sholio: sun on winter trees (Team Love)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2008-01-05 12:07 pm

SGA 4x11

Yeah, I'm too lazy to type the title *grin*.

I *really* enjoyed this one! I had a few little nitpicks, such as not getting to see anyone telling Rodney about Teyla; either they haven't told him yet -- which seems kind of odd that it wouldn't have EVER come up on the flight to the Replicator planet -- or we didn't get to see it. And there were a few places that seemed too easy or like they were glossing things over to get it all to fit in an hour. But overall -- lots of squee! In fact, rather than writing up a coherent sort of episode summary, I guess I'll just list points of squee in no particular order:

-Caldwell! Yay! And seeing the contrast between him and Ellis is really interesting, because he does seem to have come to an understanding of how to work with this bunch of oddballs. And he seemed to be working really well with Carter, which was nice to see.

-The moment of revelation with Teyla! And the character reactions worked really well for me -- John being kind of an ass about it, and angry that she hadn't told him; Ronon a lot more understanding, and having figured out that she was together with whatsisname, and the handholding ... AWWWWWWW! In that scene, too, I really got the sense that I sometimes got in season 2, that Ronon and Teyla have a certain closeness that comes from being the only two Pegasus natives on Atlantis, and there are times when they understand each other better than anyone else does. I really like that rapport and was very happy to see it again here. And once again, squee! to the handholding!

-Space battles! explosions! whee! The special effects were fantastic in this episode, from little things like the puddle of Replicator goo, to the big 'splodey ones. I really loved it.

-Carter was just awesome in this. I loved that little moment at the Replicator homeworld when she gets to do the scientific figuring-out for a change, or at least point Rodney in the right direction; while I understand that it's somewhat necessary for the role she has now, she's been very sidelined on the scientific stuff while she's been on Atlantis, and it was lovely to get this little reminder that she can still go brain-on-brain with Rodney.

-That scene at the end with Elizabeth -- OMG! I covered up the list of guest stars at the beginning (I often do that because I don't want to know who's going to be in the episode; it often gives things away), and I had actually forgotten that Torri was supposed to be in this one. I love how she's got this shiny leather "evil" version of Elizabeth's jacket. And honestly, I have no idea if this is a "RepliBeth" or if it's the real one and the other was lying about the real one being dead. But I'm really looking forward to next week -- I honestly know NOTHING about the next episode and I don't want to be spoiled, either; I'm just a-squee with anticipation.

-Rodney built a fembot! I can't believe no one in the show teased him about that. You know what I really loved about "FRAN", though, is that they didn't go ahead and have her go the free-will, wanting-to-be-human route. Her conversations with Rodney were very interesting, because she just thinks differently than humans do, and I really loved that. (It was also kind of nice to have ONE of their plans go off without a hitch! I mean, the rest of it didn't quite, but the FRAN part did.)

-Considering how much Larrin (Lirrin?) irritated me in Travelers, I was pleasantly surprised that I really liked her here. She really came across as a sort of female John -- and I did enjoy the understated sexual tension between them. I think this episode worked a lot better at what they were probably going for in Travelers, where it didn't quite gel for me: the clash of equally stubborn personalities who are nevertheless capable of putting their differences aside and working together when they have to. (Larrin's reference to the council was also interesting. I would love to know more about Traveler culture. These ships were pretty obviously warships only, without families on them -- at least I presume so.)

-What else? Lots of fun little bickering-bantering scenes; loved Carter defending Rodney, and Rodney and Zelenka arguing, and the John & Rodney scene at the end. (I like the way that the whole Doranda thing is basically just yet another way for John to tease Rodney -- actually, I don't think it took very long for it to become so in season 2.)

I'm sure I'll think of more after I post this. But, basically, I quite enjoyed it, and there were places where I went "... wuh?" with the plot (like bringing refugees to Atlantis rather than gating them to another world), but overall I liked it enough that I wasn't overly bothered.

I did think it was a little bit of a writerly misstep to have Larrin accept so readily that Sheppard & co. weren't in league with the Wraith, though. In the past, the slightest hint of Wraith collaboration when they're offworld is enough to bring out the "Wraith worshipper! Betrayer!" accusations. Larrin's willingness to accept a Wraith alliance seemed to go against what we've seen of the Pegasus Galaxy mindset. On the other hand, being the only people in the galaxy (so far) who are on technologically equal footing with the Wraith, it's possible that the Travelers have actually considered plans along the lines of the one in Allies in the past. Anyway, it bugged me, but my nitpicks with the episode were really all small things, and for an episode with a plot this sprawling and complicated, I guess that's really a point in its favor!

Okay, off to read other people's reactions. :)
ext_2207: (SGA - Rodney breaks science)

[identity profile] abyssinia4077.livejournal.com 2008-01-05 09:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, there was SO MUCH GOOD!

I was surprised by how excited I was to see Caldwell, but I think I missed him and he really has gotten used to working with them and it makes it so clear that Ellis hasn't.

Teyla's revelation was amazing - and John's reaction was spot-on John and Ronon's reaction made me melt until a thousand itty bitty pieces. he is SO FANTASTIC.

Sam really did finally shine though, yes, I would like if they could remember that not only is she a very smart scientist, but she has TONS of experience with the replicators (possibly more than anyone) - though the Milky Way replicators were a little different. I get that her job here is different and I'm okay with her science taking a back role, but it is the core of who she is.

And, yeah, I was much less annoyed with Larrin this time around.

My biggest WTF was the science that hurt so much I had to rewind to see if they were actually saying THAT. *sigh*

Still. I feel like they're hitting their good stride again and it's so exciting.

(also, in my head, RepliCarter was there in Liz's ship in the background off-camera becuase they are going to take over the galaxy together)
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[identity profile] bironic.livejournal.com 2008-01-05 10:06 pm (UTC)(link)
LJ ate my comment. :(

Let's try again:

I absolutely agree on the joy that was Ronon comforting Teyla after her announcement, and your suspicion that part of that bond arises from a kind of Pegasus solidarity mentality. And I also liked Larrin a lot more in this episode than in "Travelers" (although I didn't dislike her in that episode as much as a lot of other people did); she was more competent and confident, maybe. I also laughed at FRAN as a fembot; I don't know if you watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but I was tempted to say, "I was made to love you!" when she appeared. You know Zelenka was thinking along those lines when Rodney introduced her.

I wonder: does it matter whether the Elizabeth we saw is the real Elizabeth or a Replicator? In some sense, she hasn't been herself since the season premiere, and her consciousness has been assimilated into the Replicator collective, so is there really a difference between nanite-infested "our" Elizabeth and a nanite-built copy like the one in "This Mortal Coil"? Is there a difference between either of those and a full-blown Replicator with her memories, other than the physical? Or is it just sentimental? Hmmm.

[identity profile] courtberger.livejournal.com 2008-01-05 10:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm rather excited about this new Elizabeth, I'll be honest, I enjoyed Torri and the character she played, but she still irked me at times, not Torri herself, but her character as Elizabeth. Maybe I'm just a huge John fan and tend to agree with him more often than not, but I find myself agreeing with Sheppard more often than not. I love the Elizabeth we saw and I really hope we see more. *grins*

I too loved the scene between Ronon and Teyla, but I agree with John, she should have said something sooner, not because they're a team and as a team they should know, but if something changes for you such as being pregnant, then your team leader needs to be aware of that. If I were in his position and I sent Teyla out and she got hurt and in turn lost the baby I would be devasted, John might not be devasted, but he would certainly be upset. Of course my view may be somewhat biased because Hubby and I are currently trying to start a family *grins* However I don't think that Teyla should be taken off of active duty, I think she should have been honest and then told them all it's my life and my choice and I'm going to keep doing what I think is best for me and this child and if that means coninuting to be a part of the team then so be it. Teyla's smart, she'll know when it's time to step back and let someone else handle it and when she needs to be the one to step up and handle things. It was such a great scene for Ronon and Teyla though, I absolutely loved it and it was nice to see that again.

I too liked Larin(not sure I spelled that right) better in this episode, but she did seem awfully quick to just be okay with working side by side with the Wraith. I loved Travelers, but her character made me squirm, there's just something about her that rubs me funny and I'm not sure if it's the character or the actress. I love how John acts around her, but I still have a hard time really liking her.

I've never had a problem with Carter but this episode made me love her, I love how she defended Rodney and I love how she told Ellis that if he treated anyone on the base like that again he wouldn't be welcome. Ellis is a tool and I love the actor, but not the character, lol! I'm a huge Caldwell fan and I loved how he was the complete opposite of Ellis.

Rodney and Radek were perfect in this episode, I've really missed the two of them bantering back and forth and I too liked the route they went with Fran.

All in all a very good episode. :D

Court

[identity profile] courtberger.livejournal.com 2008-01-05 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
(also, in my head, RepliCarter was there in Liz's ship in the background off-camera becuase they are going to take over the galaxy together)

This is made of win! I just had to tell you that!

Court
ext_2207: (SGA - Rodney and Zelenka storm's brewing)

[identity profile] abyssinia4077.livejournal.com 2008-01-05 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I went from neutral on Caldwell to liking him, but I didn't realize how much I missed him until he showed up (I saw two ships and got very excited about seeing the Daedalus again)

And, yes, it is interesting seeing that difference - and it makes sense to me that he works better with Carter. Because, yes, he has to know her already. But also I think since she is military he's going to initially give her more trust than he would a civilian.

I've been dreaming about the RepliCarter angle since the beginning of this season - as soon as they did it to Liz, I've been wanting to see them rule the universe together.

I can usually let the science and medicine slide by, but every so often something pings me - usually when it's a very basic mis-understanding on how atoms/molecules/elements/compounds work. They want to play hard and fast with theoretical physics? Fine. The basic building blocks of atoms? Not so fine.

YAY episode! *has no clue about next week but hopes it is as good*
ext_2207: (Default)

[identity profile] abyssinia4077.livejournal.com 2008-01-05 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee :)
I've been calling for ReliCarter and RepliLiz to take over the galaxy since the season started. Would be so awesome.
leesa_perrie: two cheetahs facing camera and cuddling (Canadian Candy)

[personal profile] leesa_perrie 2008-01-05 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)
-Rodney built a fembot!

LOL!! I hadn't thought of that!!! Snerk!

I loved this episode as well (and yes, there are flaws, but nothing major). Really, really hoping we get to see Rodney's reaction to Teyla's news next week! I thought John and Ronon's reactions were right, especially Ronon (aww, and lol about the name suggestion!).

I loved Carter's role, the way she acted as leader but also got to show off some science skill as well ('we're genuises' says Rodney!) And nice to see Rodney's 'dry spell' is over (the one he insists he hasn't had!!). He has been struggling the last couple of episodes or so - even genuises have their off periods! (In his defence, that coding must be very, very complex.)

Elizabeth's bit at the end was a surprise for me too - though as soon as they panned past the leader without showing us his/her face, I just knew it was her! So, is she evil-Weir now, or are these the ones that want to ascend and she's helping them for some reason or other? I guess we'll find out eventually - in season five probably - or at least, I hope so.

The special effects were fantastic - and that's the best exploding planet I can ever remember seeing offhand! It made me go wow!

I'm sure there's more I could say, but I'm tired and must go to bed soon... It was a great ep and I, too, am looking forward to the next episode. And no, I have no specific spoilers for it either!

[identity profile] courtberger.livejournal.com 2008-01-05 11:13 pm (UTC)(link)
That would so rock! I would pay money for that! :D

Court

I shall add you as a friend as well *grins* If they can't take over the world we can always try :D
naye: A cartoon of a woman with red hair and glasses in front of a progressive pride flag. (atlantis - teyla smil)

[personal profile] naye 2008-01-05 11:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I watched this episode with so much GLEE! It was just - FUN! There were really cool space battles and a GREAT plan that worked just as it was supposed to (well, with a minor hitch or two, but nothing the combined brain-power of Rodney & Sam couldn't fix!), and lots of cute little team moments. ♥ I for one was very, very pleased with the whole thing - this really did have the feel of a mid-season crescendo.

I covered up the list of guest stars at the beginning (I often do that because I don't want to know who's going to be in the episode; it often gives things away)

Ehehee~! So I'm not the only one who does that! *g* But - yes, it was a cool surprise there at the end of the episode.

I have a bunch of things in the ep I found interesting or cute or worth remarking on, but I keep forgetting what they are in favor of going OMG SO CUTE when I think about Ronon and Teyla and their little moment, and awww about John's instant guilt-trip for having put one of his team in peril, and - oh. They'd better show Rodney's reaction on screen, but if not, I'm sure I can count on the fandom to come up with a missing scene I'll love to bits.

Oh! One of the interesting things - need to point it out now, before I forget - is that Todd said something about not all Hives having Queens anymore? And how if they lost their Queens, they couldn't get more soldiers... So now I'm wondering if the "soldiers" are the drones, and if the males like Todd are something else, or not. It is very interesting to me that Todd can go back to the Wraith after who knows how long in captivity, and not just convince them to join in an alliance, but also get to command one of the ships. This after telling Atlantis the one ship who came in response to his emergency signal was the one Hive he still had any influence on. Hmmm~. No matter what the truth of that statement is, he is one sneaky, cunning, and all around awesome Wraith!

...time for supper. But - yay, squee! ^_^

[identity profile] kristen999.livejournal.com 2008-01-06 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
And John's reaction is about as non-supportive as he can get, and precisely *why* she didn't tell him in the first place, but I can totally see why he'd react that way.


I don't know..I think he would have been more supportive if she didn't lie to him for two months. Teyla has her reasons and yeah, I think John was a bit harsh but I think its more then the fact he's responsible for her and her baby. She didn't trust him enough to tell him earlier for whatever reasons, I'm sure he was hurt and angry to be left out considering they are supposed to be close.
naye: A cartoon of a woman with red hair and glasses in front of a progressive pride flag. (atlantis - rodney yes!)

[personal profile] naye 2008-01-06 01:13 am (UTC)(link)
Ha! I'm thrilled to discover that *I'm* not the only one! *g* (But seriously ... why must they always put the credits at the beginning? Why can't they list everything at the end, like they do with movies? Even knowing who wrote an episode gives an idea of what sort of episode it'll be.)

Ah, the curse of good memory + paying attention! Because, yes, if you know what actors are usually in it, seeing that one name in the credit will tell you that there will be Wraith in it, or they'll be contacting Earth, or any number of things that might have been intended as a plot twist. Not so twisty if you can see it coming from a mile away because you're waiting for actor X to appear! It also makes it REALLY difficult for them to ever write any kind of surprise appearance... Of course, surprise appearances are usually leaked on the web months in advance, but still! Better not to take any chances with those pesky credits. (I think it's guild rules? Starring actors - anyone with more than just a line or two - must have their names in the credits. I think that's why they had that final scene in Supernatural's "All Hell Breaks Loose" where the big surprise guest star didn't say a word. That way it could still be a surprise.)

Oooh, cool Wraith speculation! Yes - their reproduction has to work in a more insect like way, no doubt about it. The question is just - which insects, and how? Since they're so advanced, maybe the Queens have decided some other method for deciding what their offspring is going to be? Other than food, I mean. The idea that the males might start out as grubs or something - hmmm~. I really think you've got something there. Both the Iratus bugs and Michael's bug-people grow in big slimy pods, right? So it makes sense that a race that developed from those bugs have a similar kind of - hatching period? And the females are very different from the male, so them developing in a different way when they're still very young... that too makes sense.

I'm really curious what Wraith command structure is like! The more we find out about it, the more complex Wraith society seems to be. We've already seen one hive that was commanded by a male (the one in Sateda) and now, if more hives are missing queens, then there must be quite a lot of hives with male leaders.

Yes, and I really want to know how that works! Who gets to pick male leaders, and how? Is it because of some kind of special relationship with the queen? Brothers and/or consorts, maybe? Because they seem so insect-like, it's hard to imagine it would be a question of personal accomplishments... at the same time, in human terms "Todd" was a pretty genius scientist, and he's also capable of leading a ship into battle, so - what's his story? Did that happen because of the position he was born to, or are there ambitious lower tier Wraith males who can work their way up?

There's a lot we will never, ever find out, but some of these things might actually be interesting plot points!




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[identity profile] astridv.livejournal.com 2008-01-06 01:14 am (UTC)(link)
Just watched; LOVED it. I'd been somewhat underwhelmed by This Mortal Coil, but this ep totally made up for it. I can't believe how much plot and action they managed to cram into one episode, and make it gel. I thought the whole thing was really well paced. And all the great character stuff! (My inner McKay/Carter shipper squeed at her defending him. :)

And now I can finally read LJ...

[identity profile] kristen999.livejournal.com 2008-01-06 01:17 am (UTC)(link)
It's just unfortunate that her co-workers also happen to be her close friends and are going to be hurt and angry that she didn't tell them.

There is the crux of it and sigh ..I know TBTB tried to really fit this in but still seems I dunno..odd. The secret boyfriend and all that...though Ronon knew and some have speculated that perhaps he knew him during "The Return Part 1" when they lived with the Athosians. I just wish TPTB would have slipped a few snippers in this so it didn't feel so jarring or one final scene between John and Teyla afterwards but there wasn't time.

I think we will get a Rodney and Teyla scene, I mean we must, right? As for taking her off duty, I still say thats a good call. They face danger of injury at every mission even in the US military women won't go into a combat zone if they are pregant but still retain some duties....though yes, I'm sure John doesn't understand this is a different culture and he can't apply his values to hers. I hope they expand on this a bit more....and I have hopes that they will.

Though you make a good point John sees his duties towards Teyla in a diff light then she does....
ext_2410: (DH is Awesome)

[identity profile] kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com 2008-01-06 02:14 am (UTC)(link)
I posted my episode commentary last night (http://kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com/301869.html), like always. Also posed some questions to Gero and Mallozzi, so we shall see if they answer them :) The episode got me pondering.

[identity profile] roga.livejournal.com 2008-01-06 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
Ever since they introduced the concept of queens, the Wraith have reminded me of the Buggers in Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game, who are a technologically advanced insect-like race. One of the reasons I love Atlantis's cooperation with this Wraith is that by the time human learned to communicate with the Buggers it was too late; I'm just happy Atlantis is trying, now, and I wonder how far they'll go. Can there ever be a peaceful resolution between humans and Wraith, or will it ultimately come down to us or them?

(I'm also very curious as to Wraith names. Have we ever heard them call one another by name? Did the current Wraith guy get a nickname from John, or is he nameless? Even FRAN got a name...)

Carter! I was so happy with her this episode, first defending Rodney and then getting her brain back again! Much yay. And the John and Teyla tension is exciting, because they're both right, and they're both hurt, and it's just wonderful conflict which I hope the show resolves onscreen. The only problem I had with that scene was how rushed it felt, like they were trying to get in as many character reactions in the three allotted minutes of the scene. In real life, it would have played out more slowly.

But all in all, very fun ep :-)

[identity profile] kristen999.livejournal.com 2008-01-06 02:51 am (UTC)(link)
Okay more other reactions, lol.

I think you're right, Larrin is a female John and I think he's smitten with her. The expression he gave when she basically told him he'd be better off on her ship in her chair...it was precious.

I'm guessing that we saw Repli!Weir. That this was the faction who wanted to ascend and cloned the one person who knew more about the subject then they did. Though, yes, they had a more evil feel including evil black leather...lol

I adored Rodney and the Wraith..don't ask me why. I think it was interesting that the Wraith knew when Rodney had realized something and I'll always love more Zelenka and Rodney moments.

I'm really, really liking Carter! She's been a nice strong figure, doesn't butt heads with John or Rodney often. But sticking up for her Team member earned many bonus points with me.

And can we have more Caldwell, please!
ext_2160: SGA John & Rodney (Sexy John&Rodney)

[identity profile] winter-elf.livejournal.com 2008-01-06 03:01 am (UTC)(link)
I liked Carter in this episode. I also liked Caldwell.

OMG- the fembot was a female John. Dark hair, slender, similar face structure, hazelish eyes. it was like - wow.

I was less happy about the obvious discomfort or not as easyness between John & Rodney for most of the episode. They seemed to come together at the end (thank god), but seemed to be on edge or something for most of the rest of the episode.

And Larrin, I wasn't as happy about her. Too forced. John seemed to be forcing the flirting, and I don't know why.

Loved the special effects and it was a pretty good episode over all.

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