sholio | Harry Dresden, walking pincushion

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Harry Dresden, walking pincushion

Since Dresden Files seems to be the latest "gotta watch it" thing slowly taking over Livejournal, I decided to check out the books; when a film or show is based upon a book, I usually prefer to start with the source material and then see the show.

The earliest book in the series at Barnes & Noble was book three, so I bought that and read it.

Sweet baby Jesus's toes! If all the books are like this, I can see why h/c people are flipping out over this series! This book was sort of like one of those fanfics where (x) character falls down a flight of stairs while leaving the hospital after major surgery, breaks both arms, develops a life-threatening infection and, while staggering back to the hospital, gets mugged in an alley and then, still crawling towards the hospital leaving a trail of blood, gets run over by a bus, knocked into the ocean and attacked by a shark. (Okay, yes, exaggerating, but you know the kind I'm talking about...)

After a certain point, I was kinda just reading along in amazement that he could still be *alive*. And speaking of which, I love how many of his plans (two in this book alone) include killing himself as a vital element of the plan.

I'm now reading the first book (hubby's already read it, that and book 3 ... it was pretty much all he did yesterday) and we watched the first episode of the series last night. Hubby and I agree that they did an awesome job of casting Harry, very true to the books, but the rest of it ... hmm. There's a certain vital something that's missing. Although I noticed that the "horrible things happen to Harry at the drop of a hat" motif carried through into the series as well...

Oh, and I love the sense of humor in the books, as well. I totally cracked up when he's crafting a magic love potion in the first book and the ingredients are (among other things): tequila, chocolate, a romance novel and a $50 bill. These books are like Harry Potter on crack.

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A lot of the people on lj who are into Dresden (okay, me *g*) got into it solely because James Marsters does the books on CD. :)

While I'm not a huge fan of the books, I'm very disappointed by how much the tv show had changed a lot of the material. I'm also finding the episodes pretty uneven - good one week, pretty bad the next.

I'm going to continue giving it a chance since I don't hate it, but it's not in my top ten favorite shows to watch.

solely because James Marsters does the books on CD. :)

LOL! Okay, that *does* explain a lot!

I'm enjoying the books, although they're certainly not the greatest things I've ever read -- more like distracting brain candy. One thing about the books that is really bothering me (though this wouldn't be a problem with the books on tape) is that there are a lot of typos and spelling mistakes, much more so than you'd normally find in a published book. It's very off-putting to me.

There were things about the series' changes that I didn't mind, things I could accept for dramatic necessity, and things that just bugged me. Can you recommend for me which episodes are good so that I can skip the bad ones? ^_^

I wonder, is that (ratherannoying(me)) detective the same type in the books?

Pretty much. I like him (I'm fond of smart-ass characters), but your mileage may vary; my husband describes him as "an annoying little bastard" in the books, but he's reading the books faster than I am, so obviously it's not bothering him THAT much!

Nonono, sorry, I meant the female, not Harry :)

Oh! *laughs, blushes* My mistake, sorry! And how could anyone NOT like Harry? ;)

She's in the books, but not quite the same; I think I like her better in the books because she's presented a little differently -- she doesn't come across as quite so much of, well, your stereotypical ice-queen female. She's more human, and she and Harry have more of a relaxed, "hanging out" type of relationship. (Although in the book I'm reading right now -- the first book in the series -- she's more like she is in the show ... that is, kind of flat and pushier than she needs to be. I think the author was still getting a handle on writing her at that point.)

Well, the only one that I found so bad I actually had to post about it was episode #5, Bad Blood, which has Bianca the vampire Queen in it. It was so very off the mark for the Bianca character in the books that it made my head hurt. Plus the make-up was bad and the actress who played Bianca was terrible.

Other than Bad Blood, which was pretty much universally panned on my flist, I'd say the others are watchable because ones I may not have felt that great, others on my flist liked. So it's very much a case of YMMV with this show. :)

The f/x in the series, at least the one episode I watched, do seem to tend towards cheesiness in places. The first shot of the human-form raven just made me cringe; it was almost Count Chocula cheesy! I guess I'm spoiled by "Supernatural", because it does such a good job at making the monsters believable and scary without looking like guys in rubber suits.

One thing I'm curious about -- is Michael (the knight) in the show at all? Or in the other books besides book 3? Since I started with book 3, I think of him as a regular cast member, but I notice he's not in the first book so maybe he was just for that one.

No,no Michael so far. And he only did show up in book three - fully formed liked Athena from the forehead of Zeus. *g* We never had heard of him before.

Whuh...? Okay, that's just weird -- and I guess that's the problem with jumping into the middle of a series! *laughs* I'd gotten the impression from that book that he hunts nasties with Harry a lot -- there's all this backstory, and they seem to know each other pretty well, and then he just vanishes? *is puzzled*

It's not that I was THAT fond of Michael per se, but since I fixate on friendships, I really liked him, along with Bob, as a foil for Harry.

Well, I don't know if he's in the other books because, as I said, um, books = James Marsters in my world so I've only ever listened to the books, and I'm only now listening to Book 3. I do have the first five books in paperback, but I've yet to actually read them. LOL

Ah, gotcha! *grin* That actually makes me feel a little better, because I like the idea of Harry sort of accumulating this group of friends and allies as he goes along, rather than just consistently losing people and being alone all the time. *waves friendship flag*

I'm out of the lj loop, I hadn't heard more than the name of this. But man, your description of the h/c had me in stitches for like a minute (is there comfort? or just hurt? because I needs me the h with the c...)

There's a notable lack of "c" to go with the "h", and I think that's probably the main reason why I'm not diving head over heels into Dresden fandom. For me, it's not about watching them fall apart so much as watching them get put back together, and while he does have friends and allies in the books, he seems to be very isolated. (Also, his friends and lovers have this tendency to meet various horrible fates in his vicinity.) I really like the Harry character, but I'm more fond of the "two (or more) against the world" archetype rather than the "lone hero" archeytype, which is what these books seem to be. The one book I've read completely through could sort of be summed up as "The hero goes through hell, and no one appreciates it and he's (mostly) alone at the end". WAAAAH! I need my warm fuzzies!

On the other hand, I've only read one and a half books, and I'm still quite early in the series. I'm certainly going to go ahead and read the rest; it's been awhile since I've had a fairly long (book) series to sink my teeth into. I also bought Nightlife on your recommendation; it's next on my to-read list once I run out of Dresden books and this other series -- oh! Which I really need to recommend to you! I'm nibbling my nails waiting for the rest of them to get here from Amazon.com:

If you want h/c books, read Wen Spencer's Ukiah Oregon series. The first book, the one I just read, is Alien Taste (http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Taste-Ukiah-Oregon-Novels/dp/0451458370/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-1270012-8525746?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174255580&sr=8-1), and I definitely recommend starting at the beginning of the series, because there were so many twists and turns and "OMG! WTF! I can't believe they did (x)!" moments. The writing starts out pretty rough but then it just totally suckers you in and makes you care about the characters. This author HAD to have started out as a fanfic writer. In fact, I'd venture a guess (though this is only a guess) that she's been in Sentinel fandom, not just because the main character is a private investigator with hyper-acute senses (hmmm...) but because of the very heavy focus on the bond between him and his partner/best friend. The whole thing is fanficcy in the best way, because these books are all about the love and affection between the main character and his partner and family -- and I want the rest of the books to get here now, dammit!

I'll have to check out that Wen Spencer book. It sounds right up my alley.

I've read one book by Spencer before. I can't remember the title, but it was a gender-reversal thing: a world in which women ran everything and men were rare, so men were kept in seclusion and protected from the outside world until their marriage was arranged with another family group of women.

It read very much like fanfic to me, too, so I bet you're right that she started out in fandom...

Also: I just read the seventh (eighth?) book in the Dresden series, and I'm impressed with how the character keeps growing and changing. It doesn't feel tired at all. I'm really looking forward to the next book now.

I think I know which Spencer book you're talking about; I haven't read it, but I remember seeing that one when I was looking for the others in the series of hers I'm presently reading.

It's hard to put my finger on what about it gives it that powerful fanfic feel; I think a lot of it is just the way that she dwells on the character relationships in a way that non-fanfic authors tend not to.

I'm currently reading the 4th Dresden book and they're really hooking me in more and more as I go along. I still feel massively sorry for the guy!

The Dresden Files sounds like I might pick up on a lark (when I'm actually reading books again, instead of ODing on fic as I am at present ^^;;;) but we're gonna get this Alien Taste thing now, it sounds all kind of fun. (...okay, really, with us all you have to say is "partner" and BAM we're there ^_^ And we were into Sentinel way back in the day, so that's icing on the cake...)

when I'm actually reading books again, instead of ODing on fic as I am at present ^^;;;)

LOL! See, that's what I was doing for most of last year! The last couple of months, though, I've been getting back into sitting down with actual books. The Dresden series is sucking me in more and more as I go along and get more invested in the characters (I'm presently on book 4) but it still doesn't really have that certain "something" that really sinks its hooks into me (as the Spencer book does) -- that unique spark of friendship/partnership/brotherhood; I think you of all people know exactly what I'm talking about. ^^

*makes flaily motions* I love the Dresden books so ridiculously much, omg. I bought (and read) the first six books within three days, and the next three within two weeks (had to order them online).

But yes, Harry does get beat up rather a lot in every. single. book. I don't normally like the type of fic you mention, because sheer wonder at how on earth the character could possibly survive just throws me out of the story, but the DFs manage to avoid that much of an extreme, for me. The humor helps; also, that the focus in the books isn't specifically on the suffering, and it doesn't really wallow in it, like a lot of those fics do.

As for the tv series: thankfully, it gets better after the first episode. Still doesn't entirely do the books justice, IMHO, but it's fun. And Bob is great. *g*

So, yeah. I'm glad you're getting introduced to the series! :D

The humor helps; also, that the focus in the books isn't specifically on the suffering, and it doesn't really wallow in it, like a lot of those fics do.

*grin* Yeah, I agree that tone makes a huge difference, and I enjoy his "laugh in the face of death" approach to all the crazy stuff that happens to him. I found it a little overwhelming in book 3 -- I mean, he got whomped in the first couple of chapters and then it just kept getting worse! Eventually it was more distracting than anything else, because half that stuff should've killed him. He's just so entertainingly casual about it, though ...

Like I mentioned in one of my replies above, I'm generally more about the team-type stories than the "lone hero" types, which I think is why I'm having a little trouble getting into the series despite the fact that I really like Harry a lot. He's so alone. *sniffle* But I'm liking the books, and I'm definitely going to be getting more once I finish the ones I've got. I'm also glad to hear that the series improves. (Bob! Heeeee! I love Bob! But I think I liked him better as a possessed skull than an actual, whole person. I wonder if they figured that a talking skull would just be unbearably silly if you see it rather than reading about it, though.)

At least now I know what everyone's talking about! I've been generally avoiding the Dresden discussion on my little corner of LJ because a) I didn't want spoilers and b) I didn't know what everyone was talking about anyway. Now I can follow the discussions, at least ... *grin*

Don't worry, Harry starts getting less isolated as the series goes on. *g* Michael continues to appear fairly regularly after book three, and there is a certain development in... oh, book six? that helps mitigate the lone wolf issue. Harry doesn't only lose friends/allies, he does also gain them. Takes a while, but it happens. (thank god)

Bob! I like his personality better as a skull, yeah (they don't emphasize the lecher in him *nearly* enough in the show *g*) but I find myself better able to sympathize with him as a human character. I don't remember why they chose not to have him in the skull... something about it looking silly, yeah.

I'm happy to hear that, about Harry -- I know it's just a personal-preference thing, but I do tend to have trouble sticking with an isolated hero over the long term. I need that sense of connected-ness that comes from having a group of people who care about each other.

*looks forward to next books*

where (x) character falls down a flight of stairs while leaving the hospital after major surgery, breaks both arms, develops a life-threatening infection and, while staggering back to the hospital, gets mugged in an alley and then, still crawling towards the hospital leaving a trail of blood, gets run over by a bus, knocked into the ocean and attacked by a shark...

You know what, I think I'm reading that story right now. ;-)

I have had the first two books in this series as audio files on my iPod forever now; sounds like I need to finally get around to listening to them. Or maybe just buying them; it sounds like something Midlet and I could read and enjoy together.

Friends of mine have complained, as well, that the show is not true to the books; one talked about how in real life the main character is very awkward around women, and yet in the tv series he's quite the ladies man. I wouldn't know; we don't get Sci Fi so I haven't watched any of the episodes. Then again, this is Sci Fi, and believing they'd require the "sexing up" of a show isn't much of a stretch for me, not after recent events. But like you, I like to read the books first.

Hmm...just checked the library. Given the number of holds on each and every book? We are so buying them. Yup.

These books seem to have good male/female crossover appeal; my husband likes them because they're fast-paced and fun, while I like them more for the characters and because I have a big weakness for genre-mixing -- these are sort of film-noir detective novels with magic. I'll level with you, though, there are things about the writing that aren't that great -- what bugs me more than anything else are the number of typos and grammatical errors. There is also a certain type of urban fantasy that I don't much like, which is more about the trappings than the substance of myth and magic, and these books have a tendency to slip into that. I don't know if there's a good way to explain this -- with some authors (Zelazny, say, or Gaiman), you get the feeling that they really looked into, and thought about, the underpinnings and origins of their magical system and how it relates to our world. The form and function of their magic and magical creatures are drawn from actual cultures' belief systems. Others just stick in a vampire or a protection circle and call it good. The Dresden books are more of the "stick it in and call it good" school of writing. This is not to say that the books aren't enjoyable or that the author didn't put some thought into it, but on a world-belief scale, if certain things are "real" and others aren't, what they're showing us just doesn't really *work*, you know what I mean?

Friends of mine have complained, as well, that the show is not true to the books; one talked about how in real life the main character is very awkward around women, and yet in the tv series he's quite the ladies man.

I don't really get that from the books. The way he's presented in the books, he's an old-fashioned chivalrous type -- holding doors for women, that kind of things. I wouldn't say he's awkward at all. He's also not a ladies' man the way the series seems to have him, but it's not as big a leap as all that. Though, granted, I've only read a book and a half at this point, and in one of them, he had a steady girlfriend.

Well I am fan of both the book and the series and I think they have done a pretty good job of reworking the books into a TV show. Some things were changed, but for the most part there were "real world" reasons behind the changes.

For example, it seems that there really is someone on the Chicago PD named Murphy who just so happens to a short blond. From what I heard for legal reasons they had to make the TV version look different. (I also wonder if someone on the production crew pointed out how much more work it would take to shoot co-stars when one is a foot taller then the other. It works in the books, but framing something like for TV would have to be a major pain in butt)

The originally wanted to keep Bob as a glowing skull, but couldn't get the effects to look good so they went just having him as an ghost who lives in a skull and can't be very far form it. In many ways that is the change I have least problems with because they have kept Bob pretty much the same in spirit (no pun intended) and the fact that he can't do much to help Harry - other then offer information.

I would love to Micheal on the show at some point. As well as a few of the other characters in the books such as Thomas.

That's interesting to know about the reasons behind the changes, especially on Murphy. My guess about her character had been that they'd decided to roll two book-verse characters into one and make Murphy the platonic friend/cop and Susan the Hispanic love interest into the same character. Interesting to know the real story -- it reminds me of how the setting for the Relic movie had to be changed from the New York natural history museum to the one in Chicago because the N.Y. one wouldn't let them film a horror movie there for PR reasons.

I can understand the Bob thing; I think I still liked him better as a completely disembodied spirit, but I can see how the skull might just look silly. One of those cases where you can get away with things in a book that you can't on a TV show.

And bear in mind that I'm still not very far along in either books or show, so my opinions may change. :)

Well I may have mentioned of late that I have become addicted to The Dresden Files (and yes, have already completed my first foray into TDF fanfic!). I've come at it from the angle of enjoying the TV show and then going out and buying the books so really the differences between the two Dresedn "'verses" don't bother me much - a lot of the criticism/complaint I see levelled at the show consists of "Oooh but it's not the same as the books!"

As an example, someone said above that ep 5 Bad Blood was the worst to date and cited as a reason that Bianca was very different from in the book. It's true. She was. Completely reinvented I would say with only the name and the fact that she's a vampire remaining the same. But here's the thing - the TV is *not* doing adaptations of the books (other than last night's ep Stormfront which was filmed as a two hour pilot for the network and is based on the plot of the first book - and has since but cut down to 1 hour and aired as ep 8) and the author has stated categorically that it will not do so. So you are never going to see e.g. Bianca in the way she featured in the books. Likewise, the episode Hair of the Dog was not an adaptation of the second book Fool Moon - they both just happened to feature stories about werewolves.

The show takes elements of plots from the books, it takes characters and mythologies etc, but it is not intended to be any kind of direct translation of the books onto the screen. There is much in the books that would not translate well to the medium of television and for the most part I can see why they've made changes where they have.

And, for the record, I would rate Bad Blood as one of the best eps so far! :) That and probably The Boone Identity (ep 2). I'm not saying the show is perfect but it's definitely enjoyable and given time to grow and develop could become awesome. I had issues with the writing at the beginning of the series - I found the plot developments rather predictable and called every major development before it happened - but this is definitely improving as the series progresses.

I'm happily viewing the TDF fandom the same way I do my X-Men fandom - there is Book-verse/Comic-verse and there is TV-Verse/Movie-verse and one draws inspiration from the other but is kinda like an AU if you will... a reimagining of the source material.

I enjoy the books to and yes, they are *all* (that I've read so far - I'm onto number 4) incredibly whumpy! I do like that they have carried that element over into the show (though, it must be said, at a slightly more believable level! :lol:) They're not the best things I've ever read (and I do find some of the characterisation a wee bit cheesy - I find myself at times seeing Harry as the author's wish-fulfilment of what he'd be like if he was cooler and could do magic :lol:) but they're certainly enjoyable and I do find myself getting involved in them - like staying up faaar too late reading cos I want to know what happens next!

I adore what Paul Blackthorne has done with the character of Harry.. he has somehow imbued him with an incredible warmth and charm that is utterly lacking in arrogance. I just wanna hug him! :D On the casting thing also.. (as discussed above) what actually happened is that Valerie Cruz (Hispanic) auditioned for the part of Susan (Susan is actually in the ep Stormfront which originally was the pilot and now aired as ep 8 yesterday) and Rebecca McFarland (blonde etc) auditioned for the role of Murphy. The producers felt that their personalities/talents etc were better suited to the other characters and swapped them around (good luck for Valerie Cruz as Murphy is a regular character and Susan seems to only be in Stormfront to date). The casting decision was based purely on talent, not physical conformity to the books. The thing about the real life cop is why they changed the Murphy character's name to Constanza in the show.. because there is a real life police officer called Karrin Murphy (her name in the books).

Okay I have waffled hugely on your LJ and for that I apologise... but I'm a little enthusiastic about this fandom right now... and I'm getting giddy waiting to be able to watch ep 8 in ooooh about an hour or so! :D

*grin* The books are sucking me in more and more; I'm currently on book 4, and a lot of my complaints that I had about them in the beginning are becoming much less so as I go along. It still doesn't have that specific *whatever* that causes me to go all goofy-weakkneed-fannish for things, but they're very entertaining and I've been up late two nights in a row finishing the last couple of books ... so there is lots about them to recommend!

I really do love the casting job they did on Harry for the series. My husband likes the books but he doesn't like the series, for whatever reason, so I might be watching that one by myself -- but I think I'll go ahead and give some more eps a chance.

Interesting info about Susan and Murphy! Incidentally, as of book 4 I'm totally falling for Murphy in the books -- gotta love a short chick who takes out a 12-foot ogre with a chainsaw!

Gack! I haven't gotten that far into book 4!!

*runs away with hands over ears chanting, 'Nyah, nyah, nyah, I'm not listening!'* :lol:

Oh crap!! Sorry! I missed the part where you said 4 was the book you were reading right now. *smacks forehead*

Just, er, forget I said anything. *g*

But yeah. Murphy's cool.

Hmmm, I was thinking that I should go back and read the books, but now I'm not sure I want to. I've only read the first couple and as I was reading the discussion here and elsewhere, I'm realizing that I don't remember a lot of details about them. I've really liked the series so far and it's getting even better. I don't know if I want to color my perception of it. There seems to be a lot of books vs. show comparisons and while everyone is entitled to their opinions, I'd really rather not do that.

I can certainly respect that. I think I'm having a lot of trouble getting into the TV series because there are so many little things I really like about the books that are either not present in the TV show or radically changed.

You could always save the books for hiatus reading; I think I'm probably going to end up doing the reverse, using the TV show to get my fix after I'm done with the books.

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Harry Dresden, walking pincushion

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