Domesticated foxes

[sholio]

I'd read about this before, but never thought to look them up on Youtube. Basically, a Russian researcher deliberately bred silver foxes for tameness (so they would be easier to harvest for fur). What he discovered, unexpectedly, is that as the foxes grew more tame, they also started to exhibit a whole bunch of dog characteristics along with the tameness -- floppy ears, spotted coats, barking, wagging, and generally acting like dogs.

And the video of them ... my first reaction was OH GOD FREAKY, because they have fox bodies and fox tails, but they move just like dogs, with the wagging and bouncing. And my second reaction was SO CUTE! WANT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enrLSfxTqZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzTcmE-pMLU

(ETA: Apparently they do sell them as pets. Now I really want one!)

Comments

[leesa_perrie]

Fascinating videos - though I can't help feel sorry for them being kept in those small cages. Interesting to see how adrenaline affects tameness as well as genetic changes.

I can fully see why you want one - they are sooo cute - very energetic too by the looks of them! (Too energetic for me!)

Me, I'd like a tame wolf...but that's not very likely!! (I was always a bit jealous of that mountie chap in Due South. Hmmm, now I'm wondering how he and Rodney would get on... LOL!!)

[sholio]

I feel kind of sad for them, in those cages, too! They look like they would make wonderful pets -- but yes, very energetic, would probably need a lot of attention and room to run around.

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

And I was so sure they terminated that project.

[sholio]

I actually thought it had been, too. Either the Nova show that the Youtube clip comes from is kinda old, or they just scaled back funding but didn't actually stop the project.

When I first heard about it, I found it -- and still find it -- one of the most fascinating things I've ever heard, in its implications for the genetic plasticity of canines. If foxes can be essentially turned into dogs in only 40 years, then humans have probably domesticated dogs from a variety of wild canines dozens or hundreds of times. And that's just incredibly fascinating to me. I wonder if anyone's ever done a study of the dog genome to see if there's any support for different lineages.

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

First time I heard of those foxes was 20-25 years ago. And I kind of believed that Russians terminated the project because the fox's coats went bad, and it was not profitable for the farm to keep the beasts. But may be the scientists kept those foxes privately, or some Western Europeans repeated the experiment.

They sure did - I mean there are many papers on dogs origins, and I think the genome is fully sequenced by now.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=16219789

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

one more
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/12/2541

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

and the Dingo one - sorry, couldn't resit.:)
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15299143

[sholio]

Cool, thank you for this! Looking forward to reading these.

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

Can I ask you to do something if you have time? Could you please take this test http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
pretending you're Sheppard and tell me what you got? I need a cross-reference.
(I mean pretending you're Sheppard who's bored and takes the test to amuse himself, not Sheppard talking to Heightmeyer from your story) :)

[sholio]

Sure, looks interesting! Back shortly with results. :)

[sholio]

Okay, I got the following results:

Your Type is
ISFP
Introverted 44%
Sensing 62%
Feeling 12%
Perceiving 78%

ISFP descriptions here and here on the site. Seems to hit on some things, miss on others, at least as I see the character.

What results did you get?

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

ESTP (http://typelogic.com/estp.html)
I like descriptions on this site (all types are on the top of the page) better than on the test site.

[sholio]

You got extrovert for him? That's interesting, because I think he behaves like a classic introvert, albeit one who is good at faking in social settings, so I wasn't surprised to see that come up in "his" results.

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

For me he is definitely an extrovert (at least the way he is shown in the series) - a man who 'runs among the things', and who never looks at what is going on 'inside'. At least I never saw him asking himself 'am I a good man?'. I'm not talking about something complicated (it's not BSG), but something simple and straightforward... never. But may be I've missed some episode when he did some 'soul-searching'.

[sholio]

Hmm, that's interesting, because I had never thought of the introvert/extrovert dichotomy in quite that way. I don't know what the psychological definition of introvert is, though, and maybe my mental definition is a little off. Sheppard on the show seems to be a man who prefers his own company to that of other people -- he's occasionally seen off by himself reading a book, or wandering around not really interacting with people and/or fading into the background in a social situation -- which is, to me, the very definition of introversion. When I read the ESTP description that you linked to, the showmanish part of it definitely does not seem like part of his psychological makeup to me -- his behavior on the show does not seem like someone who wants to be the center of attention, but rather, someone who doesn't give a rat's ass what other people think or whether other people are around at all.

I know people who are very inwardly directed and know nothing about their own motivations at all (at least, nothing accurate -- an introvert can spend all the time in the world analyzing themselves, but if they're basing it on flawed assumptions -- e.g. "the world is out to get me" they're not going to obtain good conclusions).

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

:) I need to read more on this, because the last time I had a psychology course... well, it was loooong time ago.
I spoke from my personal perspective, for I am an introvert. I didn't mean that introvert would know everything about his motives and such, I meant the 'direction of a stare', if I may put it this way. "How those outside affairs affect my inner core?" - that's an introvert thing to ask. Extroverts on the other hand are *not interested* in their 'inside processes'. They don't give a rat's ass about them.

"Extraverted Sensors are at one with objects and experiences now, in the only living, pulsing moment that ever really exists. The Sensor is compelled to see, touch, taste, smell and feel all that moves, wafts, tingles, tinkles, scintillates, vibrates or resonates. "

"Introverted, and auxiliary to Sensing, the T(hinking) function maintains a low profile, keeps its opinions mainly to itself, and readily yields to allow Sensing to savor a special moment."

"Though only a minor character, Feeling plays an important role in a favorite pastime of ESTPs. This is not to say that ESTPs don't care deeply for others, yet Feeling is such a ready hand-puppet, expedient in disarming the "victim" and exposing the jugular. Sincere Feeling is tertiary and thus relatively simplistic in this type. As such, it can be the undoing of ESTPs at the hands of those they (perhaps unconsciously) come to trust."

"ESTPs reserve a certain "gut" sense of timing and luck."

- I think it's definitely him. But he is my least favorite character of all times, so I'm prejudiced. :D

[sholio]

I don't see the competitiveness/dominance/need-to-be-center-stage of the ESTP as being Sheppard traits at all, though. He's pretty clearly not a guy who cares about winning -- doesn't mind being bested by Teyla and Ronon at physical activity, or McKay at mental stuff -- and doesn't want to be in charge (First Strike). Most of his leisure activities that we've seen in the show (reading, surfing, sudoku, jogging) are solitary things, and he claimed to be content flying helicopters in Antarctica, about as solitary and non-competitive as you can get. I'll certainly concede that he's more focused on the phsyical world than what's going on his head, but he's not in any way a *social* extrovert.

[sholio]

For example, sociopaths (as I understand it) are the ultimate introverts -- people who don't even recognize others' existence in a meaningful sort of way, as opposed to extroverts who base their sense of self-worth on being recognized by others.

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

no, no, no... oh, goodness - where did you get that one? *laughs* You just mixed together a couple of personality disorders with something which is not a disease. I have read your review for 'Miller's crossing' (by far the best I found), and forcibly restrained myself from commenting (because usually I'm very annoying :), but Sheppard got me obsessed with psychopathy, so I can put together what I learned. :)

[sholio]

I stand corrected then, O Expert One.

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

:D

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

:) I tried my best to put a psychopathy (http://kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com/60486.html) in some order, but admittedly, I'm not an MD.

[sholio]

p.s. I tried changing a couple of answers that I'd waffled on, and ended up with this:

Your Type is
ISTP
Introverted 44%
Sensing 62%
Thinking 1%
Perceiving 78%

The descriptors for that one, here and here, sound a lot more like him.

(Oh, for pete's sake! Edited to fix HTML *again*.)

[kuna-yashmaa.livejournal.com]

:D that's better, for I thought *I'm* prejudiced.

[leenys.livejournal.com]

OMG!!!! MUST. . .HAVE. . .NOW!!!!!!!!!

Shortly after Daniel was born, he, hubby and I lived in an apartment, and the lady below us had a wolf. I'm talking the real deal here. He would let me pet him, but I had to be careful taking the baby past him, and people from other buildings had to be especially cautious if the wolf was outside. Gorgeous thing, but still with a streak of wildness. She was finally evicted because she refused to get rid of him and he posed a very real threat. Huge thing, too, larger than a husky. Absolutely beautiful.

[sholio]

Yikes! I'm not sure about someone keeping a wolf in an apartment building -- that seems like a terrible idea! From what I've heard, though, actual full-blooded wolves make decent pets as long as the owner is responsible, understands their limitations and doesn't have small children. It's only the wolf-dog hybrids that are unstable and dangerous; as long as one is aware of the predatory nature of the original wolf, they are supposed to be fairly responsive to living with humans.

[leenys.livejournal.com]

For all I know, this one could have been a mix. She insisted it was full-blooded, and I don't know enough to say it was or wasn't. It sure looked full-blooded. But she wasn't quite stable in her head, so those two were a scary combination indeed!

[sholio]

Yeah, and I guess there's the big problem with wolves and wolf-hybrids (as well as pit bulls, pet tigers and submachineguns) ... people who are fascinated enough with them to actually spend their money on them are very often kind of unstable in various ways ...

[chaps1870.livejournal.com]

Too cool.

[sholio]

Aren't they strange and freaky and neat? I would love to have one for a pet.

[gnine.livejournal.com]

Oh god! want one! Sooooo bad! They're adorable! I've always loved foxes, but cute, tame, tail-wagging ones?! Squeeee! Thanks for sharing!

[sholio]

I know! So cute! They look like they would make wonderful pets.

[naye]

That is just the coolest thing - and so cute! I adore foxes, and these are like - puppy-foxes! Awwwwww~. I want one too, now! To pet and cuddle and just observe, because how cool wouldn't it be to have genetics in action right there in your living room?