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Doctor Who - the geekery continues
Things have been so busy around here that I haven't really watched much more Doctor Who -- when I have time, my husband doesn't, and vice versa. But we've made it up to 2x06, so I figured I'd post about it again.
My squee got dampened a bit at the end of the first season, but I'm really enjoying it again. I think where I am right now on Doctor Who is that it's a show that I appreciate for the gestalt as much, or more, than the individual characters -- like with a science fiction novel, the story arcs, the sense of wonder and grandeur, and the way that ideas bounce off each other, are at least as important as following a given character from episode to episode.
Case in point, Mickey's arc, which I'm pretty sure is wrapped up with the last episodes we watched (the Cybermen two-parter). I really liked that ending for Mickey, given all the ways that I thought his part in the series was going to conclude. He's finally shown his stripes as a hero (I always knew he had it in him), won over the other rebel guy (whose name completely escapes me at the moment) and won Rose and the Doctor's respect, more or less. It's pretty clearly the end of Mickey's part in the show (aside from flashbacks, time travel or whatnot), but it's an ending that leaves him poised on the brink of more adventures, the one man who can clean up the world. Yes. I like powerful, bittersweet-yet-hopeful endings, and that one was.
And "School Reunion" -- that episode was just -- *squeak*! That's the one that really got me back into loving the series, because it actually addressed so many of the issues I'd had with the show, and did it so well, plus all the nods to the show's long history. The overt acknowledging of the Doctor's constant stream of Companions, and the way previous ones are never acknowledged, and the pyschological issues that this raises for both him and them .... it just explains so much about him, and in a not-too-blatantly-retconning kind of way. Because, it's fairly evident that the whole Companion thing must have started out on the show for fairly standard TV-show reasons (you can't really have just one main character; he's got to have someone to interact with) and the changing cast members, and not referring back to previous ones, is, again, pretty much standard operating procedure for TV. But it just makes such perfect sense that the Doctor would cope with loneliness by drawing people into his orbit, and cope with their limited lifespans by not allowing himself to think of them after they'd gone -- regardless of the consequences to them, or him.
(Plus! Anthony Head! Evil! *geek*)
And Rose getting knocked down a peg ... I really don't dislike Rose, at all, but I find her much easier to sympathize with when she's having to flounder and struggle a little bit. Her insecurity about her relationship with the Doctor, and her jealousy of Sarah Jane, made her much more sympathetic for me, and much easier to like.
My squee got dampened a bit at the end of the first season, but I'm really enjoying it again. I think where I am right now on Doctor Who is that it's a show that I appreciate for the gestalt as much, or more, than the individual characters -- like with a science fiction novel, the story arcs, the sense of wonder and grandeur, and the way that ideas bounce off each other, are at least as important as following a given character from episode to episode.
Case in point, Mickey's arc, which I'm pretty sure is wrapped up with the last episodes we watched (the Cybermen two-parter). I really liked that ending for Mickey, given all the ways that I thought his part in the series was going to conclude. He's finally shown his stripes as a hero (I always knew he had it in him), won over the other rebel guy (whose name completely escapes me at the moment) and won Rose and the Doctor's respect, more or less. It's pretty clearly the end of Mickey's part in the show (aside from flashbacks, time travel or whatnot), but it's an ending that leaves him poised on the brink of more adventures, the one man who can clean up the world. Yes. I like powerful, bittersweet-yet-hopeful endings, and that one was.
And "School Reunion" -- that episode was just -- *squeak*! That's the one that really got me back into loving the series, because it actually addressed so many of the issues I'd had with the show, and did it so well, plus all the nods to the show's long history. The overt acknowledging of the Doctor's constant stream of Companions, and the way previous ones are never acknowledged, and the pyschological issues that this raises for both him and them .... it just explains so much about him, and in a not-too-blatantly-retconning kind of way. Because, it's fairly evident that the whole Companion thing must have started out on the show for fairly standard TV-show reasons (you can't really have just one main character; he's got to have someone to interact with) and the changing cast members, and not referring back to previous ones, is, again, pretty much standard operating procedure for TV. But it just makes such perfect sense that the Doctor would cope with loneliness by drawing people into his orbit, and cope with their limited lifespans by not allowing himself to think of them after they'd gone -- regardless of the consequences to them, or him.
(Plus! Anthony Head! Evil! *geek*)
And Rose getting knocked down a peg ... I really don't dislike Rose, at all, but I find her much easier to sympathize with when she's having to flounder and struggle a little bit. Her insecurity about her relationship with the Doctor, and her jealousy of Sarah Jane, made her much more sympathetic for me, and much easier to like.
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(yes, School Reunion was excellent)
Also, yes on Rose and Mickey (also, I don't usually get shippy, but I was shipping Mickey and Jake like crazy - apparently they had a line that they cut that actually said that Jake and AU!Mickey were boyfriends for real)
Glad you're enjoying it!
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Ha, really? Neat! The idea of shipping them didn't occur to me at all -- but then, I almost never ship characters who aren't obviously a couple on the show. But it's cool that the show's TPTB actually wanted to do that! I kinda wish they had kept it in...
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I kinda wish they had left it in too!
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I too loved the scene in the street where he gave Rose the cold hard truth of it. His acting (as ever) rocked in that scene.. trying to be stiff anf cold about it but unable to quite hide the hurt underneath... the curse of the Time Lords indeed.... *huggles 10th Doctor*
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I love Eccleston and was terribly disappointed he only did one season, but I also love Tennant.
My favorite bit about "School Reunion" is when Sarah Jane and Rose start laughing about the Doctor ("and then he looks at you like you've just dribbled down your shirt. . .")--and then he comes in and they laugh at him, and he's irked and trying to pretend he's not! And he can't figure out what they're laughing about, but he sure won't ask!
Good times!
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I really love Mickey and actually, the treatment of Mickey by the other characters was one of the problems I had last season. I was happy to see him come into his own this time around, though.
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I've got to say that I find your "journeys" as you get involved with new series kinda fascinating. It would seem that we never start on the same page (like your early views on John Sheppard and Dean Winchester were very different from mine) - but somehow, as the series progresses, our views become similar until we end up virtually sharing a brain about most things. It's scary, but also rather fascinating.
To throw back to the last discussion, I hadn't waded through all the responses, so I didn't know that you had already voiced the Rose = Mary Sue theory before me. And there was I thinking I was being all controversial. *snort* - again with similar reasons to my own and similiar niggles about the lack of "show, don't tell" with the way her character's "virtues" were written.
And, yes, "School Reunion" is one of my favourite episodes of the whole series too - and again for many of the same reasons as yours. I must admit that I'd been apprehensive about it when I saw the promos because, being an Old School Whovian, I'd always adored the character of Sarah Jane. I really rather feared that her character was going to be sacrificed on the altar of "Rose is the Best Companion Eva - Coz We Say So!". But instead, they did tackle all the issues that you mentioned quite brilliantly and showed the "context" of how the Doctor latches onto his human companions.
I love the way "Mickey the idiot" became a genuine term of affection. I love the way that Sarah and Mickey really "took control" of their lives and their roles in the Doctor's universe. They made the decision not to be mere "hangers on". The character arcs for both were well nigh perfect. you actually see their characters grow. As you see Rose's mum, Jackie, grow as a character.
I'm still not convinced that Rose herself grew all that much as a character throughout her tenure with the Doctor (there's just more and more of us being told how wonderful and irreplaceable she is). But at least in "School Reunion" she was forced to have a good hard look at herself for a moment. It's not really a substitute for growing up, but it's as close as she ever gets.
And actually, maybe Rose doesn't ever grow up because other people keep propping her up so she doesn't have to. The Doctor, Jack, Mickey, her mum and others - all running to her aid or making concessions for her because "she's worth it". She never really had to act like a grown up and make any sacrifices for other people (other than the Doctor and I struggle to think even of times when she elected to sacrifce something even for him of her own free will). She was universally adored (or envied) everywhere she went - so, "School Reunion" was the closest she ever came to being knocked down a peg or two. And damn! It was good for her.
PS - for the record, I don't hate Rose either, but I've never been as impressed with her as most others seem to be. And the Rose Adoration still mytifies me a bit. And I can't wait until you see season 3, because IMHO, Martha Jones rocks!
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Now she evolves like Rosie never did!
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I've got to say that I find your "journeys" as you get involved with new series kinda fascinating.
Heh. It's certainly interesting to me, because prior to blogging about it, I never realized that my impressions of a show change so much as I watch it. But looking back on it, I think this has always been true of me. I'll make snap judgments in the beginning, and then as I get to know the characters and world a little better, things change. I like books/shows/movies that surprise me; my favorite characters often end up being ones that I didn't really like in the beginning.
I love the way "Mickey the idiot" became a genuine term of affection. I love the way that Sarah and Mickey really "took control" of their lives and their roles in the Doctor's universe. They made the decision not to be mere "hangers on". The character arcs for both were well nigh perfect. you actually see their characters grow. As you see Rose's mum, Jackie, grow as a character.
Yes! to all of this. I love watching characters grow and evolve, and Mickey in particular has been neat to watch, going from basically a background character and victim in the first episode, to a well-developed character in his own right, and a hero. (And, yeah, "Mickey the Idiot" becoming an affectionate nickname -- that made me grin.)
And actually, maybe Rose doesn't ever grow up because other people keep propping her up so she doesn't have to.
Yes, again! I think I might've mentioned this in the other thread -- I feel like everyone else is indulging her and enabling her to remain forever a child, rather than allowing her to reap the consequences of her actions.
I've heard lots of good things about Martha, so I'm looking forward to finally seeing her!
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I think a lot of the debate I was putting to you before was because I have a hard time separating the first two seasons in my mind - I watched them so quickly, and wasn't fanning on the show until 2nd, so the problems I might've had with 1st were covered before I really could get bothered by them! I rather love the show because it does raise issues, the chars are not perfect people; but it doesn't expect you to believe they are. I see it as presenting human beings (or Time Lords) with all our foibles and quirks and flaws, obsessions and ignorance and mistakes, and going, 'look, aren't we fantastic in spite of ourselves?'
I'd also recommend watching some of the Dr. Who Confidentials, because the writers and actors have a lot of insight into the chars. The Confidential for "Boomtown" has both Mickey's actor and the writer talking about how terrible Rose is to Mickey, how she is unfair to him; they don't justify it, and they don't expect the audience to be taking Rose's side there...(I love a show in which the creators analyze things as deeply at the fans! ^^)
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In Doctor Who, the creators are the fans! ♥ It's beautiful. And also talked about in some detail in the Confidentials, writers and actors all remembering Old Who, growing up with it and loving it and being influenced by it...
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Actually, the only episode so far this season that hasn't done much for me was the Scotland werewolf one -- I can suspend a lot of disbelief (in fact, for most of the shows I watch, you pretty much have to!) but the werewolf and then the moonlight laser -- a laser that was physically capable of throwing someone across the room, no less ... yeah ... kind of difficult to swallow.
"School Reunion" was awesome on pretty much every level -- entertaining and funny and exciting and insightful; sad and painful in all the right places; and it did a fantastic job of incorporating and reinterpreting the show's history. Pretty nearly a perfect episode, IMHO.
Obviously I don't mind you having different opinions on the characters than me! There's no reason why we have to see eye to eye on EVERYTHING. I did notice that a lot of things you mentioned in our debate have been brought up in this season. I'm quite looking forward to seeing where it goes...
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Though like I said before, I think 2nd series in general is the weakest of the New Who...that werewolf ep, oh the crack. Forget the laser, I got hung up on the Shaolin monks! Crouching Tiger, Hidden Scotsman???
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I had forgotten how hilarious the old Cybermen were! Even the new ones aren't that menacing ... considering the speed at which they move, it's more like "Walk for your lives!" than "Run for your lives!" Crackers and cheese, crackers and cheese ... *g*
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"School Reunion" is fantastic in so many ways, not least because - look at the Doctor's face light up when he sees Sarah Jane, it's... I've never seen Old Who; I didn't recognize her as a character, but that one moment where he first sees her, and then when he's waiting for her by the TARDIS - I didn't need more explanation after that. And then the issues they dealt with... oh, Doctor. And his Companions, and what his interruption of their lives do to them, and how he can't dwell on it. (Especially since he does have the means at his disposal to go back and pick someone up just where they left off. Then it would quite possibly destroy the fabric of space and time, but - the possibility is always there, and I can't imagine living with the temptation of that. I don't think he can, either, I think that's one of the many reasons he tries to close those past relationships off once his companions have gone.)
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