabeth's sacrifice at the end, but because they thought it was sort of a shoddy ending to Elizabeth's story. Maybe it is. Like the others, I do wish they'd done a VR world somehow. Found a way to trick the replicators that way. Or maybe putting them into the time dilation field from Epiphany. Or...something.

A large part of me wants her to come back though, and, this way, I do think they kept it a little bit open.

Oh, and yes, you're right. The ep wasn't pointless, I was wrong. Besides your totally correct argument above, just the fact that it got me thinking this much shows it wasn't! :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, exactly - I never saw this "Elizabeth" as the real deal, and was right there with the team when it came to mistrusting her. She no longer had her body, her mind worked totally differently, and her personality, goals, and morality seemed to be fundamentally altered - how was she still Elizabeth?

And yes, I didn't see it as an end to Elizabeth's story (if an end to Torri's - it's a bit ironic, between her intro in SG-1 and this, Elizabeth Weir has now been portrayed by three different actresses!) so that didn't bother me. Well, Elizabeth was never a favorite char anyway, but I don't think she's gone yet...

[friendshipper.livejournal.com]

That all being said, my friends didn't like it either. Not because of Elizabeth's sacrifice at the end, but because they thought it was sort of a shoddy ending to Elizabeth's story.

See, that is one of the problems I had with it. I must admit that Elizabeth was never a favorite of mine. (Actually, of all the characters, she's probably the one I liked least.) But, if she'd been a favorite? If they'd tied up Rodney's story that way? I'd be pretty upset! It doesn't seem to be a fair thing to do to her fans. If the show had been a little more clear about Elizabeth choosing to sacrifice herself, I think it would be better -- I can see why people read the show that way, and I'm still on the fence about it myself; I think it supports either reading, and at the very least, I wish the Elizabeth fans had gotten a more heroic send-off for their character.

And I do think her behavior in the episode was OOC for Elizabeth. Actually, the more I thought about it, the more OOC it was -- like I mentioned above, her actions clearly showed that if she was Elizabeth, she wasn't playing with a full deck. But her entire set of priorities appeared to have shifted radically. With all the good she could have done with an indestructible robot body, all the change she could have made, she chose to spend her eternity helping a group of Replicators Ascend? That doesn't seem much like her to me ...

... although, come to think of it, it's not that different from her behavior in "Return", is it? When she was cut off from what she really wanted to do with her life, she basically just ended up sitting on her couch like a lump. It strikes me that her behavior in this episode is essentially a version of that. Unable to be on Atlantis, she doesn't go out and make a new life for herself; she just sits around waiting to Ascend, and becoming more and more obsessed with that goal. I ... actually could see Elizabeth ending up that way, now that I think about it.

just the fact that it got me thinking this much shows it wasn't!

*g* You know, it's often the worst episodes, or the most morally problematic ones, that turn out to be the best for discussion!