sholio: (Who-Rose)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2011-06-05 10:20 am
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More on Doctor Who 6x07

All in all, I found this episode very "meh" for a pre-hiatus cliffhanger.

There was stuff I liked! I loved Amy's little speech at the beginning to Melody, how you start off thinking that she's talking about the Doctor and then it turns out that when the chips are down, her knight in shining armor is Rory. D'awwww. ♥ And I am ridiculously fond of Rory running around in the centurion armor (even if the "last centurion" thing makes NO SENSE AT ALL) and getting to go all hero-mode -- I love Rory for similar reasons to why I loved Mickey in the first couple of seasons of New Who, and I think his character arc is rather similar. In general, I am desperately fond of reluctant heroes who discover their inner hero-ness. And the lizard lady and her maid are too awesome, really, though it wasn't until the Doctor mentioned her avenging her sisters that I realized where we'd seen her before.

I am awfully fond of doomed last stands, too, so I loved that bit -- though I wish it had been set up better, and that it hadn't come about because everyone just stood around dithering for ages after finding out they'd been led into a trap, rather than retreating to the TARDIS Iike sensible people (and like I'd been loudly informing them for several minutes that they SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING, but no one on TV ever listens to me).

And there were lots of little character-focused bits and pieces sprinkled throughout that I really liked. The Doctor asking Rory if he's okay with the Amy-hugging was a bit that made me squee in particular. I think he still doesn't understand Amy and Rory's relationship (I loved all the bits where he's embarrassed and/or confused about human sexual reproduction/courtship rituals; personally I don't need the Doctor to be asexual, necessarily, though I prefer him that way, but I loved the hat tip to the fact that, even if he looks human, he's not, and he's still going to be confused by some of the things humans do), but even if he doesn't quite get it, I loved that he acknowledges that it's important, that it matters to them -- to both of them -- and that he's willing to tread a little more lightly than usual to accommodate it.

But the rest of the episode, well ...

It just felt like they tried to stuff in too many things, and for having had the entire season to set it up, it just didn't feel very well set up at all. This episode felt to me like a whole lot of random stuff all thrown together, spending way too much time on bits that turned out to be extraneous to the plot, like the entire character of the female Marine who got killed at the end -- I liked her, but I think in terms of the episode as a whole that it would have been much better served by spending less time with her (a random OC who dies at the end) and more time on the main characters setting up the rescue. The jerky stop-and-start time-jumps and frequent scene changes made me feel like they really needed to have spread this out over two or three episodes rather than shoehorned into one. Many of my problems with this episode are similar to problems I had with the second half of the two-parter at the beginning of the season. Moffat is really good at the tightly focused horror and character stuff, where he takes a single creepy or character-centric idea and spins it out over an episode, but I don't feel like he does "epic" nearly as well -- his "epic" episodes tend to feel like he's trying to write the same kind of ep that he normally does (small-scale, taking-place-in-your-living-room kind of episodes) but set against a sweeping backdrop of interstellar war and it just doesn't work. For me, anyway. This episode felt draggy and disjointed and like it was in need of either a really good edit (trimming the extra characters' scenes; giving us more setup for everything that happened) or a couple more episodes to spread out the interactions of all the characters and let the action scenes breathe a bit.

RTD was not by any means perfect, but he was much better at balancing the character vs. the epic in his larger-scale episodes, I think. This episode felt like the result of someone who really doesn't think in terms of big-picture, splashy space battles trying to write one, and kinda falling down at it.

And then there's the River revelation, which ... I am still figuring out how I feel about that. I'd actually guessed all the way back in episode 2 that the little girl regenerating in the alley was River ( ... which makes me wonder why she didn't regenerate when she died in the Library episodes?) and I guessed as soon as "Melody's" name was mentioned that she'd turn out to be River in the end, as she did. I don't know if I'm happy with how the setup was written for that, either -- I am just about 100% sure that they didn't plan it before this season and even in this season, I never, ever got the sort of vibe from Amy and Rory's interactions with her that would have laid the groundwork for this. (Though I do need to rewatch River's earlier episodes to be sure about that.)

One aspect of it that I love is that she was raised to be a weapon (I love it when we get a plausible in-canon explanation for characters' badassery skills) and, even better, that she was raised to kill the Doctor and ended up befriending him instead. I am really looking forward to seeing how that plays out, especially since she's almost certainly the person in the spacesuit who shoots him at the beginning of the season. (Oh, and now I wonder if River's nausea in the season opener was caused by getting so close to herself, or crossing her own time stream? SPECULATE!)

But I dislike having so much of the mystery around River stripped away in one blow. I loved her as a cipher who kept you guessing, and anything that "explains" who River is ... inevitably is going to be a little bit of a disappointment when the character has been set up as this mysterious adventurer who could be anyone or anything. Not that there isn't some mystery around her still, but I'm unhappy that we've lost that fundamentally cryptic, "why is she helping us?" aspect of her, which I had really loved.

And this episode really did sideline Amy quite badly, reducing her to little more than a damsel in distress. I am always quite fond of one character, gender aside, being saved from a dangerous situation by others who love them, so I'm not necessarily hating the fact that she needed to be rescued at all, but the way she wasn't doing anything to rescue herself bugged me a lot. I loved, at first, the bit where she asks the Marine for her gun, and then it's just a tossed-off joke and not actually an attempt to free herself, which, grrrr. I would have loved that exchange if it had gone along the lines of "Can I do anything to help?" "Yes, help me get out of here!" but it wasn't really that at all, because she's not trying to escape, just waiting passively to be freed. Gnarr.

I don't think this is precisely OOC for Amy -- I've complained earlier about how much it bugs me that Amy does have this passive streak in her character that comes up in particular where the Doctor is concerned. The character had an uphill road with me in the beginning because of the way that she arranged her entire life around him in the first Eleven episode, basically waiting her whole life in a holding pattern for him to come back; I don't think this would've bothered me so much if there'd been some kind of in-text acknowledgment that this was not entirely a good thing, and I think a lot of the later Rory stuff did a lot to fix it in my head (that she wasn't just sitting around taking dead-end jobs and waiting for the Doctor to rescue her, that she did go ahead and fall in love and start to build a life and so forth). But still. It does still come up occasionally (like the way that when the Doctor is supposedly dead in this season's premiere, she just stops trying to find solutions) and it's my least favorite thing about her character by a long shot, so I wasn't happy with the episode handing us a generous helping of wet-dishtowel!Amy, especially when the whole stolen-baby-in-a-lab plot (a trope I hate) was the catalyst for it. Do not want, show; do not want.

This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/348404.html with comments.
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[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2011-06-05 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
his "epic" episodes tend to feel like he's trying to write the same kind of ep that he normally does but set against a sweeping backdrop of interstellar war and it just doesn't work. For me, anyway.

Yeah...I kind of feel this. I think they're better than some (SPN has a similar small-scope/huge-story problem and handles it much worse) and they're not entirely unsuccessful for me, but I spend a lot of Moffat's epic eps asking WHY???? and then don't get answers, and it frustrates (in the opening 2-parter, wanted to know how they all ended up running about in different places; in this one I spent the whole ep wondering who the bad guys were and why they hated the Doctor and even by the end I still wasn't sure; eye-patch woman I don't think we're supposed to know but the soldiers and their secret base felt like it could've used more set-up. While as with earlier seasons there were often big gaps in the timeline but I never felt so confused by what was happening.)

I did think this ep did a better job than a lot of Moffat's previous of introducing a diverse cast of chars who were mostly lovable from the moment of their introduction (even if he cheated a bit, because how can you not love Victorian interspecies lesbians with swords?! ^^ and the Sontaran nurse was both funny and caring, which combination is pretty irresistible.)

...Though the female soldier kind of irritated me just because I am getting a bit weary of the young-girl-meets-the-Doctor-and-then-grows-up-with-her-whole-life-based-around-that-fateful-encounter scenario which Moffat can't get enough of. If he'd even vary it a little (a young boy meets him! a non-human girl meets him! heck a non-white girl meeting him would be a change!) I wouldn't mind it as much, because it is an interesting concept--but the consistency with which it appears in his stories is starting to enter fetish territory...

(wait, the Christmas Carol story was with a young boy. Though for some reason with him it went backwards, with the Doctor doing it deliberately after meeting his un-Doctor-encountered future self. Still...can we get another plot? eventually?)
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[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2011-06-05 09:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I wouldn't be surprised if we never get a better explanation for eyepatch-lady and how she found out about the TARDIS baby and got her hands on Amy (though I wouldn't mind being wrong, if they do go back and explain it in the rest of the season -- I'm just not holding my breath).

Well, considering right now she has River!baby, I'm hoping they do get back to her? But, yeah...not entirely confident.

(extra spoiled after reading One Piece, where you can be confident that as long as Oda-sensei doesn't die, we are going to get answers to pretty much everything. Damn few series that's true for, and it makes the speculation more satisfying to know that there really are details to be uncovered, rather than just us reading more into things than the author bothered with...!)

Whereas Moffat's characters get stuck, because meeting the Doctor becomes the high point of their life, and then they either spend their whole lives wanting to get back to him, or being wistful and nostalgic about it.

Yeah...RTD had a bunch of people who met the Doctor and were changed by it, but I can't remember the specific case of meeting the Doctor as a young girl and then meeting him again as an adult, years later for their timeline but not nearly so long for him (could be misremembering, though?)

[livejournal.com profile] bagheera_san, as a fan of old & new Who (including a lot of the extended canon), has overall been less than impressed with Moffat's run, and this has been one of her biggest problems, that the Doctor is supposed to be a positive force in peoples' lives - that he brings chaos and wreaks havoc, but the people he gets close to come out of it better and stronger and more alive. While as Eleven's Companions end up almost pathologically dependent on him - trusting him even when they know he's lying and concealing things from them, waiting for rescue rather than rescuing themselves. I don't tend to see it quite as darkly as she does, but there are elements that are kind of undeniable.
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[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2011-06-06 06:27 am (UTC)(link)
For me, one of the differences with Rose was that it was pointed out in the show that Rose's involvement the Doctor wasn't entirely a good thing - that it alienated her from the other people in her life, that she lost Mickey to it, and it was coming between her and her mother. It didn't say their relationship was bad, but it at least pointed out some of the problems with it. While as I don't feel that counterbalancing with Amy, or with River or Rory - yes, they've suffered for being drawn into the Doctor's madness, but they keep coming out on top and the ultimate implication is that it's worth it, while not really showing the negative effects, what they might be losing.

Part of that is that all the Companions of previous New Who had ties to Earth, families they were leaving behind, while Amy and Rory and River don't - Amy didn't even have parents for her first season, and they haven't been mentioned at all in this one. And nothing's been said of Rory's family or mates or whatever. I think that might be why they seem so co-dependent on the Doctor, because he seems to be all they really have, other than each other; they have nothing else to lose. And River's relationship to them now makes their group even more insular...

Even River ... I love River as an individual, but as part of the rather troubling pattern, my God, if there ever was a character whose life was defined by the Doctor ...!

...That's the biggest problem I've had with Moffat for a while. Individually his characters are fun and his stories appealing (and he can write a wicked turn of phrase!), but some of his overall, recurring patterns really bother me, and I have a hard time not seeing them once I've noticed them.
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[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2011-06-06 07:44 am (UTC)(link)
...Who was the Silurian lady, anyway? Was she one of the ones we met before? Or was she from another ep I'm forgetting? I hadn't realized she was a returning char, I thought she was just the same species...?

And yeah, it's odd that he didn't go back to some chars we've met before - Queen Liz, yes! (bringing back Mark Sheppard's char would've been harder, since I think he's in America nowadays.)

I think some of the isolation is a matter of taste/style - I know that some old-school fans have been preferring Moffat because he's more doing it old-school, when the Companions didn't visit home much, and some fans got annoyed with RTD giving them personal lives. And I didn't really know old school Who at all before; I've only seen eps since I started watching New Who, and from my perspective RTD kept most of what I like in the old show while doing away with things I didn't like; while as Moffat's choices of new-to-old are less to my tastes. So most of it I can't really complain...well, I can, obviously, but it's the sort of "he's not writing for meeeeee!" whining that doesn't really say anything about how good the show is on its own (though some of his issues with female chars I will maintain are objectively problematic.)

... though this discussion is making me want to go back and rewatch the first season of New Who for old times' sake. ^^ I remember how captivated I was by the first few episodes, how I was so totally swept away by its wide-open sense of wonder and possibility.

This is why I loved Gaiman's ep so, because that's exactly what it felt like to me - just brought all the love back. If nothing else I have to enjoy this season for that! <3

[identity profile] rheanna27.livejournal.com 2011-06-06 07:38 am (UTC)(link)
...and like I'd been loudly informing them for several minutes that they SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING, but no one on TV ever listens to me...

I KNOW. What is up with that? They don't listen to me either.

Overall, I liked it more than you, although there were flaws. I agree that Moffat is best at small scale, character-focused, 'creeping horror' type eps, and that doesn't always translate into the big, epic finale-type episodes. Although on the whole I prefer Moffat's scripts for those eps over RTD's, because while RTD could do some great character stuff, his big plots always felt weak to me -- he could set up stuff brilliantly, but the pay-off was often rushed or very handwavey (sort of, 'look at the shiny things and don't think too hard about what's actually happening!') Where he pulled it off, as in the very first season's 'Bad Wolf' finale with Rose channelling the TARDIS, it was great, but when it didn't it lost me completely. Moffat, I think, tends to be stronger on plotting, although he too often succumbs to the temptation to be too clever about things: not so much, "I will show you the gun in the first act that will be used in the third act" as "a gun will be used in the third act and I will subsequently reveal that it was there all along in the first act because someone travelled back in time to put it there and there was an invisibility force field in place around it".

I also think that what you highlight as an issue with Amy's passivity at times isn't unique to her, it's a problem they've allowed to creep in with virtually all the female companions in New Who: they all, to some extent, end up letting their adventures with the Doctor define them and allowing the rest of their lives to become less important. Martha crushed on the Doctor (and eventually realised she had to walk away for her own emotional health), Donna's experience with him led her to go and search him out and to declare she wanted to keep travelling with him forever, Rose ended up devastated at being separated from him, even though she was in a universe where her father was alive and she was with all the people she cared about. In one way, I think Amy's actually done better than some of her predecessors, because her relationship with Rory is written as being just as important to her as travelling with the Doctor.
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[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2011-06-06 08:05 am (UTC)(link)
Not to speak for Friendshipper, but...for me the difference is that with the other Companions, the issue of their dependency on the Doctor was raised - Rose was questioned by Mickey and her mother, even though she kept on with it; Martha brought up the problems with it herself and walked away; Donna...Donna I think was a different case anyway, because she was neither passive nor dependent but sticking with the Doctor partly for the joy of traveling and partly because she realized that someone needed to be with him for the sake of the universe - he was more dependent on her if anything. The problem with Amy being dependent on the Doctor is only raised insofar as it interferes with her relationship with Rory; that it might be bad for her personal growth isn't really addressed. And with regards to Rory it's something of a cheat anyway, because Amy didn't have to choose; she can get the Doctor & TARDIS-travel & Rory.

I wonder that this might be deliberate - a theme of RTD's Who seemed to be that the Doctor was wonderful-but-terrible, that it's great fun to travel with him but going with him might not be the best thing to do; and Moffat is offering a counterpoint, that no, look, sometimes it's all right to just go off and have adventures. It's one of the things that, to my mind, makes Moffat's Who a little more kid-aimed; it's a little less emotionally mature/complex. Which I don't think is a bad thing - a story doesn't need to be complex to be compelling, and sometimes just having adventures is cool! But it gets problematic when it intersects with things that are more questionable (such as Amy always relying on the Doctor - and now Rory - to rescue her while doing nothing to save herself - and that I blame on the writer, not the char; being brave and faithful is admirable but he could've shown her trying to do more.)