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Homestuck: now with spoilers
Finished reading Homestuck, so this will be potentially spoilery through Act 6 Intermission 2.
First off, as noted in the comments to the last post,![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
xparrot has a good introduction/pimp post to the series if you're wondering what it is or thinking about reading it.
I gotta say Homestuck is one of the most bizarrely original things I've seen. The closest thing I can think of to compare it to is Homestar Runner - not that they're alike other than being Flash-based, trippy and weird, with a certain disregard for linear storytelling or the "rules" of their medium. Homestar Runner is more closely akin to animated kids' cartoons, whereas Homestuck is based on webcomics/video games/anime/heaven knows what (but at heart it's mostly a webcomic, though with animated and interactive parts).
Like I said in the comments to my last entry, Homestuck really isn't going to be for everyone; it's glacially paced, incredibly vulgar (though not, I realized when I was trying explain it to my husband, in a racist/sexist/4chan kind of way, and there's no actual nudity or sex; on the other hand, profanity and jokey sexual innuendo are EVERYWHERE), full of bizarre tangents and random weirdness, and it relies heavily, especially in the beginning, on a general familiarity with video games and pop culture of the late '80s and '90s.
On the other hand, it's epic in every sense, hilarious, has some gorgeous animation in later installments, and somehow manages to keep a cast of dozens of characters unique and interesting, even when they only communicate in chat most of the time.
Everything under the cut is completely spoilery for character deaths, big reveals, etc...
Like I said (obliquely) in the comments to the last entry, the zodiac as a way of keeping the trolls straight is really a brilliant idea! When you're dealing with 12 separate characters, all of them similar-looking at first glance (in terms of general color scheme and physical features) ... it's a very useful shorthand for relating everything about them, their names and chat handles and horns and personalities and lususes, to a symbol that can be easily Googled on any website. I'm pretty sure the only other way that I would have been able to keep them straight would be to have a character index open in another browser window, and I didn't want to look up anything like that for fear of spoilers. (As it was, I'm not sure how many times I looked up the list of zodiac symbols when we'd flip back to a new set of troll characters and I would have forgotten almost everyone.) Also, the moment when the switch flips and you figure out the zodiac thing is a really neat little "Damn, that's cool!" click of the brain.
Another nifty switch-flip was the "new" set of characters being the parents of the old set -- Nanna, Rose's alcoholic mom, etc. Though I didn't actually figure this out until the characters said so. I imagine that readers going along at normal speed would have probably all figured it out by then, but I was skimming a lot of their sections because I wanted to know IF THE ENTIRE CAST (the real ones, the ones I'd gotten attached to) WERE DEAD OR NOT. And my sheer relief when I found out that they were not only still around, but most of them are now interacting in meatspace, cannot be textually rendered. :DDDDDD
... omigod. THE BUCKET. I laughed myself right down to little breathless squeaks at the entire sequence with the note in the bucket and Karkat's entirely predictable reaction to it. Also, the sequence that begins here. Karkat, I want you to hang out with the humans FOREVER. And I'm still waaaaaiiiiiting for the trolls to meet up in person with Jade and John! Most people (on my flist, that is) seem to be fondest of John and Karkat relationship, but it's Jade and Karkat that pinged my id really hard -- berating his past!self for being mean to her, awwww. Anyway, that's a meet-up that I desperately want to see! (ETA: Okay, re-reading John and Karkat's reverse trolling sessions, I take that back -- they're pretty damn adorable! Jade and Karkat were just more recent.)
Now that we've found out how many ways there are to escape/evade/subvert/return after death, I'm not quite so worried about losing characters as I became during the wholesale character implosion towards the end of Act 5. Kids and trolls alike have lost their dreamselves now (I think?), so anyone who dies, dies for good. But even if they're dead, it's basically a given that we'll see them occasionally afterwards.
On the other hand, having the entire cast wiped out and no longer existing is a very real possibility, and this comic is just cracky enough to actually do it (though I hope not).
So yeah, there I am. I really don't see Homestuck ever becoming a fanfic fandom for me; I've looked up a few vids and some fanart, but mostly, I'm not even that interested in that sort of thing. I'm just interested in reading and discussing new canon, and wallowing in the sheer addictive weirdness of it. :D
First off, as noted in the comments to the last post,
xparrot has a good introduction/pimp post to the series if you're wondering what it is or thinking about reading it.I gotta say Homestuck is one of the most bizarrely original things I've seen. The closest thing I can think of to compare it to is Homestar Runner - not that they're alike other than being Flash-based, trippy and weird, with a certain disregard for linear storytelling or the "rules" of their medium. Homestar Runner is more closely akin to animated kids' cartoons, whereas Homestuck is based on webcomics/video games/anime/heaven knows what (but at heart it's mostly a webcomic, though with animated and interactive parts).
Like I said in the comments to my last entry, Homestuck really isn't going to be for everyone; it's glacially paced, incredibly vulgar (though not, I realized when I was trying explain it to my husband, in a racist/sexist/4chan kind of way, and there's no actual nudity or sex; on the other hand, profanity and jokey sexual innuendo are EVERYWHERE), full of bizarre tangents and random weirdness, and it relies heavily, especially in the beginning, on a general familiarity with video games and pop culture of the late '80s and '90s.
On the other hand, it's epic in every sense, hilarious, has some gorgeous animation in later installments, and somehow manages to keep a cast of dozens of characters unique and interesting, even when they only communicate in chat most of the time.
Everything under the cut is completely spoilery for character deaths, big reveals, etc...
Like I said (obliquely) in the comments to the last entry, the zodiac as a way of keeping the trolls straight is really a brilliant idea! When you're dealing with 12 separate characters, all of them similar-looking at first glance (in terms of general color scheme and physical features) ... it's a very useful shorthand for relating everything about them, their names and chat handles and horns and personalities and lususes, to a symbol that can be easily Googled on any website. I'm pretty sure the only other way that I would have been able to keep them straight would be to have a character index open in another browser window, and I didn't want to look up anything like that for fear of spoilers. (As it was, I'm not sure how many times I looked up the list of zodiac symbols when we'd flip back to a new set of troll characters and I would have forgotten almost everyone.) Also, the moment when the switch flips and you figure out the zodiac thing is a really neat little "Damn, that's cool!" click of the brain.
Another nifty switch-flip was the "new" set of characters being the parents of the old set -- Nanna, Rose's alcoholic mom, etc. Though I didn't actually figure this out until the characters said so. I imagine that readers going along at normal speed would have probably all figured it out by then, but I was skimming a lot of their sections because I wanted to know IF THE ENTIRE CAST (the real ones, the ones I'd gotten attached to) WERE DEAD OR NOT. And my sheer relief when I found out that they were not only still around, but most of them are now interacting in meatspace, cannot be textually rendered. :DDDDDD
... omigod. THE BUCKET. I laughed myself right down to little breathless squeaks at the entire sequence with the note in the bucket and Karkat's entirely predictable reaction to it. Also, the sequence that begins here. Karkat, I want you to hang out with the humans FOREVER. And I'm still waaaaaiiiiiting for the trolls to meet up in person with Jade and John! Most people (on my flist, that is) seem to be fondest of John and Karkat relationship, but it's Jade and Karkat that pinged my id really hard -- berating his past!self for being mean to her, awwww. Anyway, that's a meet-up that I desperately want to see! (ETA: Okay, re-reading John and Karkat's reverse trolling sessions, I take that back -- they're pretty damn adorable! Jade and Karkat were just more recent.)
Now that we've found out how many ways there are to escape/evade/subvert/return after death, I'm not quite so worried about losing characters as I became during the wholesale character implosion towards the end of Act 5. Kids and trolls alike have lost their dreamselves now (I think?), so anyone who dies, dies for good. But even if they're dead, it's basically a given that we'll see them occasionally afterwards.
On the other hand, having the entire cast wiped out and no longer existing is a very real possibility, and this comic is just cracky enough to actually do it (though I hope not).
So yeah, there I am. I really don't see Homestuck ever becoming a fanfic fandom for me; I've looked up a few vids and some fanart, but mostly, I'm not even that interested in that sort of thing. I'm just interested in reading and discussing new canon, and wallowing in the sheer addictive weirdness of it. :D
no subject
I've been reading fanworks for, oh, maybe three months now? At first in a trickle, just whatever someone from a fandom I knew wrote, and then in a flood as I picked up more of the basic details. Whih is why I find your comments on the characters and their associated symbols really interesting, because given the way I've become a part of this fandom that's actually something that has worked against me -- not only do I have to learn 16 names, I also have to learn 16 colours, 16 symbols, 16 titles, and
1632 two-letter nicknames (chatlog names plus nicknames: aa, tz, etc.) and map them to those names. And then I have to figure out how the colours stack up against each other in any given combo.It's like reading one of those fantasy novels where the author has given everyone made-up words all over the place -- a name, a title, a nickname, and a species name -- and you spend the first three books bewildered and uncertain that the aishetun Kevarro is the Hyclept of Lonsdellon though his best friend calls him 'Karr'. *throws up hands* Are the Prince of Hope and the Witch of Space having a conversation here the same people as CA and GG who had a similar discussion in another fic? If Nepeta has a fight with Kanaya and Terezi, which one has the highest rank?
Apparently I am just ace at mastering that kind of fantasy novel, though, because I have come to a point where I can tell you everybody's name, symbol, blood colour, text colour, chat handle, chat handle abbreviation, chat quirk, horn shape, relative caste, patron/patronage, sibling where applicable, and game title! *fistpumps the sky* It only took me sixteen kinkmeme posts, endless hours trawling through A03, a few references to the wiki, and several days of getting completely lost on Tumblr!
NOW I am totally ready to tackle this fandom in its natural habitat, i.e. canon. :D
no subject
All fandoms are a little confusing/disorienting when you aren't familiar with canon, but it seems like this one would be extraordinarily so!
... I have to admit that the appeal of being in a fandom without also being into canon is something that I've never quite been able to wrap my brain around, which doesn't mean it's not for everyone, just not for me. :D There are quite a few shows, books and movies that I've gotten into using a fanwork as a gateway -- that is, tried a fic or a vid as a sample, liked it, and decided to look up canon -- but for me, fandom is all about engaging with canon; it doesn't really work the other way around ...
ETA: I just reread your comment and I hadn't realized the first time that you were saying that my post was what made you decide to check out the comic itself (that's what you're saying, right?). That's cool to know! Thank you. :) (And I hope that my previous comment about canon vs. fanworks doesn't come across like I'm implying that you're doing fandom wrong or anything like that, because it isn't what I meant at all! It's just different from how it works for me ...)
no subject
About the only outstanding examples I can think of are (for years) From Eroica With Love, which wasn't available in English when I discovered the fandom; X-Men: First Class which I never managed to see (but may still someday rent), and Homestuck (mostly I was just overwhelmed at the sheer size of it and the impossibility of catching up without devoting like a month I don't have to the endeavor).
Canon's pretty integral to my involvement in the long run; I can't write or meta for a fandom I don't have the canon for, so anything I stay strictly on the fandom side of is going to be restricted to "read-only" -- I devour all the fic, and maybe rec a few for their premises or stylistic awesomeness, but never get beyond that because I cannot comment on characterisation or canonicity, etc. (Which, y'know, most people look for in fic!) One of the best things about Loveless fandom was the amazing group of discussion-minded fen I found (we were a little sea of sanity in a roiling flood of cluelessness!) and bonded with, and we talked about everything from fic to possible authorial intent regarding catboy tropes and yaoi dynamics!
my post was what made you decide to check out the comic itself (that's what you're saying, right?). That's cool to know!
Well, it all started with a condescending Fandom Secret; but your post is definitely making me think I should push my intended reading date back to, oh, say, "now". *grins* Or at least next week...
no subject
(And LOL, the irony! I wonder how many people were pushed to check out the comic by that very Secret?)
Anyway, yes, this does make sense to me. :D My own involvement tends to be canon-first except, like I said, where a "sample" fic or vid intrigues me enough to get into it. Actually, HP was one of those for me, too; I stumbled across the infamous Cassandra Clare story o'doom (back when it was just the first part of the trilogy), read it and liked it and read the books then! But yeah, I certainly don't want to imply that there is a right way and a wrong way to do fandom.
I think it would be much harder to write than to read without having seen much (or any) of canon -- a lot of fics, and particularly vids, can be enjoyed on their own merits, but it's hard to imagine being able to have enough of a handle on the characters to write them with no knowledge of canon whatsoever (I've read some fic that was written that way, and it always felt somewhat flat and OOC, even when I had no idea that the author hadn't seen canon ...).
no subject
Each of the trolls wears their zodiac symbol on their shirt and most of them also have physical attributes that relate to it (two sets of horns on Gemini, wide bull horns on Taurus, etc
The whole zodiac thing actually added another layer of Stuff I Must Learn, because I am completely clueless about astrology (I hardly know my own sign, much less which ones come before and after it, et cetera!) so on top of the hemospectrum I had to learn another system of randomly-stacked data! (Three, really: sign, contellation, and emblem!)
Twenty years of devouring fantasy novels has turned out to be a very good thing. :D BRING ON YOUR NONSENSE WORDS. I WILL MASTER THEM!