Okay, FINE, I'm not even done yet

[sholio]

Due to my newfound appreciation of Hawkeye, I've been browsing his tag on Tumblr, which caused me to stumble across this. My main reaction is slightly bitter laughter, because MCU!Hawkeye is so obviously a different character from Fraction!Hawkeye that running across comics-esque characterization for him in MCU fanfic has become one of my biggest peeves and often an insta-backbutton thing. If this movie results in a lot less Fraction!Hawkeye in MCU fic, I will be SO GLAD.

Comments

[recessional]

AHAHAHA NOW YOU SHARE MY PAIN.

Ahem.

I HATE the bleedover. Haaate.

[sholio]

Oh lordie, Fraction!Hawkeye in fic bugs me SO BAD. I assume people do it to that extent because there is so little actual canon to use for him -- in the first movie, we only got a few scenes where he wasn't mind-controlled, and absolutely nothing about his personal life. (BUT HE'S SO OBVIOUSLY A DIFFERENT CHARACTER! Fandom, why.) I'm hoping this movie will result in lots of farm!Clint fic and a whole lot less incompetent, tracksuit-mafia-fighting Clint.

[recessional]

HE IS SO OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT. Even the minute of Thor and the Avengers stuff showed him totally different! Plus like the SLIGHTEST thought of the requirements of the MCU-verse.

[gwyn]

Awww. I love Fraction Hawkeye, but I like the mildly snarky MCU Hawkeye too, and I like fusing the two aspects of the character. I mean, it's not like we have a lot to go on, you know? I don't write him as a loser or professional disaster human, though, so maybe I'm not using that much Fraction... He's so wildly different in different writers' hands in the comics that it's almost as hard to get a bead on him there.

[sholio]

Well, I don't tend to mention this because I know it's popular and I certainly don't want to make anyone feel bad about liking it! FWIW, it's mostly the "human disaster" version that I object to in the MCU, and I don't recall running into that in your fic. The main reason why it gets to me is OOC-ness (for the MCU version) combined with being a little bugged by the fanon nature of it, with EVERY fic giving him a very similar backstory/off-duty life. But the comics are really all people had to go off, prior to this movie, for his backstory, so I don't really blame writers for using them. (And I do enjoy the Fraction comics; it's just SUCH a different take on him that combining the two is kind of jarring for me. Idiosyncratic reaction, though, I know!)

And that's a lovely Hawkeye icon you have there! I'm still a little weirded out that I now love Hawkeye as much as I do, because he's never been a favorite of mine prior to this movie, but apparently I'm a total sucker for the competence + snarky humor + family feels combination. :D

[gwyn]

I didn't know much about him as a character until I saw him in Thor--I knew of him vaguely and had seen him in the Winter Soldier story arcs, but I got out of the habit of reading general superhero comics as a kid and so he wasn't really on my radar. But between his comment about rooting for Thor and then the "You and I remember Budapest very differently" line, I fell in love with him (I'd been a fan of Renner's for a while, which helped). But it was really his friendship with Nat that sealed the deal for me.

I have, though, a huge soft spot for people who are super competent at their work, but kind of terrible at relationships/being a human, and so the Fraction stuff made me laugh and laugh. And I can totally get where you're coming from about that disaster human stuff. It's a kink of mine, but I know it's not for everyone. OTOH, I'm looking forward to seeing Clint being the sensible guy in AoU, even though the family story has me grinding my teeth from everything I've heard (for my own reasons, not for shipping reasons).

The thing that bugs me most, though? Is totally selfish--I was 1/3 into a story from Clint's POV about Bucky and Steve that's sort of a Big Eden fusion and Bucky and Clint being bros, and it has a few Fractiony elements to his character and takes place mostly in the tower and…now I feel like it's so wildly AU that I don't even know if I can do it. I have a hard time veering from canon, and I just hate Joss so much already and now he's fucked up my canon even more…I don't know. Maybe I'll feel different later, but right now it just feels like no Clint is the right Clint and I don't know what to do.

[sholio]

Awwww, that's rough, regarding the story. :( It's happened to me a lot writing for open-canon TV shows, since canon changes so fast -- I got caught out on a lot of between-season stories that I never finished before the new season started and undid everything I was writing about. :P I got lucky in this case because canon doesn't actually do TOO much to my Sam-Bucky WIP -- it's still somewhat non-canonical, but it doesn't completely redo the character relationships to the point where it's going to be impossible to finish.

I wonder if it would work to just hold off on watching the movie 'til you finish your story? I'm sure that people will still read and enjoy it, even if it's AU, and it might be easier to write if you can manage to hold the new canon at bay for awhile. ('cause, yeah, I tend to work within canon too, and therefore it's easy for changes in canon to completely throw me off ...)

I absolutely loved Clint in the new movie, though, so it's also possible you might find fresh inspiration and a new direction to tackle your story from!

[monanotlisa]

I love Fraction!Hawkeye, and by love I mean "have an entirely bewildering crush on," because in real-life I would probably roll my eyes and tell him to take a shower and a nap. Not necessarily in that order.

But I completely agree he and MCU!Clint are incredibly different characters -- looks, personality, backstory and even present!story; we have no proof of the Bed-Stu living situation or of course Katie-Kate in the MCU (much as I would have loved that, but we probably have to wait for the reboot featuring Kate Bishop and Clint Barton as Hawkeye Squared in 5 years).

The one transfer that I DO like seeing is Clint being deaf in MCU canon too. Beyond the comics-versus-cinematics strife, it's a controversial topic because it forces authors and readers to deal with disability, not often well, but there are so few people with disabilities in any fictional work that I'll gladly take any reshuffling of canon on that point.

[delfinnium]

I don't know if he was obviously deaf in MCU? Did he mention it? D: I thought i was watching pretty closely but maybe the version that came out in my country cut it? D:

ETA: Unless you meant the transfer in FANON.

[sholio]

They mean fanon, I think! I'm pretty sure he's not deaf in MCU canon. (Funny, I read it as fanon the first time; I didn't even notice the comment said canon until you pointed it out ...!)

[delfinnium]

ah right! I read it as canon and was like But he's not deaf???? DID THEY CENSOR IT IN THE FILM?!

and then realised maybe they meant fanon not canon.

I do like that idea transferring into MCU fanon though, because there's no reason not to be deaf and functioning perfectly well too.

[monanotlisa]

Oops, fanon. :) It was late typing this.

[krait]

Well, my brain went straight to "reasons why one might need a boomerang arrow" and came up with two very different options. (You might call one the Fraction!option and the other the MCU!option, even.)

1. Need that MacGuffin the villain is holding? Use the Boomerang Arrow to shoot it out of the villain's hand and right to yours! (Attach a clip or magnet to the arrow to snag the MacGuffin.)

2. Facing more enemies than you have arrows? Use the Boomerang Arrow and you will never run out of ammo! (Aim for throats or joints - small areas that won't stop the arrow or slow its flight too much.)

[sholio]

These are excellent uses! I could see either of them working in either universe, really. (See, Kate, don't mock the boomerang arrow!)

[krait]

Hee, yes, I like that it can be used to get around the obvious problem with archery as an offensive, i.e. that one can't carry nearly as many arrows as bullets. And it nicely highlights one of the things that archery can do and bullets can't, too!

I bet Kate would change her mind about the boomerang arrow pretty quickly in either situation. :D

[muccamukk]

I'm hopeful that a distinct version will start showing up in movie characterisation, but I wouldn't bet on it. We've been running on fanon since Thor.

[sholio]

Ha, yeah, and I can see how it would become thoroughly entrenched after having very little to work from for so long.

This movie gave excellent Hawkeye, though!