Entry tags:
The Magician's Land (done!)
Aaaaahhhhhh I think the last book in the series might be one of my favorite fantasy books ever. It's so good. I'll have to see how it holds up to rereads, but AAAHHHH SO GOOD. I had various things I didn't like about each of the previous books, even though I loved them anyway, but there was NOTHING I didn't like about this book, nothing at all.
I SOBBED at the end. I don't even know WHY! I started leaking at the little plant representing Quentin's childhood optimism, and then it got worse when Quentin decided that he'd outgrown Fillory - he's just so quiet and calm and mature now, it's amazing - and then by the time it turned out that he CAN make his own world now and it's actually a bridge back to Fillory, I just BAWLED. Up to that point I was trying to convince myself they'd all stay in touch now even if it's never spelled out (I mean, Eliot could send messages back to Janet, surely Quentin could find a way too), but now he can come and go whenever he wants, and he and Alice are going to make sure that Earth kids can get in if they need Fillory and Fillory needs them - it's so good. I don't know if this was intentional, because I also love that Fillory never was what I expected at the beginning (a twisted and evil version of a children's-novel dreamworld; it was just a much more complex place than the kids who'd grown up on Fillory expected) but I do feel that the Quentin-ized, reconstructed Fillory is perhaps a little less ... broken, less toxic, or something, than the Fillory that destroyed the Chatwin kids. It's no longer a realm of capricious ram gods, a place that eats children and steals their innocence, but it's still a place of meaning and quests and destiny, wonderful and magical and wild.
I remember![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
kore (I think) in an earlier comment said that magic ends up being a metaphor for creativity in these books, and I LOVED how that was done - how Quentin's first attempt to create his own land resulted in a sterile, nightmarish reflection of the real world, and then at the end the land he makes is beautiful and wild and full of things he didn't even put there, and so much bigger than he ever dreamed, and also (metaphorically speaking) a bridge back to his own childhood. That's so good.
I see that I was wrong and Quentin does essentially become the Chosen One at the end, okay, I get it, but I feel like by this point he's actually earned it; he's not that because there is something uniquely special about him (other than the tenacious ability to keep believing in things, even when the world and his own depressive tendencies tries to pound it out of him) but because he earned it, and at the end he embraces that it's not about being a capital-H Hero but about trying to save the world even if it kills him and he has to give up everything. He is a hero because he throws himself into a boiling fountain to restore a dying world and then has all of godhood at his fingertips and gives it up because he knows it's not his to keep. He stops thinking about what he deserves and starts thinking about what he can do for others, and that's what makes him a hero in the end.
PLUM! She's wonderful! I love her, and I also love resurrected!Alice and her rage and emptiness and slow rebuilding, and I love that Janet got some POV sections and got to be the one to bear witness to Fillory's fall, and that Julia is a beautiful, powerful demigoddess at the end of it all. It is true that the female characters don't often have the spotlight, but it's also Quentin's story and he is the protagonist, so, fair. I felt like they did have their own independent existence apart from him, including the ability to be broken and angry and terrible and spectacular in their own various ways.
I was fully prepared for the separate sets of characters to never actually interact again, or at the very least for a permanent separation at the end (or for Quentin and Alice to never actually know if the Fillory bunch survived or not), so having the last section of the book all teamy with everyone (mostly) in one place was great. Also, that bit where Penny is going to mess with Quentin's brain and everyone goes from being a slightly conflicted group of people with their own issues to a united wall of OH FUCK NO is so so good. And I love that he's turned into a person you can totally see why they'd do that for. (Plum and Quentin were especially delightful - it's so weird to see him through Plum's eyes, when we've been following him since he was a weird, angry, selfish kid, and now Plum looks up to him as a mysterious and enigmatic, powerful magician; it's such a perspective shift.)
But yeah, so I did kind of know that the book ends with Alice and Quentin on Earth (I had osmosed this from TV show reactions; it was the main thing I could remember) but I didn't know if that meant they were cut off forever, or never went back, or never even knew if the others survived, etc. And the ending is the perfect, perfect compromise between "growing up means leaving fairyland" and still having magic in your life as an adult. Quentin and Alice can seek out their own future in our world, and yet go back whenever they want and explore Fillory some more and see their friends, who can also come back whenever they want. I never dared dream the characters would get such a lovely happy-ever-after ending, and one that doesn't feel contrived or saccharine, but well earned. It's perfect.
I SOBBED at the end. I don't even know WHY! I started leaking at the little plant representing Quentin's childhood optimism, and then it got worse when Quentin decided that he'd outgrown Fillory - he's just so quiet and calm and mature now, it's amazing - and then by the time it turned out that he CAN make his own world now and it's actually a bridge back to Fillory, I just BAWLED. Up to that point I was trying to convince myself they'd all stay in touch now even if it's never spelled out (I mean, Eliot could send messages back to Janet, surely Quentin could find a way too), but now he can come and go whenever he wants, and he and Alice are going to make sure that Earth kids can get in if they need Fillory and Fillory needs them - it's so good. I don't know if this was intentional, because I also love that Fillory never was what I expected at the beginning (a twisted and evil version of a children's-novel dreamworld; it was just a much more complex place than the kids who'd grown up on Fillory expected) but I do feel that the Quentin-ized, reconstructed Fillory is perhaps a little less ... broken, less toxic, or something, than the Fillory that destroyed the Chatwin kids. It's no longer a realm of capricious ram gods, a place that eats children and steals their innocence, but it's still a place of meaning and quests and destiny, wonderful and magical and wild.
I remember
kore (I think) in an earlier comment said that magic ends up being a metaphor for creativity in these books, and I LOVED how that was done - how Quentin's first attempt to create his own land resulted in a sterile, nightmarish reflection of the real world, and then at the end the land he makes is beautiful and wild and full of things he didn't even put there, and so much bigger than he ever dreamed, and also (metaphorically speaking) a bridge back to his own childhood. That's so good.I see that I was wrong and Quentin does essentially become the Chosen One at the end, okay, I get it, but I feel like by this point he's actually earned it; he's not that because there is something uniquely special about him (other than the tenacious ability to keep believing in things, even when the world and his own depressive tendencies tries to pound it out of him) but because he earned it, and at the end he embraces that it's not about being a capital-H Hero but about trying to save the world even if it kills him and he has to give up everything. He is a hero because he throws himself into a boiling fountain to restore a dying world and then has all of godhood at his fingertips and gives it up because he knows it's not his to keep. He stops thinking about what he deserves and starts thinking about what he can do for others, and that's what makes him a hero in the end.
PLUM! She's wonderful! I love her, and I also love resurrected!Alice and her rage and emptiness and slow rebuilding, and I love that Janet got some POV sections and got to be the one to bear witness to Fillory's fall, and that Julia is a beautiful, powerful demigoddess at the end of it all. It is true that the female characters don't often have the spotlight, but it's also Quentin's story and he is the protagonist, so, fair. I felt like they did have their own independent existence apart from him, including the ability to be broken and angry and terrible and spectacular in their own various ways.
I was fully prepared for the separate sets of characters to never actually interact again, or at the very least for a permanent separation at the end (or for Quentin and Alice to never actually know if the Fillory bunch survived or not), so having the last section of the book all teamy with everyone (mostly) in one place was great. Also, that bit where Penny is going to mess with Quentin's brain and everyone goes from being a slightly conflicted group of people with their own issues to a united wall of OH FUCK NO is so so good. And I love that he's turned into a person you can totally see why they'd do that for. (Plum and Quentin were especially delightful - it's so weird to see him through Plum's eyes, when we've been following him since he was a weird, angry, selfish kid, and now Plum looks up to him as a mysterious and enigmatic, powerful magician; it's such a perspective shift.)
But yeah, so I did kind of know that the book ends with Alice and Quentin on Earth (I had osmosed this from TV show reactions; it was the main thing I could remember) but I didn't know if that meant they were cut off forever, or never went back, or never even knew if the others survived, etc. And the ending is the perfect, perfect compromise between "growing up means leaving fairyland" and still having magic in your life as an adult. Quentin and Alice can seek out their own future in our world, and yet go back whenever they want and explore Fillory some more and see their friends, who can also come back whenever they want. I never dared dream the characters would get such a lovely happy-ever-after ending, and one that doesn't feel contrived or saccharine, but well earned. It's perfect.
no subject
I'm glad you enjoyed the books! I read the first one when it first came out and was turned off by the cynicism and so didn't read the rest for a long time, and I had some problems with the second book, but I'm glad I finished the series for the third book alone, it's beautiful.
no subject
And now I'm EVEN MORE baffled by the show doing That Thing It Did because it's like the inverse of the books' rising optimism, and it's like, how could you take THAT and end up doing THAT with it??
no subject
Yes, exactly! Like, there were many reasons not to like That Thing, but one of the reasons I love the show is that it's much more team-y than the books, especially once you hit the third season - the characters do a lot of assholish things to each other in season 1 and 2, but they grow and change and forgive each other, and it very much has similar themes to the books about figuring out how to embrace life even when it's terrible and disappointing and random, so trying to sell 'actually everything's okay once you're dead, even though you died young and violently' as a good ending is - tough. (This is actually a line an Underworld character says - like, Q asks, "are my friends going to be okay?" and he answers cheerfully, "sure, once they're down here." Like on one hand, dark comedy, on the other, what the fuck?)
It does sound like season 5 is trying to deal with all of that? But I haven't watched it yet, so - *shrugs*
no subject
And yet it doesn't mean that he's done with magic and adventures - far from it! It's just that this is his (beloved and cherished) past rather than his future.
And TV!Q never is going to have that, which is monstrously unfair! There were certain points throughout the climax of the third book when it did seem that Q sacrificing his life for Fillory was where it was going, and would have made thematic sense, even. But it's so much better that instead he got to be mature and contented and happy, and ended up in a position where he can mentor others and provide a door into Fillory for other angry, unhappy kids. It's such a better ending, and I also can't even imagine what a rug-pull it was for book readers who very naturally assumed the show would follow the books at least to the extent of not completely upending the protagonist's fate.
one of the reasons I love the show is that it's much more team-y than the books, especially once you hit the third season - the characters do a lot of assholish things to each other in season 1 and 2, but they grow and change and forgive each other, and it very much has similar themes to the books about figuring out how to embrace life even when it's terrible and disappointing and random
Yeah, I think the teaminess is one of the things that makes me want to watch the show, because one thing I did wish the second and third books had more of was the characters doing stuff together, and it looked like the show had a lot more of that. At the very least I've seen some neat character stuff in gifs that I'd like to see the real show versions of!
(This is actually a line an Underworld character says - like, Q asks, "are my friends going to be okay?" and he answers cheerfully, "sure, once they're down here." Like on one hand, dark comedy, on the other, what the fuck?)
DDDDDDDDD:
NOPE NOPE NOPE. Especially since, if the Fillorian underworld in the show is like the books, death is really bleak in this world! Or at least, very gray. It's not really the kind of thing where you have happy reunions and more adventures afterwards. Things are just done at that point.
UGH. At least I'm forewarned going in, if I do watch the show! Because I do love the idea of getting more new-ish adventures for these characters and seeing some of the book's settings and so forth. Also, the casting looks really great.
no subject
I still love the show, and will probably re-watch it soon. It's got plenty of issues, but also a lot to enjoy. I'll probably wait and get spoiled for season 5, and then I can relax and watch it.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
They do kind of have a built-in problem with the third book -- if they follow Grossman in doing his version of The Last Battle, even though Fillory is rebuilt and goes on a bit differently, that's kind of the end of the story. But then they also burned through a lot of the book plots in record time, and when the showrunners kind of went beyond that, well, we got season four in its crappiness. It was like the Avengers in the MCU -- I know some people really get off on the "these people are friends and then they're TORN APART" dynamic, but I don't enjoy it at all.
no subject
But it's not, though!! I mean, yeah, if you're looking at a book series, it's clearly what it's all building towards and it's the thematically solid place to end, but TV is inherently more serialized and long-running. You could keep telling stories as long as you've still got the actors and aren't cancelled. I mean, there's SO much you could do with a rebuilding-Fillory plotline, or having them explore some other world (if there's still a version of the Neitherlands in the show), or a major Big Bad threat to the rebuilt Fillory (just going off the books and what little I know about the show, there's no reason why the Monster plot couldn't have happened after the Last Battle instead of before, for example). Or you could have a new generation of kids come through a portal to Fillory and the characters dealing with that.
It was like the Avengers in the MCU -- I know some people really get off on the "these people are friends and then they're TORN APART" dynamic, but I don't enjoy it at all
Yeah, this was something I was absolutely braced for the books to do (I really thought the different storylines were out of sync, and Eliot and Janet were going to be behind the heist that almost got Quentin killed, for example) and then was vastly relieved when the books continued not to do that, even as the characters were split up by circumstance and I wished we'd gotten more of them all in one place; it was still about coming together more than breaking apart.
no subject
no subject
But if you're changing things from the books anyway, you don't have to, though! There's nothing pivotal to the resolution that requires gods to be completely gone at the end - in book terms it works great and gives it a nice punch of "Fillory is very different now", but the TV version could just be something as simple as "yay we stopped the apocalypse" with things being pretty similar after. Or maybe they just THOUGHT they stopped the apocalypse and then the other shoe drops and things are EVEN WORSE the next season, or they reboot the timeline to an earlier point and then have to deal with it all over again. (I mean, how many cycles of near-apocalypse did Supernatural go through, anyway?) Or gods from another timeline seek refuge in this one, or whatever ... I'm sure some of these wouldn't work because of different show cosmology, but I feel like, idk, if they end up writing themselves into a corner because of the apocalypse, it's a corner of their own devising.
(Though caveat due to not having watched the show, etc etc.)
It's really a shame that the show did what it did, because if not for knowing how disappointed/devastated the fans were, I would be RUNNING to watch it now, as much as I enjoyed the books. But I think I'd rather just hold onto Q's happy ending for a while yet.
no subject
Yeah, those would all be fun! Altho I don't know if you want any spoilers for the show or not. But they went a COMPLETELY different direction with what it means to kill gods, and the source of magic, and they did a "Fillory in danger" plotline without the Last Battle aspect at all. There are a couple of episodes with really interesting different timelines, but we don't see much of them, and they've been used more for Replacement Goldfish type stuff. Like SPN, a lot of the characterization is really good, but the plotting is for shit and the themes are pretty confused (especially when it comes to divinity) and then the shitty plotting starts to affect the characterization....which at this point is also in a weird place because everyone's split off into het couples more or less and now there's Jealousy issues. So I was just talking as a long term viewer of the show, and what they seem likely to do with it. Like
I mean, I think your ideas are really interesting! I just don't see how they could be integrated into the show now at all.
no subject
I think I was just impressed in the book with how final the apocalypse actually isn't - it ends in a place that makes you feel as if everyone is poised on the edge of new adventures, all of which would be lovely to read about, or see. And it's a shame that the show isn't similarly opened-ended, or couldn't manage to be.
no subject
Yes, definitely! And Grossman has been.....writing some giant Arthuriana type historical fiction novel for the last six years, or something. //eyeroll (Well, to be fair, and working on the show, and the Alice-centric graphic novel, which was beautiful.) PLUM is such a great character, and so different from the people who had no connection to Fillory other than reading about it, her further adventures would be amazing.
And it's a shame that the show isn't similarly opened-ended, or couldn't manage to be.
The plotting is....weird. They did use a lot of plot from the books, but also changed a lot, and burned through them at a rapid clip (each season is only 13 episodes long, or about half a typical TV show) and then there's original (bad) stuff to the show like a werewolf curse and the fairy realm and so on. Like, in the show, Quentin's father does die and he travels back to his childhood home and there's some stuff about mourning, but it's in a completely different context with some terrible Original Plot thrown in. (Remember how hot SPN was on the possession storyline? Gamble and McNamara went for that in S4 in a MAJOR, terrible way.)
no subject
But Plum works! She's great! I love her outside POV on Quentin and Fillory - actually fairly necessary at this point, since everyone else is so deep into it, and it's so much fun watching Plum try to work out what the hell is going on. I would 1000% read a whole book about Plum and Fillory.
... which I guess, come to think of it, is one thing the books get away with that an ensemble show never could: the way characters rotate in and out all the time. You could easily have another book about Plum, or a book about the hedge witch network, or a book exploring the Neitherlands or another world through the fountains. But you couldn't do that in a TV series because you need all the characters to be in most of the episodes ... unless you were doing something incredibly experimental and risky. The books' narrative style really doesn't work in a TV format, though.
And I have to admit that while *I* would totally be there for it, a whole 'nother book post-apocalypse about the same set of characters actually wouldn't work nearly as well as a book with a mostly-different set of characters taking place in the same universe. And you don't have that luxury on TV.
no subject
LOLyes, it's the famed Cousin Oliver thing. (Boy am I old.) But Grossman draws her so well -- I love how sharp and cynical she is, and how vulnerable and scared of her heritage she really is underneath. And he does a really good job writing women who are good at what they do -- Julia and Alice and Plum are all really talented, and very hard workers.
I would 1000% read a whole book about Plum and Fillory.
I was SO HOPING he would do that. But that's what fanfic is for! lol.
... which I guess, come to think of it, is one thing the books get away with that an ensemble show never could: the way characters rotate in and out all the time. You could easily have another book about Plum, or a book about the hedge witch network, or a book exploring the Neitherlands or another world through the fountains. But you couldn't do that in a TV series because you need all the characters to be in most of the episodes ... unless you were doing something incredibly experimental and risky. The books' narrative style really doesn't work in a TV format, though.
Yeah, I think I've seen that in some European shows? I'm thinking of ensemble shows like I think Skins, or MI5, or Silent Witness, which have gone on for a while and had very different casts. Whereas in the US the emphasis for so long was on getting shows up to the magic number of 100 episodes for syndication, and actors getting long term contracts so they could eat. But with Peak TV/"prestige TV" now bringing the European model of much shorter and even anthology series to TV (Horror Story, American Crime, some other ones) there might be a possibility for shows to be less tied down to one setting or one primary cast. But that's just not how Magicians got set up -- it's in the traditional format, even if it's only 13 episodes.
no subject
.... though actually, I just thought of a regular, somewhat older show that does something vaguely similar - Highlander, of all things! It's not quite as much of a rotating cast as the Magicians books, because the main character is in every episode and a couple of the recurring characters are in at least most of the episodes. But there are several major characters who actually only appear in a few episodes a year (despite being series regulars throughout its run) and the show itself was filmed half in Vancouver and half in France, so there are various plot reasons why the characters move around all the time, falling in and out of touch with each other. It's actually about the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head besides the anthology shows where they're actually playing different characters, or the long-running ones where the cast rotates slowly due to actors leaving - but in this case it was built into the premise of the show.
no subject
no subject
no subject
I feel like the show has a lot more heart than the books, but I also think the second and third books have a lot more - hmm, honesty and love than the first book? Like, it's there in the first book I think, but maybe in a way that that the author is kind of embarrassed by and so very deeply buried. But it shines out more in the next two books. I get why they're not everyone's cup of tea (I actually really don't like Julia's storyline in the books), but there are also parts I very much loved, especially in the third book.
no subject
no subject
Yeah, I think the show treats the women characters much better, generally - even little things like taking away Margo / Janet's spitefulness towards Alice makes a big difference.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
This is not really a series to go into unawares. But I ended up loving the first book far more than I expected, and loving it more and more the deeper I got into it - it almost feels like the author started out trying to write a book that was going to be a cynical deconstruction of Harry Potter/Narnia/portal fantasy and ended up falling back in love with it himself, and by the end it's such a love letter to learning how to grow up without losing the magic of childhood.
no subject