sholio: (Books)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2010-09-03 04:21 pm

Random timewasting

For those in my flist/circle who, like me, suffered through what felt like about 500 Wheel of Time books (okay, more like 7 or 8) waiting for something to happen -- or, really, those of us who grew up on Tolkein-ripoff fantasy in general ... this rant about Robert Jordan and Terry Goodkind is pretty awesome. And then I got to this description of Rand al'Thor, the protagonist of Wheel of Time, and I *died*.

"Rand was an ass out of which Robert Jordan could pull anything he needed, not a character."

So true. So very true. I'm not sure why that particular turn of phrase cracked me up so much, but omg, I'm still giggling.
trobadora: (Default)

[personal profile] trobadora 2010-09-04 12:36 am (UTC)(link)
Hee! [livejournal.com profile] limyaael's rants are always awesome.
ext_1981: (Shrine laugh)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
I haven't read anything of hirs before, that I can recall; I was just linked to this one from somewhere and totally cracked up. :D I'll have to check out the rest of the journal!
trobadora: (Default)

[personal profile] trobadora 2010-09-04 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
You can find the many, many awesome fantasy rants here. Prepare to lose a lot of time on those! :)
ext_1981: (John Rodney nerdy)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 12:47 am (UTC)(link)
OH DEAR GOD. *sees entire day slipping away* XD
trobadora: (Default)

[personal profile] trobadora 2010-09-04 06:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee! Do let us know how much time you lost. *g*

[identity profile] madripoor-rose.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 01:41 am (UTC)(link)
Wow. Somehow never read any of those books, and now I know not to.
ext_1981: (Default)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 06:40 am (UTC)(link)
Someday I want to read Terry Goodkind just to see if the books are as awful as I've always heard, because I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything good about them, but someone must be buying them ...

[identity profile] ticiathethief.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that would be my husband. *hangs head in shame*

He loves both series. I just don't get it at all... I couldn't read past the first book of Goodkinds' and I tried to stick with Robert Jordan. Apparently (or so says my husband) now that the WoT is being written by someone else, things are actually happening. But there's no way I'm going to go back to read up on the series now.

[identity profile] kriadydragon.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 02:23 am (UTC)(link)
I read an abridged audio version of Goodkind, thought about reading the books but they just looked so long :P Plus me and Tolkein-ripoffs do not good companions make. I despise them.

On only a slightly different note, I used to love a good rant. Still do, kind of, because for one you can learn from them and for another I usually agree with them. But I find myself a bit wary about them, because people can get rather "band-wagony" about them, scoffing at those who like the material being ranted about, and that doesn't sit well with me. I did like with this rant, though, that there were people who spoke up about liking the books and what they liked about them without getting rabidly fannish, and without anyone attacking them. It was quite refreshing :D
ext_1981: (Default)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 06:41 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah; I must admit that I find it very entertaining to read scathing reviews of books, movies and so forth, but not without a slight frisson of guilt, because what if the author stumbles across it? Of course, Jordan's dead, so that's not really a problem in his case ...

[identity profile] kriadydragon.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, they are fun :D And even educational in a way. And if it's something you yourself didn't enjoy (and felt it an affront to the art of writing) then, heck, yeah, you want to see it ripped to shreds.

But at times there's a certain arrogance involved that doesn't sit well with me, especially when people get into ripping the fans apart for enjoying the work being ranted about. That, IMO, is going too far. And, yeah, what if the author sees?

[identity profile] dreamingoctober.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 04:35 am (UTC)(link)
The Wheel of Time books may have been silly and never-ending, but they gave me my sisters and some of the best friends that I will ever have in this life. I'll always be grateful to Robert Jordan for writing (and to Brandon Sanderson for so deftly finishing after Jordan's death) those stories and providing the impetus for the founding of a community that will have its 10th anniversary next year and that is striving to do some good in this world.
ext_1981: (Default)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 06:39 am (UTC)(link)
d'oh. I certainly don't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with liking the books, and I'm so sorry if it came across that way (which, come to think of it, it probably did). Given some of my deeply-adored books on my shelves, I'm in no position to cast stones about anyone else's reading habits! (I did read and really enjoy the first few books in the series; I think the series and I just drifted apart, leading eventually to an acrimonious break-up. *g* But it was me at least as much as it was the books themselves.)

Anyway, I'm very sorry to have come across condescending or insulting in my post.

[identity profile] dreamingoctober.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 06:52 am (UTC)(link)
No, no - I didn't take offense to your post at all, and *I'm* sorry my comment came across that way! I was just providing another POV: that even if the books were full of cheese and angst (and they sooo were!), something beautiful came out of them for me. :) Not everyone had that same experience - just like any fandom! In fact, I admit that up until the latest book, I'd been kind of meh about the whole series but deeply in love with the community I found through it. And I loved Robert Jordan dearly - he was so good to his fans that I loved the series for him and Harriet (his wife) if nothing else. However, the latest book was just incredible and brought back for me some of my old excitement over the books.

TL;DR version: I wasn't offended, and I'm sorry I sounded like I was criticizing your post. :)
ext_1981: (Books)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 05:22 am (UTC)(link)
*relief* I'm glad I didn't come across rude or condescending! The thing is, there are so many books I love or have loved that are objectively quite awful (cheesy, flawed, just plain BAD) -- I realized when I read your comment that I really don't have the moral high ground to throw stones at anyone else's guilty pleasure reading! Anyway, I'm glad you weren't upset. :)

Maybe one of these days I'll read the last Wheel of Time book (or two) just to see what happens. :D I did really care about the characters once upon a time.

[identity profile] penfork.livejournal.com 2010-09-04 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
i really liked goodkind's books! well, i never got past 4, or maybe i did get through 4 but the first three i loved, when i read them years and years ago. i didn't mind richard being a mary sue because of all the bad stuff happening to him all the time, but then there was just so much bad stuff and it was depressing and i didn't want to go further. i liked 'em a lot, i thought they were nifty. the gore and violence never bothered me either. i'm glad all that stuff didn't bother me, although when i was younger not much did, i read everything, i was kindof astonishingly nonjudgmental about everything. i miss that actually, nowadays i find a lot turns me off books, which is depressing.
ext_1981: (Default)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 05:23 am (UTC)(link)
*laughs* One of the depressing things about growing older is getting so critical of books I loved wholeheartedly when I was younger! I'm afraid to try reading some of the books I used to love, because there have been so many that have been a huge disappointment to me as an adult.

[identity profile] penfork.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 03:59 pm (UTC)(link)
i know, right. :| i've had it happen with some tv shows, too. but then the rare book is just as good or even better, because things you didn't notice or realise the significance of before you now understand. it's a rarity, though. i'm fairly certain i'd still like goodkind's books. a few things bugged me even then, but in general it was fun and interesting.

[identity profile] kodiak-bear.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
Well I've read the WoT books and Goodkind's books...but to be fair, I haven't read the ending books in both series because they both grew that bad towards the end. WoT books -- the first book was really good. I even liked the next three (four?) but somewhere around 5-7 it started to become a bit 'wtf-uckery' LOL. Way too many characters, way too many POVs, way too slow...etc. Goodkind's -- okay, yes, cliche, smacks you in the face with the obvious moral messages, so on and so on but still enjoyable. The last few books however, not so good. Way too much preaching exposition over the same moral ideas and not near enough action and progression.

So, yeah. I read a lot. A LOT. But the one thing I did appreciate in their books was the focus on the characters. These two authors did not skip on this area, and that's probably what kept me in the series. I really couldn't stick with the Shannarra series because there was no depth at all in the first two I managed to get through hoping it'd get better. I don't know if the author ever improved, seeing how there's so many in the bookstore I have to think maybe and wonder if I should try some of his more recent stories.

Give me an author that takes the time to focus on the characters and I'll put up with a lot. :)
ext_1981: (Default)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 05:26 am (UTC)(link)
Heh, yeah ... I can't remember where I gave up on WoT (book 6? book 8? somewhere around there) but I started out really liking it, and really liking the characters. I wish he'd managed to rein himself in and do a reasonably sized series (and cast!) of just a few books and a handful of main characters -- it probably would have been really good. I love me some sprawling epic fantasy, but omg, I do have my limits!

And yeah, Shannara ... heh ... I did read one or two of them when I was a kid, but I don't remember anything about them, other than finding them dull and blah. I did like Terry Brooks' characters in the Wizard at Large books (another series I'm not touching with a 10-foot pole as an adult, though; I'd rather retain my happy memories intact, thanks!), but Shannara didn't even really have characters, just people-shaped placeholders to move the plot along!
ext_1981: (Sheppard moody)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 07:49 am (UTC)(link)
Oh hey! And here's a *really* random question, but I've been poking around on Google and I am not even really sure how to query for this. (It's for an SGA fic, of course.) Do you know, in the Air Force, what's a slightly tongue-in-cheek way to say that someone just got their promotion and is still kind of new at it? I typed "her oak leaf was still shiny" (she's a Major) but ... I don't know if that works at all, or sounds like something someone would say, or think (it's John, in this case, thinking it).
sheron: RAF bi-plane doodle (Johns) (Default)

[personal profile] sheron 2010-09-07 01:10 am (UTC)(link)
I stopped somewhere in the middle of the Wheel of Time books. Could not handle it any longer LOL
Edited 2010-09-07 01:11 (UTC)