sholio | Just out of curiosity ...

In fanfic, I'll read 1st- or 2nd-person POV if the summary grabs me hard enough or if the writing is outstanding at the start, but for some reason I really do prefer 3rd-person for fanfic. I really don't know why, since in original fiction I really don't have a preference. It's odd.

Yeah, see, that's true of me too -- I was actually a little surprised when I was uploading some of my old fic to AO3 to discover that I used to occasionally write fanfic in 1st, because it seems really awkward to me now. And yet, in original novels, I seem to default to 1st; I have trouble getting myself to write in 3rd, even though I think I have a slight preference for reading in 3rd.

It's confusing.

I think at least part of it is that some fandoms have a very strong preference for 3rd -- SGA fandom almost never uses 1st person, but I've been in fandoms that weren't that way.

For me I think there's a - it's odd, but it feels like arrogance to write in first person, like that person just has the character so very down pat.

It's a bizarre mindset, I totally admit that, but it is way more likely to chuck me out of a fanfic if the characterisation is even slightly not meshing with mine.

No, that makes sense! (Although I agree with Zillah, below, that OCs and 1st-person canons don't strike me the same way, which is interesting ...)

I wonder if part of the problem is that it's a lot more challenging to write different, identifiable "voices" in first person -- that is, most people who write first person tend to write a very similar first person no matter which character they're writing. This is fine for original fiction -- I'm thinking here of mystery writers, who have multiple series about hard-boiled PI's who all sound pretty similar, and readers who pick up a book of the Lance Manpole series are expecting a similar reading experience to the Dick Magnum series, or, you know, whatever. But in fanfic, we already have a pretty clear idea of what John or Rodney or Teyla sounds like, and having their narrative voices sound just like the author's inner monologue voice throws you right out of a story.

(I'm not saying it's impossible to distinguish first-person voice. I've read authors who could do it really well. But I don't think you get that in fanfic much, unless they're emulating an established first-person voice, like with Dresden Files or Sherlock Holmes fic...)

I saw someone once suggest that we (generic "we") don't care for 1st-person fanfic because we know the author doesn't "own" the character the way they own an original character, so it tends to throw us out of the story. And while that doesn't make sense to me intellectually -- because it implies that in order to be "in" the story we have to be aware that the story is about a character that's "owned" by its creator, which would imply that we're outside the story, conscious of it being a fiction -- I have to say, the 1st-person POV fanfic that never gives me trouble is if it's 1st-person outsider-POV from the POV of an original character. So...apparently it does make sense on a gut level. Or something does....

Actually ... you've got an interesting point, because you're right. I've read 1st-person original-character POVs that I really enjoyed, and I've also never had a problem with 1st-person fanfic in fandoms where the source canon is in 1st person (like Dresden Files).

I wonder how much of it is ownership and how much of it is just being used to seeing the characters from the outside, so to speak -- so a 1st-person OC is still the same thing (watching the characters from the outside). I'm not sure why it should make a difference, and yet, it does seem to.

Exception for the second question: First person if it's fic for a book written in first person and the POV is the same as in the book.

(The reason I dislike first person in fanfic is that, unlike with original characters, I already have my own ideas about how a person's inner thoughts work. And unless the author happens to agree with me completely ...)

Yeah, this! You said it better. XD

I think a lot of people feel that way, consciously or subconsciously - there's very often something that's just off about first person fic, and the "off" thing is that the reader actually thinks they know better than the author about how Character X thinks. *g*

The reason I dislike first person in fanfic is that, unlike with original characters, I already have my own ideas about how a person's inner thoughts work. And unless the author happens to agree with me completely ...

*nodsnods* Initially I feel like I feel the same way, but then when I think about it, I have to wonder. When I'm reading a very tight 3rd-person POV, in which I'm effectively getting the character's inner thoughts and emotions just as much as if it were in 1st person, I'm no more bothered by them being different from my characterization than if the POV was a looser 3rd-person.

And yet there's something about reading 1st-person POV from the POV of a canon character that tends to just itch at me, and make it hard to want to read it. There's not that much substantive difference between, "When I opened my eyes at o'dark-thirty, the first thing I was aware of was that the dark shape at the foot of my bed was not the bathrobe I'd left there the night before. Without thinking, I reached for the pistol on the nightstand, and only came fully awake when my hand closed on the empty space where it used to be," and "When Roque opened his eyes at o'dark-thirty, the first thing he was aware of was that the dark shape at the foot of his bed was not the bathrobe he'd left there the night before. Without thinking, he reached for the pistol on the nightstand, and only came fully awake when his hand closed on the empty space where it used to be," and yet the first one is a lot more likely to make me back-button it out of there than the second one is.

It's the same for me. But I think third person is still at one remove - it doesn't pretend to be the character themselves narrating the story; you're just following them along as things happen.

There's not that much substantive difference

No, but you can't tell the same story using the same words in first and third person POV. Using third person descriptions makes a first person narrator much harder to relate to, even if the reader is actively seeking out that POV, so writing it like in your example automatically doesn't work.

Er. If that makes any sense.

Heh, I have a couple of original projects that I've switched from first to third, or third to first, and it's really astonishing how much of it has to be rewritten -- the turns of phrase that work in 1st simply do not work in 3rd, and vice versa.

Yeah, it's two completely different ways of storytelling. I find present and past tense to be similar, if more easily interchangeable.

Speaking of original projects, has it been ages since you posted anything or did I simply miss it?

No, I haven't posted anything. Mostly because I haven't *finished* anything. I'm going through a really weird sort of writer's block right now ... it's not exactly writer's block so much as a severe loss of confidence, I think. I just don't trust myself to see a project through to the end, so I keep starting things and not finishing them, and it keeps getting worse.

Yes, and there's also things you can do with one POV that you can't with the other - for instance, in a 1st person POV it's pretty easy to hide the gender of the narrator, while it's almost impossible with a 3rd person POV (at least in English; it's easy enough in Japanese...)

*nods* Yes, I agree totally about 1st-person canons. Also, for that matter, 1st-person OCs, which

zillah975 mentioned above. A couple of my favorite SGA fics are 1st-person OCs narrating an outside POV of the characters. But once you take it inside the characters' heads ... my brain has a lot of trouble coping with that.

I think another exception is letters and diaries, especially if they're interspersed with regular narration. I can think of fics that have used that to great effect (and I've written some myself). But just straight-up 1st-person narration ... I think it's incredibly hard to pull off for a TV canon.

Yes,

zillah975 definitely has a point with OCs. And it fits with my theory - we have no expectations about those OCs' thoughts that could be disappointed.

With letters and such, I think it works better because it's generally only small sections. For one, it's easier to maintain a distinctive voice. And in addition, you have a clear situation they're speaking from, instead of the nebulous narrative situation of many first person stories (where I generally have trouble imagining any situation in which that character might tell that story in such detail and with such honesty about their innermost thoughts and feelings, which doesn't help the suspension of disbelief.)

In original fic, I prefer third person. I've chosen several POVs on the poll, but to be honest that depends on the story and my mood - ask me another day and I'd pick third person single POV!!

For fanfic, I really don't mind if it's third person several POVs or third person single POV. I still think third person just edges out first person as a perference, but only just. And if it's Rodney, then third or first really doesn't bother me!! But then, if it's Rodney, so long as he's in character, I'd take pretty much anything!!! *g*

Oh, that's really interesting -- so you're more okay with 1st in fanfic than in original fic! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that the answers in general seem to run more the other way.

I wonder if it helps to be focused on a specific character, and very familiar with, and comfortable with, his voice?

You know, thinking about it, I read a lot of biographies that are first person, but when it comes to totally fictional books I tend to find first person off-putting. Not always, but generally speaking - no idea why!

In fanfic, I think you're right about the familiarity of the characters making it more comfortable to read. I certainly prefer Rodney when it's first person, as he's the one I'm most familiar with, though other characters are usually fine too. OC fics in first person are less attractive to me - so, yes, I think it's to do with familiarity! *g*

Of course, I'm reading a novel atm that is first person and not having any problem with it - hadn't even realised it was first person until I thought about it just now!!! - so, sometimes it isn't jarring in original fic!

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think it's to do with genre more than anything. Something that reads like an autobiography will usually work for me in first person, but if it's sci-fi, fantasy or historical fiction, then not so much!

Edited 2010-08-02 21:06 (UTC)

And by 'rotating' point of view, I mean at scene breaks, not randomly in the middle of a scene.

Oh right, yes, that goes without saying. *g* I suppose that "... and written well" can be considered a corollary to any of the above (I may have a strong preference for 3rd person in fanfic, but given the choice between well-written first or clumsily written third, I'll definitely take the former every time ...).

*laughs* Yes, this.

And I'd love to see you do a similar poll on tenses. It seems like fanfic is rife with present tense, which generally makes me gnash my teeth and stop reading. Is that just me?

You know, fanfic has actually won me over to present tense. I never used to read it (and experimental short fiction of *any* sort was an incredibly hard sell for me), but after getting used to reading well-written fics in present tense, I now find myself slipping in and out of it in my short fiction -- not in the same story, I mean (at least, god, I hope not) but in general, as far as what feels right for the story. I think I'm now about as likely to do one as the other, especially if I'm going for a short, introspective character piece.

But that's new for me. It's only the last 2-3 years, and I'm pretty sure it's only because I've read so much fic that played with POV. I still don't think I'd read a long story written in present tense -- at least, it would have to be pretty damn good to be worth it. I vaguely remember encountering one or two of them, and finding it quite weird. And in original fiction, novels written in present just feel kind of pretentious to me ...

hah -- radio buttons sux. I went for my general preference: third person rotating pov. But I will read and enjoy first person. I've even written first person. I recall writing Teal'c in first person which was a lot of fun.

*laughs* Radio buttons are what make it interesting! I wanted to make you people work for it. *g*

Yeah, I didn't want to imply that just because you've got a preference one way or another, you wouldn't read or write in other voices, because most of us do ...

I really dislike first person POV both in fan- and profic. This made it rather hard to get into Holmes fandom, but there you go.

The only exception is Jim Butcher. He really has a handle on his character in the Dresden Files through the first person POV, but his Codex Alera doesn't work for me at all because he keeps slipping and messing up the third person voices.

I'm generally a difficult reader to please, anyway, but if an author writes in third person single POV at least they have a head start.

Re: Holmes fandom - ha. Yeah. I guess that would be a problem.

I couldn't get into Codex Alera for entirely different reasons; it just wasn't very good (at least I didn't think so).

My preference for 3rd over 1st (in original fiction, anyway) really isn't that strong. I'll happily read and enjoy both. But there's something about 3rd that works a little better for me -- though I've noticed that I can get a lot of the same things from rotating 1st (like multiple books in a series being from different 1st-person viewpoints, for example), because stepping out of the character's head and seeing things from a different angle is one of the things that makes 1st feel rather limiting to me.

I'll add that I particularly love fanfic that experiments with POV in interesting ways. I love this in original fiction, too, but people seem to be a little bit more daring in fanfic when it comes to experimenting with form, whereas in original fiction, editors and publishers tend to squash some of that down in the revisions.

Oh, I like that about fanfic, too! Actually, like I was saying in one of the comment answers above, fanfic has definitely made me a more adventuresome reader, with more interest in experimentation. In the past, I was never really into experimental fiction in original fic. But reading fanfic and seeing all the different ways that people play with it has made me a lot more interested in original literary experiments, as well.

I HATE first person POV, in general-- it works for me only VERY occasionally.

I think it's interesting how different this is for me between original fic and fanfic. I'm a whole lot more likely to enjoy a 1st-person POV in original fic than fanfic, except under certain conditions.

Interesting points about first person in fanfic. I'm not all that particular when it comes to reading certain POVs. Writing, yes - I prefer third person - but reading, it's all good as long as the POV works. But thinking about it now I've come to realize that there are not many fanfics written in first person POV, and the few that I've read - very few - did work, but only because I read them in the early days of the fandom when the characters weren't as established for me as they are. Now that the characters are established, I'm a lot more picky.

So, really, for me, it's not so much an issue of POV but characterization. First, second or third person, if how the author sees the character doesn't fit with how I see the character, then I hit that back button pretty quick. I know it sounds a bit arrogant but there are some characterization tropes I can no longer stand. Kirk!Sheppard, for example. Or idiot!Sheppard.

But some excellent points were made about first person, because it is dangerous waters to sail when it comes to fanfic canon characters. You not only have canon characterization to contend with, but personal preferences as well - your own and your readers' preferences. And I think first person POV has a way of making it feel like the author is setting the character's personality in stone, and if it's a personality someone else doesn't agree with, then it's going to tick them off enough to quit reading. At least that's my own personal impression of first person.

Everything said could also explain why I can never bring myself to write first person in fanfic. I've thought about it, but can never bring myself to do it.

I have no preferred POV for fanfic or original fic. It does seem like overall most fandoms have a preference for third, though. The only ones I've been in that had more than a handful of first-person stories were Vampire Chronicles and Holmes, both of which are first-person canon, so it makes sense.

I don't mind 1st person POVs, as long as it fits; I'm guilty of writing a couple myself. Sometimes only Rodney can tell a story. LOL But I do believe if you write 1st person, you better have that character down because, as a writer, you will get picked apart. It's not necessary, but some feel very strongly on character studies or vignettes. To me, if you write 1st person, you have to have quirks, nuances, and language down. However, people's opinions vary. I really only write for me, and it's encouraging when I get feedback.

Third person fics allow for subplots and a lot more movement and content.

I do like "3rd, rotating pov" a lot, as long as it's not between many characters, but only a few.

I prefer 3rd person POV. I've read 1st person POV in original fiction, and it can work, but I will rarely read a 1st person POV in fanfic.

For original work, I think whatever works with the story. In fanfic, I enjoy rotaintg third person POV for longer work, but if it's a character driven piece, I think a single PB throughout the story give its a tighter feel and more insight into motives and emotion.

I said I have no preference in either, but after thinking some more, that might not be entirely true. I think I'm a little more apt to be critical of fanfic written in first person—but just a little. It never stops me from reading it. (I think a story where the narration is off will have dialogue that's off, too. A mild case of either or both won't prevent me finishing; a bad case of either can! I still tend to persevere once I've really started, however, which I think I need to cure: some things aren't worth finishing. That's true in published fiction, too.)

I wrote an SG-1 story in first-person ("Charades", if anyone's curious; Sam narrates) partly to challenge myself as a writer, because while I read either, I very much prefer to write third person. It was only after I proudly posted the story, reasonably happy with the results, that I found out at least one of my friends makes a point of not reading first person fic, especially not when it's Sam! I don't know how many readers that might have cost me. I might not have tried first person in that one if I'd known.

Then again, maybe I should just write what interests me and not worry too much about readership. That's what I do in academia! :-)

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Original fic, whatever works. Fanfic, whatever works, but with a nod toward any 3rd-person. I feel a bit two-faced about that, but first seems harder to do well. OTOH, crappy treatments occur in every writing style. If the story grabs me, I'll read any treatment.
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First, Hello! It's been a long time! I've been slacking sooooo much. I go through anti-computer periods. Kinda sucks because I lose track of people I love, but it helps my brain refresh, for some reason.

Second, I pretty much agree with everyone else. (Well, I haven't read all the comments, but those I did read seem to be similar in feeling so....) I'm good with 1st or 3rd or whatever floats the author's boat in orginal fic, but in fanfic, first person drives me up the frikkin wall, unless it's an OC. And its for the same reasons as everyone else has already brilliantly elaborated above.

Third, my biggest bitch right now is trying to convert something from 3rd person omniscient, which I've grown to dislike (but everything I wrote for the first seven years of fanfic writing is in that style), to third person limited/rotating between several characters. It's unbelievably hard. I keep giving up on the "novel" because the POV is killing me. I just want to burn it and start again, but it seems such a waste to lose everything I've done. Alas.

I agree with what most people have said above that in fanfic 1st person narrative from a pre-existing character seems arrogant, as if the author is asserting that they know the character better than everyone else. I am aware that in the majority of cases this would not be what the author is thinking, however, it's hard for me not to have that attitude. I myself was stung when responding to a 1st person SGA story. I commented that they had a (non canonical) factual inaccuracy in the story. The response I got was also in the 1st person, and dismissed my point by saying that "My *insert character name* wouldn't know about *factual inaccuracy*. He isn't concerned about that area" (which is obvious from canon, but I still maintain he would know enough not to have a glaring factual inaccuracy in his speech). This rubbed me up the wrong way, and had coloured my reactions since.

However there are exceptions:
1. OC 1st person (for the reasons others have mentioned)
2. When the fandom is narrated in 1st person (e.g. Scrubs)

I find 1st person more agreeable in original fic, although I prefer it in a short story than in a entire novel. I think the style suits a more anecdotal narrative as opposed to an epic one. It also turns up more frequntly in detective novels than other genres, and I am not a fan of detective novels.

Second person - I hate. I don't like being told that "I" am doing X and Y, and feeling Z about it. The only place 2nd person has in non-fiction is "Choose your own Adventure" books, where you DO get make decisions.

I chose close third, because that's what I gravitate towards automatically, but I feel the need to also mention that some of the really good books/fics I've read are ones that DO break from this. First person can be done badly too often, but when it is done well, it is breathtaking and I adore it. I just tend to not seek it out because I tend to assume it'll be done badly...

Huh. It's interesting that responders don't care (as long as it fits the story) in original fic, but they want 3rd person in fanfic. I wonder why that is.

I hate 1st person especially if you get prolonged internal monologue, YES, I'm talking to you Robin McKinley! I read half of Sunshine before tossing it in because I couldn't stand the whiny internal thoughts! :P I'd prefer not to hear a characters thoughts, original or fanfic. Light weight I know but that's just me :D

Just out of curiosity ...

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