I actually do like Charming/Snow (though not David/Mary Margaret, because - for me, at least - it's one thing to cheat and then admit to it but it's something else entirely to cheat and then keep it a secret), but a lot of that's because of things that are revealed later on in Season One.
... though, honestly, that doesn't stop me from 'shipping Red/Snow as well.
I'm starting to see more of Red and Snow's friendship in the other world, and they are awesome. (Actually, Red is awesome all the way around; I basically love everything about her.)
And yeah, I don't have a problem with Snow/Charming except as incidental side taint from the way I feel about their relationship in the other universe, but the cheating thing -- at this point (I'm a few more episodes along now) I still view David as such a giant pile of fail that I can't stand him, to the point where it's making it difficult for me to get through any scene in which he appears. Not that Mary doesn't have to share the blame too (it takes two to cheat, after all) but all his wishy-washy self-justifications about not wanting to hurt anybody --GAH. DAVID, YOU ARE A WRETCHED HUMAN BEING. I know it's slightly hypocritical that I really like characters like Regina and Gold who have done much worse things, but, well, they're supposed to be assholes; they're both Magnificent Bastards, but David is just a small-b bastard and no one seems to realize it.
And Red just keeps getting more and more awesome as the show progresses. ♥ How far along are you now? I assume you've at least made it through 1x15, based on this comment?
Exactly. *nods* If he had just told Kathryn something along the lines of "I'm sorry but this just isn't working and we both know it. I've met someone else." then it wouldn't have bothered me nearly so much. But, no, he's trying to have the best of both worlds, and that's just not how that works. Unless they're both aware of the situation and don't have a problem with an open relationship, which is very much not the case in this situation, you can have Mary Margaret or you can have Kathryn. You can't have both of them.
GAH, YES. And no one seems to REALIZE it, even now that the cheating is out in the open (I'm up to that point in the story now), which is what really infuriates me about that wretched storyline ... that David is constantly let off the hook for being a CHEATING ASSHOLE. There is so much that I love to bits about this show -- that there are so many wonderful female characters, and so many of the plots are almost entirely women interacting with other women, which I love! But then there are storylines and themes in the show that just make me want to chuck it out the window.
Mary Margaret/David never really gets any less painful, but I try to assume The Curse, It's the Curse! because Charming actually seems okay. (It would be easier to swallow if the narrative didn't keep letting David off the hook. It's probably a good thing the show had a lot of other things going for it in S1.)
Heh, yeah ... I guess that I can see this being the case, because some of the other characters also seem to have lost touch with their strengths in the other world (both Red and Snow seem to be missing significant amounts of badassery and self-confidence, Jiminy Cricket is basically rubber-stamping Regina's decisions, and so on). But it's the "letting him off the hook" thing that really gets to me, because it seems as if the narrative itself excuses David for his assholishness, and I really can't stand that.
I think a common reaction is "Snow/Charming yes, Mary Margaret/David no." That was definitely how my mom and I felt about it.
I saw some defense of David, claiming that the curse made him be such a wishy-washy cheater, but that never made it better for me. "The curse turned him into an asshole" doesn't make me like the guy better.
OUaT does some things quite intelligently, but the reliance on "true love" over characterization or logic bugs me. I hate the whole concept of true love in the sense of "one of your relationships is objectively more important than all the others," anyway, and then the show goes and makes it official. (No, show, David and Mary Margaret having "true love" does not justify him continually cheating on Katherine and stringing both women along.)
I think a common reaction is "Snow/Charming yes, Mary Margaret/David no." That was definitely how my mom and I felt about it.
This seems to be my general flist consensus, yes. *g* It's very nice to know that I'm not the only one!
And, um, a big YES to everything else in your comment! I can imagine the curse having stripped away Charming's integrity and strength (as it did, say, Red's self-confidence), but that doesn't make him likable, and he may have already passed the point of no return for me. I have to say that at this point I'm deriving a lot of satisfaction from watching bad things happen to him. (I just watched the episode where Mary is in jail and throws him out for not believing in her -- 1x16, I think? Which is also an episode in which Snow punches Charming in the face! Good for her, I say ...)
And yeah, the "true love" thing is really bothering me; it's probably the thing I like least about the show, because yeah, I dislike the concept in general, and OUaT seems to be doing my absolute least favorite rendition of it -- the whole "one relationship above all others, put your life on hold until it comes along" thing. There is plenty I like about the show, and I love some of its subversions of class fairy-tale dynamics (Red and the wolf! ♥), but the way they handle man-woman relationships is just, gah ...
I quit watching the show because my hatred of David was intense enough to overshadow my enjoyment of everything else. Unrepentant cheating is just a huge squick of mine.
agh, yeah, I think that is definitely a valid decision! So far, I'm able to overlook it because there's so much else I love about the show (so many women, being friends and being awesome!) but I've reached the point where I hate David so much that I just kind of "la la la" through his scenes, especially any scenes he has with Mary.
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... though, honestly, that doesn't stop me from 'shipping Red/Snow as well.
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And yeah, I don't have a problem with Snow/Charming except as incidental side taint from the way I feel about their relationship in the other universe, but the cheating thing -- at this point (I'm a few more episodes along now) I still view David as such a giant pile of fail that I can't stand him, to the point where it's making it difficult for me to get through any scene in which he appears. Not that Mary doesn't have to share the blame too (it takes two to cheat, after all) but all his wishy-washy self-justifications about not wanting to hurt anybody --GAH. DAVID, YOU ARE A WRETCHED HUMAN BEING. I know it's slightly hypocritical that I really like characters like Regina and Gold who have done much worse things, but, well, they're supposed to be assholes; they're both Magnificent Bastards, but David is just a small-b bastard and no one seems to realize it.
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Exactly. *nods* If he had just told Kathryn something along the lines of "I'm sorry but this just isn't working and we both know it. I've met someone else." then it wouldn't have bothered me nearly so much. But, no, he's trying to have the best of both worlds, and that's just not how that works. Unless they're both aware of the situation and don't have a problem with an open relationship, which is very much not the case in this situation, you can have Mary Margaret or you can have Kathryn. You can't have both of them.
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I saw some defense of David, claiming that the curse made him be such a wishy-washy cheater, but that never made it better for me. "The curse turned him into an asshole" doesn't make me like the guy better.
OUaT does some things quite intelligently, but the reliance on "true love" over characterization or logic bugs me. I hate the whole concept of true love in the sense of "one of your relationships is objectively more important than all the others," anyway, and then the show goes and makes it official. (No, show, David and Mary Margaret having "true love" does not justify him continually cheating on Katherine and stringing both women along.)
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This seems to be my general flist consensus, yes. *g* It's very nice to know that I'm not the only one!
And, um, a big YES to everything else in your comment! I can imagine the curse having stripped away Charming's integrity and strength (as it did, say, Red's self-confidence), but that doesn't make him likable, and he may have already passed the point of no return for me. I have to say that at this point I'm deriving a lot of satisfaction from watching bad things happen to him. (I just watched the episode where Mary is in jail and throws him out for not believing in her -- 1x16, I think? Which is also an episode in which Snow punches Charming in the face! Good for her, I say ...)
And yeah, the "true love" thing is really bothering me; it's probably the thing I like least about the show, because yeah, I dislike the concept in general, and OUaT seems to be doing my absolute least favorite rendition of it -- the whole "one relationship above all others, put your life on hold until it comes along" thing. There is plenty I like about the show, and I love some of its subversions of class fairy-tale dynamics (Red and the wolf! ♥), but the way they handle man-woman relationships is just, gah ...
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