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I think it's interesting what hooks people on a show and what doesn't. I'm watching Luke Cage now (I'd saved that one for last because I knew Orion wanted to see it, but he's never gotten around to it, so you snooze, you lose, Orion XD). But as it turns out, my read on this show was pretty accurate: it's an Orion show, not a ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sholio type of show.
Objectively it's really well written, I recognize that. And I LOVE Luke, Misty, and Claire. But as of about 6 1/2 episodes into it, I'm just "meh" on everything apart from them.
Part of it is that a serious, gritty show about corrupt cops and mobsters is not precisely what I want right now; I'm more into candy-colored escapism given the current state of the world. But honestly I think the biggest reason why the show isn't really snagging me that hard is because I fall for character relationships, not individual characters. You can hook me hard on a mediocre show or one in which I haven't really learned the characters yet by having them be intense about each other. Iron Fist, despite being objectively a worse show than Luke Cage -- I completely recognize this! -- hooked me from the beginning by having really intense relationships between the characters (Danny + the Meachum siblings, Danny and Colleen, Colleen and Bakudo, Ward and his dad, Danny and Davos ...).
And I basically love that Luke Cage EXISTS. Like, it's a great show, I love that it doesn't have a white character in sight and that's just no big deal, I am really enjoying the music and the aesthetic and the characters individually. But ...
Luke Cage just kind of ... doesn't have those intense relationships that I crave. It's got snappy dialogue and gorgeous directing and solid plots, but so far, 6 1/2 eps in, the closest and most emotionally intense relationships, as well as most of the interaction, between relatable characters all involved people who died (Luke and Pops, Misty and her awful partner, Luke and Reva). Claire and Luke are friends, but in a kind of loose, "drifting in and out" way. Misty and Luke have barely interacted and she's been too distracted with other things to really get a good, intense "cop vs. criminal they're obsessed with" kind of vibe going on.
Like, the show is objectively really good, but it's not emotional enough for me. While Iron Fist had emotional intensity out the wazoo.
... and by that, I don't mean the characters in Luke Cage aren't emotional on their own. They really are! The whole thing with Luke's flashbacks to prison and meeting his wife was so wrenching that I had to skim some of it because I couldn't stand watching him be so beat down and trapped.
But it wasn't really about making connections to people in the present, and whenever they jumped back to the present, everyone involved were people he didn't really have the same kind of emotional intensity he had in the past; it was just ... sad.
I've complained elsewhere that I felt like Iron Fist skimmed a lot of setup it should have had to let you know who the characters were, and just jumped straight into having the characters do stuff. But I feel like Luke Cage is ALL setup - like 6-7 episodes into the show, we're still just kind of getting the background for the relationships (and relationship intensity) the characters are eventually going to have. I don't think this would bother me at all if there was just ONE really compelling, emotionally intense relationship that could keep me hooked (which is basically what Iron Fist did - even before I had a chance to get attached to the characters per se, the intensity between the siblings and Danny's attempts to connect with Colleen kept me watching).
But the most intense relationships on Luke Cage so far, like I said, have all involved the main characters with people who've died. There's Cottonmouth and Mariah, but I find that I'm not really that interested in criminals who don't have even a hint of something redeeming about them - for having emotional feelings about, I mean. Again ... Iron Fist ... there are a couple of characters in that show who are pretty awful (Ward and Joy, for example, or Bakudo) but they have a lot of redeeming features too - like, they're doing bad things, but they also do good things and have people they love. I would watch an entire show about Bakudo even though he's terrible, because he's also really fascinating and I would love to see more of his students and his world and his relationship with Colleen. But these people are just objectively terrible. It's why I wasn't that into the Fisk/Vanessa relationship in Daredevil either (in an emotional, shippy kind of way, I mean), because they were just awful people with NO redeeming qualities aside from loving each other, and not people who waffled back and forth across the hero/villain line like several of the ones in Iron Fist do.
So yeah, idk. I think I'm down to the point on Luke Cage where I'm probably just going to start skimming for Luke/Misty and Luke/Claire moments (and Claire and her mom!), because I really DO love those characters and want to see more of them, but overall I kind of feel like it's Not My Kind Of Show even though I totally see why it's other people's kind of show; it's the same reason why I never really got into things like Breaking Bad and House of Cards and that sort of show, either.
And I'm talking about this not to talk down Luke Cage and talk up Iron Fist, but I just think it's interesting because of what makes me fall for a show, or not -- and it's not necessarily anything to do with the writing or even the protagonists (I mean, as a character, I love Luke whereas I merely like Danny, and Luke's actor is amazing), but all other issues aside, emotional intensity of certain types is about as close to a bulletproof narrative kink as I have. And watching these two shows back to back is like a case study in quality writing that pulls back from the really iddy, emotional stuff, vs. a show that is objectively not so great but is a hammerblow to the feels. And feels win. >__>
(And the thing is, I know it'd be the other way around for plenty of people, e.g. Orion. I've watched enough stuff with him by now to know that he would find the emotional OTT-ness of Iron Fist dull and uncomfortable, and prefer the lower intensity/higher plot ratio of Luke Cage. Whereas I'm the other way around.)
Anyway, after I finish LC, Defenders is next up and I'm really looking forward to it. :D
sholio type of show.Objectively it's really well written, I recognize that. And I LOVE Luke, Misty, and Claire. But as of about 6 1/2 episodes into it, I'm just "meh" on everything apart from them.
Part of it is that a serious, gritty show about corrupt cops and mobsters is not precisely what I want right now; I'm more into candy-colored escapism given the current state of the world. But honestly I think the biggest reason why the show isn't really snagging me that hard is because I fall for character relationships, not individual characters. You can hook me hard on a mediocre show or one in which I haven't really learned the characters yet by having them be intense about each other. Iron Fist, despite being objectively a worse show than Luke Cage -- I completely recognize this! -- hooked me from the beginning by having really intense relationships between the characters (Danny + the Meachum siblings, Danny and Colleen, Colleen and Bakudo, Ward and his dad, Danny and Davos ...).
And I basically love that Luke Cage EXISTS. Like, it's a great show, I love that it doesn't have a white character in sight and that's just no big deal, I am really enjoying the music and the aesthetic and the characters individually. But ...
Luke Cage just kind of ... doesn't have those intense relationships that I crave. It's got snappy dialogue and gorgeous directing and solid plots, but so far, 6 1/2 eps in, the closest and most emotionally intense relationships, as well as most of the interaction, between relatable characters all involved people who died (Luke and Pops, Misty and her awful partner, Luke and Reva). Claire and Luke are friends, but in a kind of loose, "drifting in and out" way. Misty and Luke have barely interacted and she's been too distracted with other things to really get a good, intense "cop vs. criminal they're obsessed with" kind of vibe going on.
Like, the show is objectively really good, but it's not emotional enough for me. While Iron Fist had emotional intensity out the wazoo.
... and by that, I don't mean the characters in Luke Cage aren't emotional on their own. They really are! The whole thing with Luke's flashbacks to prison and meeting his wife was so wrenching that I had to skim some of it because I couldn't stand watching him be so beat down and trapped.
But it wasn't really about making connections to people in the present, and whenever they jumped back to the present, everyone involved were people he didn't really have the same kind of emotional intensity he had in the past; it was just ... sad.
I've complained elsewhere that I felt like Iron Fist skimmed a lot of setup it should have had to let you know who the characters were, and just jumped straight into having the characters do stuff. But I feel like Luke Cage is ALL setup - like 6-7 episodes into the show, we're still just kind of getting the background for the relationships (and relationship intensity) the characters are eventually going to have. I don't think this would bother me at all if there was just ONE really compelling, emotionally intense relationship that could keep me hooked (which is basically what Iron Fist did - even before I had a chance to get attached to the characters per se, the intensity between the siblings and Danny's attempts to connect with Colleen kept me watching).
But the most intense relationships on Luke Cage so far, like I said, have all involved the main characters with people who've died. There's Cottonmouth and Mariah, but I find that I'm not really that interested in criminals who don't have even a hint of something redeeming about them - for having emotional feelings about, I mean. Again ... Iron Fist ... there are a couple of characters in that show who are pretty awful (Ward and Joy, for example, or Bakudo) but they have a lot of redeeming features too - like, they're doing bad things, but they also do good things and have people they love. I would watch an entire show about Bakudo even though he's terrible, because he's also really fascinating and I would love to see more of his students and his world and his relationship with Colleen. But these people are just objectively terrible. It's why I wasn't that into the Fisk/Vanessa relationship in Daredevil either (in an emotional, shippy kind of way, I mean), because they were just awful people with NO redeeming qualities aside from loving each other, and not people who waffled back and forth across the hero/villain line like several of the ones in Iron Fist do.
So yeah, idk. I think I'm down to the point on Luke Cage where I'm probably just going to start skimming for Luke/Misty and Luke/Claire moments (and Claire and her mom!), because I really DO love those characters and want to see more of them, but overall I kind of feel like it's Not My Kind Of Show even though I totally see why it's other people's kind of show; it's the same reason why I never really got into things like Breaking Bad and House of Cards and that sort of show, either.
And I'm talking about this not to talk down Luke Cage and talk up Iron Fist, but I just think it's interesting because of what makes me fall for a show, or not -- and it's not necessarily anything to do with the writing or even the protagonists (I mean, as a character, I love Luke whereas I merely like Danny, and Luke's actor is amazing), but all other issues aside, emotional intensity of certain types is about as close to a bulletproof narrative kink as I have. And watching these two shows back to back is like a case study in quality writing that pulls back from the really iddy, emotional stuff, vs. a show that is objectively not so great but is a hammerblow to the feels. And feels win. >__>
(And the thing is, I know it'd be the other way around for plenty of people, e.g. Orion. I've watched enough stuff with him by now to know that he would find the emotional OTT-ness of Iron Fist dull and uncomfortable, and prefer the lower intensity/higher plot ratio of Luke Cage. Whereas I'm the other way around.)
Anyway, after I finish LC, Defenders is next up and I'm really looking forward to it. :D
no subject
I'm in a headspace right now where I'm perfectly happy to tolerate poor storytelling if it's delivering me a solid punch in the feels, which Iron Fist is totally doing for me -- GIVE ME FEELS, she said *grabbyhands* -- but ... yeah. I totally understand not being in a mental place where you can deal with it.
And honestly I think headspace makes a HUGE difference, maybe even to the point of being the biggest determining factor in "enjoy" vs. "not enjoy", because I could see myself enjoying Luke Cage quite a lot at a different point in my life, just ... it's really, really not what I want right now.
no subject
But if I'm NOT getting that charge, then my brain is in the most analytical craft-based hyper-critical space ever and it's NOT FUN.
no subject
This is actually one reason why I try to avoid spoilers when I know I'm going to want to watch something! There's something about not knowing what happens next that helps my brain shut off the critical lobe. But if I have some idea of what's coming, and ESPECIALLY if it's either been phrased to me in a "you must like this thing!" kind of way or I already have some anticipation that I "should" be reacting a certain way (either because I've made up my mind beforehand about the character dynamics based on spoilers/fannish osmosis, or because I can tell that the narrative is attempting to push me in a certain direction) my heels dig in and I get super-critical. (You think I'll like that? WELL IT'S NOT SO GREAT!) It's ruined my enjoyment of some things in the past that I later liked just fine when I went back and watched them years later when the initial "do not want" aspects had passed. It is a very annoying thing that my brain does. >__>
no subject
That is super interesting because my brain does exactly the opposite: if it's emotionally charged and I don't know what's going to happen it's like "no sorry we are firmly instating a clinical and analytical distance here you are definitely not allowed to feel anything until we've thought it over you think we're just going to let you wander out there and be emotionally affected by things?"
Because if I'm just blithely going along Feeling Things and then something pings [wrong] (not even....bad? Or upsetting? As such? But just hits a certain gut sense of "dnw" or "this is artificial manipulation by the author" or whatever) it's REALLY UPSETTING whether I want it to be or not.
Only with a very few creators these days do I have sufficient confidence that they're not going to do THAT, enough to be able to both take in a story unspoiled AND with the analysis brain muted. Mostly I get one or the other.
no subject
In general I think my brain needs that "don't know what happens next!" to immerse itself, but I COMPLETELY get doing the opposite thing, and for pretty much that reason, since there are some canons/creators (an increasing number of them, honestly) for which I need to spoil myself for certain things in order to get proper immersion.
no subject
Me.
I hate spoilers for this exact reason. My mind always comes up with some way of interpreting this thing I know exists that I "must like" and when it actually happens, instead of enjoying it, I end up comparing it to my headcanon and...death to enjoyment.
Must. Avoid. All. Spoilers.
no subject
(It's kind of hilarious/sad how often you see fandom collectively doing this - with just about every new installation of an ongoing canon that comes out, honestly. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with seeking out spoilers - I know a number of people who do it because it enhances their enjoyment - but it's a really common thing in a lot of fandoms to spoil themselves like whoa and write tons of fic about the New Thing/New Character and then flip their lid because the real version isn't like the fandom version. Or just get collectively pissed about something that hasn't even happened yet and might not even happen that way at all!)