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Due South season one (most of it)
So, we're watching Due South, slowly but surely -- well, re-watching, in my case. We really don't watch much TV in general, aside from the handful of shows that we follow week to week; something has to really catch our eye in order to want to binge on it. So far, DS is a show that we can watch in little dribs and drabs, here and there, when we want to kick back with an episode or two.
We've watched up to the end of the Victoria's Secret 2-parter -- and yes, I know what you're thinking, but I watched it back in its original run on TV, so I'm not particularly bothered by the cliffhanger since I know how it ends, and hubby doesn't get into the emotional arcs the way that I do. I do remember how shriek-inducing that cliffhanger was when I watched it as an h/c-loving teenager, though...
It's actually quite fascinating, watching a show that I first saw when I was in a very different place, literally and emotionally. Back then, I only saw the first season or two; I do know what happens later, casting-wise -- you'd have to be living under a fan-rock not to -- but I think I only saw an episode or two from that part of the series, so it'll all be new to me when I get there. But, from the earlier part of the series, I vaguely remember a lot of the episodes, and a number of individual scenes in the episodes, but I'm seeing them through a different lens now, so to speak.
One of the big surprises is that I remember this show being really frustrating to me on a visceral, h/c/friendship level. I remember feeling like it teased but didn't deliver what I wanted out of it, emotionally. Which made me realize how much more attuned to nuance I am now than I was at 17, because wow, does it ever deliver! I'm really finding it just about perfect, actually -- too much overt emotion makes me squirmy (see: Supernatural), not enough leaves me emotionally flat. DS walks the middle line in a way I really like. Both Fraser and Ray are obviously important to the other, the friendship itself is important to them, but they've got individual lives, individual pasts. They're not joined at the hip. In fact, I really don't think they know each other very well. But they know what counts: they've got each other's back. I don't think this is a show that I could read slash for, at least not with Vecchio; besides just not seeing it, the loss of that individual autonomy would, I think, take away a lot of what I like about the show. They care about each other deeply as friends, but they don't need each other. I really like that.
I've also been skimming![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
truepenny's Due South reviews -- not reading every single one (I don't think I'm into the show that much) but browsing one here and there. And I came across something that really clicked with me, as far as how I relate to the characters, and why I like the characters I do, in the way that I do. From her review of "The Man Who Knew Too Little:
Ray's causes are different, personal. Fraser will sacrifice himself for an abstraction; for Ray it's about the people he loves.
I've always got the impression, looking in on DS fandom from the outside, that most DS fans are first and foremost Fraser fans -- this may be entirely wrong, but it's the impression I've received. I'm not; I never have been. And this, I think, is why. I like Fraser, but I don't love him; I don't always like Ray, but I love him utterly. Kind of like how I relate to Rodney -- I don't like some of the things he does, and I try to remember when I write him that he's quite often an unlikable person, but I find him impossible not to love. Ray, like Rodney, is not always nice, but he's fundamentally a good person. Fraser ... he's always nice, even in the most desperate situations, but I'm not entirely convinced he's good. Or maybe, like Carrot from the Ankh-Morpork books, he's too good. Fraser would never lie to you or insult you ... but he would use you, in the very nicest possible way. And I'm really afraid to think how far he'd go in pursuit of his ideals -- what he'd be willing to sacrifice. He might hate himself for doing it, but he'd do it. Even in "Victoria's Secret", when he basically has to choose between duty and love, and chooses love -- the way that he does it is, in its own way, as scary and obsessive as the way he pursues duty. It's like he doesn't know how to be any other way, and if he doesn't have the one force driving him, he has to substitute another in its place. His black and white value system might have shifted a little, but it's no less black and white.
I find it very difficult to relate to characters whose value system is based in abstracts. Petty, emotional motivations (jealousy and friendship, love and fear) are much easier for me to understand and sympathize with than grand ideals like justice and upholding the law -- the latter are far more interesting to me in the breach, where, say, the character's desire for justice comes into conflict with friendship or love, and love wins. I've been reading superhero comics for a long time, but it's not the paragons that I sympathize with; it's the second bananas and sidekicks and, occasionally, the villains. Fraser, in a lot of ways, reminds me of the superheroes that I find likable but remote. He's larger than life, hypercompetent to the point of absurdity; he's not quite a superhero and not quite a running joke, but at times, he's both. We see enough of his doubts and fears on the show to know that he has them, that he's human. But even after a season, I don't think I understand him well enough to write him at all. I sympathize instantly and automatically with Ray, where with Fraser I just don't -- he's more easily admired from arm's length.
We've watched up to the end of the Victoria's Secret 2-parter -- and yes, I know what you're thinking, but I watched it back in its original run on TV, so I'm not particularly bothered by the cliffhanger since I know how it ends, and hubby doesn't get into the emotional arcs the way that I do. I do remember how shriek-inducing that cliffhanger was when I watched it as an h/c-loving teenager, though...
It's actually quite fascinating, watching a show that I first saw when I was in a very different place, literally and emotionally. Back then, I only saw the first season or two; I do know what happens later, casting-wise -- you'd have to be living under a fan-rock not to -- but I think I only saw an episode or two from that part of the series, so it'll all be new to me when I get there. But, from the earlier part of the series, I vaguely remember a lot of the episodes, and a number of individual scenes in the episodes, but I'm seeing them through a different lens now, so to speak.
One of the big surprises is that I remember this show being really frustrating to me on a visceral, h/c/friendship level. I remember feeling like it teased but didn't deliver what I wanted out of it, emotionally. Which made me realize how much more attuned to nuance I am now than I was at 17, because wow, does it ever deliver! I'm really finding it just about perfect, actually -- too much overt emotion makes me squirmy (see: Supernatural), not enough leaves me emotionally flat. DS walks the middle line in a way I really like. Both Fraser and Ray are obviously important to the other, the friendship itself is important to them, but they've got individual lives, individual pasts. They're not joined at the hip. In fact, I really don't think they know each other very well. But they know what counts: they've got each other's back. I don't think this is a show that I could read slash for, at least not with Vecchio; besides just not seeing it, the loss of that individual autonomy would, I think, take away a lot of what I like about the show. They care about each other deeply as friends, but they don't need each other. I really like that.
I've also been skimming
truepenny's Due South reviews -- not reading every single one (I don't think I'm into the show that much) but browsing one here and there. And I came across something that really clicked with me, as far as how I relate to the characters, and why I like the characters I do, in the way that I do. From her review of "The Man Who Knew Too Little:Ray's causes are different, personal. Fraser will sacrifice himself for an abstraction; for Ray it's about the people he loves.
I've always got the impression, looking in on DS fandom from the outside, that most DS fans are first and foremost Fraser fans -- this may be entirely wrong, but it's the impression I've received. I'm not; I never have been. And this, I think, is why. I like Fraser, but I don't love him; I don't always like Ray, but I love him utterly. Kind of like how I relate to Rodney -- I don't like some of the things he does, and I try to remember when I write him that he's quite often an unlikable person, but I find him impossible not to love. Ray, like Rodney, is not always nice, but he's fundamentally a good person. Fraser ... he's always nice, even in the most desperate situations, but I'm not entirely convinced he's good. Or maybe, like Carrot from the Ankh-Morpork books, he's too good. Fraser would never lie to you or insult you ... but he would use you, in the very nicest possible way. And I'm really afraid to think how far he'd go in pursuit of his ideals -- what he'd be willing to sacrifice. He might hate himself for doing it, but he'd do it. Even in "Victoria's Secret", when he basically has to choose between duty and love, and chooses love -- the way that he does it is, in its own way, as scary and obsessive as the way he pursues duty. It's like he doesn't know how to be any other way, and if he doesn't have the one force driving him, he has to substitute another in its place. His black and white value system might have shifted a little, but it's no less black and white.
I find it very difficult to relate to characters whose value system is based in abstracts. Petty, emotional motivations (jealousy and friendship, love and fear) are much easier for me to understand and sympathize with than grand ideals like justice and upholding the law -- the latter are far more interesting to me in the breach, where, say, the character's desire for justice comes into conflict with friendship or love, and love wins. I've been reading superhero comics for a long time, but it's not the paragons that I sympathize with; it's the second bananas and sidekicks and, occasionally, the villains. Fraser, in a lot of ways, reminds me of the superheroes that I find likable but remote. He's larger than life, hypercompetent to the point of absurdity; he's not quite a superhero and not quite a running joke, but at times, he's both. We see enough of his doubts and fears on the show to know that he has them, that he's human. But even after a season, I don't think I understand him well enough to write him at all. I sympathize instantly and automatically with Ray, where with Fraser I just don't -- he's more easily admired from arm's length.
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I hadn't really thought about the whole Ray=McKay thing until writing the above and trying to puzzle out why I like Ray so much, but I think the two characters tend to hit my fiction-likes in very similar ways.
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The quality is not as good as what I'm used to for newer shows, but I'd been figuring that it was just because it's an older show and the quality wasn't that great to begin with. I do hate the menus on these discs, though -- there's no way to play an episode without going through the scene selection menu, so you just have to close your eyes and click through it or get spoiled! And then when it's done with the episode, it takes you back to scene selection and you have to navigate through it to get back to the main menu and choose another. I don't like it; I want to be able to play an episode with one click, or play the disk straight through.
memory lane
Due South was where I realised to write fanfic effectively I needed to like more than one protagonist. The mismatch of the characters: perfect, aloof, emotionally naive and (in my fics) emotionally abused Fraser versus volatile, complex, driven Vecchio was just the perfect recipe. And then the series kept throwing all these extra ingredients into the pot. Fraser wasn't as emotionally naive as I thought, he was repressed.
It was a series where I knew intellectually I was missing a lot of the subtlety and the in-jokes, but enjoyed it nevertheless. Ultimately the undercurrent that Paul Gross and David Marciano weren't that fond of each other turned me off it and then when Vecchio was replaced by RayII, I bailed. The emotional investment on my side was far too high for a telly programme *g*. It was exhausting. It would be interesting to re-watch the episodes
Re: memory lane
I'm pretty sure that going off to college had a lot to do with why I stopped watching the show; looking up dates on IMDB, it looks like the first full season of the show was the last year I lived at home, so that's why I only remember watching scattered episodes here and there from season 2 onwards. (I didn't have a TV in college, and I missed the final seasons of a whole lot of shows I've never gone back and caught up on, including DS9 and Babylon 5.) I wouldn't discover Internet fandom and fanfic for awhile yet, though ...
Character contrast, character friction has always been one of the main ingredients for me to love a show. I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with the change of Rays, though luckily I don't have to deal with it for awhile yet! So much of my liking of the show is tied up in my love of David Marciano and the way that he plays Ray. Knowing that he leaves, and the central relationship on the show is going to vanish/change, I think is a lot of what's preventing me from fanning on it more deeply; I'm just not really interested in getting that hooked into it, knowing that I'm going to lose the aspect that's reeling me in!
Re: memory lane
I knew that there had to be like minded people out there, but... geez... where??. The internets is pretty great. But I have to admit it would be pretty cool to have a mate living locally who I could hook up with for a good crack about fandom face-to-face.
It sounds like we were watching about the same time agewise. I carted my little portable telly off to Uuni with an old VCR. I was not going to go without my fix of SF. I remember contemplating a week of baked beans on toast versus buying a VHS tape of the BSDM episode of due South which was not going to be televised on the BBC -- and buying the tape \o/
character friction has always been one of the main ingredients for me to love a show.
I'm not massively fond of friction. I've rarely re-watched Trinity. Fairy Tales, FTW
I read ezazahaz comment -- it interesting in that back when due South was on I loved Fraser's strict adherence to a moral framework whereas if I was to write due South now it would be more about investigating dichotomy between the characters’ moral outlooks. I guess that's just age talking.
You should stay with it, even due to the Vechhio stuff – there’s a fair number of fans out there who really, really warmed to Calum Keith Rennie’s character. I didn’t but that’s just me.
Re: memory lane
We must be about the same age. I was actually much less fannish in college than I am now, or at least, fannish about different things -- college was when I got into anime and comics in a pretty big way. My online activity back then was basically mailing lists and Usenet, and it was mostly focused on book SF, fantasy and writing (original). It wasn't until around 1998/99 that I even discovered that fanfic existed (anime and Stargate SG1), and a couple more years before I got actively involved in media fandom. SGA is the first Western fandom where I've been involved in a major way; it was all anime fandoms before then, or Western fandoms like "Invisible Man" where I read the fic and visited the fan sites, but didn't really write it or engage with people socially.
Re: memory lane
yes, it was 1996/1997 when I discovered the resource which is
\o/ = fanfic^10 = fandom + internets
Re: memory lane
Your equation makes me giggle! Yeah, while I used to make up my own stories for the shows that I watched as a girl and young woman, and tell them to myself in my head at night, the idea of writing them down never even occurred to me. I had no model for it; everything that I read (and wrote) was original. Novelizations and spinoff novels was about as close as it came, but I still didn't have any mental model for fiction that wasn't published, if that makes any sense -- as I always wanted to be a pro writer, everything I wrote, I had in mind that the end result was to publish it (even though I understood that most of what I was writing would eventually be thrown away because it just wasn't that good). The whole idea of fanfic was very eye-opening for me, and I discovered it around the time that I also discovered 'zine subculture, i.e. comics that were folded and stapled and sold or handed around at conventions, not published like everything else I'd seen up to that point. The whole idea that you could do it all yourself, rather than relying on a publisher, thrilled me to no end.
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I am in 100% agreement with you. I love DS, but Fraser has just never done it for me. It's hard for me to care about a character who would sacrifice himself for a complete stranger as easily as for a loved one. I need someone to *show* that they care for someone or a few someones more than The Entire World. Some shows and movies even turn me off because they're far too focused on this abstract "Save everyone" and not enough on the friendship and love of a few people.
It reminds me of a quote from another old show, actually:
"There are two kinds of people in this life my friend. There are those who seek battle and seem not to fear death; like them. Then there are those who avoid battle, but will stand and fight to the death if their loved ones are threatened; like them. That is true courage."
IMHO, Ray and Rodney have true courage. Fraser would die to protect the honor of a box of cornflakes. Good for him, but it's the other characters I'm going to love.
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It's hard for me to care about a character who would sacrifice himself for a complete stranger as easily as for a loved one. I need someone to *show* that they care for someone or a few someones more than The Entire World.
Yes. That. I guess it probably says a lot about me as a fan (and maybe as a person) that someone laying down their life for the world doesn't move me nearly as much as someone who wouldn't normally stir a finger to save the world laying down their life for a loved one.
And that's where Fraser fails to engage me, because he's that way with everyone. I just keep thinking of Terry Pratchett's books, and Carrot, who is -- I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call him a send-up of that sort of character, because he's played too straight for that, but basically the hero type taken to its logical extreme. Carrot is a guy who's so good that, at one point, he leaves his girlfriend bleeding and maybe dying, and goes off to, basically, save the life of the guy who tried to kill her. One of the things I really like about those books is that, while Carrot's not an unlikable character, they also deal with how difficult it is for the people around him to actually care about someone like that. Due South does this a little bit, but mostly in an oblique way (the way that he presumes on Ray's friendship, for example).
Fraser's cool, casual heroism makes him entertaining to watch, but it doesn't make me love him, the way that I love Ray for throwing himself wholeheartedly into protecting and defending the people that he cares about.
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It's funny. For some reason, I'm reminded of another show where I was more fond of the "best friend" than the hero, and that was Evening Edition (At least, I think that's what it was called). I mean, I loved both the hero and the best friend, but I leaned towards the best friend there too, even though he was something of a slimeball at time. Maybe because he was a slimeball, but he'd still end up risking his life for his friend in the end. (Then he became painful comic relief...but before that, he was fun)
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I'm reminded of another show where I was more fond of the "best friend" than the hero, and that was Evening Edition
Early Edition? I never watched that -- well, not beyond a couple of random episodes, anyway, which didn't grab me. I didn't even know there was a slimeball best friend; I just vaguely remember a main character I didn't find interesting.
In order for a "buddy" show to really grab me, I need to fall for both the main characters (SGA; Red Dwarf; Psych; Invisible Man) but given a choice between a heroic main character and the quirky, odd or mildly sleazy best friend, I'll go for the latter nearly every time.
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But back to Due South...man, I loved that show. And, I'll tell you, the episode that always comes first in my mind is the one where they're traipsing through Canada, with Ray carrying Fraser, Ray bitching and moaning the whole time (but, of course, *never* leaving Fraser behind). I've used it a hundred different ways in fanfiction, because it had such an impact. I haven't seen it in a dozen years or more, but it's sort of a standard for me: the ideal that newer shows need to live up to. I don't have high expectations, do I?
(Oh, the quote up above? That's Ezra from Mag 7 the Series. The show itself never lived up to its potential, but Ezra was a great, great character...)
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Yes, very true! (Although, on Red Dwarf, I always adored both the boys about the same ... Lister was so adorable, and Rimmer so impossible to like at times ...) I think you and I probably enjoy similar sorts of characters, for similar reasons. I like the ones who have to struggle a bit, who are flawed but rise above it, who don't always make the right choices. And those types of characters tend not to be put in the "main character" slot. I always appreciate it when they are, though; or when you get shows like SGA, where most of the characters are less than perfectly heroic.
That episode was "North"! We haven't gotten there yet on the DVDs, but I still remember it very clearly from the show's original run ... the rest of the show may not have met my high adolescent standards for h/c *g* but that was one of my favorite friendship episodes of anything! And, actually, one thing I liked about that one, aside from Ray being thoroughly cool, was that Fraser was knocked down a little, and forced to confront his own perfectionistic tendencies -- and his perfectionist, duty-bound side lost out to the friendship side, which I thoroughly loved! Like I said above, I enjoy seeing characters put in situations where their dedication to duty and justice has to duke it out with their softer emotions, and it really made me like Fraser a lot better than, in a situation like that, he wasn't willing to "abandon" Ray to serve his sense of justice (of course, considering his physical impairment at that point, the conflict was mostly in his head anyway!).
I find Ray quite nice to look at, actually! He's no sex god, and Fraser (of course) isn't exactly hard on the eyes, but I enjoy looking at actors who are more real-person-looking than physically beautiful. And yes, his eyes are quite nice. :)
(M7 is an old show? I was trying to place the quote with shows from the 70s/80s! Or is it farther back than I thought? I ought to watch that one sometime ...)
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(Anonymous) 2008-10-30 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
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I just recently glutted myself on DS for the first time and was really taken (by the first two seasons in particular) - it ambled along and it was puppy cute and the most adorable thing ever and then would just side swipe you with gravitas and, as you say, emotional resonance that wasn't the constant lip trembling and tear dripping of Supernatural, and felt like more of a punch to the system because of it.
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And despite the horrid Ray V versus Ray K wars in the fandom, I think they're both worth watching, and I think Frasier's reactions to both of them are really interesting.
Have fun with the show!
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The rift in the fandom is sad. I was never in the fandom, but of course I'm vaguely aware of it just through fannish osmosis. At this point, I'm not really sure whether or not I'll be getting into the fanfic and the fandom of this show. It's not really one where I'm feeling a strong draw in that direction. But one never knows ...
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And while there are some fantastic fic and vids in the fandom, most of the focus seems to be slash (which is fine, but I do like me some good gen sometimes, yeah?).
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I confess I am one of those Fraser fans primarily - there's something about his emotional brokenness and repression that gets to me. It feels to me like he hides behind the rules and the concepts because, well, if that all falls away, he doesn't have anything else. But I do like Ray Vecchio very much, and Ray Kowalski (I think I'm one of the few who likes them both). They each brought a different dynamic to the show, and I enjoyed both.
I couldn't actually see slashing Vecchio and Fraser either - theirs was much more of a best friends/buddies type relationship. I can see where all the Fraser/RayK slash comes from, but maybe that's just because of reading about Paul Gross's comment that he and Callum Keith Rennie did play up the subtext there.
Thanks for the link to truepenny's reviews - I enjoyed reading them. :)
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I'm curious how I'll respond to Kowalski -- I think I'm probably going to need to think of it as a slightly different show, because in my head it's very much the "Fraser and RayV" show right now, and it may be difficult to change that. But I guess we'll see, when we get there!
And link away, by all means! I'm very flattered that you asked, and I never mind if people link to my posts.
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Yes! YES! I didn't see it during its original run; I saw it just over eight years ago, and I adore Fraser and Ray. (I never did get into Ray K.; we haven't seen all of that final season, but now we have them on DVD and will when we have time, if that ever happens.)
I can relate to Fraser--maybe because he's scary and obsessive. I fear that's what I would be without Brilliant Husband to balance me out.
I love David Marciano and I'm sad that he never got another good role like this.
Paul Gross is far more likeable as Geoffrey Tennant in Slings and Arrows, I think, but Fraser's interactions with Ray, and with his Dad, and with Dief!, made me love him too.
I don't often get to use this icon!
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David Marciano just vanished, didn't he? That *is* sad, and it's one of the things I wonder about with SGA -- will the actors turn up on other shows, or fade away?
I think I'm through the episodes I remember; "North" is the last one that I'm sure I saw, though I think there were scattered ones here and there from the rest of the series' run. But it's mostly new to me now!
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Part of the reason that Ray V disappeared was because David was doing other work. But yes, it's sad he's not done more high profile stuff, because I always found him highly entertaining. Not only entertaining though - yes, he had the humour beats down pat, but he could also bring the tragedy and the sadder notes too.
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Daniel Jackson from SG-1 is a character I find is a lot like Fraser. They're both very willing to sacrifice for the abstract. And Jack O'Neill is like Ray who is willing to sacrifice for only the personal. And I tend to connect with the Ray's and the Jack's. The Daniel's and Frasers tend to leave me cold. They're interesting characters, but I don't love them and connect with them the same way.
And I hadn't thought about it, but what you mention about Rodney and Ray being similar I can definitely see that. I once read a piece of meta a few years ago comparing Rodney and Daniel. I don't remember why it was those two, but it talked about how Rodney is the kind of person to sacrifice for the more personal while Daniel was more abstract.
Ray K. was okay, but he just didn't do it for me.
Anyway, I'm glad I found this. While I have never been very involved in the DS fandom beyond reading fanfic, I too feel like there's so much love for Fraser, but not much for Ray V. And the Fraser/Kawalsky slash has taken over in the fanfic.
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I never actually thought about Daniel that way, but looking at it, I see what you mean! I actually *was* a Daniel fan, back in the day (well, a fan of both Jack and Daniel); I think it probably depends on the character, and how their personality comes across. With Daniel, I think I related to how driven he was, by his need to find Sha're and by his anthropological geekiness. I love me a geeky man. :D I don't really seem to have found a similar toe-hold on Fraser -- but it might explain why I drifted away from Daniel as he grew ever more motivated by abstract concepts and less by personal love/loyalty as the show went on.
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I first watched DS in re-runs, not too long after they aired, on the good old BBC. At first I was a Fraser fan because he was the obvious good looking hero, but slowly I found myself liking Ray V.
Your comparison of Ray and Rodney is interesting, because Fraser and Sheppard share some commonalities too. Both are content with being loners but still manage to attract friends, both will go to extremes to do what they think is right, both repress their emotions, both "never see it coming".... OK the similarities stop there, but I think the fact that Ray V doesn't have that emotional repression contributes a great deal to why I switched over to him. Both Ray and John make me want to shake sense or SOMETHING into them, but I still love 'em!
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He is so dang cute.
*dies*
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That *SMILE*. Stunning.
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You know, after mapping Rodney onto Ray, I got to wondering if Sheppard and Fraser map onto each other; I don't know if I really see it, though. As you pointed out, they have a few things in common, but their basic personalities and drives are fairly different. (Well, I guess the same is true of Rodney and RayV in a lot of ways, though.)
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I watched the episode where Fraser is hurt so badly he's in hospital, but is still determined to help save his friend (Leslie Nielsen), so gets out of bed and follows on, ending up in a fight. THAT was very John Sheppard.
No, they don't map onto each other, and neither do Rodney and Ray, but there are characteristics they have in common, and John has more in common with Fraser and Rodney with Ray, than John and Ray and Rodney and Fraser.
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This is true; but my original point was that the specific characteristics that draw me to Ray and to Rodney as characters are fairly similar. They're very different people, but the things about them that are my favorites (well, aside from the actors playing them) are related. Whereas with John and Fraser, it's more random characteristics that they have in common -- it is possible to come up with a laundry list, but it doesn't have a whole lot of meaning and doesn't really speak to why I like or dislike the two characters.
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I'm not too sure where this is going.
I observed that there were similarities. The example I gave pinged very strongly for me. That's it.
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I am definitely a Ray Vecchio fan. He was just so awesome. Benny? Eh, he was ok, but I could relate more to Ray.
The cliffie at the end of Victoria's secret? Eh, not that interested. But, the end of the NEXT episode, "Letting Go"? O.M.G. My teenage self squeed and freaked out. Heh
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Okay, maybe it's time to coerce the husband into watching more episodes. *g*