sholio | *tears out hair*

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tears out hair

Man. Plotting is my kryptonite, and for some reason it's far worse with original fic than fanfic. I don't know why, but while I can more or less hold together a plot in fanfic, when I'm confronted with the infinite sea of possibilities that original fiction has to offer, it's incredibly difficult for me to settle on any given option.

Case in point is this sci-fi novel I've been working on. I've even gone so far as to write the first 5-6 chapters twice -- well, a lot more than twice, actually, but there's a major, plot-critical decision that I simply can not make, and I tried writing it both ways and still can't decide.

The decision that's flummoxing me is whether to set the whole story on Planet A (world which has colonies) or Planet B (world which is a colony of Planet A). The plot would still work in either case, and both options have pros and cons. If I set it on Planet A, then the plot is much tighter, and more focused on the main plot thread; setting it on Planet B introduces a whole host of complications and a large subplot that's really hard to eliminate without leaving a hole. Planet A also works much better thematically; it's just a whole lot tighter. However, setting it on Planet B solves a bunch of sticky plot problems as well, including making it easier to get the main characters in one place without relying too heavily on coincidence. Being able to contrast the two planets side-by-side also gives me a graceful way to explain the rather complicated political and physical mechanics of the universe -- if I keep it confined to the more limited canvas of Planet A, there's no opportunity to explain this stuff until pretty late in the novel, and some of it might never become clear without having to infodump.

Aargh!

For the writer types out there, do you run into that sort of thing, in either fanfic or original fic -- where you have two (or more) equally attractive options: you could have the main character be a cop or a hairdresser, for example, or you could go with pairing A/B or B/C, and you just can't decide, with either option seeming equally attractive? How do you handle it? Just say "screw it", pick an option and start writing? Do you outline it to see where each option would take you? Do you throw the story in a drawer and work on one that's less of a problem?

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I ask people - what works best if ultimately I want X to happen? But my plotting tends to go in layers - I write the big plot, and then let it steep in beta where all the plot holes i didn't see are pointed out to me. I go back, I rewrite, rinse, repeat. It tends to be less 'what direction should I go' than 'how do I fill that glaring plothole' in my writing :D

If it's helpful to know - I like the sound of pulling in Planet B for all the reasons you articulated.

*nods* I think that making these sorts of decisions in terms of getting the later parts of the plot to work is a sensible and functional solution. Unfortunately, I guess the problem here is that it'd work either way, because the plot calls for them to leave Planet A/B for the last third (or so) of the book -- the big thrust of the plot up to that point involves trying to get *off* the world. And, actually, that's one strike against Planet B that I didn't think about, because the Planet B-specific subplot would basically vanish once they leave the planet; it doesn't figure into the finale, and there's no graceful way to pull it in.

Perhaps I should sit down and make a list of all the pros/cons for each one; that might help!

At some point, I think I'm just going to have to relax, get the rough draft out, and then fix the holes in beta, like you said.

I run into that all the time!! It resolves itself in different ways-- sometimes by me writing it all one way until I get so frustrated with the fact it just won't work that I try writing it the other way; sometimes the story itself comes up with the solution by hitting me over the head with it halfway through; sometimes I throw the story in a drawer and let my subconscious work on it. Unfortunately, that last solution has led one particular story to be on hold for five years now. (ARGH)

My suggestion: Since your problem is really a choice, setting A or setting B, can you take parts from both and create, essentially, a setting C that would work? Keep the best of A but throw in whatever it is about B that resolves your sticky plot problems?

Also, if it helps, I often find whichever solution I'm resisting the most ("I don't WANNA do that! It's too hard and too time consuming and I don't want to!") ends up being the one that ultimately works best... and is less frustrating because I'm pushing through rather than struggling and trying to talk myself into/out of something.

If it helps, I'd be happy to look at stuff if you want a second opinion. I don't want to give too much info out about myself on the open web, but suffice it to say I help friends/co-workers/others with this kind of thing all the time.

Also, if it helps, I often find whichever solution I'm resisting the most ("I don't WANNA do that! It's too hard and too time consuming and I don't want to!") ends up being the one that ultimately works best... and is less frustrating because I'm pushing through rather than struggling and trying to talk myself into/out of something.

Hmmm! That's an interesting way to look at it ... I'm going to have to think about that.

My suggestion: Since your problem is really a choice, setting A or setting B, can you take parts from both and create, essentially, a setting C that would work? Keep the best of A but throw in whatever it is about B that resolves your sticky plot problems?

I was thinking about doing something sort of similar ... taking the aspects of Planet B that make it attractive as a setting, and moving them to Planet A. It doesn't work perfectly, though.

I guess the fact that I'm having *so* much trouble deciding probably means that it doesn't matter all that much which one I choose -- either one will probably have ups and downs when it comes to actually writing it!

I tend to outline and find that one ends up working better than the other for reasons I wouldn't have guessed until I otherwise got there.

If not wanting coincidence is the primary reason for setting B, it seems like finding a reason not to make it just coincidence might solve that, too. (Without knowing more, it's hard to suggest what, though...)

I think I need to learn to outline. I've always sucked at it. I've tried outlining some of my projects in detail, but I once I actually started writing/drawing them, I went off the outline and rambled off in a whole new direction almost immediately. *g* Maybe this will be a good opportunity to learn ...

It happens! I had a plot with two possibilities and I liked both options, a lot!! I almost wished I could write two versions of the fic!! Anyway, if I'd made a decision soon after having the plot idea, I think the fic would have been written and posted by now - my lack of a decision at that time has consigned it to the WIP folder that, to be honest, is full of fics that aren't going to get finished!

So, I sympathise and hope that you are able to make a decision (unlike me) and that the story doesn't founder (like mine)! A list of pros and cons might help, maybe?

You know, thinking about it, I think one thing about fanfic that makes it, hmm, less pressure than original fic in this kind of situation is that the possibility, at least, *does* exist of doing both. In practice, writing two fanfics that are very similar except for one plot point is something a person probably wouldn't do often, if at all ... but the possibility is there, you know? Writing it one way doesn't mean that canon is locked into that one thing being true forevermore. And even if it affects this one story, it doesn't affect your other stories. Whereas in original fic, once you've made that decision, it's going to influence how you write the characters from now on -- it has to. That particular set of characters are locked into exploring the ramifications of whatever plot decision you've made. It's an intriguing difference that I hadn't really thought about much.

Oh yes, in fanfic you have more freedom to AU not only canon but your own stories - or write stories that are different, but have a common idea (like, for eg, Rodney as a Pegasus native - I've several versions of that idea, though only one has been published!).

Of course, it does depend on your attitude to fanfic. For me, I see it as a place to play with my ideas - all of them - and if my writing improves, then that's an added bonus. But it's not my focus - in fact, I realised recently that I've been focussing so much on improving my writing/story-telling, that it had become a chore not a joy. So, future fics might not be as well-rounded as, say, The Journey, but I'm not going to apologise for that. It's either not get so worried and caught up in fine details, or stop writing once the current WIP is finished. I'm hoping people would prefer the former, not the latter! *bg*

There are other people, though, who see fanfic as a way to improve their writing and launch themselves into original fic and publication, and so they will take it much more seriously. But even then, you have more freedom to play with canon - and you don't have to world build from scratch, so it's easier too!

I don't think original fic is for me, though I have a greater admiration for those who can write it, and write it well, since starting my fanfic journey a few years ago! How do you do it? Hold an entire original world in your head? I struggle to world build for my SGA AUs, let alone from scratch! And original characters? Sometimes I can do them, but often not!!

No, original fic is NOT for me!! *bg*

There are other people, though, who see fanfic as a way to improve their writing and launch themselves into original fic and publication, and so they will take it much more seriously. But even then, you have more freedom to play with canon - and you don't have to world build from scratch, so it's easier too!

Yeah ... I honestly don't think it's an either-or thing, though. I started writing fanfic because it was a sort of playground for me, where I didn't have to worry about all those nitpicky little plotting and world-building details that I obsess about in original fiction ... not to mention bigger concerns of "where can I sell this?" and "Is this too long for this market?" In fanfic, none of that matters. It's marvelously freeing.

The fact that it's made me a better and more self-aware writer is a nice fringe benefit, but not why I did it in the first place. Actually, like you were talking about, the more pressure I put on myself to write well in fanfic, the less I write. I think this is one of the big reasons why I've written so much less lately than I did when I first got into SGA fandom.

Edited 2010-07-19 19:44 (UTC)

That particular set of characters are locked into exploring the ramifications of whatever plot decision you've made.

I wonder, would looking at how the setting effects the characters help make the decision? Where do you want the characters to end up (thematically as well as emotionally and physically)? How do you want them to be when they start? That might be one way to decide.

Or, it could be no help at all. :) The thought just struck me when I read your comment so I thought I'd pass it along.

It's a good suggestion, though, actually, I've realized now that I'm thinking about it that one of the reasons why it's so hard to decide is because the emotional/thematic arc for one of the main characters works better if she's on Planet A, but the other main character's arc works better on Planet B. I want them in the same place, though. *headdesks*

Hmm... exchange program? Heh. Yeah, I got nothing. :) Hopefully all this talking out will help and an apple will fall. The eureka moment's always more fun the bigger the obstacle, right?

Would you mind if I linked to this from

writers_lair?

Sure, go ahead. :)

This is largely the reaosn why my story writing efforts rarely get any further than chapter 1 or chapter 2. once I get it out into teh "wider world" then I get inundated with ideas but nothing I can grab onto and chase:(..

I tend to move onto other ideas.. but then i suck and never finish the previous idea... (goldfish story writer i am) :/

this is why i am a sucky writer but a good reader:D

which i realise is largely unhelpful for your post. But is a measure of solidarity for your predicament:D:D

*laughs* Thanks for the solidarity! I really don't think it's suckiness, per se, because it is really hard to settle down and focus on just one of the many bajillion options out there. I mean, perhaps it's easy for some people, but it's certainly never been easy for me!

I'm going though this very thing right now with my current SGA story. To have "this" situation happen or to wait and have it happen later? Normally I go with whatever gut reaction happens to be the strongest - if I really, really feel like doing "this" then that's what I should do. Or I go by what feels logical, what makes the most sense. But there are times when the answer is elusive, when situation A and situation B both seem equal, with neither one striking me as being better than the other.

But my current story I'm kind of making up as I write since it decided to steer clear of most of my outline. My plan is to read through what I have already written and basically let the story tell me what to do. If that doesn't work, then I'll send it to my alpha reader for her opinion.

You mentioned above listing the pros and cons of each idea. Do that. I find writing things out, whether it's the story, an outline, notes on the world and characters or even a pros and cons list can help to make the story a little more clear. You may also need to buckle down and outline. Not necessarily a detailed outline but to list what you have in mind for both options because, again, having it in front of you - even in the form of short, sweet sentences - might help.

*nods* I did actually list the pros and cons. I'm still on the fence, but it did help me a lot with figuring out what were the essential elements that I wanted to keep. I think outlining is a good suggestion, but I'm really struggling with it. (Outlining. I hate it so!)

I think that what I really need to do is just buckle down, pick something and write it. From the look of things, there will be good and bad things about either approach, but I'll never get anywhere if I don't hack together a rough draft.

Hmmm, this is an interesting dilemma. Ordinarily, I would say try to avoid coincidence as much as possible, so that seems a valid reason to choose B. But the sideplot is also potentially an issue. I guess my question would be, which setting works better with your character arc(s)? Because to my mind, character arc trumps everything else (even in Sci Fi).

So if the sideplot pulls us away from the characters without advancing their arcs, I'd try to avoid it. But if it illuminates or advances the character arc, it's worth writing, never mind what the central plot needs.

Just from the way you talk about it, it sounds like B is richer and allows more natural worldbuilding, which is no small thing in original Sci Fi.

As for what I'd do if I were writing it? Probably just pick one, write the whole darn thing, realize it doesn't work, and rewrite from scratch. So, you know, do as I say, not as I do. ;D

As for what I'd do if I were writing it? Probably just pick one, write the whole darn thing, realize it doesn't work, and rewrite from scratch. So, you know, do as I say, not as I do. ;D

bwaha. That is exactly what I tend to do. Actually, in some sense it's what I've already done with this story, except not all the way to the end ... but I have all these starts, in the 10-15K word range, going in totally different directions until they fall into a plot hole and I start over again somewhere else. (Shorter: Writing is haaaard. *g*)

I think you're right about B making a more natural-feeling story, which is important. I guess my biggest problem with B is that it introduces extra elements which are extremely hard to tie into the finale that I had in mind. But if I can come up with a graceful way to tie them off, that might work ... hmm. And I like what you have to say about character arcs.

I'm having major problems with plotting in a few different fics, so I know what you mean. Part of the problem for me is that I'm not used to needing to plot; I've always written knowing where I want to end up. Lately, though, I've had plot ideas that start a story and then no idea where to go from there.

For one, I tried throwing the question to alpha readers, with mixed results and no real answer. I have 14k words of what feels to me like setup; do I go with the totally cliched rescue plot to round out the story and lead into the resolution of the emotional setup? Do I convert what I have into the actual full plot, which would probably work as fanfic but feels truncated to me? Totally stuck. For another, I had ideas for three loosely-tied ficlets to finish a series ... and I keep having Möbius problems with the various elements. (None of them wants to go first!)

I have to wonder if part of it is a sort of performance anxiety. I ran across a reference to my first fic, saying that it started better than it ended, and I realized that's really an entirely fair assessment of that story ... and of my larger plot arcs in general. I generally use the modern technique of starting with a fairly active sequence rather than slowly easing the reader into the story, but I have no idea how to shape the rest of the story accordingly. So of course I want to end all my current projects strongly, which makes my problems getting there all the worse.

Feh. I need to find a good way to learn technical stuff like this.

So that this comment isn't all about me: Yours does seem like a very tough choice. The only thing that gives me pause is that I hate coincidence plotting, so that would be a strike against that plot for me ... unless you can find a way to avoid that. You've noted that one character is served better by A, and the other by B, but you want them together; I don't think this will really solve anything, but given the setting, is there a way to keep them functionally together even if spatially parted? (Comm systems, bodysharing, mysterious back-and-forth transportation ... that question really depends on what kind of world you've built, of course.)

I have to wonder if part of it is a sort of performance anxiety. I ran across a reference to my first fic, saying that it started better than it ended, and I realized that's really an entirely fair assessment of that story ... and of my larger plot arcs in general. I generally use the modern technique of starting with a fairly active sequence rather than slowly easing the reader into the story, but I have no idea how to shape the rest of the story accordingly. So of course I want to end all my current projects strongly, which makes my problems getting there all the worse.

*nods* I think that part of the problem for me is that I've become much more analytical about my plotting process, and more aware of the failings of things I've written in the past -- so I want my new work to be better! But in the process, I'm analyzing it to death, and making myself too paralyzed to write.

Hi!
I kind of wanted to ask you a question. It might seem out of the blue and you don't know me at all but I love your writings and you said you're working on a novel and I figured, why not.
If you were a German native speaker, or any other than English, would you write your scifi novel in English, even though your English isn't perfect, or in German? Considering that the market for all things scifi isn't located in the German speaking parts of the world? I've been asking myself that question for quite some time now. Both options have ups and downs. Don't know. I just want to hear other opinions. What would you do?
~Smartie

Hmm! Actually, someone else I know on LJ,

trobadora, was just pondering this on her journal a few months back. (Her language is German, too.) And I'll tell you the same thing I told her -- my advice would be to do it in your native language, not because of fluency or lack of it in English, but because I think it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than one small fish in a whole pond full of fishes. *g* Look at it this way: there are thousands and thousands of sci-fi novels in English, and many more people trying to get them published. Your story, no matter how good, gets lost in the crowd! But if you're one of only a few people writing scifi in German, then I think you give yourself a much better chance of being *noticed* -- you might not be able to achieve runaway publishing success, but you'd have an audience who is craving what you're writing and can't get it from anywhere else. And not just from a publishing standpoint ... you'd have readers, fans, who really *appreciate* what you write, because very few other authors are writing just for them.

Most of the publishing books that I've read recommend that you forget about writing what everyone else is writing -- the thing to do is to write what everyone else *isn't* writing! And I think the same thing applies here.

(Of course, maybe the story would speak to you in one language or the other, so maybe that would be a determining factor, too! And I'm your basic stereotypical monolingual American, so take all of this as purely theoretical rather than based on personal experience. :) You could also ask

trobadora what made her choose the way she did -- you can tell her I sent you, if you like!)

Thank you! I never looked at it from that angle. I'll have to think about that. It's actually a good question if the story works in both languages or not. Thank you!

Origianl fic is generally not a problem for me. In so far as creating it, I mean. Actually FINISHING the story is most of the problem. I have, perhaps, around eight or so boxes of unfinished stories, and those are only the ones that have survived the hundreds of moves over my lifetime.

Original fiction is actually quite easy for me, because you can create SO MUCH that fanfiction won't allow you to. Also, in original fiction, you can do whatever you want without worrying about the consequences or whatnot. Outlines, drafts, and such are quite easy to come-by, but my main problem-as before, is actually finishing the story. I start on one, get an idea about half-way through, and then go to that story and then it starts all over again, which is why I have so many uncompleted novels/novellas. (Altho lately, its gotten a bit easier on finishing stories, because I simply pick one and STICK TO IT.)

I think I like Planet A, though because it sounds...simpliar. Some of the sci-fi stuff is sometimes to complicated to understand no matter how hard you try, and simple is sometimes the easier way to go.

I just went brain-dead in what I was trying to say. Grrrargh. Oh well, I hope everything works out for you! :D

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