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A comment on the ending of last night's Fringe
I gotta say that, while the episode certainly had fun bits, the ending basically encapsulated everything I hate about the "true love trumps all other considerations" theme that runs through a lot of JJ Abrams' shows (and media in general). Olivia is, in essence, giving up all the other important relationships in her life for Peter -- and this is when she's only been together with him for a few months in the original reality; I think it would feel less imbalanced to me if it was, say, a 20-year marriage, but a relationship of a year or so in which they spent a lot of that time fighting? Er ... yay? Anyway, that whole dynamic (Olivia gives up everything else that's important in her life for ~true love~) mashed down my DO NOT WANT buttons hard.
It wasn't quite as 100% do-not-wanty as it might otherwise be because it isn't strictly an either-or proposition, and Olivia knows it -- her alt-self has close relationships with some of her other friends too (Walter and Astrid, for example), so she won't have to rebuild everything from scratch. And the Observer's "love brought you back" comment to Peter was clearly not referring only to Olivia, but referencing Walter as well. So it's not absolutely, 100% "romantic love is the only important thing in the world!" But it was damned close, uncomfortably close for me, especially since the memory trade that Olivia is making will basically cost her the shared history that she has with everyone else in the world besides Peter -- all the little in-jokes, the memories of missions with the others, any and all differences between this timeline and ours ... if the memory replacement becomes complete (which I hope it doesn't, but the decision she made is based on the assumption that it might), she won't remember any of that. Our memories make us who we are, and it feels like Olivia is basically giving up not only all the other relationships in her life (either severing them, or changing them irrevocably) but also giving up her self to be with Peter. And, even though it's a decision no one is forcing her into, the fact that canon set it up so that this was her decision is something that leaves me tremendously uncomfortable.
It wasn't quite as 100% do-not-wanty as it might otherwise be because it isn't strictly an either-or proposition, and Olivia knows it -- her alt-self has close relationships with some of her other friends too (Walter and Astrid, for example), so she won't have to rebuild everything from scratch. And the Observer's "love brought you back" comment to Peter was clearly not referring only to Olivia, but referencing Walter as well. So it's not absolutely, 100% "romantic love is the only important thing in the world!" But it was damned close, uncomfortably close for me, especially since the memory trade that Olivia is making will basically cost her the shared history that she has with everyone else in the world besides Peter -- all the little in-jokes, the memories of missions with the others, any and all differences between this timeline and ours ... if the memory replacement becomes complete (which I hope it doesn't, but the decision she made is based on the assumption that it might), she won't remember any of that. Our memories make us who we are, and it feels like Olivia is basically giving up not only all the other relationships in her life (either severing them, or changing them irrevocably) but also giving up her self to be with Peter. And, even though it's a decision no one is forcing her into, the fact that canon set it up so that this was her decision is something that leaves me tremendously uncomfortable.
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So... Did the alt timeline with Peter's son just get erased?
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As I understand it, the alt timeline with Peter's son is the original Blue timeline before anything changed - before Walter rescued Peter and so on. It's several levels of erased by now. *g* (ETA: Wait, I completely misunderstood the question! You meant the son he actually had with Fauxlivia, right? I was thinking about the hypothetical child that he was "supposed" to have. Oops. Yeah, I think that timeline is toast at this point ... well, unless this universe's other Olivia gets her alt-memories too, which could be INTERESTING.)
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This, absolutely.
For what it's worth, the show makes it semi-explicit Olivia was aware of this; she just didn't intellectually care because she was emotionally tied up.
Ridiculous. Have outlined my stunned reaction elsewhere in teh internets tonight already, but I hear you on yours.
I think that one's been dead and gone all along, but yes, obviously now there won't be any erasing of the Amber!verse. Which is something. Sigh.
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Exactly.
Especially as this was framed as "Olivia chooses this freely" when this makes no rational sense in light of Olivia Dunham's characterisation over the course of the seasons. It'd of course be perfectly, intrinsically sensible if the show had made it clear she was already too-far gone, an oldly mildly turquoise Blue, if you will?
Mine as well.
I had, I guess, as the best worst-case scenario, expected an Olivia between memories, stabilised, and then falling back in love with Peter over the rest of these episodes. The choice of Peter (versus Lincoln, sigh) would've made more sense then -- if perhaps not to me -- they have saved worlds together, and were partners of a sort for three years, not three months.
Then again, overall, just to clarify, I'm not watching this show for romance. I loved Fringe for 3 1/2 seasons without Olivia in a romantic relationship, watching this for a kick-ass heroine and the cases, not romance -- Olivia's and Peter's relationship not as a lovely background factor but as the actual story as such hasn't sat well with me since Season Three, and feels worse now.
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I actually could have seen a lot of potential in the idea of Peter (now that he knows the truth) remembering and loving an Olivia who doesn't remember him, and having to gently win her back. That's what he did with Walter this season, after all, more or less: took a version of Walter who didn't know him or like him, and slowly won him over. It was really sweet and low-key, and I liked it a lot.
This? NO. Just, no. I can even think of much less skeevy ways they could have framed this -- Olivia being too far gone to go back, say, or Olivia choosing her Blueverse life because she cherishes those memories and being that person, and doesn't want to lose it again. But in the context of the episode, it was explicitly, blatantly framed as "Olivia chooses romantic love over all the other relationships in her life", with very heavy subtext of "Olivia values herself as a person less than she values being in love, and that is a good thing". ICK. ICK. ICK.
Not to mention the loving vs. being in love thing, which I found a really ugly way of reducing human relationships to two binary, mutually exclusive poles when it just isn't that simple at all! I missed some of that conversation at the time, and thought I must have missed something important, because surely they weren't saying what I thought they were saying? But no, that's really what they meant. Making it a metaphor for Lincoln vs. Peter - trying to cram the characters into those boxes, regardless of what viewers might see in them - makes it even worse.
Especially as this was framed as "Olivia chooses this freely" when this makes no rational sense in light of Olivia Dunham's characterisation over the course of the seasons.
... hmm, could you explain this some more? I do see it as being a choice she made freely, even though I think it is a very stupid, misogynistic decision on the writers' parts to have her make that choice. I think that you summed it up really well in your comment above with "she just didn't intellectually care because she was emotionally tied up" - her current infatuation with Peter is blinding her to some of the negative consequences of the choice she's making, but it's still a consensual choice.
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Of course, I'm not as invested in Fringe as I've been with other fandoms - once burned, always Abrams shy - so I don't exactly feel betrayed by the writing. It's disappointing. Shows very often are. I'm holding on to a couple possibilities for the moment. There's no saying that September told Peter the truth; the rest of the Observers and September might disagree on methodology, but they're united in that their efforts are all about stabilizing a timeline that results in their future. Plus, there's a chance something will happen to obviate the amber timeline and fork off another one or that the memories won't completely overtake the amber Olivia.
I'm thinking now of the Observer telling Olivia she had to die. I suppose getting your memories over written to become a different timeline version would qualify in my book just as much as taking a bullet.
Mostly, though, I'm annoyed in a selfish way. Now I have to either factor this into my ridiculous crossover story or set it before this episode.
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Letting blue Olivia's memories take over with the real possibility they'll overwrite hers comes across as a kind of suicide. If they'd established this timeline's Olivia as emotionally wounded/miserable/utterly isolated/recklessly suicidal, then I could accept it a little easier, but she's been shown as balanced, with friendships. Giving up you entire self for love? The idea makes me shudder.
Yes. Exactly. I think there are plenty of ways this could have been done that would have been more interesting and less skeevy -- and other ways it could have been done that would've played up the creepy, skeevy, intellectual-horror elements of Olivia making that choice. But the episode framed it so explicitly as Olivia choosing Peter over her entire life in the Amberverse, and that being a good thing, and ... just, no. NO.
I'm not really invested in Fringe as a fan, or rather, it's more what my friend
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You know what would have been more interesting than the woman gives up all for romantic love plot line? If they'd reversed it and had Peter be the one losing his memories and having to choose whether to integrate into the new universe, sans himself in a sense, or go the way of the rest of his timeline and not be at all.
Or even if they'd had her making the choice but him rejecting her sacrifice of self, which is where the last episode seemed to be heading and which I liked. Be the better man - that's a good message. Give yourself up for a man - effing bad message.
You know, sometimes it's better if I don't think about episodes very much beyond watching them. At least for my blood pressure.
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Oh, one thing I should have added is that it's Type A as contrasted with Type B fandoms, which are the ones where you get involved with writing fic and trying to plug the holes in canon. Type A=canon for canon's sake, Type B=canon as a gateway to fic.
You know what would have been more interesting than the woman gives up all for romantic love plot line? If they'd reversed it and had Peter be the one losing his memories and having to choose whether to integrate into the new universe, sans himself in a sense, or go the way of the rest of his timeline and not be at all.
Ooh! That would have been so much better, and more plausible with regards to the metaphysics of the whole thing, too!
I really liked the way that Peter, in the last few episodes, was choosing to do the right thing and not become involved with Olivia while there were unpleasant lack-of-consent and identity issues floating around. And now ... I guess it doesn't matter anymore?
Pfeh. So many more interesting things they could have done. I think one problem with Fringe right now is that they're not sure if it's coming back for another season, so I'm guessing that they're trying to wrap up plotlines and get it to a place where they can leave it if they don't get renewed. But throwing characterization under the bus in order for that to happen makes me frowny.
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I'm not super fannishly invested, though, which is probably a good thing. I expect I'll be watching in season five, if there is a season five, but if things keep going like they have been, I'll probably be bailing eventually too.