Hey flistees/dw circle!

[sholio]

This is a question for those of you who have mental health issues and/or close people in your lives with mental health issues. (If this does not apply to you, please don't answer! I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid or anything like that - it's just that I would like to solicit opinions from a specific subset of you, please.)

You can answer anonymously if you like. This post is not locked and comments aren't screened, so please be aware of that before saying anything you wouldn't be comfortable saying in public.

My question: Would you consider the book title "Crazy Like a Fox" ableist? Do you think a book with a title like that would make you uncomfortable? (For context, the book itself is a light caper fantasy; the title is in no way subversive or self-aware.)

It's a quite serious question. This is the working title of a novel of mine -- namely the title that popped into my head while I was noodling with this project today. I really like this title and I think it fits the book well. However, if I'm eventually going to feel uneasy enough to change it, I'd much rather do it now than a year down the line. So I would like to know if it makes *you* uncomfortable, if you don't mind answering.

ETA: Thank you very much for the answers! I'll reply individually a bit later, but I think I've collected enough feedback to make me decide that it would be better, for a number of reasons, to change the name. And I've brainstormed some other options that I like. Thank you all again. :)

Comments

[sophia_sol]

Yeah, it's a title that would make me uncomfortable. I mean, I'd probably still pick it up, because I know what's trying to be said and it's something that appeals to me, but "crazy" is too often still a pejorative for people with actual mental health issues, so I wouldn't be happy about it.

(Thank you for thinking about it ahead of time and realizing its potentiality for being problematic!)

[sholio]

Thank you very much for the input and the honesty! <3

[malnpudl]

I'm a life-long depressive whose particular neurochemistry is not nearly as responsive to meds as one would hope. Also ADHD (though my flavor is H-free). So I feel reasonably well qualified to answer... although I do wonder if I'm a bit sheltered because my particular issues aren't generally lumped under the "crazy" heading.

Anyway, the title and the expression don't bother me at all. It doesn't hurt that it's a relatively flattering simile.

[sholio]

Thank you very much for the input! It is helpful. :D

(I actually kind of wonder that too - the sheltered part, I mean - because my own issues are almost entirely on the depressive end of the spectrum, which isn't usually considered "crazy" per se.)

[leonie_alastair]

While I understand the potential problem with the word, the phrase has no negative connotations for me.

[sholio]

Thank you!

[princessofgeeks]

I asked a close relative who has major depression and has been successfully treating it and managing it for about 22 years.

She said the title was not offensive to her, or ableist, but that it was a cliche and that was her only problem with it.

so there's a data point!

[sholio]

Thank you very much! :)

[abyssinia]

I only mildly fit your qualifications, and I've found in internet discussions that I am a terrible judge of albeist issues (I'm working on it) and I also have spent most of my life in social circles where mental health was much less stigmatized than is average for society (hell, I'm currently living in a house where 4/5ths of us are in varying degrees of therapy and with a roommate who has spent substantial time in a mental hospital and is working on a PhD in sociology of mental health - it comes up a lot).

All that being said, I'd have no problem with the title, personally. It's a pretty standard phrase which, as a phrase, I don't associate to refer to mental health problems (I always think of "crazy like a fox" to be sorta sly and ambitious and tricky and daring) but the word "crazy" also isn't an issue in my head, so take everything I say with a huge grain of salt.

And I just talked myself into a lot of circles...

[sholio]

No, this makes sense. Thank you very much for the input - it is helpful!

[lizbee]

I fit both criteria, and neither I nor my mentally ill friends would find it offensive or off-putting.

Of course, a quick poll also confirms we can't be bothered getting worked up about the casual use of "crazy", so we may not be representative.

[sholio]

Thank you very much! Helpful input is helpful. :)

[telesilla]

For me, crazy is one of those words that I'm trying to figure out. I call myself crazy--bipolar, anxiety disorder and the occasional bout of clinical depression--and joke about it, but I'm trying not to apply it to other people unless I know they're okay with it and I'm trying (not always successfully) to keep from using it in my writing.

When other people use it, I'm kind of put off, but not as angry as I am when people use homophobic, transphobic, sexist or racist words. I think it's that I know the concept of ableist language being problematical is newer than those other issues so I'm a little more forgiving.

So yeah, I'm not totally wild about your title, but if I saw the book somewhere or had it recced to me and it looked like the kind of thing Id like, I might still buy it.

[sholio]

Thank you for the input!

I think "trying to figure out" describes how I relate to the word, too.

[nonniemous]

Why are you fixated on "Crazy" for your adjective? I know it's part of the original saying, but maybe there's a twist you can put on the saying that more fully expresses what the title means for your story? That would deal with the Cliche aspect.

I'm of two minds regarding 'crazy' as pejorative. I think, honestly, that's it's mostly going to be those who don't deal wtih mental health issues who are going to see it as pejorative; everyone I know (including myself) who deal with this seriously see it as almost funny. But I think, too, that here on the Internet we are a self-selecting group, leaning towards a larger percentage of the population that deal with mental health issues. To that end, we are going to tend to be more at home with our issues, if that means anything.

So, I don't see it as a big issue; I honestly think your bigger issue is the cliche as mentioned above. Changing that is your best bet.

[sholio]

Thank you very much! Well, I had a whole set of reasons why I wanted both the "crazy" and the "fox" in there (especially the "fox" part) but based on the input I think I'm probably going to change it (and I've come up with a couple of ideas that work as well if not better).

[rydra_wong]

Personally, I'm not offended or made uncomfortable by it, I think, though I respect that some people with mental health issues would be.

However, it's a cliche and a really common book title (check the number of matches on Amazon), and thus boring. As a title, it'd only interest me if I thought it was being self-aware/subversive and had something to say about mental illness in particular. For a caper, no.

[sholio]

Thank you very much for the input!

I think in response to the various feedback I've gotten, I'm probably going to change it (and I have a few other ideas waiting in the wings to use that I'm starting to like just as much if not more).

[rydra_wong]

Btw, sorry if that was excessively blunt. I didn't mean it to be YOUR TITLE IS BORING AND SHIT. *g* But it wouldn't stand out enough to attract me to a book.

Glad you have some alternatives you like!

[sholio]

Oh heavens no, not at all. :D I appreciated the candor, and I think you're right! And I definitely would MUCH rather address these issues now, rather than writing a whole novel under this title and then deciding that I have to change it ...

(Though considering that the entire "novel" at this point consists of a couple pages of character name options and a really awful map, there probably isn't much chance of that.)

[sentientcitizen]

(Probably too late for replies, but - although I understand why the phrase can be seen as problematic, it doesn't bother me personally.)

[sholio]

Never too late - and thank you for the answer. :)