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The Magician King (Magicians book 2)
I continue to lovelovelove these books. There are still things I do not love. But mostly I love. This is one of those series that you can just sink into. Please, no spoilers in comments for book 3 or the ending of the series! (I really do appreciate the enthusiasm in the comments last time! I just, you know ... want to be able to read them.)
If anyone wants content notes for these books, let me know. There is some seriously triggery stuff in these, and some aspects I know a lot of people following me would probably bounce off of.
I think at this point the books are reminding me, more than anything else, of the Dark Tower series. It's not anything specific - they're very very different in nearly all specific ways. But it's a similar sort of "take all your formative influences and put them in a blender and make them your own" kind of mashup, where Dark Tower is what you get when your formative influences are Clint Eastwood movies and horror and epic fantasy, and Magicians is what you end up with when you're coming from a background of Harry Potter and Narnia and D&D and mythology.
Anyway, spoilers follow.
I really like how Grossman leans into the worldbuilding in this book, compared to the first. This one feels much less like a deconstruction and more that he's just going all out with both the Narnia riff and with the urban-fantasy worldbuilding; it's not really deconstructive at all, especially the Fillory scenes. I think another reason why this reminded me of King, a little bit, is because of the eerie grittiness of the safehouses and the magic-under-the-everyday - like in Hearts in Atlantis, when you find yourself looking for signs in hopscotch chalk drawings and shoes on telephone lines; this book makes you want to examine telephone poles and doors for those hints of magic underneath. In general I think it's the real-world urban fantasy aspects of these books that I'm enjoying the most. Even with the slightly darker undertones, Fillory is a little too clean and nice to be entirely to my narrative tastes. But at the same time, I love its boundless magical inventiveness, and really adored the adventuring on the voyage of the Muntjac. (You can tell Dawn Treader is my favorite Narnia book, for similar reasons.)
I'm glad we got Julia's POV and also appreciate that the author is as sympathetic to her as he is (even when it works profoundly against sympathy for Quentin; like their conversation about Quentin basically Nice Guy'ing her all the way through high school) but I also found Julia's sections difficult to get through, at times, for the same reason that some of Quentin's narration was hard to deal with in the first book - profoundly depressed people are profoundly difficult to read about. Those sections cut very close to the bone. Also, I think the timeline-jumping was less distracting for me in the first half of the book when both narrative threads were in the same world, but when things started getting interesting in Fillory it became jarring; I could see why it was that way - presuming the two plot threads were going to collide at the end - but I kept just wanting to get back to theDawn Treader Muntjac whenever the narration would switch, even though I did enjoy the Julia chapters after getting into each of them. I think I would have enjoyed both strands of narration more as separate sections rather than chapter-switching, though.
There's also a bit more of a mythic horror vibe to parts of this book, especially things slowly shutting down in the Neitherlands, and the obvious disaster inherent in meddling with old gods.
I absolutely love the narrative voice in these books; it's so deft and so dryly funny. I think of all the things I didn't expect about the books, which is nearly everything, the biggest surprise is that they're so funny. (I keep wanting to quote things. I have a bunch of pages bookmarked because of particularly clever or funny or evocative bits of narration. It's interesting - I remember seeing quotes from the books beforehand on Tumblr and thinking that the narrative style looked clunky, but actually in context I find myself admiring his clear, brisk, deceptively simple style and taking mental notes.)
Also, I think![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
kore was saying something in the comments to the last entry about the characters not really connecting in the books compared to the show, and I do see that, though I think book!Quentin and book!Eliot are an exception, and they are fucking adorable. It's interesting to me that although they're not a couple in the books, the narrative doesn't intrusively no-homo them at all. They just are. It's hard to say if book!Eliot is romantically/sexually interested in Quentin, since we never get his viewpoint; I don't think Quentin is sexually into Eliot, since his POV is pretty explicit about the people he is into that way, but it's kind of an open question whether he's into him romantically or not. Also Quentin has the emotional intelligence of a sea cucumber, so he probably doesn't know either. Their parting and farewell kiss at the end of the book is really a lovely scene.
It also entertains me that Eliot is just quietly having a classic hero arc in the background which Quentin is largely unaware of.
I like the book's general take on heroism and sacrifice. I like that Quentin finds the last key because of an act of compassion; I like that being a hero means not getting things, but giving things up. I did really wish that his final severing of ties with Fillory had been more of a choice that he made on purpose rather than an accidental side effect of other choices he made.
I have also read the first chapter or so of The Magician's Land (book 3).
MAGIC HEIST MAGIC HEIST MAGIC HEIST
(Though given that Quentin is involved, I expect it will end badly. Poor guy.)
Honestly I think what makes Quentin relatable as a protagonist even when he's being profoundly unlikable is that life just keeps stomping on him so frequently and continually. It makes you want to cheer whenever he does actually get a win. I did really appreciate that he got some time to have some weird magic adventures with the Muntjac before things went horribly and inevitably sideways. I mean, yes, part of Quentin's character arc is learning to see more of the unexpected parts of his life as an adventure rather than just what he wants to see, but it was nice to see him actually get a little of what he wanted, too.
If anyone wants content notes for these books, let me know. There is some seriously triggery stuff in these, and some aspects I know a lot of people following me would probably bounce off of.
I think at this point the books are reminding me, more than anything else, of the Dark Tower series. It's not anything specific - they're very very different in nearly all specific ways. But it's a similar sort of "take all your formative influences and put them in a blender and make them your own" kind of mashup, where Dark Tower is what you get when your formative influences are Clint Eastwood movies and horror and epic fantasy, and Magicians is what you end up with when you're coming from a background of Harry Potter and Narnia and D&D and mythology.
Anyway, spoilers follow.
I really like how Grossman leans into the worldbuilding in this book, compared to the first. This one feels much less like a deconstruction and more that he's just going all out with both the Narnia riff and with the urban-fantasy worldbuilding; it's not really deconstructive at all, especially the Fillory scenes. I think another reason why this reminded me of King, a little bit, is because of the eerie grittiness of the safehouses and the magic-under-the-everyday - like in Hearts in Atlantis, when you find yourself looking for signs in hopscotch chalk drawings and shoes on telephone lines; this book makes you want to examine telephone poles and doors for those hints of magic underneath. In general I think it's the real-world urban fantasy aspects of these books that I'm enjoying the most. Even with the slightly darker undertones, Fillory is a little too clean and nice to be entirely to my narrative tastes. But at the same time, I love its boundless magical inventiveness, and really adored the adventuring on the voyage of the Muntjac. (You can tell Dawn Treader is my favorite Narnia book, for similar reasons.)
I'm glad we got Julia's POV and also appreciate that the author is as sympathetic to her as he is (even when it works profoundly against sympathy for Quentin; like their conversation about Quentin basically Nice Guy'ing her all the way through high school) but I also found Julia's sections difficult to get through, at times, for the same reason that some of Quentin's narration was hard to deal with in the first book - profoundly depressed people are profoundly difficult to read about. Those sections cut very close to the bone. Also, I think the timeline-jumping was less distracting for me in the first half of the book when both narrative threads were in the same world, but when things started getting interesting in Fillory it became jarring; I could see why it was that way - presuming the two plot threads were going to collide at the end - but I kept just wanting to get back to the
There's also a bit more of a mythic horror vibe to parts of this book, especially things slowly shutting down in the Neitherlands, and the obvious disaster inherent in meddling with old gods.
I absolutely love the narrative voice in these books; it's so deft and so dryly funny. I think of all the things I didn't expect about the books, which is nearly everything, the biggest surprise is that they're so funny. (I keep wanting to quote things. I have a bunch of pages bookmarked because of particularly clever or funny or evocative bits of narration. It's interesting - I remember seeing quotes from the books beforehand on Tumblr and thinking that the narrative style looked clunky, but actually in context I find myself admiring his clear, brisk, deceptively simple style and taking mental notes.)
Also, I think
kore was saying something in the comments to the last entry about the characters not really connecting in the books compared to the show, and I do see that, though I think book!Quentin and book!Eliot are an exception, and they are fucking adorable. It's interesting to me that although they're not a couple in the books, the narrative doesn't intrusively no-homo them at all. They just are. It's hard to say if book!Eliot is romantically/sexually interested in Quentin, since we never get his viewpoint; I don't think Quentin is sexually into Eliot, since his POV is pretty explicit about the people he is into that way, but it's kind of an open question whether he's into him romantically or not. Also Quentin has the emotional intelligence of a sea cucumber, so he probably doesn't know either. Their parting and farewell kiss at the end of the book is really a lovely scene.It also entertains me that Eliot is just quietly having a classic hero arc in the background which Quentin is largely unaware of.
I like the book's general take on heroism and sacrifice. I like that Quentin finds the last key because of an act of compassion; I like that being a hero means not getting things, but giving things up. I did really wish that his final severing of ties with Fillory had been more of a choice that he made on purpose rather than an accidental side effect of other choices he made.
I have also read the first chapter or so of The Magician's Land (book 3).
MAGIC HEIST MAGIC HEIST MAGIC HEIST
(Though given that Quentin is involved, I expect it will end badly. Poor guy.)
Honestly I think what makes Quentin relatable as a protagonist even when he's being profoundly unlikable is that life just keeps stomping on him so frequently and continually. It makes you want to cheer whenever he does actually get a win. I did really appreciate that he got some time to have some weird magic adventures with the Muntjac before things went horribly and inevitably sideways. I mean, yes, part of Quentin's character arc is learning to see more of the unexpected parts of his life as an adventure rather than just what he wants to see, but it was nice to see him actually get a little of what he wanted, too.
trying to be better re spoilers! I swear!
I LOVED Muntjac, and Dawn Treader is also my favourite Narnia book! Muntjac is also in the show, treated a bit differently, but what happens is still pretty awesome.
I also found Julia's sections difficult to get through, at times, for the same reason that some of Quentin's narration was hard to deal with in the first book - profoundly depressed people are profoundly difficult to read about. Those sections cut very close to the bone
Oh ghod yeah, it's so fucking tough to read. I was kind of amazed that he was able to dive that deep into her psyche, though, and make the narrative of a depressed young woman very convincing. I haven't seen very many male authors do that (and almost none in genre fiction -- or if they have, I've missed it). He wrote some on Tor.com about how his own experience was actually much closer to Julia's -- he felt like he was spinning his wheels for about ten years or so, temping, feeling on the outside of things, like he just couldn't get started. I think he gets much deeper into Julia's depression, it's almost visceral.
Also Quentin has the emotional intelligence of a sea cucumber
LOLOLOL he sure as fuck does. I think you're right that the book doesn't no-homo them, which is one reason why the relationship really worked in the show. Altho I think book!Quentin is really invested in Alice, to the point where it overshadows nearly everything else, and show!Quentin has friendships and deeper connections. But that emotional tie to Eliot is definitely there in the books to start with.
I did really wish that his final severing of ties with Fillory had been more of a choice that he made on purpose rather than an accidental side effect of other choices he made.
Oh man, that was BRUTAL. I was glad that I read the books so much later than everyone else, because I could just go on to the next one in the series right away. I can't imagine having that ending as a cliffhanger. I was thinking of that ending all through the earlier discussion about losing the portal world and how the repetition of coming back/being shut out keeps intensifying, and is usually based on age/"maturity." But with the ending of book 2, it's not even that! It's just paperwork. (And a big echo of what happens to Julia at the very beginning -- she just can't beat the test, so she's shut out of that world.)
(There was also something going on with the daughter and the woman and the end of the world gateway I always feel like I don't quite get.)
I have also read the first chapter or so of The Magician's Land (book 3).
MAGIC HEIST MAGIC HEIST MAGIC HEIST
(Though given that Quentin is involved, I expect it will end badly. Poor guy.)
I LOVE THE MAGIC HEIST, SFM
IT JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER TOO I think it's some of Grossman's best writing qua writing, in the whole series, really. (The third book imhoe is the best written. Especially near the end.)
I do think you're right that the back-and-forth chapter structure can get a little jarring. I think in that he's riffing not so much on Narnia as Lord of the Rings -- I remember being really impatient with LOTR when the narrative kept cutting away from Frodo and Sam and Gollum, which transfixed me, to all the dull battle stuff (LOL). It's an interesting writing problem because he does seem to really like the structure of the two or three narratives which seem unconnected at first, but crash into each other near the end, but it's also harder to keep that up with longer sections rather than chapters? IDK.
no subject
Same! It's tantalizing because you can almost unpack a ton of mythic significance to all of their scenes and symbolism ... almost. But not quite. I would be really interested to know what he was thinking there. (But will wait 'til I'm done reading before even trying to find out; I am making a lot of guesses about where it's all going and really enjoying knowing as little as I do.)
The second book is a very mythic-feeling book - actually more so than the third (which I'm now about halfway through). I think the mythological aspect of these books is what makes them feel so, for lack of a better word, resonant - he digs under Narnia, under Tolkien, to the myths and folktales that inspired them in the first place. Very Angela Carter, in a way. He's one of those writers who grasps at the bloody/messy underlying layer of these stories, reaching for the aspects that make them resonate with people across the centuries - and it's interesting how different the different books actually are in that area. The first book is really just interacting with Harry Potter and Narnia, the second book starts to deal with them on a modern myths --> ancient myths kind of level, and now it feels like in the third book, he's realized that the second book was maybe a bit Much and toned down the myth layer, but interwoven the stories much more deftly.
For the most part, in this book so far, I haven't actually been getting that LET'S GET BACK TO THE REAL PLOT feeling that kept hitting me in the second (I had the same reaction to Tolkien exactly; I was far more engaged with the Sam-Frodo-Gollum parts, to the point that rereading the books as an adult surprised me how much was actually going on in the other branches of the plot, because I'd forgotten most of it). I think it's working better in book 3 because he's gotten much defter at it, and each new segment connects in some obvious way to the one that just ended, which leads structurally to the next one, as opposed to the way they felt more spliced in book 2. Plus, he's not only got compelling plot happening in each story branch, but it's compelling in a very similar way, which I think is one of the things that makes interwoven plots with multiple narrators fall flat a lot of the time - I think the switches back and forth between, say, a small-scale story with just two characters to a big epic plot, for example, jars because you settle into the narrative style of one, then jump to another, regardless of what is actually happening each. And he's juggling more than two narrators here, and doing it well, including one major one who was introduced for this book alone, but still works! (I'm definitely taking notes here; it's really well done.)
I was kind of amazed that he was able to dive that deep into her psyche, though, and make the narrative of a depressed young woman very convincing. I haven't seen very many male authors do that (and almost none in genre fiction -- or if they have, I've missed it). He wrote some on Tor.com about how his own experience was actually much closer to Julia's -- he felt like he was spinning his wheels for about ten years or so, temping, feeling on the outside of things, like he just couldn't get started. I think he gets much deeper into Julia's depression, it's almost visceral.
Yeah, I think you linked to that in the last comment thread, before I noped out of it. I agree, it's very visceral and true to her experiences, in a way that's extremely rare for male authors - there are a few male authors who write female POV very well, but this is a very rare female POV to see done like this.
These are very immersive books in general. I'm going slower than I often do when I'm this into something, and that's because I have to, because there's just so much in each chapter that needs to be mentally unpacked (insights about narrative and people, creative worldbuilding, relationship stuff) that I keep having to stop and letting it unpack a bit before going on. The first book was FAR simpler, not just in structure but in how much you needed to absorb while reading. It's been awhile since I've read something like this. (I mean, Gatsby is also like that to a degree; it's something you get WAY more in litfic than in genre fiction. The general experience of reading this book makes me think of going through something like, god, I don't know, East of Eden or that kind of thing, the way it's so much bigger than you can really take on board at once, so you just fall into it and have to keep extricating yourself to breathe for a while.)