sholio | On a tangent...

On a tangent...

I hadn't thought about this 'till

with_apostrophe got me talking about Fantastic Four in her LJ. Most people who read my fic or my journal have probably noticed that I see a very strong "sibling" vibe between Sheppard and McKay. Is it possible that it's canon now?

Thinking about Sheppard's Fantastic Four comment and the team dynamics in the actual FF...

It's possible that Sheppard only stuck Rodney in the Human Torch role because it was the one left over when everyone else had been assigned. (And Rodney is SO totally their team's Mr. Fantastic anyway...) But he just slots Rodney so quickly into the Human Torch slot, when the powers, personality, etc. are so radically different, which makes me wonder why he thinks Rodney fits so easily into the Human Torch/Johnny Storm role on the team.

So, in the Fantastic Four, what's Johnny to Reed? His baby brother. Well, Sue's kid brother specifically, but still, Reed treats him that way. Everybody in the FF does -- he's the kid brother to be teased and protected.

I just couldn't help thinking of that in terms of how I see the Sheppard/McKay sibling dynamic and the fact that Sheppard didn't even really seem to think about it before sticking Rodney into that spot. And it's pretty obvious from the way he talks about the FF (notice he mentions the comics, not the movie) that he's fairly familiar with the characters and has possibly thought about this before.

I'm probably over-thinking this quite a lot...

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Well when Teyla calls him on how it doesn't work - She's not invisable, he agrees and ads that Rodney isn't the Human tourch either. (notice how he didn't say anything about Ronon not being whatever the fourth one was (sorry I forgot)). So I don't think he was making that strong of a comparison. I think he was going more for the fact that there are four of them and they're a great team and all of that, rather than thinking about the individual characters...

Or maybe I'm under-thinking it. ;O)

Well, I'd basically taken his comment back to her to mean that if you try for a perfect one-to-one correspondence between the characters on all points, the metaphor completely falls apart. It doesn't mean that they don't resemble the characters in certain ways, though.

True.

Yeah, John's not saying that he's stretchy, and that Rodney is a walking talking zippo, or that Ronon is a walking wall (or whatever it is that 'The Thing' is).

The next comparision will be the A-Team or something! John's just being John. He's having fun!

A-TEAM eh?

I just had a marvelous idea.

If it's a crack AU *double thumbs up*!

Hehhehehheheh!

I got distracted and made an icon instead.

It's still crackalicious!

Not only is it crackalicious - it's about The Hair! That can't be bad.

Hasn't it been canon for a while, the sibling thing, the whole family vibe in the team, not just John and Rodney, but all of them? I assumed it was??

You might be over-thinking it LOL Probably it was just a cool bit of dialogue that was stuck in there. It was Gero - I think? He's good for pop-culture references, but, it could be seen that way, no harm in it!

That's what I thought too. They really have felt like a crazy disfunctional family all along.

I see the family thing as more wishful thinking on my part than actual canon ... although there was that one scene with John and Teyla in "Sateda". But it's fun to think of them that way, so I do.

I think a lot of us do :) How could they not be after all they've been through anyways - it's common sense to believe they are. Yep, good ol' common sense triumphs once more! :)

Rodney also calls the expedition members 'a kind of family' in 'Letters From Pegasus' too...

Oh, y'know, I forgot about that. And that was way back in first season, too!

You forgot about that? *is astonished* And it was repeated in M&MM!!! Tut, tut! (LOL)

*laughs* Hey, I'm sick! Cut me some slack here! My brain is running about 1/10 normal speed.

(And I can't sleep...)

That WAS cutting you some slack! *stops channeling Rodney*

Awww - get better. And I was wondering what you were still doing up. I know that feeling.

Yeah, that's right - blame it on ME!!!!

Have some fun - over analyse!

I think it's clear that on some level John is a fanboy. I mean, the references to Star Trek, Star Wars, Spiderman, Batman, Fantastic Four, Back To The Future.... (what did I miss? Does 'The Princess Bride' count?)

I really can see John and Rodney sitting down and having a comic book 'discussion'. But as in 'Irresistible' Rodney would totally out-geek John.

But over-analyzing is FUN!

*laughs* I love what a giant fanboy John is ... and I can so totally see him and Rodney arguing the finer details of canon on something-or-other (and driving everyone around them insane with it).

Damn straight it's fun! It's part of the definition of being a fanboy or fangirl isn't it?!

Yes, then Radek would come in - tell them that they're both quite wrong - then J&R would unite against him, for about 30 secs before they continued, but with a three-way conversation. Yes, I know there's no canon references to Radek being fannish - but I can see it happening. Ronon would storm out quite soon, and Teyla would continue with her very serious questions - until she's had enough. I love the dead pan questions. *pets Teyla*

Actually, there is a minor reference to Radek being fannish: he won some Anime Dvds at the chess tournament in "Sunday", or maybe he wanted to stay to win them, I forget, but anyway there was a Radek-Anime connection. That can be a pretty powerful Fandom. Engeneer watching mecha!Anime, hee! excuse me while I go giggle in a quiet corner...

Oh THAT's what he said! I didn't catch it. I've been too busy making sympathetic noises at Carson to hear it! Glad my hunch was right. YAY

I'll just blink in confusion concerning the actual anime. I'm a Stargate/LOTR fangirl, with a touch of the 'Trek' (TOS, TNG, DS9) and a dose of 'The West Wing' (it's HIGHLY educational). Other than that - my geek credentials aren't too impressive.

I don't think he said wich specific anime it was... I'm just fanwanking that it's something to do with big honking robots and lots of cool machinery... (and you geek credentials are better than mine *bows head* (for instance I only know Enterprise, and only because Connor Trienneer was in it)) but of course it could have been something all girly and romantic with lots of really short skirts... nah, it was probably mecha.

Heh. My immediate thought on that scene was "But Rodney is *so* Mr Fantastic - the scientific genius - and John is more like The Human Torch - a bit wild and impulsive! :)

*Waves* I saw you at the Con. You were singing along to 'The Size of a Cow'. I took note when I saw your name badge, because I recognised your name from LJ.

I sound like such a stalker right now don't I?

Whoops! Yup, I definitely recall singing along to that vid (man, I used to love that song! :D). You shoulda said hi to me! ;)

I'm getting a bit worried now about how many people saw me/recognised me at the con.. it's kinda hard to miss me with bright red hair and I can be just a touch *ahem* loud at times... *lol*

Yeah I probably should have, but I'm not the most out-going person in the world and wanted to avoid any possible 'who are you, and why are you talking to me?' looks. I mean, it's one thing to do that on LJ - and another thing to do it in RL!

But you're right. The red hair does make you hard to miss.

Me - mid length brown hair and glasses... which describes about 70% of Con attendees... I blend well.

First off, nothing wrong with over thinking...I do it all the time. (Then again, maybe because I do it all the time maybe I am not the best comment on that. ;-).

Interesting thought. I am not a huge fan of the Fantastic Four. I know a bit about it, but not much. Like others I have to say that given what I do know made me think that Rodney is much more like Mr. Fantastic and Sheppard more like the Human Torch, but the idea that Torch is the kid brother of the team makes sense. Now Rodney is hardly the youngest of team - but he is one the others all try to protect.

I have to say that I seen the sibling vibe for a while, even though it only recently they have flat out said it. Things like that are tricky to make canon sometimes. Part of the "problem" is that Sheppard is not one to talk about his feelings. He doesn't admit them to himself, never mind to anyone else, so they have to be implied - through his actions or through is off hand comments. Saying that team is like the Fantastic Four (a team of four people that is often thought of as family as well) is a prefect example. His actions to patch things up between Rodney and Jeannie in McKay and Mrs. Miller (by making sure that Jeannie knew that Rodney had been thinking about how to mend their relationship long before she even thought of the proof that brought her to Atlantis) was another. The same could be said for the rest of them...so how do you get them to admit they care without having them drop out of character? It has to be implied and I think the show has done a good job of showing us how much the team cares for each other - so they don't really need to say it.

Yeah, the characters are so closed-off that we really do have to do a lot of guessing about the relationships. And honestly, there is really no way that they could come out and express things without going OOC -- except obliquely, as John does in "Sateda".

Okay, just watched it, and I'm sqeeing all the way!!! Oh, this was soooo cool. I love the way McKay sticks it to the Colonel chap and turns to Elizabeth for the go ahead with sinking the city. I love how she throws the Colonel's words back at him too. Though she was a bt petty later to him when he aplogised. Ah well.

I loved the city sinking...and I thought that was it...but no, it flies as well!! About time, though I'll miss Lantea. I do wish the writer's would tell us where the Athosians are. I mean, if they are back on the mainland, then presumably they have been evacuated, or will be picked up later, but if they're not...then where are they? I mean, we know Halling's still alive and that Rodney spoke to him in Tao, but I want to know WHERE they are!!

Oh well, maybe we'll find out sometime.

The FF reference was funny, though I don't know the characters so can't say anything about that side really. I was just laughing at the way that John really sucks at this expressing his sentiments at times! LOL!! Poor boy! Shoulda used a different metaphor!

I think you're right about the team being a family. John says it in Sateda, but I think it is hinted at in other eps as well, not least Tao. Perhaps this is why Carson was the closest thing to a best friend Rodney had, because John isn't a best friend but a brother? Maybe?!

I'm quite sure that the Athosians never moved back after Return, because they weren't mentioned in Echoes, either -- the energy wave would have killed them all if they were still on Lantea. But the writers really should have stuck in a reference to it at some point!

John is so hilariously terrible at expressing himself. I love how he comes across as Mr. Cool at first glance but the more you watch him, the more obviously he is just as much of a gigantic dork at social interaction as Rodney. He just does it in a way that's more mellow and less likely to cause offense in people around him (although obviously not 100%).

I'd wondered about the Athosians in Echoes - it could be that they hadn't got around to returning at that point, but I think you're right and they didn't come back. Wish the writers would give us a line about it somewhere.

And yeah, John is so a dork, a loveable one, but one nonetheless!! Just like Rodney. And, skipping down to your reply to beckiezra, yeah, no Rodney in the FF scene, so it fell into the cultural divide...and, boy, what a divide that is!

I meant to mention the opening scene that had me giggling - McKay is just so NOT a people person (as if we didn't already know that), his management style is, um, interesting (?!). Performance reviews? LOL!! Wonder if he could talk Radek into doing them? Hmm, probably not. Or at least, not for a very big favour, Radek's no push-over! Also wonder what he'd write for Radek.

As for John, standing there all 'I'm a good boy, I've done them already', only to be shot down by Elizabeth. Let's just say, if he gives reviews like that, then I wanna go work for him!!!

Poor Liz, why doesn't she just do them herself, it would be less hassle I'm sure!! And on that thought, what do you think she'd write for John and Rodney? Any ideas anyone?

Ah, you've made me feel better about the FF reference. I was sort of gawking at it while John was saying it because it was so not how I thought it should be. As soon as he mentioned FF I had them labeled in the most obvious way and it seemed very wrong that he called himself Mr. Fantastic (I mean DH has the shirt somewhere, right? And if Rodney was there the discussion wouldn't have gotten any further than that before he started arguing how wrong, wrong, very wrong John was), but now you've made it make sense, or at least opened my mind to thinking about it that way.

I think it says a lot about who John thinks he is. Who is Mr. Fantastic? A leader, smart, can do great things with tech... I'm sort of talking myself out of this because all those things seem Rodneyish except he's not leader of the team. For the shippers out there, Reed is married to Susan (at least when I read the comics back in the 90s) so maybe his denial of Teyla lovin' back in Sunday should be called into question. ;) Who's the Human Torch? He flies, he gets the girls, he goes off without thinking things all the way through... Not really McKayish, rather surface level John, BUT is that how John sees Rodney? Other than the girls thing, maybe, I mean he's going a mile a minute with ideas, he sometimes does things without considering the consequences, he needs someone to rein him in...

Hmm, I think I'm over thinking it now. At the very least I did like how quick Teyla was to point out she was not invisible, Sue had issues with that, too.

*laughs* Teyla's reaction was just wonderful, as was Ronon's amusement with the whole thing, and John gradually realizing that this conversation was not going in the right direction. Actually, something which just occurred to me about the way that scene played out is that it sort of highlights the absence of Rodney from that particular team exchange, because John is obviously used to throwing out Earth cultural references and having Rodney bat them back to him. Without Rodney around, he tossed it out there and it just dropped right into the cultural divide.

...Oh, my god. I never thought of it that way! I was just thinking that Rodney = brain = Reed, John = babe magnet with actually really terrible luck at love, sometimes = Johnny. The "what is Johnny to Reed" question never even crossed my mind.

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On a tangent...

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