sholio | Hello, LJ! I've missed you!

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Hello, LJ! I've missed you!

Long weekend and only three more weeks of classes before Christmas! I can't believe that school is kicking my ass this hard. I've been in the working world, for pete's sake! I've been a department head! And yet I'm paddling hard to keep my head above water. Though it doesn't help that I'm also working on a large freelance project at the same time.

Last week, I had

derry667 visiting, and that was very awesome. We swam outdoors at -30F (in a hot springs), went to ~~the~~ North Pole (... it's a town), and marathoned our favorite SGA eps from any and all seasons. She posted some pictures here.

Derry also brought the series to date of SGU -- or, as my husband and I have begun calling it, Bastards in Space. We watched the first episode with Derry and then mainlined the rest of it after she was gone. It's so hilariously awful that we can't seem to stop. You know how this was supposed to be their big character-focused series? Yeah. Imagine a show with all the plot holes, dreadful science and skeevy politics of the other Stargates at their worst, only with characters that you really just want to toss out an airlock. And yet it's so terribly addictive, the way that badfic is addictive -- you know how sometimes you'll find yourself on chapter 19 of some goddawful fic and you just have to keep reading to see how much worse it can get? It's sort of like that. At this point I'm siding with the clever, evil, Macchiavellian bastard because at least he's more interesting than the dumb whiny bastards, and cheerfully rooting for a high body count. ("Dammit, s/he survived again!")

What else? I finished my

sga_santa story, and it's even beta'd; now I just need to get it polished up and submit it. I haven't started my Yuletide story yet, but I have some ideas. I also want to try to get my SGA fic site updated this weekend; I haven't put anything new on there in over a year. In fact, perhaps after I'm done typing this, I'll go work on that ...

ETA: Oh, and the new challenge at

sga_flashfic is a Gift Challenge, and you know what this fandom could really use right now? Warm, fuzzy, holiday team-exchanging-gifts stories. You know you want to. :)

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And yet it's so terribly addictive, the way that badfic is addictive
Indeed. I keep thinking enough is enough, but still watch the darn thing.

My husband and I have been consistently horrified by every single episode of SGU, and not, I think, in the way the writers would like us to be horrified. It even kind of makes us sick to our stomachs at times (the bodyswitching, omfg - you cannot make me believe that the SGC and JACK O'NEILL didn't lay down some PROTOCOLS for those stones). And yet... we can't. look. away.

My husband said something that I thought made pretty good sense - he said, "This might have been a great show, but they're filming all the wrong moments. Every single shot is the wrong moment. I don't want to see what they're showing."

you cannot make me believe that the SGC and JACK O'NEILL didn't lay down some PROTOCOLS for those stones

Yes! This. I mean, it should be common sense that you are more careful with a body that is not yours than with your own, but apparently not. Not just the creepy sex, but also with the getting intoxicated and such. I keep waiting for one of them to kill their host because they skipped the briefing on their body's allergies, and decided to have some peanuts without thinking...

Ha! I know! It's so bad, and then we finish an episode and look around for the next one ... it's like a disease. *g*

OK, you said allergies, and now I see Rodney freaking out all over the place about the stones and the bodyswitching and lemons, ahahah!

Speaking of... I wonder if SGU will try to "boost ratings" by bringing in some guest stars from SGA and SG-1. Probably not from SGA, considering that Joe Flanigan said in an interview that he hadn't heard anything from the writers/directors/producers of Stargate - and that it was kind of weird not to hear from them. And I just can't imagine Jack or Carter or Teal'c on the so-called "Destiny". :|

The bodyswitching! Oh god! With the total lack of logic or scruples or intelligence or ... anything! Like I said to my husband a couple of episodes ago, "Even O'Neill's an asshole in this reality!" It really does feel like we've jumped into the Mirrorverse of the SG universe -- a la Star Trek, the one where everyone's evil (not to mention, in this case, the universe where everyone's DUMB, because none of the things that they're doing -- either on an individual level or the SGC as an organization -- makes any kind of sense at all).

It used to really bother me, at first, that there are so many more useful ways that they could be using the stones if they're going to use them at all -- such as, for example, switching a steady rotation of EXPERTS onto the ship: physicists to fix the ship, linguists and computer programmers to study its database, doctors to help TJ, ecologists and xenobotanists to help them solve their food and water problems. Every scientist in the SGC would be jumping at the chance! Get Carter or McKay on the damn ship and your problems will be solved! Instead, they're using the stones so that civilians and accidental tourists on the ship can get intergalactic booty calls, with minimal or completely nonexistent safety or secrecy protocols. WHAT. The stupidity and lack of ethics is just so mind-boggling on all levels that I've given up trying to make sense out of it and just decided to pretend that it's a badfic AU of the actual SG-verse.

That's exactly what I was thinking when Chloe was hammering drinks. What about allergies or medical conditions? What if one of the hosts has an STD ... or picks up one from someone that the host intelligence decides to have sex with? What if someone gets pregnant? And I am frankly boggled (or I would be, at least, if the show made enough passing stabs at realism that I could even bother to get worked up about it) that neither of the sexual partners we've seen so far -- Young and Camille's wives -- seem to be remotely creeped out by the fact that they're kissing (and, in the case of Young's wife for sure and maybe Camille's as well, sleeping with) a DIFFERENT PERSON. You know, if my husband showed up in SOMEONE ELSE'S BODY -- looking different, sounding different, tasting different -- I'd be weirded out as hell, and I cannot imagine doing ANYTHING sexual, or even wanting to! It's not just that the host intelligence has no scruples at all, but what the hell is wrong with their partner?

Yeah, it's really bizarre. Especially as the other person can come back suddenly too due to the power fluctuations or whatever that was. I mean I can understand some curiosity upon changing bodies. Like okay, if I changed sex for example (though they seem to keep that consistent in the switches), I might be tempted to masturbate in that body to see what it's like, even if that is sort of borderline. But in any case they should not be so blithe about any of this. I think that they made the actors switch too really does this a disservice.

At this point I'm siding with the clever, evil, Macchiavellian bastard because at least he's more interesting than the dumb whiny bastards

Pre-cisely! This may simply be what you get when you cast Robert Carlyle.

I've not seen all the episodes yet, but the one with the time loops wasn't that bad, even if the explanation for them was totally out of left-field as far as I know.

It might be more worth watching if it were funny. Eli is sometimes funny, but often his jokes are just poor. Ah well, back to Sanctuary, Psych, and Eureka. They generally hit the humour mark.

I think that they made the actors switch too really does this a disservice.

Yeah, I hate that. It made more sense in earlier eps on the other Stargate shows, where we were either very firmly in the switched character's POV with a bunch of strangers around them, or weren't supposed to know what was going on. But in SGU, when it's a regular feature, I find it jarring and frustrating; it kinda pushes me out of the scene, and I think it definitely contributes to the casual skeeviness. If we saw the character as everyone else sees them, then it would be harder for either the viewers or the writers to ignore the moral problems with what they're doing. Seeing them as the switched character not only feels like "dumbing it down" so that even the densest viewer will be able to follow the plot, but it makes it easier to buy into the characters' delusions ...

I can definitely see the urge to experiment. It might have been really interesting to see a scene where one of the characters was exploring his or her switched body -- I think it would be difficult to avoid the temptation to at least look at yourself in the mirror, watch yourself move, check out your new birthmarks and whatnot. Hell, Quantum Leap did better with maintaining the "reality" of the body-switch thing 20 years ago! But the writers' complete willingness to bypass those interesting little realism things (like a character trying to deal with suddenly being taller or shorter) and going straight for SEX -- it's like ethical fail and writing fail all wrapped up in one big faily package!

This may simply be what you get when you cast Robert Carlyle.

LOL. This is probably true. (Although ... I know it's terribly American of me, but was I the only one getting Star Trek flashbacks when he was telling Young -- in his lovely Scottish accent -- that the engines just don't have the power? And then they recycled that clip for the intro montage! I can't help cracking up every time!)

In any case, Carlyle is immensely fun to watch, and far more entertaining than most of the other characters on the show.

Eli is sometimes funny, but often his jokes are just poor.

Not to mention that I feel like we've taken a giant step backwards with the lone nerd character cracking bad jokes so that the others can give him funny looks and then ignore him. I miss SGA, where nerds were liked and valued ...

HA! That right there about McKay and Carter is what I was saying from Day 1 of this train wreck. If the scientists that I remember from the REAL SGC ever jumped over to that ship, rotate 'em out, three or six at a time, whatever, that ship would be in optimal running condition in no time. Get Daniel Jackson to translate the database, get Rodney in there to sync up everything to the ancient tech, and Sam in there to just fix every damn thing, and wow, they'd be set. See, Stargate sold us on their scientists from the very beginning. Stargate scientists are BRILLIANT. So... where are they in SGU-land??? Instead, we get creepy conjugal visits, so on, so forth.

switching a steady rotation of EXPERTS onto the ship

Don't forget, in an episode yet to come, they're going to switch in a brilliant but disabled woman to fix the ship's FTL drive! Using Camille's body! So that the episode will totally not be about fixing the ship - it will be about OMGSEX! Because disabled people can't have sex, and that's the first thing that any disciplined, scientifically trained, educated disabled woman would want to do if she magically got to steal someone else's body for a while! Have sex! Of course! (I want access to the SGU writer's room. Just for a little while. I wouldn't hurt them... much...)

This has to be AU because all the little people wandering around my television screen when SGU is on are really, really stupid. Even Rush, who is obnoxiously a defeatist, always telling everyone what he can't do. This is not Rodney's "I can't do this oh wait yes I totally can" in-the-face-of-danger wibble - it's like Rush is either saying, "I can't because I'm not smart enough" or "I can't because I'm a lazy-ass rat-bastard who really just wants to watch everyone on this ship dance like puppets for me and then die horribly." I keep hoping for the second thing - maybe this will turn out to be a "Harper's Island" version of SG? Oh, we could only be so lucky...

One more word (or ten) on the science... I never minded when the Stargate science was bad, because Amanda Tapping, Michael Shanks, Teryl Rothery and David Hewlett could really sell it, you know? There is no selling on the bad science in SGU. It sticks out like a sore thumb, like the writers want us to point and laugh at their lack of research skills. :(

I was hoping you'd like SGU (unlike the rest of my flist), since you're not, natively, a slasher, but I'm not surprised you don't.

I'm loving it. It hits a lot of my kinks hard. I've always been fascinated by the dynamics of groups trapped together, and first went to sea (spent six months on scientific research vessels between 1989 and 1993) to see whether RL looked at all like fiction. And it didn't, until SGU. I love watching Chloe trying to build a social network that will work for her, using materials at hand. I love how useless Lt. Hapless is. Eli is a much more recognizable form of mathy guy than Rodney. Rush got me to change my default icon. I could go on, but you get the picture.

I'm mostly responding here in case anyone on your flist reads this and feels similarly - I'm friending madly within SGU right now. The fandom is sweet, but very, very young, and I'm feeling lonely (heck, I've written 10% of the SGU stories on FF.net!)

Hi! And good luck with the end of the semester; it always feel like it is impossible to get everything done and survive but it always happens.

I can't say I was getting Star Trek flash-backs, but I will be from now on! :D

In SGA it helped that the "cool" lead was also a geek.

Yeah, we're back to "geeks are pariahs", which seemed to be something that many TV shows were going away from - even some US teen/high school shows had geeks shown in a positive light.

One more thing, while I remember - did they ever explain why there are two jets of steam going off when the Stargate deactivates, because it's really strange. Maybe the Ancients were going through a Steam punk stage? Actually, that would explain a lot.....

Glad I'm not watching SGU, then. I have a terrible habit of reading bad!fic to the point that I want to see how the fic ends, while also wanting to jump through the computer and strangle the author :P I don't need that kind of aggravation from my TV ;) Plus it'll just make me miss my team and watch SGA.

Aw, the Santa village. I remember visiting that :D It's one of my more clearer memories of Alaska during our move. That and the giant Paul Bunyen and Babe (I still have my stuffed Babe, among other Alaska-related stuffed animals.)

the bodyswitching, omfg - you cannot make me believe that the SGC and JACK O'NEILL didn't lay down some PROTOCOLS for those stones
Yes! There are actually things about SGU I like, but this is driving me insane!

There's science on SGU? I went from complaining about bad science to, last night, complaining that there was actually no science. Maybe I should just be grateful for no science at this point.

Sorry for my lack of enthusiasm. I do have a couple of flisters who are enjoying it (

lunabee34,

sgatazmy ... I know I've seen a few other positive reaction posts, but those are the ones that are coming to mind). It'll be interesting to see how the fandom goes -- I expect this one will probably lean pretty heavily in a het direction (demographically young fandoms often seem to, in my experience) and I don't see much in the way of major slash couples materializing yet, though it'll be intriguing to find out if they do.

I do hope that you're able to get some nibbles of interest here.

I've always been fascinated by the dynamics of groups trapped together, and first went to sea (spent six months on scientific research vessels between 1989 and 1993) to see whether RL looked at all like fiction. And it didn't, until SGU.

I like groups-under-stress dynamics, too. The big problem I'm having with SGU, I guess, is that for me, it's realistic in all the wrong ways and none of the right ones. I already know that the majority of humanity are selfish, unethical, and incompetent in a crisis; I know that being thrown into close quarters with strangers is more likely to breed mortal enemies than lifelong friends. I enjoy the fantasy of heroism and bonding under pressure in the knowledge that it's largely a fantasy -- still, it's one of my favorites. But I'll forgo the fantasy if the rest of the show (book, movie) is sharp enough to be convincing: complex and believable characters, solid plotting, worldbuilding I can believe in. "Lost" had me for a couple of seasons on the strength of its cast of characters -- most of them were incompetent from the get-go, and some of them turned into dangerous bullies or organized factions around themselves, but they were interesting, and believable, and even the borderline stereotypes played against type at times. I watched for three seasons before the characters' inability to form bonds with each other and predictable backstabbing got to be too much for me.

SGU, though -- clearly YMMV on this, but I don't see much in the characters beyond broad stereotypes, and the lack of plot logic is too much for me to handwave. I love the idea of a paramedic thrown off the deep end and forced to serve as sole doctor for an entire group of refugees, but the fact that they could swap an actual MD into her body at any time, or send her back to Earth to consult with one, and yet don't, blows the plausibility of the situation for me. Some of the stereotypes are outright offensive, like Greer, who makes sense as a character -- I've totally known soldiers like him -- but becomes stomach-turning when he's not only the only black character on the show, but frequently contrasted against level-headed (white) Scott. The handful of characters who had me at the beginning are losing me one by one through their lack of ethics -- like Young, who I really liked and found sympathetic right up to the point where he used another man's body to have sex with his wife (which Telford clearly did not consent to, judging from his shocked reaction). And Young's jealousy of Telford, when he himself not only had an affair but is still in close contact with the woman he had the affair with, cemented my lack of sympathy for him.

The similar sci-fi that I grew up on (Asimov, Clark, Niven, etc) had plenty of tales of flawed characters trapped on leaky spaceships, some of them with no more than the sketchiest attempt at brushing in character traits (Asimov in particular was not a characterization guy at all), but the situation was the thing -- and the situations were solid, hard SF. Gimme a solidly researched and scientifically plausible tale of 80 people trapped on a leaky spaceship and I will be so there, even if the characters can only be distinguished by their surnames, even if they're all ethnic stereotypes of one sort or another. Instead, this show is making me eyeroll at the SF until my eyeballs are ready to drop out.

... um, yeah. Sorry about the screed. I'm glad you're enjoying the show, and I actually am enjoying it (and plan to keep watching), but not at all, I think, for the reasons that its makers intended.

Edited 2009-11-27 22:23 (UTC)

In SGA it helped that the "cool" lead was also a geek.

I know, and I really can't express how much that thrilled me. It was awesome to see a character who was into so many of the things that I and my friends are into, who wasn't a geek stereotype -- someone who was seen onscreen reading comics or playing video games, and also went out and kicked alien ass. That was really one of my favorite things ever.

SGA overall was remarkably geek-friendly (and SG1 too). There were a lot of scientists around, who saved the day and kicked back in nerdy ways when they weren't on duty. From Zelenka playing chess for anime, to Bill Lee's WoW scores (which, yeah, was played for laughs, but it was also quite evident at the same time that Lee was one of the smartest guys at the SGC, probably second only to Carter as far as someone they relied on for sciency day-saving), to SG1 generally having two scientists on the team at any given time ... there were lots of nerdy people, and they had clout and power.

And now, with SGU, we're right back to the lone geek being the brunt of the jokes for the cool kids around him. Which is a giant step backwards compared to the way that the Stargate shows have always shown smart and nerdy people.

Edited to add: I think the jets of steam are because it keeps almost failing whenever they dial -- because it's old, or still in beta, or both. Though the idea of the Ancients having had a steampunk stage is hilarious.

Edited 2009-11-27 22:31 (UTC)

Hi! *waves* I can't wait 'til the semester's over -- but at the same time, I'm having a marvelous time cramming knowledge into my brains again!

It's not making me miss SGA (much) because it's so completely unlike it. I used to occasionally have that problem with SG1 -- I'd watch an episode and want to see the SGA version, or think wistfully, "Why can't they do more of [xyz] on SGA?" SGU is totally not doing that to me, because thus far, there's very little that I would have wanted to see on SGA at all. (The only thing I wish they'd been better about is the variety of planets; so far, we haven't seen a single world that looks like BC! Which is cracking me up a little bit, to be honest.)

I had forgotten you were here once. Did you guys actually live here or just pass through?

Don't forget, in an episode yet to come, they're going to switch in a brilliant but disabled woman to fix the ship's FTL drive! Using Camille's body! So that the episode will totally not be about fixing the ship - it will be about OMGSEX!

*snort* Yeah. I remember the writers saying that we needed to see it in context, and in a way, I'm starting to see that -- well, not in the way that they meant, of course, but on this show, EVERYONE is all about sex all the time (even Rush, who seems to be motivated by a ~~fridged~~ dead wife or girlfriend or something). Of COURSE that's the first thing a visiting scientist is going to want tod o! And I feel considerably less bad for Camille, now, having her body used for sex, when she's already done it to someone else's body.

And it only takes them, what, most of a YEAR to think of sending an expert out there? Whaddya bet they do it once and then never again? Hubby and I have been joking (semi-seriously) that the SGC doesn't really want them back; they finally got rid of all the troublemakers and incompetents. After all, with all the resources of the SGC, all they can muster up as a rescue force is ... Telford, sitting at a computer all day in case someone decides to swap in. Either the SGC is in major financial trouble due to the economy (which I just realized would make a hilarious fanfic), or retrieving the people on the Destiny ranks somewhere below "resupply the research station on PX3-492 with paper clips" on their list of priorities.

"I can't because I'm a lazy-ass rat-bastard who really just wants to watch everyone on this ship dance like puppets for me and then die horribly."

*dies*

And that's why I like Rush more than anyone else on the ship at this point. He's totally up front about it! He's not even pretending to be a nice guy; everyone on the ship can see that he'll sell them out at the drop of a hat to get what he wants. His gleeful Macchiavellian machinations are way more fun to watch than Chloe sobbing or Young pining or Scott doing his "plank of wood" impression.

I've never seen Lost, so can't compare it to SGU. In general, I do like my characters to have moral compasses, but I'm also big on flaws. Like I said, it's hitting my little-k-kinks; but I don't think my kinks are very common ones for SGA and SG-1 fans.

RE: Scott vs. Greer... I actually think Greer wins in those comparisons, such as in Earth. I do think Greer is the most inconsistently-written character.

My least favorite part of the show is the Young/Emily/Telford dynamic. Nothing about how it's playing out makes any sense - why are Young and Emily married in the first place, why did he have an affair, and I could go on and on.

This, and most of the rest of my issues with SGU (ethical issues, who gets swapped in though this is less of an issue for me than for other people because I really don't like the reinventing-science-in-44-minutes aspect of SG-1 or SGA), could be removed if they dumped the blasted stones. I am a bit happy that there seems to be a downside to their repeated use, or at least a consequence; maybe they'll get used less.

The similar sci-fi that I grew up on (Asimov, Clark, Niven, etc) had plenty of tales of flawed characters trapped on leaky spaceships, some of them with no more than the sketchiest attempt at brushing in character traits

Those were the books that sent me to sea (long story - at the time, I'd never even had a geology class, and only decided to become a marine geophysicist after my first cruise). After, they were unreadable.

But a few weeks ago I swore off running around being defensive about SGU and here I am doing it! Thanks for the fellow-fan refs - I already have shared a squee or two with Lunabee, will check out sgatazmy.

- - - - -

Good luck with finishing classes! You're halfway to being completely done, right?

- Helen

I agree with everything you say about SGU! I don't know if you ever visit the GateWorld Forum, but over there it's classed as 'soap opera' by many (including me) or TMTNED (too much talking, not enough doing) Or indeed, slightly lewder, SG-Poo or SG Puny-verse... but that's probably just me.

Like you, I can't stop watching it. It's a compulsion I know I should give up, like writing Rodney whump!fic, but for some reason I just can't!

It may be because I watch it on the way into work (train commute) on Wednesdays after downloading off iTunes (only way in the UK for me), so it's either that, sleep or stare at the person opposite me for 40 min!

I finished my SGA Santa fic too, I'll probably leave it until the last minute to send it over... it's embarrassingly long, and I've also spent more time working on it than I have done for any other fic of the same length :o

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Hello, LJ! I've missed you!

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