Hmmm!

[sholio]

Interesting post on soulbonding here (discusses Star Trek, Elfquest, and fanfic).

This caught my attention through friendsfriends because I was just talking to naye about soulbonding, and in Elfquest specifically, in email not too long ago. As a trope, I kinda hate it (no offense to those who like it; it's just that the idea of having someone else in my head is so deeply creepy that I can't handle it portrayed in a positive sort of way). But in EQ, it never bothered me, and I think this post does a good job of articulating why sometimes it works for those of us who are at least mildly squicked by it, and sometimes it doesn't.

Comments

[naye]

Ooh, interesting!

At least that's how the first half my reading went. Then the sleepy part of my brain wanted in on things, and with that late-night thing it does, automagically added the word "whales" after every mention of "telepathic".


...

I DON'T KNOW. It makes it all really. Um. WEIRD?

Yeah. I'm going to sleep now. XD

[sholio]

*snort* ... I think telepathic whale soulbonding is too strange even for US.

automagically

I think you need sleep. XD

[naye]

*snort* ... I think telepathic whale soulbonding is too strange even for US.

EXACTLY! It would just be weird! And wrong. The whales don't love Rodney 'cause he somehow got tuned into their frequency and couldn't tune out again...!

automagically

I think you need sleep. XD

Hey, that's a great word! I even use it when I'm not in desperate need of sleep. XD

[flingslass.livejournal.com]

Soulbonding depends on the writer I think (but then I don't get very deep with the concept. If it's in the book I just go with it.) I guess I loved the Star Trek concept because I LOVED Sarek and Amanda. I love the novels based around them and Spock. But I agree with the comment that it's seems like a quick fix. They're soulbonded, you don't need to justify anything (and I just typed anythink *argh*) like it or lump it.
Usually I'm turned off the story before this is a problem and I've never actually thought about what it would be like. Too unreal for me. (What are you doing to me. You have me thinking deeply!)

[sholio]

(What are you doing to me. You have me thinking deeply!)

HORRORS! *g*

I think that it *does* depend on the writer and how it's done. To me, it's just such a deeply freaky concept that I have trouble seeing it as a positive thing. However, there have been stories that used that concept which I quite enjoyed. So, yes, it does depend - I think it's easier for me to accept when it's treated as a mixed blessing (which *was* the impression that I got with Amanda - that it was a hard thing for her, but overall positive) than when the character either greets it with open arms or eventually comes to realize that they were wrong all along and it really *is* the best thing that ever happened to them.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I actually kind of love soulbonding as a concept, but only if it's done as she describes - as a significant part of a society (or else a wacky accident), and not always a positive thing. When it's done as as cheap excuse for romance without putting the work into developing the relationship, then naturally I can't stand it, because I don't have any interest in romance; but I'm fascinated by unusual relationships, and soul-bonding can be plenty unusual, done right.

...I think I'm also weirdly biased because when I think "soul-bonding" my first thought is actually the dragon/rider relationships of Pern, which isn't a romantic relationship at all...

[sholio]

See, it freaks me out to no end. So do the dragonriders; though I loved the books when I was younger, I find the whole idea more creepy than cool (though, don't get me wrong, your dragonrider-Rodney story was adorable). The idea of someone else being able to read your mind or, worse, that if they die, you'll die, is more the stuff of horror than romance to me.

However, I do like to see things like that explored as social phenomena, with their ups *and* downs addressed. Which the Pern books actually did do. It just didn't strike me as something I would like to experience for myself, vicariously or otherwise.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, there's the difference - there's a lot of things I absolutely adore in fiction that I have no interest in experiencing for myself. H/C is the obvious one, but then there's all my favorite characters who I'd be terrified to actually meet (Rodney's one of the few I wouldn't be, really...) In fiction, I rather love co-dependent relationships, as disturbing as I find them in reality. And soul-bonding is the ultimate in codependency, so it pushes that button hard, when done right.

(Pern I see as a little different anyway, as the dragons, while mostly sentient, were not exactly independent minds. The riders could live after losing their dragons, though it hurt; the dragons could not. Riders could mistreat their dragons, but the dragons could only helplessly love, like big smart winged dogs, and their loyalty was endearing as a dog's is. Obviously I'm writing Shepparth a bit different...and then, Naomi Novik has been doing a great job exploring dragon-rider dynamics in Temeraire.)

(...I really need a SGA of Pern icon...)

--Also, along these lines, I think I mentioned this before, but you really want to see the anime Juuni Kokki. There's - it's not exactly soul-bonding, because it's not quite romantic, but the Kirin-Emperor relationship is this intense, undeniable fated connection, and more often than not it hurts both involved...I think you'd enjoy how it's done.

[sholio]

there's a lot of things I absolutely adore in fiction that I have no interest in experiencing for myself.

... okay, you DO have an excellent point here, particularly as the characters I like most tend to be people I find interesting as fictional characters and not, say, people I'd like to invite over to a barbeque.

Though, in terms of h/c, I tend to go more for the "c", so what I'm really getting high on is the feeling of being loved and snuggled while ill, which translates to real life pretty well.

But, still, I do think you have a point about liking in fiction what we might not like in reality. Still, all that aside, I think the big squick for me with soulbonding is the DO NOT WANT of being that codependent, or having someone that dependent on me.

Obviously, though, every different universe implements it a little differently - some include thought-sharing, with others there's a "both of us die if one of us dies" thing going on, and so forth.

The riders could live after losing their dragons, though it hurt; the dragons could not.

Well ... more than just "hurt"; the one former rider who was actually a character (Lytol, who incidentally was my favorite character in the series - classic case of me going for a minor character who's hardly even IN the series) was very badly damaged (emotionally) from losing his dragon; I got the impression that someone had to be very strong just to survive the emotional trauma and loss. "Could" live, but often didn't.

You have a point about the dragons, though; they were really more like big, smart pets than individuals and characters in their own right. I do love your Shepparth, though - and I think there's no doubt that Rodney would definitely bond to an exceptionally smart and willful dragon!

[rogue-pudding.livejournal.com]

My personal explanation for why the riders could live while the dragons could not was that the immediate grief and loss of the partners death invariably caused a suicide attempt, and a human rider is a lot easier to restrain than a dragon that can go Between.

[parisindy.livejournal.com]

I love the idea of soul bounding but don't you think
that even the elves had some control of what they let ther other
person see. They couldn't escape the bond but there was some control over what was expressed

man i miss skywise!

[sholio]

Well, different universes implement it differently ... I think that's another reason why the soulbonding in Elfquest didn't weird me out too badly, because it was mostly a biological mating urge, and once *that* was fulfilled, the amount of sharing/bonding that the couple experienced was basically voluntary from that point -- they *could* end up deeply connected, but so can mates in our world.

[parisindy.livejournal.com]

exactly, i agree. what other universes had soul bonding?

[sholio]

See the comments here and the post I linked to plus its comments - there are lots of examples there.

[alipeeps.livejournal.com]

Have you read Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar novels, particularly The Last Herald Mage trilogy (Magic's Pawn, Magic's Promise and Magic's Price). They have the concept of soulbounding but I didn't mind the way it was done there. The bonding wasn't telepathic per se and it occured between people who were clearly good together (even if they hadn't realised it yet - or, more likely, had realised it but for various reasons were trying to deny it). I'm thinking it was something to do with the magical abilities of the heralds/herald-mages (I'm trying to recall if there were any soul-bonded couples who weren't in some way involved in magic and I don't seem to recall any) and it played a part in the plot, rather than just being a random reason for romance (e.g. people only realised that Vanyel (the hero) had soulbonded with Stefan (yes, this is mainstream fantasy featuring gay characters :D) when Vanyel was wounded with a poisoned blade.. and a) he sickened much slower than usual and b) Stefan started feeling very weary/ill.) It's also not all happiness and light.. without giving away too much of the plot, in two cases one of a soulbonded couple is killed, leaving the other alone, and it's made clear that soulbonding is a) not the be all and end all and b) not always a good thing. I should also point out that it's made clear that the character whose soul-bonded mate can and will go on to other relationships (it's not like once you're soulbonded and lose that you will never live again) and one such bereaved character even ends up soulbonded a second time, many years later. All in all, the concept just somehow worked for me within the context of the books and the world they were set in.

[sholio]

You know, I read Last Herald Mage when I was younger (fangirl teenage AAAANNNGGGSSSTTT! *G*) but I don't remember soul-bonding at all!

There are lots of ways to do it, and there have definitely been times where it didn't bother me and I even liked it. It kinda does depend a lot on how it's handled in the story, what function it serves in the story, and how the characters react.