sholio | Oh, right! SPN 3x02

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episode reactions:spn

Oh, right! SPN 3x02

Since I can't sleep, just a few random comments about the latest Supernatural...

Hubby and I now have a running joke that there is nothing creepier than a little girl, since he's been playing video games with creepy little psycho girls in them, too (Bioshock and ... I forget the name of the other one).

This episode really aced the creepy factor for me, though -- the ultimate revelation wasn't too scary, but everything leading up to that? Super-creepy, hair-standing-up-on-the-arms creepy! But in a fun way, not a "can't go to sleep without looking under the bed" kind of way.

I loved mini-Dean to bits! Even if he was more of a joke character than a serious character; by which I mean, I don't think Dean as a kid would have been anything like that (we've seen Dean as a kid -- very serious, mature, responsible, quiet) and mini-Dean was more of an adult Dean scaled down. Even the hair! Still, all the Dean and mini-Dean scenes had me alternately cracking up and "awwww"ing, and I loved the way he was helping the other little kids escape at the end. I'm also not convinced that the mom was telling the truth about the blood test at the end. Just a random biker in a bar, impossible to check up on, yeaaahhhhh ... and you need a DNA sample for a paternity test, right? What's she do, save samples from every guy she has a one-night stand with? Personally, I think it makes more sense that she had no idea if he was the dad or not, but she was still ducking commitment and knew that if she said "Yeah, it could be your kid" that she'd never get rid of Dean. Her offer to him to stay was a little bit of an open door to that -- if he had stayed, if things had worked out between them, I expect that she'd admit a few months down the road that she'd lied about the paternity test. This way, she had an "out" if things didn't work out between them.

Oh, and we got another glimpse of Dean's longing for a stable suburban life, the normalcy that he didn't have growing up. His wistful look at the end ... *pets Dean*

And Sam's still trying to save Dean ... by whatever means necessary. At the end of the show, husband suggested that by the time the season's over, the whole family (John, Dean, Sam, Mary) are going to end up on the Hell version of Jerry Springer, special "I sold my soul to save my family -- and no one knew -- UNTIL TONIGHT!" edition.

I think I like Buffy!chick better now that I know she's a demon. At least she's got a good reason for the annoyingly-evasive thing and for having badass fighting skills that someone her age shouldn't have had time to learn. I kinda hope that they don't go the whole "reformed demon" route with her, though. I'd like to see her turn out to be fundamentally evil, helping the Winchesters out only when their goals coincide with hers. *crosses fingers*

Liking the season so far! Still fundamentally unspoiled and hoping to stay that way; no idea what next week will bring, but I'm looking forward to it.

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Oh, yeah, mini-Dean was cute but completely unrealistic as a 8-year-old. Which, well, wasn't the point (and helping the other kids was fantastic).

I'm glad someone else caught that impossibility of the paternity test thing. I mean, yeah, what you said :) Wouldn't it have been easier to say her ex was the father (her ex was the guy who got sawed in the teaser, right?)?

I like your theory about not really knowing and the open question leaving the change available if need be.

And, definitely yes about the demon-girl-hunter-person and given what she said, I strongly don't think she's good or reformed or anything. I think we're just seeing her interests either aligning with the Winchesters or her using them or just messing with them. (actually, I started wondering if she was Meg even before her eyes flashed - be interesting if she turns out to be Meg, though I don't think she will be).

And I'll just sit here cracking up about the Jerry Springer thing. Because, YES!

No, the guy who got sawed was the ex of the woman with the little girl -- the one who kept locking herself in the bathroom. (Remember, in the very first scene the little girl was telling her how she didn't want to go to Daddy's house because of the monsters.)

... and you know, now that I'm thinking about his death, I've realized that the whole intro scene doesn't really work in light of what we later learned was going on. The little girl was afraid of monsters at Daddy's house, and the "monsters" killed him without touching him. But, two problems with that...

- The changelings don't generally look like monsters; they look like people. The only thing the little girl should have noticed, if anything, was strange people hanging around Daddy's house. And why would the changelings have bothered killing him, anyway? The parents were divorced and the little girl apparently lived with her mother most of the time, giving the changelings easy access to Mom without taking the risky step of killing Dad. And...

- The changelings don't seem to have any powers that would allow them to manipulate power equipment from a distance. They would have had to actually be in the room, turning the saw on and off.

Oh well ... fun episode anyway. *g*

I hope you're right about the demon girl. I just can't tell which way they're going with her character, and I really, really hope they don't end up having her heart won over by the Winchesters or some such thing...

Doh! I knew that. (what is with me and SPN facts leaking out my brain?)
I assumed that the girl was already a changeling at that point (Sam or Dean said something about them killing anyone who got in the way of the mom - including the dad) and was using the monster thing as an excuse to be back with mom and nourishment.

Though, good point on it not making sense for how the Changelins killed the dad. I wonder...

But, yes, fun episode. And we watch Stargate - we should be used to plot holes.

I have to say, I don't expect SPN to go the "heart won over" route. Other shows maybe - but it doesn't feel like SPN's style.

Yes to everything you said. I normally hate kids inserted into an adult show, but mini-Dean was so spot-on perfect that I actually wanted Dean to be his dad. And I agree, I think the mom was lying about who Ben's dad was. Dean at the end telling her he'd be proud to be Ben's dad broke my heart.

And yes! Not!Buffy is much, much more interesting as a demon who may or may not have her own agenda and may or may not be telling the truth. It also explains why she had no problem killing the Innocent along with the Demon. She's no Spike, but I think she'll add a nice conundrum into the mix, especially since Sam may come to kinda trust her, but I bet Dean never will. :D

Yeah, kids can be completely insufferable in an adult show, but I think it was the humor to the Ben scenes that really made them work. And seeing Dean with kids is always fun.

I think she'll add a nice conundrum into the mix, especially since Sam may come to kinda trust her, but I bet Dean never will.

Oooh, that would add an interesting bit of spice to their dynamic! You're right that Dean's sure not gonna be happy when he finds out his brother's consorting with demons ... with the two of them in near-constant proximity, I wonder how long Sam's going to be able to keep this a secret?

Someone on my other LJ put forth the idea that mini-Dean is Dean's half-brother, not his son. *g* I thought that was a pretty funny and fun idea.

I think she lied, too; the paternity test thing was just ridiculous. Blood test? With what?

Oh my, that's an interesting thought that hadn't occurred to me! It would certainly explain why the kid is so much like Dean! Hmmm ... *mulls*

You know, the main problem I have with that idea is that the timing wouldn't really work in a satisfactory way. Ben's father must have slept with his mother right around the time that Dean did -- within a few months, at least. Which would mean that John, without Dean's knowledge, had also slept with Dean's (sort of) girlfriend at about the same time. And apparently Dean talked about her enough that Sam was familiar with her, which would make it hard to believe that John wouldn't realize it was the same girl his son had been seeing. Not only does the idea of John and Dean sleeping with the same girl, at about the same time, trip my squick-o-meter in a major way, but I just can't quite get how it would *work* and have everyone stay oblivious, as much time as they spent together and as much as Dean talks about his sexual conquests...

Hehehee!

I agree! To everything! No, really. Those were my reactions in a nutshell - Dean's Mini-me is adorable, for all that he's not a "real kid" (anime kid, though - that he definitely could be, because eight-year old anime boys act like that all the time!)

Demon Chic is much more interesting than Mary Sue Hunter Chick, and please let her stay evil! It would take something pretty spectacular to convince me that she'd be more interesting redeemed than as a true demon.

And - aww, Dean is so easy to read. The way he wishes that he could have something that was all normal and his - like a child... the way he wishes he could stay, but knows he can't - and not only because he's going to be dead in less than a year. That's the only thing, that the writers sometimes overstate things. I tend to find it more interesting when the characters' emotions are not laid out in the open for everyone to see, when they're not spoken out loud. At least not all the time. I don't really have an urge to rewatch Supernatural, because it doesn't feel like my own interpretations can add anything to an episode that ends with Dean admitting that he'd have been pleased if the boy was his. At the same time, it really is immensely satisfying to have all these emotions delivered with every episode! ♥

Oh, and the creepiness of the little girl - I know! When the episode started, we were saying that toys are really creepy, but - little kids are even creepier!

And is it just me, or has the gore-factor really been upped this year? Last episode had some pretty gruesome stuff, but so did this one - the whole saw-scene was rather long and brutal. Ew.

At the end of the show, husband suggested that by the time the season's over, the whole family (John, Dean, Sam, Mary) are going to end up on the Hell version of Jerry Springer, special "I sold my soul to save my family -- and no one knew -- UNTIL TONIGHT!" edition.

BWAH! Funny 'cause it's true! And I would pay good money to see that show. *grin*

and please let her stay evil! It would take something pretty spectacular to convince me that she'd be more interesting redeemed than as a true demon.

I know! I spent a bit of time trying to figure out why I'm so bothered by the idea of the show reforming her, but I think you've nailed it -- she's interesting as a baddie, but as a "bad girl gone good", she's just another Buffy clone, and all the little things that make her a potentially fascinating bad guy would just start to grate.

And is it just me, or has the gore-factor really been upped this year? Last episode had some pretty gruesome stuff, but so did this one - the whole saw-scene was rather long and brutal. Ew.

Yeah, I was thinking that when we watched the premiere, wondering if they were going to carry on with it. Apparently so! The show has never really shied away from gory scenes, but lately it seems like they've cranked up the "ick" factor; I'm not sure if I just lost my tolerance for it over the break, or if it's really gotten worse.

That's the only thing, that the writers sometimes overstate things. I tend to find it more interesting when the characters' emotions are not laid out in the open for everyone to see, when they're not spoken out loud. At least not all the time. I don't really have an urge to rewatch Supernatural, because it doesn't feel like my own interpretations can add anything to an episode that ends with Dean admitting that he'd have been pleased if the boy was his. At the same time, it really is immensely satisfying to have all these emotions delivered with every episode!

*nodnodnod* I've had that exact reaction to SPN -- and actually, that was why the final episode of last season fell flat for me, because everything was just so blatant and there ... maybe it's the masochist in me, but apparently I must enjoy having to WORK for my h/c! I'll watch episodes of SGA over and over to catch the nuances, but while I've done that with some scenes of SPN, generally it's just not a show that makes me want to analyze all the little looks and what the characters really meant when they said [x] or [y]. There just isn't a whole lot to analyze, because most of the subtext is, well ... text. This isn't really a bad thing; it's actually quite nice to bask in the glow every once in a while! But watching SPN is like reading a well-written fanfic -- you get the warm h/c glow on the first viewing, but like you said, there isn't really a huge incentive to re-watch and analyze and dissect. And similarly, I'm not really moved to write fanfic for it; again quoting you (heh), I don't feel like my own interpretations could really add much, because the writers' intent is fairly obvious. Most of the fic I write falls into one of two categories: 1) character studies and 2) plot-driven h/c. The former isn't really necessary (for the above reasons), and as for the latter, if there's an h/c scene they haven't had yet, you can be pretty sure they'll probably have it in canon before the season's out!

By the way - love the icon you're using! "Hot" indeed...! (And it's got Bobby! ♥)

I know! I spent a bit of time trying to figure out why I'm so bothered by the idea of the show reforming her, but I think you've nailed it -- she's interesting as a baddie, but as a "bad girl gone good", she's just another Buffy clone, and all the little things that make her a potentially fascinating bad guy would just start to grate.

Yep - that's pretty much it. Also - she's a demon! They're supposed to be adversaries of mankind, out for their own good and nothing else. A demon doing good would be a rather pathetic demon, don't you think? (I love how the demons we've seen in the Dresden books work - the ones that seem congenial and harmless are the most dangerous, in a way, because they'll lull you into a false sense of security before trying to steal your soul...!)

Another thing is that, while I do want the boys to get allies, I want them to get the allies they deserve - people like Bobby and Ellen (what's Ellen up to, anyway?), who help them out because they know the Winchester brothers are good people. Having any kind of super-powered being show up and help them out "just because" is interesting for as long as you suspect that she could be very bad news, in the end. If she doesn't have any ulterior motives, then the rescuing of Sam and other favours she might do them along the way would feel a bit like cop-outs, to me. Which I think would be partially because they haven't really earned a personal Buffy to bail them out of trouble...

I'm not sure if I just lost my tolerance for it over the break, or if it's really gotten worse.

Well, unless loss of tolerance is contagious, it's probably gotten worse...!

maybe it's the masochist in me, but apparently I must enjoy having to WORK for my h/c!

Heh! Yeah, that pretty much nails it! It's what you do as a fan - you interpret and analyze until you have what you want... Having it handed to you kind of takes away that agency. Hm.

But - yes, it really is a very fun show to watch. It just doesn't lend itself to getting active and fanning. Well. Not if you're a gen fan with an incest squick, anyway. ^^;;; To me, the most interesting parts of the fandom have been the ones dealing with John Winchester, and the brothers as children. That, and stories with complex OCs, actually! Anything focusing exclusively on present-day Sam & Dean is bound to be trumped by the show eventually, if it hasn't been already...

Hee. I wanted to make myself a Bobby icon, but I was going through and looking for a good shot of him in the premiere, and Bobby just doesn't screencap worth a darn at icon-size. But that shot with the three of them looking down at the flaming corpses -- ooh yeah!

Also - she's a demon! They're supposed to be adversaries of mankind, out for their own good and nothing else. A demon doing good would be a rather pathetic demon, don't you think? (I love how the demons we've seen in the Dresden books work - the ones that seem congenial and harmless are the most dangerous, in a way, because they'll lull you into a false sense of security before trying to steal your soul...!)

The Dresdenverse does excellent demons, I totally agree! Lash(iel) was darned near perfect, because she wasn't in-your-face evil, torturing babies and slitting throats evil; instead, she was so sweet and reasonable, and everything she said made perfect sense, but you could see how she manipulated every little crack in his emotional armor, turning Harry's strengths against him ... which is the very essence of evil! And even the end of her arc was really well-done, because while it did kind of slide into redeemed-demon territory, you could see how a creature like her (an echo of a demon, not really a real demon), in close proximity to Harry's thoughts and getting to know him inside and out in order to tempt him, would have started picking up on his other impulses as well -- loyalty, self-sacrifice and heroism. It was made pretty clear that these weren't qualities the original demon had possessed, or *could* have possessed, and that it only worked because she was a unique "person" from the original Lashiel.

In the SPN-verse, the demons have been so thoroughly established as evil through-and-through that I just can't buy a demon having a change of heart. They are evil; they have no heart to change! Normally, I prefer moral ambiguity in my fiction, but in a case like that, where you've established demons as the very epitome of evil, you'd actually have to rewrite the rules of the world a little bit in order to make an exception for one of them -- which is Mary Sue-ism at its highest degree! So I hope the writers stick to their guns and don't intend a turnaround for her ... at least not unless they have something equivalent to the Lashiel situation in mind.

If she doesn't have any ulterior motives, then the rescuing of Sam and other favours she might do them along the way would feel a bit like cop-outs, to me. Which I think would be partially because they haven't really earned a personal Buffy to bail them out of trouble...

Oh, that is a very good point! And, analyzing my reactions to the original introduction scene, I think this is one of the areas where my discomfort stems from. She's too powerful to be a good ally -- I mean, great for THEM of course, but not so great for us, because having Buffy come along to save them anytime they get in trouble isn't nearly as much fun as watching them get out of it on their own!

The Dresdenverse does excellent demons, I totally agree! Lash(iel) was darned near perfect, because she wasn't in-your-face evil, torturing babies and slitting throats evil; instead, she was so sweet and reasonable, and everything she said made perfect sense, but you could see how she manipulated every little crack in his emotional armor, turning Harry's strengths against him ... which is the very essence of evil!

Yep, absolutely! And even when he was aware of the danger she posed, you were never sure whether Harry would be able to resist her temptation nor not... Especially since it took such an innocent form. And I like what you point out - she wasn't a full-strength demon, and she lived in Harry's head (or heart, or soul, or mind) for a couple of years, and there it would have been a pity if that hadn't changed her. And we're still not sure that she didn't cause more trouble that we haven't seen yet.

I was also thinking about that demon that Harry summons for information, who acts like a demon-scholar - right until the very moment when he sows this incredibly seed of doubt in Harry when mentioning his mother, and almost manages to gain Harry's full name. Beautiful manipulation - and that guy only had a bit part!

Normally, I prefer moral ambiguity in my fiction, but in a case like that, where you've established demons as the very epitome of evil, you'd actually have to rewrite the rules of the world a little bit in order to make an exception for one of them -- which is Mary Sue-ism at its highest degree!

Exactly. It doesn't matter that she's not the kind of Mary Sue all boys immediately fall in love with - being the perfect, cool adversary would be just as bad. Especially if all the rules were changed just for her.

Oh, that is a very good point! And, analyzing my reactions to the original introduction scene, I think this is one of the areas where my discomfort stems from. She's too powerful to be a good ally -- I mean, great for THEM of course, but not so great for us, because having Buffy come along to save them anytime they get in trouble isn't nearly as much fun as watching them get out of it on their own!

Hee~! Watching our boys get into trouble, and then haul themselves back out again is the whole point of Supernatural, yes. And the harder they have to fight to get out, the more battered and bruised they are when they finally emerge, the more satisfying it feels. Those are victories earned. I feel like I really want more info on this Demon Chick, to know that she won't be showing up at every turn - or if she does, that she'll start charging more than a couple of fries for her help. (See, that would be interesting - "Trouble? I can make sure your brother gets out of there alive right now - but then I'd need you to do me a little favour in return...") Not just saving it all for the big finale...

All that said, I'm very much looking forward to tonight's ep - no idea what it's about, but I need my weekly dose of Winchesters. ♥

I went back and checked, because I had the same thought you did - what if she's lying! But what she actually said was:

"I did a blood test when he was a baby. There was a guy, some barback in a biker joint."

A barback is a bartender's assistant, so he was an employee, not a random biker. And he'd have to have an address to be hired. Given that, and that she did the test when Ben was a baby (and when the guy could have still been working, conceivably, at the bar where she found him), it's not implausible that she could track him down and get him to do the test -- especially if her bad-boy "type" includes "secretly a pretty decent guy". =)

I think she was probably telling the truth. On top of all that, the actress just wasn't selling "lying to spare us both" to me.

But I totally agree with you on the mad cuteness of Dean with the kid. Hey, any kid! =)

Oh! Thank you so much; that helps a lot! I didn't remember the exact words; I thought she's said a biker, or just some guy in a biker bar. And I never even heard of a barback! Fandom is educational! And that makes a whole lot more sense. (It's kinda sad, though ... because if she *is* telling the truth, obviously the real father isn't involved with his son's life, and Dean would love to be, but can't...)

And Dean with kids is just adorable. Always has been, always will be. ^_^

I sort of sat back and peered at the screen when she said that she had had a blood test done, because... yeah right, you just arbitrarily make a point of asking people that you have sex with for their blood type for comparisons. Kinda off-putting, I would think. "Hello darlhing...Oh, BTW, A positive or O negative? A girl has to know these things

I am working on remaining unspoilt and was glad that the blonde turned out to be a demon otherwise it was just a little bit tooooo Buffyesque for my tastes.

There's actually a pretty good explanation for the blood test thing in the comment just above yours ... I think it's certainly still open to the "she's lying" interpretation, but at least there IS a reasonable way she could have been telling the truth, if the baby's dad was a bartender rather than a biker.

I love being unspoiled for this season! I was pretty much unspoiled last season too, and I really hope that I can keep it up. And, yeah, I like the Buffy girl a lot better now that she's turned out to be (possibly) a bad guy; much more interesting that way.

YES!I totally agree with everything. hee. Love your Husband's comments. (Mine won't even watch) I'm really enjoying being unspoiled this season. It helps!
crossing fingers with ya!

LOL, my husband actually likes the show, although he complained about the "soap opera stuff" last season. I think he's mostly in it for the horror plots and the babes ... *g*

I've been mulling over this episode while I was driving in my car today and I was going to write a mini review (and still am), but I wandered over here first and now what I'm going to is perhaps a little more "reactionary" - because I'm going to be the fly in the ointment and disagree with everyone here. So there! ;-P

I'm trying to avoid major spoilers, but I do read the upcoming episode "teasers" at the CW's own site (I figure that's pretty much like watching the "on next week's episode" ads on TV). So yeah, Dean meeting a kid that he thinks could be his son - what's not to like?

Well, the kid, actually. I'm apparently in the minority, but I was singularly unimpressed with young Ben. Don't get me wrong! I don't hate the kid, but I really wasn't that impressed with him either. And it must be said that I'm generally not impressed with portrayals of children on TV. But I think the problem is that Supernatural has impressed me before with it's portrayals of child characters before - and more specifically with Young!Dean like child characters. I am, of course, talking about the "Something Wicked" episode which not only had a wonderful version of the younger Dean Winchester himself, but also the character Michael who was a much, MUCH better juvenile reflection of Dean than Ben could ever hope to be.

As you say, they tried to make Ben more of an adult Dean scaled down rather than a true reflection of what Dean was actually like as a child. Fair enough as an intention, but it really DIDN'T work for me. It's meant to be part of the joke, I do get it. I just don't find the kid all that funny. He says "awesome" which doesn't really distinguish him from other children as far as I can tell. He says "bitches" too - hmmm... I dunno. He's eight and he's keen on chasing girls - I'm a little whatever about that. It's an adult Dean characteristic ascribed to a child, but it's not particularly funny, interesting or believably portrayed. I get the "I'm gonna fight my own battles" and the "help saving the other kids" at the end, but by that stage he'd been firmly entrenched in my mind as Mini-WANNABE-Dean and not Mini-Dean. I hate to pick on a child actor (I feel like I'm kicking a puppy - or a small child, s'pose) but I didn't believe the perfomance until he was zombified. Zombie!Changling!Ben sold it to me. Un-zombified!Non-Changling!Ben was just an annoying trying-to-be-cute kid character on TV.

Yeah, I think that's where they went wrong. They were TRYING too hard to make him cute and bashing me over the head with "hey look, he's just like Dean" characteristics left, right and centre. Thatb just made me cringe. Sorry. Whereas if you compare it to the characterisation of Michael in "Something Wicked" with his smart mouth and overdeveloped sense of fraternal responsibility - played straight and not for cuteness - Michael comes off as the genuine Mini-Dean and Ben is just a wannabe. Admittedly, Ben can't be what Michael was because he's an only child and not an older brother. But it really comes off (to me) as Ben being too much of a "try hard" - the fakeness of his Little-Dean-Winchesterness just grates on me.

LOL! I wonder if this is one of those cases where anticipation had something to do with the differences in our reactions? I had no idea what was coming -- I just cracked up when they introduced the kid as an obvious Dean mini-me. I enjoyed him as a running joke rather than a serious character, because there was really no way he *could* be taken seriously as a character. (I agree that he was a very unconvincing child, although I don't think the child actor did a bad job; I actually thought he did fine given what he had to work with.) I guess I never thought of him as anything other than a running joke, the comic relief of the episode, and was then pleasantly surprised when he started to turn into a "real" character towards the end there (helping the kids get out of the basement, and having some interactions with Dean that were, IMHO, sweet and fun).

But it's definitely a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing. I can see how, if you didn't buy the child actor's portrayal of his "mini-Dean", the character would have been insufferable. For me, he wasn't convincing as a character, but he didn't need to be -- he was entertaining enough as a comic "B" plot counterbalancing the tension from the "A" plot.

(Although, with all the catting around that Dean does, this can't possibly be the first time he's had a paternity scare, can it? *g*)

But it's definitely a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing. I can see how, if you didn't buy the child actor's portrayal of his "mini-Dean", the character would have been insufferable. For me, he wasn't convincing as a character, but he didn't need to be -- he was entertaining enough as a comic "B" plot counterbalancing the tension from the "A" plot.

Hmmm... for me, he seemed to be firmly entrenched in Monster of the Week "A" plot with the "B" plot being Sam meeting Demon!girl. But it is most defintely a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing. The problem being, once a joke becomes unfunny, everytime they keep trying to tell it, it becomes like "Ow... ow... ow... ow... OWW!!! No, stop! Ouch! Christ! STOP. NOW!"

(Although, with all the catting around that Dean does, this can't possibly be the first time he's had a paternity scare, can it? *g*)

Well, you'd think not. But then again, how often does he actually go back and see the girls again? They did portray it as something he'd never considered.

And I did find Dean's reactions rather cute. It was just the kid that bugged me and messed up the interactions for me. The kid was just so blah, as far as I could see. I know I can't expect a kid to have the same sort of acting skills as a guy in his late twenties, but every single other kid the show has had interacting with Dean has made the connection seemed real. I do think that this time they were trying TOO HARD. Another instance where less is more, for me.

In other news, da blonde chick is a demon? Cool! I didn't see that coming at all. I was rather blah about the character (didn't hate, but wasn't intrigued by either) up until that point, but now I can see all sorts of possiblitilies unfolding. I've long thought that it might be trying to save Dean that somehow might tempt Sam to "go darkside". I never specifically thought that dealing with an actual demon might be the route though. But now I can see Sam working closer and closer with Demon!girl and his lines of morality getting more and more blurred as he makes concessions in his quest to save his brother.

Also, I can see this becoming a new Big Secret for Sam. There's no way in hell (pun not intended, but not avoided either) that Dean would agree to working side by side with a known demon. Yeah, he's accepted that maybe not all vampires are Evil Incarnate, but demons are different. His life was torn apart by a demon as a child. Demons took both his parents from him. Demons lie. Demons can't be trusted. There's no way that Dean would willing accept "help" from a demon. So I really think that Sam is not going to tell him - and when that Big Reveal comes, won't it be a doozy!

And, like others here, I'm so glad that

merryish spoke up about the bartender thing. Lisa's announcement that Dean couldn't be Ben's father because she had them do a blood test when he was born was a huge WTF moment for me and I worried that might just be me be doing a medico geek out thing. It was reassuring to find out that lots of other people had the same reaction and even better to find out about the bartender thing. Coz I was wondering if the writer just didn't kow jack about DNA testing or it was a clue that Lisa might be lying. And while I'd be totally okay with Dean having a kid, I really wouldn't want Ben to be that kid.

Harsh? Moi?

I've long thought that it might be trying to save Dean that somehow might tempt Sam to "go darkside". I never specifically thought that dealing with an actual demon might be the route though. But now I can see Sam working closer and closer with Demon!girl and his lines of morality getting more and more blurred as he makes concessions in his quest to save his brother.

Yeah, I'm really interested to see where this is going to go! My reaction when she was introduced in the previous episode was a very knee-jerk "Oh, brother!" sort of exasperation, so I was very happy when she turned out to be a demon -- I really did not see that coming. (I had a bad moment, right before her eyes went black, when I was just braced for her to tell Sam that John was her father -- I was going no, no, they wouldn't, they wouldn't ... so it was quite a relief when she turned out to be "just" a demon! Heh.) But, yeah, I think she's got lots of potential as a means of tempting Sam to the dark side, and I'm also very interested to see how the Mary plot is going to play out this season -- it looks like we are going to get follow-up to the interesting hints about Mary that were dropped at the end of last season.

And while I'd be totally okay with Dean having a kid, I really wouldn't want Ben to be that kid.

Okay, yeah, I do agree with you there -- because the mini-Dean thing was fun for an episode, but for a recurring character or a series regular, not so much.

had a bad moment, right before her eyes went black, when I was just braced for her to tell Sam that John was her father -- I was going no, no, they wouldn't, they wouldn't ... so it was quite a relief when she turned out to be "just" a demon! Heh

LOL! Kinda ironic, but I've been "not anticipating" with this subplot and so I'm just enjoying it as it unfolds onscreen. And yeah, I'm very interested to see where they go with the Mary's history storyline. Mary herself was a bit of a nothing character to me - a venerated saint in John and Dean's memories and a blank in Sam's. Now she seems to be getting a lot more interesting - even if it is in retrospect.

the mini-Dean thing was fun for an episode, but for a recurring character or a series regular, not so much.

Ow... ow... ow... ow... OWW!!! No, stop! Ouch! Christ! STOP. NOW!

;-P

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Oh, right! SPN 3x02

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Never Mind the Kids, Here's the Sex Pistols!

Re: Never Mind the Kids, Here's the Sex Pistols!

Re: Never Mind the Kids, Here's the Sex Pistols!

Ah, my old friend, the LJ character limit...

Re: Ah, my old friend, the LJ character limit...

Re: Ah, my old friend, the LJ character limit...