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Crossposts: http://sholio.livejournal.com/407689.html

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... SLEEPY. But before I go to sleep, a few comments, links n' things.

whitecollar_rec! It's a newish White Collar recs community, and I have a bunch of stories I want to rec that I never seem to get around to here, so I'm going to start trying to post more recs over there ... about one a day if I can remember. =) Anyway, they take all kinds of recs (gen, het, slash, etc) and there's no need to sign up or be obligated to post a certain number of recs or anything.

Dreamwidth! They deserve kudos. :) I suppose I've been clear since day one that I'm not especially partisan about where I blog. Most of my flist is still on LJ, and for a long time my DW journal was just a backup; then I started crossposting some stuff; then I started crossposting a lot of stuff (I like the DW posting interface better than the LJ posting interface, in general). But I think the tipping point for me, from "eh, it's a business I deal with" to "hmm, I actually like giving these people money" came just recently when I had a technical issue after a recent code push, and posted my complaint/question on their new-features announcement post, and got an answer with a solution to my problem in LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES from the owner of the company.

It was, I guess, the latest in a long line of little snowball effects - they have always been very courteous, pleasant, and responsive to deal with, they have an increasing number of nice little interface features that LJ doesn't, they don't have ads, they've had almost no downtime, their much longer post & comment word limits are AWESOME ... basically, what DW promised to be two years ago (a nice, simple blog platform without the corporate-ness and unresponsiveness and ads and other things that make LJ a pain to deal with), they have turned out to be, and whereas with LJ I sigh and cave and renew my paid time every year because I can't live without my icons, on DW I like giving them money because I like supporting them as a business. From the perspective of a pleased customer who never did have a horse in this race (and whose opinion of them was, in fact, rather wary in the beginning), I can honestly say that my experience has been 100% positive and I recommend them highly. (I still blog on LJ and like it, much like I still buy books in Barnes & Noble and like it. But DW is more the equivalent of that nice little independently-owned bookstore that you really like going into, and feel happy when you buy something, whereas with LJ I'm happy here because my friends are here, as opposed to liking it as a business, if that makes any sense.)

AO3! A useful tip if you (like me) don't particularly like the new default site scheme: you can change it by going to http://archiveofourown.org/users/YOURUSERNAME/skins and clicking on "public skins". I am told that "Snow" is the one that most closely resembles the old default. I'm using "Snow Blue" right now, which I kinda like, though it is DIFFERENT and my brain does not deal well with change. *g*

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Oh, man, AO3 skins. I thought everything was peachy-keen at AO3, both org-wise and skins-wise, and then a few hours ago I learned that ... not so much. I know I saw claims that they would be doing an emergency push that included resetting the site default to something less grey-on-grey, along with something else urgent, "within the day" — and that was posted late on the 12th — so maybe the workarounds won't be necessary? (I'm holding out with the hope I won't have to resort to skins at all, because like several other posting users, I want to see what the average non-member reader first encounters. Fingers crossed!)

But DW remains ♥.

I don't even know! I've been very much in deliberate head-in-sand mode lately when it comes to fannish conflict; I know that conflict/controversy exists with regards to AO3/OTW, but not really much about the details. However, like you, I don't want to use a skin because I want to see what the average reader sees. Maybe I'll get used to the gray background (actually, it looks more blue to me) - I hadn't even noticed that the default DW background is also light gray, so obviously I've gotten used to that ... or maybe they'll change it, which I'd be quite happy with. Either way, I suspect I'll survive.

And DW is ♥! My choice of social media is mostly driven by who's on it, because, well, that's why I'm doing social media in the first place. *g* But DW has won me over (slowly and reluctantly, but surely) because they really have delivered what they promised, and they've been great to deal with - not just for me, but for pretty much everyone I know. It's gone from being my retreat in case LJ goes kablooey, to a place that I really enjoy hanging out because it's a cool hangout spot, and I like that!

I've been very much in deliberate head-in-sand mode lately when it comes to fannish conflict; I know that conflict/controversy exists with regards to AO3/OTW, but not really much about the details.
I seriously had no idea; just two days ago, I was relating the cool parts of OTW to a non-fandom friend. Today's unfunny-business post, followed just recently by

skaredykat's, certainly opened my eyes; and I went from recent supporter who was idly considering maaaaaaybe volunteering sometime to ... no, just no. Because I can't, with conflict. I'm glad to know what conflict is where — but that's because I need to know where to stay away from! blah.

But yes, the responsiveness alone at DW is fantastic. I haven't had as much community click here — though what little I see of A:tLA and asexuality, I see here — but it's just easier all around for me. (I moved all my RSS feeds over here, in fact.)

Yeah - well, I guess I'd be lying if I said I hadn't read any of the links surrounding the mess, but mostly I just hope, for the sake of everyone who's involved with it and does feel strongly about it, that they work past their differences and are able to keep things going and move forward. (And now I just read this, which makes me go *meep* and regret kvetching about the skins!)

But yes, the responsiveness alone at DW is fantastic. I haven't had as much community click here — though what little I see of A:tLA and asexuality, I see here — but it's just easier all around for me. (I moved all my RSS feeds over here, in fact.)

*nods* Yeah, the social landscape of DW is quite different, with regards to which fandoms are here and in what numbers -- something I don't find at all surprising, since of course the communities would shuffle and restructure as people move around, but it does mean that some of my fandoms are on DW (A:tLA, which you mentioned, has a nice DW presence, and a very friendly/welcoming group of fans here), whereas most of them are primarily based on LJ. Which I'm fine with; I wouldn't expect the communities to port over intact anyway ("communities" meaning groups of fans, not so much communities in the LJ sense) - shifting and shuffling is always going to be the way it goes, and I'll always go where my fan & friend communities are. (I even have a Facebook account to keep up with my friends/family on FB, and I LOATHE Facebook!) But DW as a company has such a nice feel to it; I'm happy to support them with my paid account!

Edited (html fail!) 2011-11-13 19:16 (UTC)

But DW is more the equivalent of that nice little independently-owned bookstore that you really like going into, and feel happy when you buy something, whereas with LJ I'm happy here because my friends are here, as opposed to liking it as a business, if that makes any sense.) (...) It's gone from being my retreat in case LJ goes kablooey, to a place that I really enjoy hanging out because it's a cool hangout spot, and I like that!
That! And I love the subscribe/access split sooo much.
(Tbh I am not too impressed with their support because when I reported a bug it took them ages to get back to me - twice - but maybe that was a fluke, and they're very good about reporting and apologizing for problems.)

As for AO3 skins *facepalm*
Politely said, it is very obvious why the Archive is still in beta.

Reading all the posts about the OTW & OTW Elections is fascinating. I'm a member since October because I love Fanlore, so I feel invested. And many things I sound discouraging, but at least they're out in the open now? I'm very glad that I'm "just" a Fanlore editor.

*nods* Being that it's sort of a small organization, I expect it probably matters a lot when and where everyone is at the time; I did drop a support ticket on a bug once and never heard back about it, but it was a relatively minor thing that wasn't impacting my user experience a whole lot.

So I hope it doesn't sound like I'm discounting your experiences; I've been very happy overall, and figured I should say something, especially since I was rather vocally "meh" about the whole Dreamwidth move in the beginning.

... but yes! Access/subscriptions! And that nifty little down-arrow to open up a post (I use it so much!). And the sensibly organized homepage with all the user options in places that MAKE SENSE! I like it. <3

Squee is always good! Oh yes, I love that arrow, too. And their various poll features, no annoying ads... ♥

Oh, yes. If I had to the cash to get a paid account I'd choose DW because they are so much more in touch with their userbase. I can't move over here completely because most of my flist journals and comms are still at LJ but I try to post here more often now. I think your bookstore analogy is very apt; Amazon is fast and cheap and has more stock, but that lovely little bookstore with the owner who knows what you like and puts things aside for you to see wins over in terms of customer service :D

I went to bookmark something at AO3 and wondered what the hell had happened, remembered about the skins [I don't use a skin either] and thought eh, I'll get used to it/figure out changing it later. I will probably refer to this post again for assistance :D

I think your bookstore analogy is very apt; Amazon is fast and cheap and has more stock, but that lovely little bookstore with the owner who knows what you like and puts things aside for you to see wins over in terms of customer service :D

Yep, that's just how it feels to me! I don't think there's anything wrong with shopping at Amazon - it has lots of stuff, and it's cheap, and I certainly don't want it to go away - but I go to Amazon for the books, whereas I go to the little neighborhood bookstore not just for the books but also because it's small and friendly and fun to visit and I like giving them my money. ♥

eh. I haven't had all that great with the help from DW. I mean I use it (shorter fl because not many on it), because I can check a shorter list instead of the LONG time for LJ, but the one time I tried to send in a report - I kind of got lost - in that I got one response that made NO SENSE (I'm pretty computer coding illerate), and had to get a friend to translate what in the world the gobbled gook they said actually MEANT, and then when I did that and sent it - no response for MONTHS. I mean they eventually fixed the problem so it stopped happening to me (kept getting errors when ever I tried to open a link or comment list or anything).

I'm sorry you had to deal with that! And I don't want to dismiss your unpleasant experience with my squee; I know that with any business, some people are going to have good experiences and others not. But on the other hand, if I went to a restaurant and got really great service, I'd recommend that restaurant to my friends, so ... same thing here. :D But I'm glad your problem got fixed eventually - that sounds like it would make it completely unusable, which is no good at all. :(

First of all: THANK YOU for recing

whitecollar_rec and recing over there! =)

Also: I have to admitt that I'm not really fond of AO3 and now with the layout change... o.O Talk about fixing things that don't need fixing (and I'm saying that as someone who didn't like the layout before). *sighs*

Oh, you're welcome! :) I think it's great and I really would like to start reccing more!

I like AO3 a lot myself, but the new default layout ... SIGH. Like you said, why "fix" it when it was working just fine before?

I've never been that impressed with the Ao3, but I'm still wondering how 'improving site accessibility for disabled users' translated to the gray on gray color scheme universally despised by the visually impaired without anybody catching it.

Unfortunately, the tip only works if you have an account. I think they're working to change the default back, though. And we can live without it for a few days.

Yeah, I know, which is actually one reason why I never had a skin before -- I wanted to see what everyone else saw when they read my stories!

I do in fact really like the AO3, but I hope they change to a more contrasty default (and based on the input they're getting from users, I expect that they probably will).

It's sad, because I don't like AO3 or Dreamwidth. I don't have actual specific interface reasons, but I just don't like them. I don't know why. Well I suspect that DW is partly because so many people have flocked to it that it seems kind of trendy, and I avoid that kind of thing (I only have an iPod because my sis bought it for me, and I don't even know where it is. :/ )

And maybe it's just because I have so many issues with my ancient, ancient computer, but my LJ experience hasn't been that awful.

I don't think anyone has to like them just because I like them! And I hope the above post comes across a lot more "squee!" than "You guys should all abandon LJ for DW *right now*!" I'm happy here on LJ and I'm not going anywhere anytime soon, but I do feel that my experience with DW has been positive enough that I had to say something, especially since I had had the same negative reaction as you to everyone jumping ship from LJ -- it felt like DW was the new trendy thing, and I also felt pressure from some (by no means all!) DW users to abandon LJ, so ... it was a pretty big change for me, actually, to go from being "meh" with a side of "no thanks" to thinking, "Hey, I'm happy enough with this service that I'd like to continue giving them money." Which is not to say that I think other people should be penalized for choosing differently -- it's just, that's how it's worked out for me.

Oh no, I didn't feel pressured at all (which, thank you for that), and I hope I wasn't raining on your parade of squee.

My response was more of a "Why am I so weird" kind of thing. I just bounced back into DW to see if I like it any better, and nope, I don't. I'm not sure if it's the way it displays on my monitor, but I have adjusted all the settings, and I just despise every color scheme and journal mesh on there. I don't know what it is that rubs me wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it. Same with AO3.

Neither site is particularly offensive for me. I just...I just don't like them, and I don't really have any good reasons. I'm just a special snowflake, I suppose. :D

Especially because my initial reaction to DW was, "Why is this such a big deal? It looks exactly like LJ!". And I guess ads don't bother me that much, so....I don't see the advantage of DW over LJ as much, I suppose. But it's definitely the colors on DW, which is kind of dumb reason to not like a website -- I don't hate it by any means, but I find I don't enjoy reading posts on it as much. Maybe it's the font too. I don't know. -is odd-

Sorry! I didn't mean to interrupt or ruin your squee!

Oh, no no, my squee is unharshed. :)

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with just not liking the general look of a site; that's a perfectly good reason not to use it! (I honestly don't like DW's default site scheme as much as LJ's, but I've ... gotten used to it, I guess.) I mean, nobody needs a reason, and if there was anything that pushed me away from DW in the beginning, it was feeling (perhaps unfairly) that I had to justify continuing to stay on and use LJ rather than switching to DW as so many of my flist was doing. Now that I've gotten used to both, I've been delighted with DW's customer service and general usability, but I still spend much of my time on LJ because so many of my fandoms and personal friends are here, and will continue to do so quite happily as long as they're here.

But my experience with DW has been positive enough that I felt I should say so - just like, if I had really good service at a restaurant, I'd recommend it!

Oh good. Sometimes my opinions can be taken the wrong way, because I do not always you know...soften the blow of my true feelings. :p

And I am kind of happy to hear that you also don't like the default scheme as much on DW. One thing I heard over and over was how pretty it was, and it seriously does nothing for me, so I thought that maybe I was missing something. :-D

And I do t hink that DW users have a tendency to push that site in a way that is not necessarily constructive. While LJ does have issues, they have those issues BECAUSE they are open to everyone, and because their service is so widely available.

It opens them up to a lot more attacks and technical issues, but I appreciate the work the staff does, especially with demanding customers who often make soul-crushing remarks that would make me curl up and cry if someone directed at me. So I guess you could say I eschew DW because of that aspect as well. I don't like being pushed, and I don't want to be a lemming.

I do have a DW account, because someone gave me a code and encouraged me politely to check it out, but I don't do a lot with it. Heee! :-D

So anyway, glad I didn't totally insult you. :D :D :D \o/

Can I just copy and past your comments? Most of you said is true for me too!

Nope, no insulting here. :)

And ... I'm so completely on the fence here, because on the one hand, I know exactly what you mean about feeling pressured in the early days by DW users who were confrontational or derogatory towards LJ users while trying to promote DW. But, at the same time, I feel like I need to defend my DW flist because as soon as that started to become a Thing -- the perception of DW users as being evangelical, pushy or hard to deal with -- everybody I knew drew back immediately and worked really hard on balancing their DW squee with not making LJ people feel unwelcome. This was really kind of them to do, and I really appreciated it, and in the long run, it went a long way towards making me feel more at home on DW.

I'm sure the people on your DW flist are lovely. ;-) I was speaking in more general terms, just based on what I have seen not just in my flist (all of whom are pretty respectful), but from other people I've run into. :-D

I meant no insult towards your flist.

BTW, your Alex fic is moving at a snail's pace, but it is moving. I'm trying to finish up another story, but this one is highly distracting. :D :D

I have such mixed feelings when it comes to rec sites these days. On the one hand, yay, new fic I haven't read! On the other hand, as a writer, recs of any kind have a way of messing with your head if you're not careful. I went through this stint with

stargategenrec in which if it wasn't rec'd then it wasn't good enough and it took me for ever to get over that mindset (I also had issues with what I felt was people rec'ing only what they felt was unique as opposed to just good. There were a few stories that I was surprised no one hurried off to rec -

kristen999's Red Sands, for example. But that was probably just a matter of my personal perspective).

That said, I'm not trying to be negative toward rec sites, I promise. I do like them, and I'm surprised there wasn't a rec community for WC sooner.

Yeah, there's a popularity-contest element to recs, certainly - but that's why recs sites benefit from having a lot of reccers! :D I co-ran

stargategenrec for years, and I would often feel guilty about reccing the same people over and over again, especially when they were my friends, but it was also the fic that I was reading and enjoying the most. The more reccers you have, the more wide-ranging their tastes are, the less clique-ish it feels - and the more likely it is that the not-often-rec'd people will get at least one or two of their stories in there.

I do agree that recs sites are a mixed blessing, though - there's no way to do them without some people being included and others being left out.

The more reccers you have, the more wide-ranging their tastes are, the less clique-ish it feels - and the more likely it is that the not-often-rec'd people will get at least one or two of their stories in there.

Very true. And one thing I do love about rec sites is, of course, the rec'ing and the joy that is sharing with others that totally awesome story you just stumbled across.

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